RavenHawk

Yeah, they cut that element out of both the twins in the movie and Arcee, though it is still in the novel (well, Arcee anyway, haven't gotten far enough in the book to see if it's there for the twins).

No, that is not the definition of fanfiction that I've ever heard. By that logic, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are fan fiction because they were not created by Bob Kane (just an immediate example that comes to mind, but we could do thousands of these).

I liked it a lot. Lots of action, though it's somewhat repetitive for the first few episodes. Plot got off to a slower start than you would expect, considering how quickly it ends. Would've like this one to have been 24 eps.

Cool Thanks for posting that

They're a different kind of kooky. Not anime kooky, more like '90s Image comics kooky.

VFTF1, Sorry, our messages are getting too long to quote, so I'll just reply more simply. I understand everything you're saying, definitely see your points, and agree with a decent amount of it. I guess, for me, what it boils down to is that: 1) G1 were engineered toys first, and animated designs second. Thus, while the engineering is impressive for that time, and even to a degree for now, it wasn't as much of a stretch. Henkei... well, I don't own any, so I don't know how cool they might be, though they do look cool, but it seems easier to me to do an updated and more modern redesign of an older toy. The movie, on the other hand, has designs drawn up by movie designers with no real thought as to how they transform. Even the computer animators have flatly stated they did a lot of cheating on the transformations. I think it was a MAJOR effort to take something that was designed first to look cool, and figure out how to make it work as a toy. Devastator, as you say, is a perfect example. It's not that he doesn't transform and combine (except for the EZ/Legends one) because the engineers are too lazy to design a toy to do that; he doesnt transform and combine because the way he was designed by the movie designers, it is physically impossible. Mixmaster cannot have that robot mode, and still turn into that head, etc. 2) I'm just not as disappointed by the toys as you are. I guess, for me, i look at a $7-$30 movie transformer that transforms and looks pretty much like he did in the movie, I can drop him on the floor or let my kids play with him and he's still fine, but he's lacking in tampo and other details... and compare that to my $200 Yamatos (which I love) or CMs or Megahouse or Toynami "toys" where the transformation is no fun, they break while transforming then, never mind if they tip over, but look pretty and are nice for transforming once then leaving posed up on a shelf. For all the shortcomings, I can't really fault a $15 transformer that is the same size as a $150 anime toy, but is actually fun to play with and is durable.

I'll try to remember to take some this weekend.

VFTF1, I'm not going to quote your whole post, just this part, but anyone reading here can go back a page and see the whole detailed explanation of why you dislike the new designs. Anyway, I have to say that I both disagree and agree with you here. Yes, I think it IS easier to NOT anthropomorphize. While I like some of the new, less human looking designs because I see no reason for an alien species to transform into something that looks human, the movie designs, especially the ROTF ones, go to far. I think Sideswipes transformation is fun and just the right mix of human-looking and alien-looking. The Arcee sisters, on the other hand, while having a cool (though not necessarily original) idea of riding on one wheel, are incredibly lazy! It's like the engineers at Hasbro or Takara (or, based on concept art, the movie designers) took about 5 minutes total to design all three of them. So, yes, I agree with you on some of the movie stuff having lazy robot designs. On the other hand, I do like that they're not all boxy. They've gone to some lengths, on some of the designs, to make something that, in my opinions, makes sense for a protoform type creature which only becomes boxy when disguised as a vehicle. I'm as much of a victim of nostalgia as anyone else, but look at the old G1 designs. You really think those weren't lazy either? You think they looked more anthropomorphic? Iron Hide, Ratchet? Ok, maybe those are extreme examples, but look at Prime. We all love him from G1, but his torso is a big rectangle. His limbs are just rectangles. They took a boxy vehicle, and made it fold out into a boxy, and not truly all-that humanoid or complicated, boxy robot. Look at the G1 cars, be they Autobot or Stunticon (or other Gestalts) or whatever. I'd say probably 75% of the transforms by: 1) Hood folds down, creating chest and revealing face 2) sides pull out of fold out, revealing arms 3) trunks pulls back, and flips back and separates slightly, creating legs. My point is, there are TERRIBLE examples of movie robot modes and transformations, and there are TERRIBLE examples of G1 robot modes and transformations. Movie looks more cluttered. G1 looks more boxy. There are excellent examples from both as well, and I'm sure we all have our favorites. HOWEVER, with the exception of Arcee... I don't think the movie engineers are any lazier than the G1 engineers were, and may in fact be more creative and have a tougher job. They have to take the movie designer's robot artwork, and try and figure out some way to make it actually work.

Just got my Beagle/Toynami Rand. All the parts are MUCH tighter than on my Scott (this is a good thing), but, gotta say, with the tampo and stuff... this one just looks kind of boring to me, at least on the stand when the two are next to each other.

Wasn't there a line about Jazz' spark being completely gone? In the prequel novel to ROTF, they spend a lot of time discussing using large sources of power to recharge Megatron's spark, so I guess that is the basic idea here. I just kind of justified the Jetfire deal as being that he was essentially in a coma, and the spark brought him out of it. Of course, that's a pretty minor issue compared to how he got to be in the form of a plane from the '60s, anyway. You know, generally speaking, I agree with complaints here. The dialogue and plot of the second movie were absolute horrible garbage. BUT I still had fun watching it. As I think about the movie-verse overall, I really don't mind it to much. I love the designs, because they're drastically different from the old ones (so I don't feel any issue with these movies contradicting the old series) and because I do think they look cool and alien in their own right. I don't mind the general "lore" of the movie-verse, because I've read the IDW comics and they do a decent job of fleshing it out to where it's more palatable and, again, a nice alternative to the classic continuity. One thing that does bother me, however, is the naming. What I mean by that is that I know they are keeping G1's character names to somehow pay homage to the old characters, for the sake of all of us old fans. However, in the first movie Prime had some correlation to the G1 prime, so it made sense to keep his name. Ironhide and Ratchet were the same deal (and Jazz, to a lesser degree). In ROTF, however, Jetfire is NOTHING like the G1 Jetfire, except for being a plane and having been in stasis on Earth for a long time. Oh, and my favorite bots in the new movie, Sideswipe (sorry, but he is just plain cool) and Arcee (love bikes) have NOTHING in common with their G1 selves whatsoever, and don't have any dialogue to speak of (no pun intended) nor any personality development whatsoever. What's the point in even giving them the G1 names?

Anyone notice the small (is it Legends class?) Springer toy that came out with ROTF? Actually fairly decent, though not a triple-changer. Wish they'd make a bigger, more detailed one. As for the robot designs changing, I'm probably in the minority here, but I like the designs. Yes, they took a while to grow on me, but by being SO different from any of the animated designs, none of the movie stuff feels like the same universe, so it doesn't bother me.

Knockout appears in the prequel novel. Like the first movies prequel novel, not bad, but kind of dull, and really lends NOTHING to the movie (in fact, kind of confuses some elements).

Funny you mention that. My son found a stack of all the UPC codes from all the ROTF Transformers we've been buying in a drawer and asked me why I was keeping them. I realized I was just automatically going back to my childhood, when we could mail them away for freebies (I had the car Powerdasher, Downshift, and I got Transformers: The Movie on VHS free with 2 or 3 Pretenders proofs of purchase). Always wanted to join STARS...

Seriously, please tell us more about this one. I have Sideswipe, Depth Charge, and Chromia (my three favorite from the toys for the new movie) but can't see how you combined them, since I can't find a way to get a solid connection. Are they just kind of sitting on top of each other? Please tell us more.

Was hoping someone would pick up on that as I typed it. No, I do realize that the ice cream truck combines, I just feel that these two toys SHOULD combine also. I look at them and, between the opposite enlarged fists which seem intended for fists of a larger robot, the extra complicated articulations in the back parts of these toys, which suggest that something more is intended for them, like combining, and the rumors that the script for the movie called for them to combine during the final battle, but that it got cut (haven't read the novel yet to know if this is true or not), it just seems like they SHOULD combine. Look at the motorcycle bots. Both Chromia and Arcee have features on the back to allow them to combine, and it has been said in interviews that this was in the script, but got cut. Of course, there are rumors of larger (Leader class?) Skids and Mudflap coming out later in the year, so maybe those are intended to combine.

Seems like there's more toy talk here than in the movie thread, so I'll ask here: I just picked up deluxe Mudflap tonight. Now, I still feel strongly that this toy and deluxe Skids should combine somehow, but can't figure out how. Nothing in the instructions, nothing from google searches. Anyone here figured it out?

Wow, never knew that. Very cool. I guess the Japanese designs didn't incorporate Autobots and Decepticons, so you could have anyone combining with anyone else. Very cool. And now I know, 25 years later...

What was the George Sohn case? I'm familiar with both companies and have products from both, but unfamiliar with what you're referring to.

I never knew that (never could afford them as a kid, so never had a chance to discover that on my own either). Any pics?

This is the one and only pic of this toy I've seen that makes it look at all desirable to me.

When did you grow up on the East Coast? I grew up on the East Coast and, mid '80s, it DID air here (at least in Western Mass), which is when/where I watched it. Of course, it aired at weird times, like 6am for a while, and then 1:30pm for a while. I lived in France briefly (about when Robotech stopped airing here, like '86 or '87) and it aired there at much more normal times, with a bigger following too, I think.

I already own all the Rhino ones (and my son watches them regularly) so really don't expect to buy the Shout ones. What's the deal with Bob Budiansky and the triple changers?

I really hope they do look cool. I haven't seen any pics of the bikes combined or of Skids and Mudflap combined. I hope it's a decent combination, not like Gladiator Force Voltron ( Lightspeed ElectroGod Albegas ), where it was just three robots basically stacked on top of each other.

The Arcee that comes with the Human Alliance Skids w/Mikayla does transform, though the bike mode looks like the "Arcee" figure, while the transformation looks identical to the "Chromia" figure (based on photos of the back of the packaging for this Human Alliance set). I'm wondering if this is in fact the third Arcee combiner, since in the movie there are three bikes, but for Deluxes we've only seen Chromia and Arcee. Though I don't know for sure, I'm going to guess that she might actually be the same scale as the deluxe here, to reduce costs of molds used and because, comparing figures I have at home to the expected scale of this one, it looks like the sizes still line up just fine (though, like I said, this is just a guess).

I posted this in the Michael Bay Transformers thread, but it looks like this is more of the spot for talk about the toys based on the current conversation, so, with all due apologies, I'm reposting it here: For what it's worth, I picked up Sideswipe (Deluxe), Skids (Deluxe), Chromia (Deluxe), Breakaway (Deluxe), Rampage (Deluxe), Optimus Prime (Movie Legends), Jetfire (Movie Legends), Depth Charge (Scout), Rollbar (Scout), Ransack (Scout), and Knock Out (Scout) over the weekend (a couple were previously, the rest were taking advantage of Toys 'R Us having a 20% off sale). For anyone who is interested, here are my thoughts: Sideswipe: Absolutely love this one. Had a feeling I was going to like him when I saw the first pics of this one, but it is my absolute favorite, by a long shot. Yes, he's tough to pose, but he looks great it car mode, is actually fun to transform, and looks fantastic in robot mode. This is the one I keep going back to, as do my kids, while leaving the others on the shelf. Skids: Not sure what to say. My son wanted to get this one, so we did. Transforming him is fun, though more complicated than it should be and I don't see a lot of kids really enjoying it, but the robot mode just looks awkward and too small. Chromia: I really really wanted to love this one, since I am obsessed with motorcycle Transformers. Now, I really really love the bike mode, but the robot mode doesn't look right, doesn't pose, and is all disjointed, like they just rushed something, saying "Just have something fold out, and we'll call it an arm." I like this toy, but I don't love it like I should. Breakaway: I really like this one. The jet mode is really pretty boring, but his robot mode just looks nice and different, and he's genuinely fun to transform. Problem is, his colors are terrible. If they had colored him the color that he is on the back of the packaging, he'd be fantastic. Rampage: Looks good as a bulldozer, and his robot mode looks fantastic, really impsing. Problem is he's hard to pose, and he is a pain in the neck to transform. This is one of those ones you transform once, then just leave on display in robot mode. Optimus Prime: He's ok. Nice to have a simple change prime, and I like that they went with a new way of transforming him, instead of just trying to shrink down the old one. Jetfire: Eh. Doesn't look so hot in either mode, but I think his robot mode might look better than any of the other movie Jetfire toys currently available, including the robot replicas. Depth Charge: I really like this one, and I don't know why. Something about the robot mode just looks very cool to me. Rollbar: Fun little guy. More to the transformation than I would expect. Nothing really special here, though you have to love the Red Bull knockoff. Ransack: Very very cool. Love the biplane, love the steampunk look of the figure. Wish I had the patience to paint it red. Knock Out: Not bad at all. Fun and different transformation, not too simple and not too complex. Just right. I like this one a lot and am looking forward to the Reverb repaint. Now, what I think is a big deal: COMBINING! Movie Legends class (yes, the tiny ones) Optimus Prime and Jetfire combine! I didn't know this when I bought them, but was kind of hoping they would. Granted, a peg on Jetfire just slides into a notch on Prime, so there's nothing to it, but the result actually looks a good bit like the combined form is supposed to in the movie (and on the big toys and on the keychain). HOWEVER, with the Deluxe class vehicles, it really ticks me off. We get Chromia now, but Arcee, whom she combines with, doesn't come out until the fall. We get Skids, but Mudflap, whom he combines with, doesn't come out until the fall. Same with Prime and Jetfire I believe. I assume that this is so that when they combine in the movie it will be a surprise to the general public, but it is really disappointing waiting months to get the other half of the combined toy.