Mark Nguyen

Thanks for the G-suit correction; though you can still argue that those used today are far better at keeping pilots conscious than the earlier generations, especially with higher-G maneuvers an everyday issue. Mark

All true - but think about what jet pilots today have to face compared to those from the dawn of the jet age fifty years ago. In the Korean war, you have sub-mach F-86 Sabres clashing with almost on-par MiG-15s (I'm generalizing, yes). Flying and fighting was at low speeds and close in - you had to see your enemy to kill him, and you could not pull too much positive or negative G or risk blacking out. Today, an F-15 approaches Mach 2 while being able to kill an enemy outside of visual range with missiles and advanced radar. You can pull much more G than before thanks to a pilot's G-suit, and you can go farther and faster than ever before. You may not be as nimble as an F-86 but everything else more than makes up for it. How do plots of SW1 compare with those in the Varauta War or the upcoming Frontier conflict? They are certainly trained to operate their machines efficiently, as efficiently as you can with human training. But in war, you'll still see people killed due to lack of experience, pilot error, psychological effect, and simple lucky shots. And against a technologically superior enemy, there's only so much you can do - a turkey shoot is still a turkey shoot, the planes are simply different. Of course, in anime victory is generally assured depending on how important and popular your character is - we see Gamlin hop into a VF-11 and lay waste to a whole squadron of Elgerzornes. OTOH, Basara manages to annoy just about everyone and yet he survives... Mark

I agree. "Green" is also a relative term. It's very likely that the M25 fighter force is trained to fight unknowns, but trained on existing or past threats such as Zentradi or (arguably) Varauta. It's clear they were easily outclassed in terms of firepower, speed and maneuverability, so I'd give those pilots a lot of credit IMO. Should they come up against another rogue Zentradi fleet in disrepair, I think they'd be more than adequately prepared for a battlepod turkey shoot, if the Ghost fighters didn't get the enemy first. Mark

Mission plans could have changed, too. While we only saw a grand total of five military-use VF-19s in Macross 7 (Docker's 19S, Voldick and Matthews in their 19Fs, and the two unnamed newbies who replaced them for a very short period of time), we don't know for sure just how common they are otherwise. I think there is a specific divide between colony fleets and pure military forces, with the former being a little lower on the totem pole for the shiniest new toys. So when Diamond force got transferred to City 7 defence and they needed a new elite team, of course they'd nab the latest ones and Emerald Force was born. It's not like they got a shipment in from Earth; they apparently tested out the Three Star manfuacturing lines by building Docker's plane first (in the breifly-seen light blue scheme) and then rounding out his squad with two 19Fs. Still, they didn't set about building 19s wholesale and replacing whole squadrons, even though they had the capability; but if you could build three VF-11s for the cost of one VF-19, you'd naturally do that. The VF-25 may be the main NUNS fighter in military squadrons, but the mere colony fleets have to be stuck with the more numerous and economical VF-171. I hope that when we inevitably see the Macross Galaxy fleet they'll support this. With the USAF as an example. There are currently over 700 F-15s in service (not counting the Strike Eagle). Its replacement, the F-22, will see less than 200 planes built, but it's still going to be the "main USAF fighter". Meanwhile, the not-quite-main USAF fighter, the F-35, is planned to have 1700 or more built, to replace the 1200+ F-16s they have... Mark

I don't mind the name not "officially" showing up until later in the series, if at all. It's not like we knew the VF-17 was called a "Nightmare", for example, and it's not like it affects the plot in any way... Mark

It's in there somewhere alright - I think in the too-brief battle scenes of episode 6. In battroid mode, one fires into space from the hull of a ship and then takes off. A grand total of two seconds screen time, being generous. Mark

Now now, everyone is entitled to their opinion - even if it's horribly, horribly unpopular. Mark

In DYRL, there's a moment during the climactic song where a Zentradi barrage penetrates into Macross City, blowing a TON of stuff up. One poor bystander sees stuff collapse, turns and runs away, and is promptly decapitated by falling debris. Sucks to be him. Mark

Not necessarily... It is more than double the length, which means it has at least four or five times the surface area, assuming the oval shape of the ship is proportionately the same as with City 7. The internal habitable volume is therefore at least eight to ten times the size of City 7, including much more open air but also much more room underground and in the aforementioned Sky City. I agree that it would be a little more crowded than Macross 7, but not by THAT much. NICE view of the city's interior, though. You could fit all of the original SDF-1 Macross in there! And hey, why is the lake at the back of the ship? If the M25 helmsman steps on the brakes, everyone in the city would get wet! Mark

Say, when in the animation IS the 2SS visible with the stripe? I thought the only time we see them without SAP is in episode 3, and at then only in demo colors. The OP and eyecatch planes are without the leg stripes... I dug up the old Mecha Press magazine which contains a lot of conjecture based on the first two episodes. The firmest numbers listed there are height and apogee motor number, which may or may not have been counted manually as I'm not sure where this information would have come from otherwise. My TIAS Macross II book is still in storage somewhere, so I can't access that until I can find it. Can't wait to see your work on the VF-XX and that GERWALK fighter thing, from episode 5. I also found the Palladium books - and did I mention how much they SUCK? They tried to make five distinct Valkyrie types out of the two designs we see, for crissakes! Mark

I disagree - the animation isn't THAT great in the whole series, and is especially poor in episode 6 - and the finale is the LAST place you want your B team..! But the Marduk attack later in the Festival episode is somewhat better than average - Nexx using his super-duper cannon was a nice highlight. You have to remember that overall, MII was light on the mecha action, and was often criticized for that and the fact that what you saw was way too fast. Anyway, Mr. Mark thinks Mr. March is getting much closer, and is continually producing good stuff for the M3. I still disagree about Nexx's demo plane - it's clearly a white stripe on a bluish hull we see, where his standard plane we see later (which is also featured in episode 1) is blue-striped on the usual whitish hull. I think he swapped planes just like the rest of Fairie Squadron did when they went to save Sylvie in the Metal Siren - among things, his squadron was firing multicoloured lights during the demo, and not white beams o' death. You could argue that it's a simple flip of the switch to toggle either mode, but I'd rather think he simply jumped into his standard fighter which was loaded with active armament instead of lightshow-friendly twizzlers and lightballs (which he expended anyway). But hey, it's your website. I'm just calling what I see. As for the white and yellow plane you linked above, I think that's from the old Entertainment Bible book released that also contains the only images of the VF-1R series from the Macross 2036 game - the paint patterns are the same. EIther way, the EB books contain mostly re-traced lineart that was colored by their own artists; I'm not sure if it's "official" color work. Mark

Macross 7 showed that many old Earth landmarks are reporduced inside colony ships, probably for cultural or nostalgic reasons. City 7 had Big Ben, the Eiffel Tower, and various other historical monuments inside, as did the Hollywood ship. Mark PS - Pensive talk HERE about Macross! Not Flare! HERE!

Nice, but I think the link shows that the acrobatic team (Fairie Squadron) is composed of only TWO colors of 2SS Valkyries, shown at 3:30-3:38 of the linked video above. They are trailing different COLOURS of light, but they are clearly only red and orange fighters. Then, at 4:27, you can clearly see that Nexx's 2SS is light blue with white stripes; his usual fighter is the light grey with blue stripes you already have. Finally, at 4:28 and 4:40-4:42, you can see that the other 2SS SAP ships are light greenish compared to his plane. I'm willing to concede that this is a lighting issue and they're standard grey, but given what Fairie Squadron shows with their red lead and orange following fighters, it wouldn't surprise me if Nexx's squadron was light blue and light green in the same manner. Nexx's colours are clearly different than standard, though. Also, I'm not entirely convinced that the "standard" colour schemes for the 2SS includes the coloured stripes down the sides of the leg. We only really see a non-SAP 2SS at two points: the opening, and the eyecatch. Neither seem to indicate a leg stripe, at 2:53 of the above video, or the end of this one: Mark

Here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ONMQ5rZic0k The "Festival" starts at 3:00 - and I've noticed several things I've never seen before about the colour schemes. Sylvie flies a solid red 2SS with white highlights and no SAP, while the rest of Fairie Squadron has identical orange birds in a similar scheme. Later at 4:15, Major Nexx and his group do some target practice with 2SS SAPs. His plane (with the unique-to-him heavier gun pod) seems to be light blue with white stripes (normally it's the grey with blue stripes seen above), and his squadmates might be light green with white stripes? Interesting. Later, when Sylvie and Wendy are ambushed in the demo model of the Metal Siren, Nex launches with Fairie Squadron in their usual birds; Nastasha just happens to by flying a 2SS with Sylvie's nominal red trim instead of her own lavender stripes. Funny, that. Mark

I thought so too. They also came up with all the model numbers for the gun pods, etc. Palladium's Macross stats are largely apocryphal and are generally ignored. I have the old "This is Animation Special" book for MII at home... I don't remember too much in the way of numbers though, aside from perhaps sizes. Mark

Here's how I see the hands thing: arguably, the Valkyrie's hands ARE The most articulated part of the machine - five digits all built and calibrated to work like a human hand. While able to punch something like a Zentradi skull, if you could protect the RELATIVELY delicate machinery that makes the fingers work, wouldn't you? Look at the old F-14 Tomcats and their swing wings - there was a saying in the Navy that if a team maintaining an F-18 Hornet started their work at the same time, the Tomcat team would still be working with the Hornet team was into their third round of beer after finishing. Over-technology or no, you will still want to protect impact to the little things if you can. Heck, that's why humans punch each other with fists instead of open hands in the first place. Before the days of PPB, even WITH the energy conversion, I can see that hands on early Valkyries would be larger and more armored to be better and heavier blunt weapons. But with the advent of shields, bayonets, and ultimately the PPB, Valkyrie hands would not NEED to be larger and more armored to pretect themselves in hand-to-hand. This is NOT to say that hands on the VF-25 can't lay some Muhammad Ali on the nearest bug, only that they don't HAVE to anymore. Mark

If you think about it, they actually are. They didn't have pinpoint barriers or shields with pointy ends back then. Today's Valkyrie hands are doubtless capable of much more dexterity withouth having to armor them the way they used to. The way I rationalize the VF-171 is using several real world parallels, namely with my favorite jet figther: - The Canadian Air Force operates a variant of the F/A-18A Hornet, called the CF-188. Nomenclature like this is analagous to VF-17 ---> VF-171. - The US Navy main fighter is now the F/A-18E and F Super Hornet. While externally similar to the earlier C and D models, they are almost wholly new machines, sharing very few components. Again, this is like how the 171 is very different than the 17, but they are indistinguishable to the lay-person. - In terms of politics, the Super Hornet, while different enough than the original Hornet to be a differently-named and designated fighter, was specifically given the same name and variant letters to keep it in tune with the original. This is such that the Navy could make it LOOK like they were just continuing development on the Hornet rather than just get a new fighter, which looks better to the accountants in the US Congress. For the 171, the notion that it is a mass-production machine suggests that NUNS could have been "upgrading" the old 17, when in fact they got themselves a completely new machine that just happens to look like its predecessor. Thoughts? Mark

Okay. so the VF-171 is indeed the new cannon fodder plane in Frontier, and is the current main fighter in NUNS. Kinda makes that whole Project Super Nova thing pointless in hindsight, no? Meanwhile, Frontier itself concentrates most of its citizens (at least five million) in the largest "Island One" structure, which must therefore be a larger analogue to City 7 since the latter is supposed to have a million people in their whole fleet. Hum. Mark

I'll have to dig up the episode again... I seem to remember in that episode he used the chest lasers for a few shots before popping out the gun pod. Mark

I don't think they're shrunk down; looking at the leg joints, there's no way a full-sized female Zentradi could fit in there. Unless it's an animation design goof, I'd say that these powered armors are piloted by fun-sized giants only. As for the ARMD carriers, the only time we see them used is when VF-11s are being launched form them. They simply appear from the blackness and zoom off. I can see them being used for retrival too... But in MF it is the first time we see the classic Valkyrie launch as seen in DYRL, with added funk. Mark

Hey, let's talk about the new mecha introduced int he other threads! Per the recent images, we'll be treated to the following in MF: 1. The VB-6 (?) Konig Monster Some panel lines are different, but overall I don't think it's changed much since VF-X2. As that game supposedly happens in 2050, having one show up here is just fine. It's in SMS service and not NUNS though, but if SMS uses the latest 25s... Who knows what use they'll have in the show, but long-large bombardment is hardly needed inside the ship (especially since they already have lots of conventional tanks). I'm guessing that Frontier will see some planetside action, enabling this smiling giant some screen time at last. 2. More Quedulun Rau Meltran armor I'm happy to see these gals in what seems to be a Meltran analog to the armor units we saw in Macross Plus. Oddly though, the legs look all wierd, and they CERTAINLY don't look like they can carry a full size pilot in the legs. Or am I wrong, and in the original are the pilot's legs bunched up somewhere else but in the leg? Either way, it looks like they've got a little additional firepower now, with a new cannon on the back and longer-barreled triple guns in the arms. And new details on stuff we've seen: 3. The VF-171 Liking it more, even if it's skinnier than I'd thought they'd make it. I see now that the shoulders seem to have only one missle port each, as opposed to the two each the original VF-17 had. This is again analogous to the VF-11, which had four missile ports per FAST pack on the B model from Macross Plus, but only two each on the C model we see in Macross 7. There's also no sign of the wierd forward-articulating knee the original had (and never explained). No sign of the arm-mounted cannon, but it might just be retracted; OTOH, it was never REALLY used on the 17, and the skinnier arms siggest it's not there. 4. The warships Not much new here, although some have argued that the Uraga carrier types are much longer than the M7 lineart, and must therefore be variants. I'm personally willing to chalk these up to artistic interpretation, and the fact that these CG versions actually LOOK like they can be 500m long. The ARMD carriers continue to have no visible detail in their gaping maw, although in M7 it's shown to be a fighter launch bay. This contrasts with MF, where the 171s are launched from familiar DYRL armatures on the sides, complete with M7-esque hologrpahic guidance lighting. This keeps me thinking that the 171s still fill the role of spec ops fighter, and that some unseen (and possibly NEVER to be seen) fighter is still the cannon fodder workhorse. Let me hope for a 19, dammit! Any more details to dicuss? Mark

Actually, we already know this. Before joining the M7 fleet, Physica was from Eden. I'm sure that unless they meet an untimely demise, ALL the emmigration fleets maintain regular contact with Earth and the colonies through the Galaxy Network. Beyond that, there would be transportation possible between the various fleets and colonies. Basara didn't seem to have a problem at all getting to Zola without a Valkyrie... He even seemed to take regular transportation to get there. Mark

I'm pretty sure there's another shot of the Neo-Nupitueajneouawvnrbsojeitz ship later on, but destroyed. In whatever episode it was that Basara found the M5 fleet shipwrecks, I'm certain we see the ol' Zentran phallus rusting away. Hum - establishing that this is the 11th SUPER long distance fleet solves a lot of problems. Looking at Egan's chronology, we can rationalize that Earth has been sending out colony fleets in several waves: -Close-range fleets (Megaroad-01, 02, 03, et. al.) whose mission is to find and colonize planets within 100 light years. Eden was apparently an early success of this program. -Long-distance fleets (Macross-5, Macross-7, Macross-9 et. al.). M7 is indeed the 37th such fleet. -SUPER-long-distance fleets (Macross 25/Frontier, Macross Galaxy). Frontier, Galaxy and M7 set course for teh galactic core, but along different routes and at different times. I'm still not convinced that the Island modules HAD to be assembled somewhere else. While much smaller, M7's Aschio suburb was built en-route and without too many people noticing - and it has a similar design to the islands. It's true that a factory ship was helping build the new Battle 7; however, there's nothing to refute the islands being capable of being built, or even building EACH OTHER along the way. Who knows what alchemical miracles are housed under the ground level... Also, for all we know, they could have had a factory ship for years at a time, which then left to build more stuff elsewhere. Since Frontier seems to be one huge ship, it's reasonable to assume that they had everything that 10 million people would need in the way of manufacturing and repair built right in. While it's true that Frontier has a population of ten million, we don't know that it started that way. We also don't know how long they've been travelling (arguably no more than 21 years when M7 was launched, but certainly no earlier than 2030 when M1 was launched). Even in a decade, the population may have grown by many thousands of people. From the images, it seems that Frontier has a lower population desnsity than M7, as it has no skyscrapers in evidence. Most of Island 1 seems dominated by a lake larger than than in M7, for example. It's possible that everyone started out bunched up pretty closely, then decided to spread out over time. OTOH, it is true that Island 1 LOOKS a lot larger on the inside than CIty 7; we don't know yet if this is just pespective. Either way, there don't seem to be many SUPER tall buildings this time. With regards to the configuation of the Islands, they ARE spread out in two branches, but the number and placement of Islands on each side does not seem symmetrical as you'd expect. At the very beginning of the scene where we first see the ghost squadron, you can see that there are more Islands on the portside branch than the starboard; a tactical graphic supports this somewhat, though I accept that there is a perspective on the shot. Mark

The ol' destroids didn't survive past the first series. No new designs have REALLY surfaced since then, chronolicially speaking. We don't see any in 2040, 2045, or the videogames following that era. I don't expect to see them here. The upshot is, that if you need something for hand to hand against giant space monsters, get a Valkyrie. If you just need firepower, use a tank. Mark

Yeah, I agree that the pyramid shape is just a generic "there's something here" symbol. the circling word "unknown" around it kinda gives it away, unless there's a bunch of super-secret science nerds out there. The other ship "symbols" are pretty detailed, so if it were something we knew, I'd think they'd use a more accureace shape than that. Can we get some referenced numbers about the fleet? Where does it say that M-25 is the 11th emmigration fleet? I'm also starting to think that designations are arbitrary... M-7 was supposed to be the 37th emmigration fleet, but the seventh New Macross class combo, hence the "07" number painted all over Battle 7. Thus, it MIGHT be that M-25 is the 25th New Macross class combo, BUT the ship joined (and took over) the 11th/25th emmigration fleet as the flagship sometime after they left Earth. For all we know, some others may be correct in that the fleet was a collection of the Island modules that were subsequently attached to M-25 when it showed up. In fact, it may have been launched with an old Megaroad; they built the Islands over time, and when M-25 showed up they thought it better for the new guy to tow everyone else. They renamed City25 as "Island 1", numbered the pill modules from there, and collectively called the whole thing "Frontier". I have no problem assuming they built the pill modules over time in space - they're able to build most of a New Macross carrier within a year (ref. Dynamite 7), so building a bunch of colony ships over the course of decades doesn't seem too far-fetched to me. It STILL doesn't really explain the haphazard and lopsided attachment of the Island modules to Island-1. Obviously, they don't anticipate landing like that. Mark PS - Still looking for screencaps of the various map displays, etc. Is there a repository here on MW besides what Graham has set up?