Ginrai

You have an interesting definition of "characters". Which episodes do Destroids play any kind of plot or story role? The only ones I can think of are the Destroids firing down the end of the Daedalus during the Daedalus Attack , the Destroids shooting up the Zentradi near the end of the series when Hikaru is rescuing Minmay and Kaifun, and Hikaru's starring role in a Spartan. The only time an actual CHARACTER ever pilots a Destroid is Hikaru in that Spartan. The closest Macross 7 gets is the old guys in the Monster in that one episode. The Destroids barely exist in DYRL, Macross 7, and Macross Plus. They have about as much presence in Macross Zero as they do in SDF Macross, which is to say, not very much. Well, I guess there's the 30 seconds of those redesigned Destroids in Macross II getting blown apart if that's what you want... So the "angles" comment is referring to the redesigned wings?

Uhm, Leader-1 was an F-15, just like Starscream and company, not an F-14. If you want a Transformer F-14, try Leozak/Autobot Rescue Jet or whatever.

I disagree. You can still be complacent and lazy and develop four or five mecha in EIGHTY YEARS.

You know what's awesome? Machine Robo: Revenge of Chronos.

Look at those two robots right next to each other. They are not that different. The biggest changes are the lower legs, chest, and head. The lack of those fins on the legs and the breasts are aesthetic changes, sure, but they are both really feminine, thin designs. By no means is the regular VF-11 a beefed out powerhouse. Even the very NAME Valkyrie is feminine. The biggest difference is the head. The regular VF-11 has this robotic, totally inhuman look while the MAXL has a human-ish face, making it something relatable. It's not longer alien and "hostile" by virtue of being "the other" ala Freud. I also think you overplay the importance of the Destroids. Macross' primary focus has always been on thin, nimble robots/jets that dart around quickly, except when wearing big beefy GBP armored for about ten seconds until it gets all shot up and ejected. Destroids barely exist in any Macross production past the original SDF Macross TV series, where they were totally marginalized, except perhaps in the single episode Hikaru piloted one. Isn't that "change" (the angles) also in the VF-19S and such? I think that's less a redesign and more a different artist's style in the animation. Yes, thanks everyone for being cool.

What you're ignoring is that Takara did not just take what Hasbro and Marvel Studios created and translate it. They adapted it, heavily rewriting it and totally rescoring it, not to mention totally different voice actors and everything. They Japanized it. It's not having a less than positive opinion about some aspect of another culture, it's suggesting that anything western is inherently both better than Japanese culture, and that Japan is totally into it strictly because western values are superior and Japan knows it. That drives me crazy. It annoys me just as much when Robotech fans claim Robotech's version of Macross/Southern Cross/Mospeada is better and that Japan acknowledges this. It's ludicrous. So one more time: Japan did NOT get the Transformers Hasbro/Marvel Studios created. They took the animation and retasked it with a totally new score, new writing, and new actors. HEY, JUST LIKE ROBOTECH. Or do you want to argue that Robotech is exactly the same thing as Macross?

How do you guys know the VF-4 does not exist in the DYRL -> Macross II timeline? As has been stated a jillion times, the numbers do not need to go in the order the plane's creation. The argument "omg VF-2 follows VF-1" also loses a lot of steam when you realize the VF-2JA and the VF-2SS are totally different fighters.

So, you're Japanese, right? Because if not, it's still racist! Enjoy!

You've got to be kidding. Maybe you were thinking of Votoms or Srungle. The only "realistic, clunky military" mecha in Macross are the Destroids. The VF-1 Valkyries were always graceful and lithe. Rather feminine in fact, and certainly far from clunky.

Yeah, all those g-forces. IN SPACE. Just sayin'. Okay, some once in while they're in an atmosphere, but 99% of the time they're in space, so who cares?

Sure, that story SOUNDS intersting, but it's shallow and poorly written, and the art sucks, so what do you want? If you just want Macross art, get Covert Ops and Vermillion. Both have cool Macross art.

Too bad almost all TV animation in Japan is now animated in Korea, where it's cheaper. Have you watched any robot anime made in the last 5 years? It all looks like that. Mars Daybreak, the new Transformers shows, blah blah...

VF5SS is completely right. Go watch the first few episodes of Headmasters and you'll see how drastically the characterization of the characters was altered for Japan. Rattrap is essentially Pikachu from Pokemon in Japan. BWII, Neo, and CR reflected popular trends in anime in the mid to late 90's, just as Micron Legend, Super Link, and Galaxy Force reflect the popular trends now. Then it was cheesy over the top camp, and now it's "dramatic" crap with obsessive collection gimmicks and badly compositing shoddy low grade CG robots with digitally drawn 2D human characters. It's the in thing. P.S. Note the other horrible trend in anime now being incorporated into Transformers -- moe. UGH. Kissplay Convoy = gross.

I got my replacement. I have not opened the shipping box. My enthusiasm for this toy is basically dead now. I think I will sell it.

It's a Michael Bay movie. Michael Bay movies never have decent stories. Sorry to disappoint.

Congratulations! This is the most racist thing I've seen on this board yet.

There were a lot of reasons Antarctic lost the license from what I hear. Continuity infractions were not a big deal. Publishing absolute garbage like Rubicon, anything Ben Dunn worked on, and of course, Robotech 3000 are all important factors. There are a few okay things in Artarctic's output: Rolling Thunder, Vermillion, and Covert Ops. Everything else is dire, dire trash. The first three issues of the regular Antarctic Robotech comics feature mecha COMPLETELY traced from Macross line art and badly computer colored. The Valkyries randomly switched heads, because hey, that VF-1A was in a different position than that VF-1J. Ugh.

That's an interesting take on it, and you can certainly view it that way, but I still think the character that changes the most throughout the course of the show remains Mylene. Perhaps one interpretation I'd have an easier time with is saying that Mylene is the "character protagonist" and Basara is the "action protagonist", but I definitely think Gamlin is a supporting character. He doesn't do much on his own. Mylene and Basara are both making decisions that affect people around them constantly while Gamlin mostly -reacts- to both Mylene and Basara. He freaks out when Basara flies into battle singing, he freaks out when he finds out Mylene is lying to him and is in the rock band, et cetera. Personally, I'm the lead singer of a rock band (we just had a concert Sunday night in fact), but I still relate to Mylene much better than Basara. The casual, earnest connection with Mylene is much stronger than Basara's aloof, "artist in an ivory tower" thing. But I dunno, I first started watched Macross 7 when I was about 16, so that probably plays into it, too.

True, but he gets the 1J as sloppy seconds. It's after Mylene already did that, did it better, and did it cooler. He gets the VF-1J and it immediately explodes. Haha. I think Gamlin is the comic relief, Basara is the more experienced "older brother" character, and Mylene is the protagonist. Ray, for the record, is the "aged master", the ninja guru type. I think Basara just gets more action scenes because he's a man. Mylene is a tiny little teenage girl. She can't be the alpha male. But she's out there kicking ass a lot (as the VF-1J scene can attest, as well as the numerous times she's out with Sound Force in her VF-11). She's not the protagonist of the Macross 7 "movie" or Dynamite 7, because her character arc is complete and she's barely in either. Of course, Basara still doesnt' develop very much in Dynamite, but oh wellllll...

Man, those Antarctic Press Robotech comics are for the most part extremely bad, especially Tigercat. Ugh. At least Return to Macross was readable. Tigercat is like getting your eyes stuck in a garbage disposal.

Yeah, how dare we spoil a show that's over ten years old. There's no way you could have seen it by now! Go to another thread.

Mylene is the main character. She is the outsider who has to have everything introduced to her, therefore the one you can relate to. She is the one who the love triangle centers on (she has two boys to pick from, just like Hikaru had two girls to pick from), she is the one who goes through a harsh learning curve, she is the one directly related to characters from the original Macross, she is the one piloting the VF-1J in the Macross homage... The only reason people don't recognize her as the main character, IMO, is that she is a girl. She's the one who develops as a character.

Dude, you don't understand Ginrai at all. He's a truck driver who drinks a lot. A truck driver that accidently gets a truck that turns in a robot. That's so cool it's not even funny. He's woefully inequipped to save anything, and his approach to fighting Destrons is to just punch them until they stop moving. Also, whenever something dramatic happens he drops his beer. That's so funny!

Guys, guys, SDF Macross was a kids' show too...

FYI the OAV Casshan is one of those 90's remakes of an old show. The original Casshan was from the 70's, so more likely Megaman owes a lot to Casshan, not the other way around.