1st Border Red Devil

Thats where you are wrong. Unless dialogue states differently, we can only definitively show that the REF lost at least 3 divisions (as per dialogue) which amounts to so many ships. So, no, you are wrong and I am right. Again, unless statements are made otherwise, you are wrong. What the animators wanted, they should have shown or made sure dialogue said as much.

Better get your eyes checked Danth....she destroyed the Neutron-S Missiles...yes, but she got 3 Cruisers: 2 Garfish & 1 Ikazuchi & 3 Horizon Troop Shuttle's in energy wake....not the entire reclamation mission. There would still be 10 Ikazuchi's and the SDF-4 remaining.

Only in your mind...... Oh really? Care to explain the Masters mentioning the Invid in eps. #29 The Robotech Masters? I take it back, you obviously were born a moron.... Thats what the Narrator says in The Invid Invasion....so you're not doing to well.... Hmm....must be watching different animation because I saw Lancer's 10th (Mars) Division get crushed and Scott's 21st (Mars) Division get crushed. The 36th (Jupiter) Division got through. How else do you explain the Shadow Fighters at the battle of Reflex Point? Hmmm....I do believe the Commander of the SDF-4 said they could hold out for a few more hours. Or, maybe it is you've forgotten that each of the 8 Neutron-S Missiles had an Ikazuchi-class Cruiser as a tender, plus 3 Ikazuchi's as close escort to the SDF-4. Sorry, absolutely wrong. The Army of the Southern Cross had a significant numerical advantage in terms of fighters/mecha as well as star fleet. These figures represent the minimum's possible. UEF Home Fleet during the 2nd Robotech War: 2 Tokugawa-class Super Carriers (carries 1000 fighters each) 29 Tristar-class Cruiser Leaders (carries 220 fighters each) 104 Ardennes-class Heavy Cruisers (carries 75 fighters each) 208 Nelson-class Destroyers* (carries 45 fighters each) 15 Pegasus-class Assault Shuttles (carries 6 fighters each) Grand total minimum: 25,930 UEEF Fleet during the 3rd Robotech War SDF-4 Izumo (carries 3120 fighters) 22 Ikazuchi-class Troop Cruisers (carries 584 fighters each)** 2 IZUM-Series Logistics Ships (carries 96 fighters each) 77 Garfish-class Light Cruisers (carries 15 fighters each) 144 Horizon-class Troop Shuttles* (carries 2 fighters each) Grand total minimum: 17,603 Thank you for playing 'I don't know what the f*ck I'm talking about'. Kindly shut the f*ck up when you claim the REF was more powerful than the ASC, cause it ain't true. * Because the series focuses on mid-range ships and not the small ones, an accurate count is not possible. We come up with 32 Destroyers. However, in every fleet panshot, there are always x2 destroyer escorts to every battlecruiser. ** This includes x4 Ikazuchi's for Point K to account for the over 2000 fighters based there according to Scott in Enter Marlene. Nice strawman. I'll take that as a non-answer. Yet her 3rd in command says the UEEF outnumbers the Invid. I doubt Sera was lying to the Regiss. Yet she says 'We shall not be defeated!'..... So Scott is lying when he says it was an Advance Base created before Hunter knew who it was that had invaded the Earth. Try again.... Sorry, I'm using dialogue from the Tv series. All you are doing is talking out your ass. Keep blathering the McKinney perspective Jenius..... No you dumf*ck. The DoZ and the Invid are not the same because they are treated separately, mentioned separately and the Invid are dismissed as a threat in eps. #29 The Robotech Masters. The DoZ, on the otherhand, are not dismissed out of hand. Without a doubt, you don't have brain cell one in your head.... Not when you are encircled..... Edit: Ok, would someone please tell me why the 'quote' tags are not working?

Zor finds the protoculture and beats the sh!t out of the Invid to gain it. They are summarily forced to leave their homeworld (stated by the Regiss). The Zentraedi in turn kick the sh!t out of the original Robotech Masters. Do the friggin math. Only in Jack McKinney-land. Wrong! The Masters are concerned about the Invid because they are fighting a protracted war over the Earth. Their expenditure of resources is far outweighing their possibility of assured victory against the Invid. They are worried about them because of their war with the Southern Cross, as stated in the Tv series. The only person among the Masters who is afraid of the Invid is Musica, a civilian. Her views on military matters doesn't mean squat. Were you born a moron, or did you mom drop you repeatedly on your head as a child? That has to be, bar none, the most asinine attempt at brushing off The Masters War I've seen in a long time. Whats more, its patently wrong. You missed the point entirely. The new comics are claiming that the term Shadow, as in the forces of the shadow that engulfed the ancient Invid, are some new aliens and not the Masters, which is patently un-canon. What's more, the simple fact is that the Shadow technology can easily be shown to be reverse engieneered Tirolian ECM & ECCM technology courtesy of Dana's Story, Half Moon and Clone Chamber. How else can you explain the Masters landing a 510m long ship what may be as close as 150km (if not closer) to Monument City? Don't you think a half-kilometer long ship would arouse some suspicion? Further, the Masters' ability to control what looks suspiciously like dimensional energies in The Trap and Catastrophe fits perfectly with the 4-dimensional cloaking mumbo jumbo Sue Graham spews in eps. #83 Reflex Point. The Invid, for their part, seem to have adapted a great number of technologies from the Tirolians during the course of The New Generation, such as The Protoculture Sensor and The Broadcast Towers. Except that the Zentraedi don't mention them to their erstwhile new allies, the UEF. Otherwise, why would no one in the 2nd Robotech War know who the Invid are? Which is all the more stupid.... Good possibility, more on that in a second.... WRONG! The Zentraedi were created as an interstellar police force. Later, the Masters used them against their true enemy: The Disciples of Zor, as mentioned in eps. #29 The Robotech Masters. A group, I might add, that is capable, according to the Masters, of opening up offensives against the 5.8 million warship strong Zentraedi under Dolza's command. Not so. Care to explain Point K, a powerful UEF base that existed before the REF knew what the Invid were? Wrong. They took over what they could because of their lack of, thats right, resources, specifically the Flower of Life. Why else would the Regiss state that the harvest of the FoL had reached a critical phase in eps. #72 The Fortress, a time right before she starts mass transmutation of the Invid to human form. Wrong. I do believe that in Robotech, the Regiss leaves after being conivinced that the REF is going to slaughter them due to their numerical advantage (as stated by Sera in Symphony of Light.) Then how did Point K survive for years on end? I dunno, maybe to prevent the humans from launching more attacks against them, as they did in the Tv series. Ya know, those three pesky moon bases caused so much trouble for the Invid. You would imagine, if they were as all powerful as you claim, they could have easily swatted aside the UEEF.

Cause the Invid would have been extinct otherwise. The Zentraedi caused the collapse of the original Robotech Republic by smashing the crap out of everything. Reference: Khyron's Revenge. 'The shadow of the Robotech Masters has been allowed to rule this planet for too long. Now it must end.' - The Regiss eps. #85 Symphony of Light Doesn't get any more self-explanatory than that. The Tv series is canon, period. As for the Invid being powerful, hah. Please, explain why the Regiss states that the Invid had to flee to another galaxy twice in their recorded history. Plus, if they were so all friggin powerul, how come they could not even take over the entire Earth? There were large pockets of land they could not control. There was also the fact that they could not drive the UEEF from the Moon. Hardly sounds like a powerful race. Nope, thanks to that little clause Harmony Gold created: The Tv series trumps everything. Most of what was written in the new comics conflicts one way or another with Robotech.

Review of Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles #2 The Good - The return of Karen Penn. Design doesn't look too bad, though she looks real good for being 35. - The SDF-3 redesign gets a good layout at the back of the book. Not bad overall, I guess. The Crusader-class Dropships explain the cover of PtSC #4. - The Tokuagawa redesign, as well, gets a layout to better explain things. - Breetai's warriors now pilot some kind of Bioroid-like mecha. - Dr. Louis Nichols and Dr. Miles Cochrane make a brief appearance. - The Horizon V-class Troop Shuttle makes a brief appearance. - The Regent's Shocktroopers now have some kind of armoured space booster/weapons platform they dock with, allowing them to be more fully utilized in space. Interesting design. - The return of Lazlo Zand, who now has cybernetic eyes. - The Regent and Breetai bite the bullet fighting each other on the bridge of the Regent's cruiser....because Edwards target the ship with the Icarus's synchro-cannon. Good riddance to both. The Bad - The Shadow technology is now said to be an ancient technology that has been revived. Ok, total BS. The Masters had stealth technology and most certainly could detect protoculture emissions. This is wonky reasoning as its plain the tech was in the hands of the Tirolians in the Tv series. - The Icarus, apparently as well as the rest of the Shimikaze-class cruisers split their bow to fire their synchro-cannon. - No explanation of where Zand has been nor how it is Lang thinks he was dead. - The new Zentraedi mecha are some 40+ feet tall. Why? The Ugly - Lazlo Zand makes reference to cloaking from the Shadow Dimension. WTF? The Shadow, as the Regiss calls it in Robotech, has always been a reference to the Masters and their dastardly deeds in ancient times in which they kicked the poo out of the Invid. -Breetai's helmet looks like Judge Dredd's. I expected him to say to the Regent 'I am the LAW!' - Breetai claims the Zentraedi fought the Invid for years on end. Bull-f*cking-sh*t. The Invid would have gotten totally annhilated by Dolza's fleet. Whats more, thank you Breetai for betraying the UEG to the Masters and the Invid during the 2nd Robotech War. This entire line of reasoning is the most asinine thing about these new comics. - Just as in #1, no one gets a shot off at the Icarus. Excuse me, I do believe that just because it has passive stealth does not mean its cloaked from visual or laser targeting. WTF, do Robotech munitions not have television/visual guidance packages? Are we somehow to believe that the gun emplacements on the Tokugawa had all their visual targeting aids ripped out, eventhough we clearly see visual targeting used in eps. #50 Triumvirate? - The Tokugawa's sensors do not detect the Icarus's powering up of her synchro-cannon until its too late. WTF, are we somehow supposed to believe that the massive spike in energy distribution somehow is cloaked by the Shadow Technology? There is no way to cover the leakage of radiation from the main gun's powering up. - The Regent's Scorpion cruiser now looks even more arachnid-like. Stupid. - How is it the Karbarrans were only a year ago just liberated and able to aid the UEEF in refitting their vessels? Wouldn't the Regent have laid waste to their industrial capacity, you know 'scorched earth' tactics, to prevent his enemies from retaliating against him for some time. - Edwards gets full control of the Invid mecha fighting against the UEEF forces. Ok, HOW! Those are self-willed pilots inside those mecha, not drones. - Someone care to explain why the Tokugawa did not completely overwhelm the Invid forces with mecha, considering it can normally carry up to 1000 starfighters? Add in more due to the extra Quick-Launch Bays on the sides. - The Tokugawa is now classed as Super Dimensional Battleship-06. Huh? Notes: - Karen Penn and Jack Baker now both hold the rank of Commander. - Karen is no longer a pilot and is bucking for command authority as apparently either the XO of the Tokugawa or at least one of its senior bridge staff. - The Tokugawa retained part of the UEF post-Macross paint scheme: dark blue. Boy, the hits keep on coming.

Umm, sorry, but Sera tells the Regiss that the Invid are outnumbered by the REF in Robotech. The Invid lack the ability to wake up their people en masse because of the FoL issue. Well, they weren't gonna play tiddily-winks with her. I imagine a couple of blasts from a Destabilizer would have ended her career as Queen Bee. Now, whether that is the case in Mospeada is entirely a different matter. Yes, I would say that Robotech has a far more plausible explanation.

MGREXX, shut the hell up. Anyway, the music for Mospeada just simply doesn't cut it for me.

I'm going to ask the same thing I did at StarDestroyer.net when I saw this: Ok, whats the point? This was run along with images from Africa showing children with hacked off limbs and the like. Is this supposed to be a reminder of Africa being the shithole it is that the UN allowed happen by kicking mercenaries out that had stopped the raping, dismembering a-holes who did this? Is it a statement against the US because of Iraq?

Anime geekdom just got one massive leg up on Star Trek geekdom.

From left to right: Perytonian (mutant conehead devils), Garudan (they're vulpines who live in something equivalent to the Australian Aborgines DreamTime), Haydonite (servitor androids to the ancient Haydon species), Spherisian (living crystals), Praxian (baseline human Amazon warrior race) and in the back is a Karbarran (ursinoids who are the second most advanced spacefarers among The Sentinel races). They look better than they originally did, except for the Perytonians.

No clue. He also looks relatively young to be 35. Guess everyone in the UEEF has got a good plastic surgeon.

Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles review The Good - The United Earth Expeditionary Force, as per General Reinhardt's comments, didn't arrive at Tirol right away as in the original conception of The Sentinels, thus removing a massive continuity hole. - The Wolfe flashback semi-rigid armour from Eulogy is in use, removing a technical continuity violation. - The United Earth Expeditionary Force still has at least 1 surviving Tristar-class Cruiser Leader and the first ship of the Tokugawa-class Super Carrier line still in service. This was a minor bone to the Southern Cross fans, and nicely done, considering how much crap we've taken. - General Edward's stolen ship appears to be based partially on the Tristar-class, as there is no direct Mospeada influence on the hull design. She's also almost pure warship, which denotes Southern Cross heritage. - The Sentinels got a major facelift (well, except for the Perytonian Coneheads and Spherisians), the best of the bunch being the Haydonites who now have a Kosh of Babylon 5-vibe. That at least falls into line of their being a servitor race to an ancient race. Thankfully the Praxians no longer appear to be amazon chicks with serious thyroid/silicone enhancement problems. - The 'main' characters got a facelift, the best being Jack Baker. Second best is for Lisa Hayes. - The mainline uniform is based on the Colonel Wolfe flashback uniform from Eulogy, instead of the goofy half-Southern Cross spandex. The Mars Base uniform also appears, partially fused with the Wolfe uniform as well as slightly with Major Carpenter's Pioneer Mission uniform from Outsiders. Whats more, this new uniform style more closely matches a pattern 'ancestor' with the UEF Southern Cross uniform, so you can almost see where they both emerged from. - Lisa calls for raising the shields of the SDF-3, bearing out the dialogue from Outsiders when Major Carpenter's aid told him their shields were completely down. Whats more, its not a Pin-Point Barrier, so no 'copyright' issue. - The colour pallete for the comic is wonderful, probably the best ever for a Robotech comic, though arguably the best artwork overall was Fred Perry's Rolling Thunder from Antarctic Press. The Bad - Invid still have the goofy Scorpion warship, which is a flagrant continuity violation in addition to being totally retarded, up there with a transforming warship that holds a gun. It gets the award for being most stupid in my opinion. - Invid Inorganics still exist, despite proof of kinship with Bioroids. Also a major continuity violation. They should be Tirolian police drone mecha. - Shadow Technology is now a product of Invid science, which comes completely out of left field. Not only is this a major technical continuity violation, it makes no sense whatsoever. The one species shown to possess stealth and protoculture sensing technology from the very begining were the Robotech Masters, implying the Invid on Earth acquired their protoculture targeting sensors from fallen Tirolian tech. - When Edwards is making his escape, the Shadow Fighters he deploys use an active stealth system (Im guessing) eventhough the Shadow Tech supposedly (as per comic book dialogue) shields the energy signature of the fighter. The active stealth is correct (the Invid have more then protoculture sensors in Robotech), but the dialogue in the comic blows holes in this. - The SDF-3 (which Ive heard one person refer to as 'The Space Turd') is still wrapped up in the exoskeleton of a Zentraedi battlecruiser. Why? Whats more, she was a contemporary of the UEF battle fleet, so she should have design similarities to the Tokugawa-class Super Carriers, Tristar-class Cruiser Leaders, Ardennes-class Battlecruisers and Nelson-class Destroyers. In other words, she should look like a ship from Southern Cross. The Ugly - Lisa Hayes, at least 57 yrs of age, is just now getting pregnant? WTF? - Edwards looks like Bizarro from Superman, as observed by Rtsurfer a while back. I expected him to demand a 'Utility Belt to defeat the Superfriends with!' - Rick Hunter now has a serious juicing habit. He looks like fragging Sammy Sossa. - The goofy Haydonite Spacesuit was retained. Why? - The Invid Brain, despite the fact its referred to as a Protoculture Sensor in The Fortress, and obviously a reverse engineered design of the Masters' Living Protoculture from Dana in Wonderland, still sits there burbling in its tank. One wonders how Edwards managed to get it to talk about anything. - The industrial planet of Karbarra is now rebuilding/refitting the Expeditionary Fleet, eventhough the UEEF has access to at least a partially refurbished Little Luna (The Factory Satellite) as well as the four pods cutaway from the main: Space Station Liberty (Earth-Sun L5 orbit) and the three as yet unnamed Space Station's that all resemble what was referred to as the Robotech Repair Factory. - Rick Hunter's need to blow up the Earth with the Neutron-S Missiles has now been established, and its completely contrived. The slow burn to Darth Vader makes more sense as opposed to the cliched Revenge of the Sith version. Whats more, its apparent they Expeditionary Force didn't have any of them with them, which is an apparent dialogue continuity violation because its for damn sure logical that these were the cruisers being built on the Factory Satellite Exedore refers to in Viva Miriya. - Exedore now looks like a midget Robotech Fleet Commander. - Lang is still f*cking designing stuff. Who the f*ck ever heard of one person being able to match or exceed the capacity of dozens of military-industrial design firms or think-tanks? Yes, he designed the Reflex Furnace, big honkin deal. This is crap from the novels that made no sense to begin with and was retained needlessly. Whats more, Lang should be pushing up daisies or close to it. He would be 70. Notes: - Max and Miriya are not present. Could be, as some speculated, they took command of the division at Point K on Earth. It would bear out since Scott says in Enter Marlene that the leaders were hand picked by Admiral Hunter. - The UES Tokugawa's refit added at least 2 Alpha Quicklaunch bay and Ikazuchi-style sponsons with extra reaction engines. The improved engine block should make performance over the old design quite interesting. My guess is the Quicklaunch bays are double size considering the Tokugawa's are 1120m. That should put her fighter complement at about 1100, give or take. - Jack Baker is now Wolf Leader, referring not to Wolfe's Pack (from Eulogy) but Wolf Team (from Boobytrap). Whats more, his Alpha-Beta combo is in Jack Archer's colour scheme. Sadly, there was no Squadron Insignia. Baker also appears to be the CAG of the SDF-3. Overall, not very satisfying and certainly an absolute continuity nightmare.

Behind the times there Primus, because we still have the words 'The Tv series trumps all'.

Lets put it this way, Macek was under the delusion that The Masters War took place in 2024 and that The New Generation happened in 2030. Funny, Dana Sterling looks kinda grown up for someone that would be all of 11 yrs old in 2024. His original intent doesn't mean didilly. The new comics dont mean diddilly until a new version of The Sentinels is animated. I will say, in the defense of Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles, that at least the aliens got a decent retcon design. The Karbarrans look like an ursinoid species, the Garudans are coloured and shaped more like vulpines while the Haydonites gave me this creepy Babylon 5 Kosh-like vibe. The main problem with PtShC is its not going to please anyone. Too much of it relies on the old McKinney novel Rubicon mixed in with some stuff that simply is baffling.

Yep, this is one of those whopper continuity issues. Hunter and Hayes should have had a kid by then, cause if he was shooting blanks for that many years, she would have demanded en-vitro fertilization.

Malarkey. He didn't write Robotech, despite what people believe. His opinion on the matter is about as useful as a bucket of warm spit.

Which is all gobbledegook. Its also bad technobabble. Protoculture is not a process, as you elaborate from The Graphic Novel, its apparent in the Tv series its a substance of some kind. Its used in power generation, but we also know that its not the actual fuel itself, since that would be impossible. Its also not a reaction mass. Whats more, by the time of the 2nd Robotech War, its usage in civilian sectors is evident because they have a hover-roadster (Sean Phillip's car in Love Song) and borne out later in Curtain Call when the cola van driver says he gets a ration of protoculture, obviously use in his van.

Sorry Graham, no it is not. Protoculture is a substance derived from the Flower of Life. It has something to do with energy generation, but we don't know what as that is never (thankfully) explained nor is it necessary. No, but prolonged exposure to the pollen will likely render a human sterile (why else would the Masters need to clone themselves?).

Hmm.... had not checked, but there are also pics of Rick: and Janice Em:

I'm guessing the story begins after 21st Mars Division got butchered in 2042, so Lisa would be 57.

Umm...there would be trouble emulating Mikimoto's style for one thing.

And here is a pic of the new version of Lisa Hayes. I will say she looks far better than her Sentinels incarnation.

Umm, no, he didn't like it because he felt it was written solely for hardcore Robotech fans.