hobbes221

I forgot to add that awhile back I saw designs to turn older F-16s into UCAVs as without the all the gear needed for a pilot and without a pilot at all the birds would be able to pull a bit more out of the flight envelope, nothing ever came of it (at least not yet) but the idea is still out there. And you are right about the Ghost backlash but I did say black so like top secret and stuff but now I would like the date that the new Ghost reach their IOC (initial operational capability) just to see how fast they made their come back. Man the Ghost fighters are like Rocky, they just won't stay down (now I need a Ghost montage, because... well you know )

Please keep in mind that I'm not hear to say 'you're wrong' or anything like that I'm just trying to toss out ideas. And on that point hears one for that, what if the designer were looking at the possible use of the airframe as a UCAV? I know that NOTHING has been said along those lines (at least that I know of) but if you look at it from their point of view Super Nova was canned for a UCAV who was to say that it would not happen later down the road so the guys cover both bases and have something that could compete against a new ghost fighter, and hey look its a VF too. As we can now see by 2059 the Ghost program has made it to the front lines, maybe it was still active on some level even right after the events of M+ just very black. So when the order for VF-22s come in they up the rating just in case they need to fill a UCAV role and bill it as 'needed for Spec Ops role'. Once again just ideas as to why something happened the way it did, I try to keep an open outlook on things and from as many view points as I can. That means that I may not even agree with some of the things that I say, I'm just getting them out there for another opinion -edit- It would not shock me in the least if SK trolls around here and retcons things just to drive us up the walls!

Oh man the tech thread lives! I'm willing to believe that when the Super Nova project came out it could have been a free for all in the design, as in 'How many Gs can we make the airframe take before it fails and before it make the design too heavy'. Remember that the people who write the requirements or designing may never use the item that they are working on and may not have a realistic outlook on how the item will be used by those who will use it in the field. So if's the case then I can see the 60/45 g limit being higher than a pilot can use. Did Guld pull off something crazy and beyond what most could do? Yes. Was that within the G limits of the airframe? IMHO, Yes. Was that within the G limits of the pilot and/or G suit? IMHO, No. I feel that as it stands right now the -19/22 can pull more Gs than their pilots can. And with the new systems of the -25 I feel that the -25 is at least the equal of the -19/22. Line for line equal? No, but close enough that it would come down to what the pilots had for breakfast to find the winner. (given that the pilots are at the same level.) Once again it comes down to not having all the fact needed but all in all great ideas from all.

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?show...7033&st=360 starts about halfway down

I do get what you're saying anime52k8, having wing tanks would be hard but if it was me I would want them even if that meant only being able to have them feed in fighter mode. I think that in that case they (the wing tanks) could at least be used to top off the mains while in fighter mode, they would also be useful to feed the engines for the first part of the flight as in just getting to the fight that way when you got there your main tanks would be full or as close to full as possible. I guess I'm thinking of wing tanks as internal drop tanks just without the drop feature . Most of this thinking is along the lines of space ops where you would want as much propellent as you could get. Anyways just my line of thinking on this.

I think what he is trying to say is 'What happens in gerwalk mode?'. We had this going awhile ago and David Hingtgen had some good points, I'm still working out some of what was said back then as my understanding and what he was saying don't jive. I'm at odds as I think we both are right on most things that were talked about. The engines of the VFs are one of my favorite topics so I'm always glad when it comes around again. However I think that we really need the fuel/propellent to get a good grip on things and given the location of the wings I don't think that it would be too hard to have propellent tanks there, even if you would have to have a set of quick connect fittings, one for fighter/gerwalk modes and another for battroid mode. And I said it before and I'll say it again, sorry if I missed the point.

So the YF-19/21 program was a UNAF thing? I understand that we don't have the clearest info on this, but now that you showed us that UNAF thing Macross Plus makes a little sense now as every time I see a -21 I always think that the land gear looks far too weak for a carrier aircraft. Also would give a good reason for the -19F/S birds coming out behind the -19A with such a redesign.

It does seem odd but the Rafale has a single all-electric throttle for both engines and a single start switch, so it is done in today's word as well. I would think that there would be a small set of controls near by the throttle to control each engine. And while it seems odd, even if you had two throttle controls as in something like an F-14, F-15 or F-4 you would still need something else if you wanted a control for each engine as many VFs have another engine or engines for when they are in geralk and battroid modes, as in the VF-1's 'backpack'. And we haven't even gotten into how they control the extra engines from the FAST packs, so I think that we have to have a single main thrust control lever and let the computers work out the rest much like today's Fly-By-Wire and Full Authority Digital Engine Control systems.

I said something along that line on the last page... no listens to me ...

Yes it's the same setup but done with different controls, on the ground the closest think I can think of would be the tiller ladder trucks use by fire fighters. they have a guy in the back driving the rear wheels this helps them to get those big trucks around because in turns as a tail would normally swing out (you have seem how the big tractor-trailer rig have to take wide turns?) the guy in back keeps in under control so you have two parts of the same truck doing different things in order to work. It's called cross controlling, flying cross controlled in aircraft could be one wing slightly low and compensating with opposite rudder, to a fully fledged cross controlled turn where the aircraft is steeply banked in a descending turn with full opposite rudder applied. Something like what I'm trying to say was showed in the first 'All That VF' where Alto's -25 did that climbing flat spin move. If that was done with just the TVC then he could have used the wing mounted control surfaces to keep the nose down, and some like that (without the spin, but maybe with a little turning) could be useful when trying to bring your guns around on target or in the case of having someone on your tail ether at the same level or below you descending without lowering your nose might allow you to give the rear firing lasers a clear shot and at the same time you would be moving in way that they might not be thinking about. and hey if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

I will say that I liked the scene in episode 2 of Frontier that show how you can control the precise movement of the feet in gerwalk with the pedals. If the legs of the EX-gear had a little movement in them as well then the legs would respond in the same manner, much like the system from Full Metal Panic as myself and others have said before. And on a sidenote IIRC the RAH-66 Comanche prototypes did away with the anti-torque pedals and added a left and right twisting movement to the cyclic stick so maybe something like that could be done with the VF's controls and there by leaving the foot pedals open to control just the thrust vectoring. While it would seem odd to have two different sets of controls (stick and pedals) that both control the pitch and yaw, it should allow for things like being able to climb and descend with the nose still on the horizon.

You've heard of HOTAS in aircraft controls - Hands On Throttle And Stick? Well now we have Hands On Tush And Stuff

Valkyrie Driver I've been trying to work out the whole foot pedal thing after I saw Zero as well and the way that I came up with that I liked myself was to have a switch or button on ether the stick or throttle (preferably operated by the little finger, don't know why but that feels right) that when used would change the way that the controls respond. It seems odd to have something like this but I feel that it would be needed for a craft such as the VF that operates in both air and space. We have seen how VFs 'fly' in space in the same manner as an aircraft would in an atmosphere and we have also seem them move along the same lines as the Vipers from BSG, as in flipping and darting around like a humming bird on Jolt cola. If anyone has thoughts on this I'm all ears. I too wish to see a VF air wing with a range of different types (I have for some time been taking VFs from all of Macross and making my own air wing just for kicks.) And as to the head lasers, I brought that up a while ago and we had a good talk on that back in Frontier Tech II I think, we even started a whole thread on the tech of lasers in the Macross world if you missed it. I myself love the VF-1 with the head and guns on the belly, now I want to see a VF-1 with the wing root cannons from the -25 so it can have up to SEVEN forward guns in fighter mode! -edit- Oh yeah, Valkyrie Driver welcome to MW if it hasn't been said, it looks like we're going to have some good tech discussions with you (and I'm always up for that)

For the gun pods of the VF-1 and VF-25 given that they both seem to open at the chamber area of the cannons it might also help to reduce the chances of jamming due to the ejection port being shorter and maybe wider. As the pods would only be opened in ether gerwalk or battroid modes and as such be hand held and there for less stable than on a hardpoint I think that having the ejection port as short as you could would help out in the long run by not given the shells any more time to get kinked up than you have to.

I would think that the fire control system for the rear firing laser would be something like the CIWS guns on today's ship. In that the system would already be tracking the target and the act of pulling the trigger would be more of giving the okay to fire rather than firing the laser itself. -sidenote- I think I remember hearing that some Sweden fighter, I think the JAS-39, has a system tied into the fire and flight controls that so as long as he had a radar lock when the pilot pulled the trigger for the gun the flight control computers would adjust the flight path to place the rounds on target.

I have to go with Quinn from Sealab 'WHAT DID YOU DO TO MY EYES!'

I never said anything about canon I just meant to list the different series that had their own time frame and that comes out at seven. And it was just a idea. odd that 2012 gets kicked, but still at seven, thanks Mr March.

It can go both ways. In a flight, say between the lead and the number two, the second guy would respond with 'two' for just about everything. If someone wanted to really make sure that they got through to Alto they would say 'Skull Zero Zero Seven.' because no matter what his flight position was he would always be 007. Here's something I'm not sure if anyone has said before but if you list the different Macross series you get that Frontier is the seventh so maybe that's way he's 007 1-Macross SDFM/DYRL 2-Macross 2012 3-Macross 2 4-Macross Plus OVA/Movie 5-Macross 7 and everything that goes with it 6-Macross Zero 7-Macross Frontier

Raramia. Not poking too much fun here so please no flames. when I first saw Pixie flight (I know, its listed as 'squadron' but there's only three of them! to me that's a flight) I was looking forward to seeing an episode through their eyes, I mean where did they live, how did they balance the micro/macro thing, stuff like that. Could have been good. One little thing for me was seeing the -171s with realistic missile loads - one big, three medium and the missile podunder each wing. As to just short range suckers on most VFs or the 12 medium range ones on the VF-0/1s. sidenote - would have loved to have seen an AIM-9 Sidewinder under the -0's wing to give a little mix of new and old.

I'll be back to vote after I review a few side by side. But I will say that there are a few moves/moments that I have always loved that aren't dogfights but I'll toss out for kicks. -That move Roy does with his gun pod in Zero, kicking it off the hardpoint and catching it in episode one. -Alto's rescue in episode two -Isamu's reentry at the end of Plus, driving one of the most advanced VFs and it comes down to riding it out and having a little faith. -Hikaru's 1st catshot with FAST packs in SDFM. -End of DYRL, humanity's last shot entails sending a single VF into the heart of a 600 km ship. would love to have seen that mission planing, 'At this point we are going to send you in.' 'Me, no airwing, no squadron, no wingman, as in me, myself and I, that me.' or... a la Ash 'This is my boomstick!' Williams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr4PcOQYFAw 'Groovy.' (of course replacing the chainsaw and shotgun bit with a scene of his -1S being loaded with FAST packs)

For me it has to be the VF-4, it is just so different from the VF-1 and I love the transformation design. It also kinda looks like the little brother of the SR-71 to me and I've always loved that bird as well. I now beg and pray for an 'All That VF' with the VF-4. I think that the lasers were in the arms that were lost at the end, so it was ether the head laser some how firing forward or a mistake.

I'm seeing something along the lines of him in an EX-gear in a Zentradi mall tearing the place apart. And quite possibly buzzing a few meltrandi, or hitting on them - your pick. (tossed that last bit in for MisaForever)

We have seen that an EX-gear can carry a person so the pilot would be able to help the GIB out some. Something about the EX-gear that I don't think has come up yet is what happens to the pilot if they are injured, knocked out or something else along those lines. Ejections are very hard on a person in the best cases, much less in combat. I'm thinking that the EX-gear would help some in that respect but still it makes me think about some poor, dumb guy falling to his death because he was unable to fly his EX-gear.

Thanks again for all the insights Mr March, always look forward to your take on things. -We really need/want a 'Jane's All the World's Valkyries' to help clear all this up.

Good point, I just thought that the fold booster that Brera used when he took Ranka was that new type that allowed for real time (not sure of the right term) folds and also maybe allowed longer ranged folds. -Edit- I think I missed the topic on how Frontier was handling fold space, could you review?