Jasonc

So, you mean the thousands of dollars I spent on all the variations of Robotech on DVD and Blu-Ray, I didn't have to spend??? (J/K) LMAO

It doesn't suck really. If you're gonna get labled, usually those are the ignorant ones. It usually tells you which people don't have the knowledge or mentality to have a decent conversation. I still think MW simply gets blamed for starting their own garbage crusades, simply cause they can't face their own shortfalls. It's been done before, and will probably be done again. I really don't care what they like to say. We don't need ammunition for them, they simply hand deliver it over here.

Yep, got my shipping notice today as well. This toy looks like an absolute blast to play with. I'll be up later playing with this thing when it comes. Hopefully by thursday as well. Thanks for the pics guys. Those pics sell this thing alone.

There was one incident several years ago where one of the MW members asked the HG staff how they felt bootlegging the 3 seperate series. Needless to say, I know that stirred the pot like no one could believe, and I know a large feud started with that. Don't really know if that started all of it or not, but I think it was a build up of things that got that question asked in the first place. Because there are some people who have some knowledge, and some status withing the niche boards, and because a lot of rt.com old fans come here, I'm sure HG likes to come here and check out the threads here. From what I've noticed, and this is just my researched observation, Macrossworld is only a portion of a large fanbase. There are many other sites dedicated to Macross talk, although, not as organized as here. Also, most of them are in Japanese language, unlike here. Although this site does represent a small portion of the Macross fanbase, its influence is pretty prominent. I mean, Graham has connections to Yamato, and our opinions do seem to count here as far as toys (too a certain extent). That's probably something that bugs some of the RT extremists, as they can't even get a decent t-shirt. As for the seemingly risen strife between both sides, I think this time it's more on the RT extremists side. The spreading of some strange idea that HG is in total control of Macross and can do what they want with the designs and banning anyone who disagrees is dividing their fans, and then those Robotech fans are getting labled as Macross purists. So, it seems like their own "civil war" is somehow being blamed on Macross fans. I guess they'd rather have someone else to blame than blame themselves. Funny, that does seem to fit the Robotech staff at the helm and how they operate.

"I do this for all Robotech fans..." While I don't condone the pieing idea, even if it was done again, I don't think it sent a message to them the first time. Perhaps it's the reason why their news is more sparse than ever (not that it was out in any regular frequency anyways). They are probably trying to save themselves from more incidents like that. But, I say, we all go out for some pie

I never knew RTsurfer, but I'm really good friends with Darkwater. We don't really ever talk about Robotech at all. If we ever did, it was more to talk about the drama that was going on, as we both talk to other people who are still into the RT franchise somewhat. When Macross Frontier was airing, a group of us would get together and watch those episodes, so that group has been transitioning to Macross, but for the lot of them, Robotech has pretty much died, and not even a live action movie is gonna bring it back. Basically, biting the hand that feeds is HG's mentality, and they're running out of giving hands. Then again, that's an easy thing to do since HG isn't reciprocating the respect.

Nah, it's nothing more than a double standard. It's never a problem until they are looking to ban you, or you are in their radar. Just chaulk up another mark on them.

I don't think you'd have to worry too much about legal issues. If you're making these with no profit, and at such limited numbers, I don't think it'll be an issue. If it is, you'll get a C&D order,,,basically just a "stop doing that" letter. In any case, I'd be delighted to support this cause.

In regards to the first statement... HG, uses that other "safety clause" to not unveil the true facts. Ask a question about rights, and they throw in the use of all Robotech. Dig further, and supposedly, they "aren't allowed to say". The fact is, is that it's not divulging anything about the specifics of their contracts, but moreso divulging the conclusions of them. I would say it's clever, but so many people, including many Robotech fans are seeing through it, that it's really hindering them. While it does seem that more fans are showing a true love for Robotech by expressing it in websites and what not that are unrestricted, it also seems like the franchise is even more bleek than before the news of of RTSC came out. For people who can't stand Robotech because of it's dissection of the 3 original series, the news seems good due to the fact that fans are destroying their own fanbase. opposition need only watch. For Robotech fans like Whamhammer, Zen72, and several others, keep your fan love, but I wouldn't support the franchise anymore. There needs to be a line that is drawn that you decide you just aren't going to cross. For me, it was Shadow Chronicles, where I decided I just wasn't gonna give my money to it. The blue Beta was my last hoopla for anything, and that was simply out of principle. I, along with Wham, and a few others, worked hard in getting word out to at least have them notice that the Beta needed to be made. yet, after enough people talked, here it is. Aside from that blue beta in my hands, I do not support the franchise in anyway. I suggest all you fans of RT who are unsatisfied with the BS, and half-@ssed product simply give it up. If you love the characters, the mecha, etc, the 3 original series are just as interesting, if not better. Then again, it's just my opinion, but you need to do what you feel is right.

Cool, thanks. I'm gonna get an issue since I can go to Kinokuniya in a bit.

What NewType issue was that, that had the new delta wing fastpack???

I have to say that I absolutely love the VA-3 designs. I'm odd here, but the VA-3 is one of my favorite valk designs because of the retro look to it, not to mention the fact that it's more of a valk designed for different mission types. You guys definitely have great ideas for color schemes. Keep em all coming. Hopefully if I get time ever, I'll do a few of my own.

That would be awesome. There are so many things that groups of people would like, but simply will not get produced due to lack of mass interests, or the perception of. I too, have always wanted one of these. From what I understand, they now have a 3D scanner, and will scan an object, and create a 3D image of the item. Then can be reproduced. If you get this up and running, I'd suggest putting this inside the Toy forum as well once it's up. I'd be happy to pay for stuff that could be made. Thanks for posting here, and welcome to the forums and your first post.

Whoever went to all the trouble to create that post just wasted their time. But, as I was reading through the thread, Bowspearer had a couple interesting things to say. In one of his last posts, there's a key element there that everyone seemed to miss. It basically sums up that the ability for HG to use Macross designs in new derivative works moreso on the "pro" side of this argument are fan speculation. Since it's been pointed out that BW has put up (now archived) statements saying they have the IP rights, and HG only skirts the question by inserting vague statements replacing the word Macross with Robotech, it seems more that the burden of proof falls on HG. This is something they aren't going to do, simply because they don't have the rights. If BW has made their side clear, Carl Macek has made it clear, and from what HG's legal team seems to point out, HG cannot, and will not use Macross designs. In regards to the statement that the HG staff makes "we can use everything Robotech"...Well, that isn't a lie, but to what extent? The vague statement is true if they take the original footage and use it in a commercial, or decide to use all the original footage to make some weird side story. But, that would be false if using it in the terms of being able to take those same Macross designs, and making new footage using those said designs. I'm still surprised the staff at HG still let's this divide their fandom by not just clearing the air, but somehow, I think they feel it'd hurt their fragile position. They may feel it'd let their fans know that they aren't the all in control company they think they are, and that it'd burst a lot of fan's bubbles to know that Macross isn't coming back in any production work as it was imagined back in the day.

Simply Hawwwwt!!! Been putting away for this one and scrounging up for it.

Which is the reason why I don't buy any of the stuff, and haven't in awhile. Being a fan, and having hope is good and all, but if it's not followed by anything to support positive change, or convey a sense of urgency in fixing the problems, HG isn't gonna know what to do. I wouldn't mind seeing a good anime feature from HG (glad it'd be Macross free for the most part). Likewise, if it's a garbage show, I'm not gonna buy it. I don't buy the product, and I don't buy the movies. The problem is that there aren't enough Robotech fans who think like that though. Most will buy stuff simply cause it has a Robotech lable on it. I'm sure they'd buy poo on a stick if it had the name Robotech on it. That's why I don't think anything will change from the staff. They'll make money putting out a shoddy product, and way too many fans wanting a sense of nostalgia are gonna gobble it up. I don't waste my time with any of the new stuff at all, and a part of why I had a falling out with the staff.

It's gonna spur debate because RT fans don't have a lot of things to believe in. Yeah, there's a LAM supposedly coming and Shadow Rising maybe sometime afterward or around the same time, but there's no word of either, and fans get fickle. They want Robotech to be what it once was, with a staff that is really inexperienced and unable to deliver, so, I think we'll see quite several many of these debates pop up like summer wildfires.

How did that conclusion come from the statement of saying it's ok for people to simply enjoy Robotech for what it is??? While I'm not expecting the most intelligent response here based on this response I'm quoting, given your simplistic conclusion, you might as well say that about a great many things, like Star Wars, Transformers, and arguably Macross. Moving on... Found it http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...mp;pagenumber=2 Supposedly, I'm all over the boards starting trouble. I must be feared over there, like the boogie man. I can just hear him saying "quick ban that guy, he must be jasonc, I'm scared!" Cause you know, that's all I do, I troll. Afterall, I'm one of the Macross Purists who loves to create dissention amongst the Robotech camp (sarcasm for the ignorant). Here's the quote from what PTH said Since he reads on here, let me give him a little background. Unlike those that just speculate, I used to ask a lot of "hard" questions of both Tom and Tommy, and occasionally Steve. I spoke to Tommy on a semi-regular basis for a short time, while Tom Bateman was a room mate of mine at my house. So, with that, there isn't fan speculation I put out on the table. And I'm glad Memo and I have enough friendship to know that I wouldn't go on the site there to cause trouble. So, how do I know that the legal team wasn't comfortable using the word Zentraedi??? Simple, word from the staff they support and PTH claims to have said that HG owns all the rights to use the original designs in new derivitive works. So then, how is there a difference in what I'm providing than with what he believe? Perhaps he should stop trying to manipulate the words the staff say into what he wants to believe. Just because something isn't included in a statement doesn't automatically include it in the argument. So far, HG staff has never said anything definitive to say they can make new derivitive works from SDF macross or not. They usually skirt the question by inserting the word Robotech and that they can use anything Robotech, which basically says nothing. It avoids the "new derivitive" phrase. You'd think that if you were in control like HG, if you did have that right, you'd broadcast it everywhere to let people know, especially to save the argument. That's not disclosing specifics of the Tats/HG contracts, but would be stating the conclusion of those and the court rulings. But, since they haven't, I take what I've been told by them and what logic tells me, and I think the conclusion is quite clear.

Graham, have these results been given to Yamato yet? So far, if the VF-2SS or the VF-4 are made, or one after the other, I'd be really happy to see those. I'm still a fan of the VA-3, and although I know a lot of people would buy it out of sheer Macross enthusiasm, I'm a realist. So, bring on the VF-2SS and the VF-4, and I'll buy two of each for sure. Those have been dreams here for how long now???

See, and I think it's fine to be a Robotech fan, and enjoy it for the story it is. I think that since Macrossworld has a lot to do with Mospeada as well, I find nothing wrong with fans who just appreciate the mecha and designs coming here to talk and look at the site. We wouldn't be any better of a site here if we did the same things that rt.com does in ostrisizing fans who don't think the same, or like Macross only. While there is an occasional backlash from some idiot on the boards here from time to time, simply being able to appreciate what you like and having a place to do so should be simple and fun. When it stops being fun, open all the exit doors. Wham, I think it's just fine that you're a Robotech fan. If you didn't have any interest in Macross (which I know you have some), although I'd find it a little odd, it'd still be alright if you were here. There's people that I only see on this thread, and some that I only see on Mospeada discussions, so that's OK. It's a good thing to see people here have the diversity that they have, yet coexist in one virtual space. It was one reason why as a mod on rt.com, I tried not to go into the Macross/southern cross/Mospeada forums too often. There's way too much judgement on those boards, and it seems like just posting in there about nothing slanderous can lable you. I hope you don't think that you have to defend your fandom here. While you've already gotten questions about why and so-on, you have to understand that people here can be cautious and need to test the waters when it comes to new people. There's been some bad fish out there from rt.com, and from I believe the Transformers sites that have come in running a muck.

Oh yeah, definitely can't forget those tools as well. The difference though, is that the Macross Extremists that are out there who are the bad apples are not in positions where they ban people for difference in opinion, where your so-called fan speculation is another mans truth. They are mostly outcasts, rogue, or simply just tools on their own, and most of us here on these boards pay them no mind. For HG and the extremists, it's celebrated when you're obnoxious, and being the same sort of tool. And, I can see why good people like JT, Whamhammer, and Happy Penguins now come here to discuss it. Back in the day, I used to throw these huge "Robotech" BBQ parties at my house. They were a way to celebrate the group and the fans all being friends and getting together. what really made those stop after about 4 years was the fact that it became more of an HG presentation, where they wanted to do slideshows, and talk about their demographics of the 80s. I don't even remember the parties really being too much about Robotech, but just hanging out with good friends. As Shadow Chronicles came out, it became more and more apparent (already was to a few of us) that there was a serious mis-management at HG, and that it was starting to stir up trouble amongst the fans. I stopped being an indirect marketing tool for them, and when all the get togethers ceased from me and a few others like Razorx here, the fandom really warped into what it is now. People we used to call friennds are now some of these extremists, who claim to be these "Robotech Purists." That's an oxymoron (spelling) if I've ever heard one. Then, things are supposed to simply fall back into place as if all the world is right, simply because a LAM is coming out? If the fandom and the staff aren't careful, they're just gonna have a bunch of people who have no real clue about the meat and potatoes of the show, but only about legal mess, and they'll debate all the technical stuff that has no real meaning to what made the show good. As Pete has pointed out, for their 25th anniversary, you don't see hardly anything celebrated, just a massive debate on who's right and wrong. At times I wish it could still be the same over at the camp there, when there were good discussions, and exciting things to talk about. It seems now more of a pissing contest on who can do the most damage. Any sense of a deep conversation is quickly flushed out with argument and someone getting banned. Really a sad state, but this is what they want, what they chose for themselves. Discussing licensing and debate it here is one thing. This is an isolated topic that stays here for the most part. It's not a pandemic that is feasting on every member. To see the debate still loom over again over there is just more reason to stay away. One noobie started the other thread, and instead of tactfully shutting it down, mods are at it again, banning people for having a different view of the facts than what they believe (turns out the person was banned for giving a pretty accurate statement as well), and basically keeping the perpetual ball of crap rolling. The staff over there really need to get mods with screws on right, cause as of now, it seems their mods are helping to generate not only a rift between their own fandom, but more enemies over here.

Something I picked up from your friend PTH, Seto. Does this guy know when Robotech was first made??? This guy makes me laugh. I mean c'mon. Here's a true bottom feeder that is trying to have a $.25 conversation with a $0.05 brain. It was specifically said to me, along with several others, that the word Zentraedi was left out of the dialogue of Shadow Chronicles because the legal team was scared to use it. They felt they didn't have the rights to use the term, and it was omitted. I love how this guy with no clue pretends to understand things. Using the word Zentraedi didn't "fit the momen"? WTF are you talking about, and who gave you that excuse to fuel your flawed P.O.V. Talk about fan speculation. I see he's not banned for his fan speculation, as long as it fits the fans with no brain for themselves. I love the responses regarding the post afterwards that try to educate the ignorant on intellectual property vs. common terms and symbols. Space fold is a scientific term. The Jolly Roger is a common symbol signifying pirates, the jolly rogers, and in other places. Protoculture is a scientific term as well. I also saw how you now get banned on rt.com by the mods if you don't believe as they do. If you don't, you are now guilty of "fan speculation" which is now a bannable offense. But if you speculate on the side of HG, then it's fact? Ugh, it's sad to think that some of the people who used to have things all together and be fun to hang around have resorted to driving away and splitting the fandom. I've never seen such a split in the fandom over there as before, and while I think it's cool to see some strictly rt.com people now on here, it's a bad sign that things are going awry. I'd love for there to be a nice balance between the 2 (probably now 3) camps. There's the Macross fans, the Robotech fans, and the Robotech extremists. The Robotech extremists hate the Macross fans, macross fans can't stand the Robotech extremists, and the Robotech fans are stuck, sometimes not being liked by both, or being tolerated by both. I would say it'd be wise for HG to express what rights they do have without the confusing sales pitch lines like "we own all of Robotech" and just state what they can/can't use, and whatnot. But I honestly think they like the division in their camps, and they like the fact that they think it gives them so much publicity. Hmmm, I think HG, and the way the moderators have been acting, are bringing more fans over into the original series and away from their B.S.

What's the saying, gentle as a dove, but wise as a serpent. If there's a reason for you to feel cautious, always go with your gut instinct. Perhaps I'll listen to some of Doug's new show tomorrow. Anyone got a link or is it on the same site. Also, I'll be listening to more of JT's podcast tomorrow after I drop my car off for repair (car accident on the freeway). BTW, is there any Macross specific podcast? If not, I suggest a few of us get together and start one.

The Bandai footage looks much better, I like how the lines seem much smoother, not as hard and contrasted as the Animeigo. Not that Animeigo did a bad job, but there is the balance of refinement and overdone.

Yeah, I remember that being mentioned. After listening to the JT podcast, it made me realize that I really have nothing against Robotech fans (how could I when I, in fact, like the "original" airing of it). What the podcast made me realize is that even some of the level headed fans can't stand the way some of their own act like Robotech in their perception, is the absolute gospel, and that's the way it goes. I also like the fact that he can read through much of the B.S. that the staff spits out as gospel, and those fans that are a little too fanatic take as the undeniable truth. Case in point, at Macrossworld con 09, I asked Tommy Yune a simple straight forward question about what he thought the chances of the LAM coming out was. Now, knowing that there isn't a budget, no finished story, no cast, no full staff, and no green light for shooting, I asked because of certain delays they've had. To my surprise, he told me 98% positive it would happen. Now, even when asked for the non RT spokesman percentage, he still insisted this, even with so many uncertainties floating around. Several days later, I saw a post in which someone who happened to be listening say it as the absolute gospel. Him and I kinda got into a debate about it, simply because 98% just isn't a feasible number when nothings really done. His basis for the whole argument??? Cause Tommy said. Do some of these fans think for themselves. Some do, some don't, but what can you do? I would've believed a 75-80% chance, heck, even 85%, but not 98%. Then to have some brainless RT fan start posting his "findings" as some area 51 secret he found, and quote is as truth is just stupid. What is sad, is that is the type of fans Robotech is searching for these days. Fans who don't give a flip about what's really out there, and what maybe hard facts, just what HG staff say. Then, as in more cases that keep popping up, the fans who don't comply are "Macross Purists", and not true fans. It's sad when you think about it. True fans will do what they can to save a franchise they support when it's going down the drain, IMHO. Someone along for the ride will just let everything go. In that statement, it seems that Robotech is being replaced by people who aren't fans at all, but by people content in it sinking. While most of the people here may not care, I'm on the fence. Not in a perplexed and complex manner, but moreso in the fact that while I was a Macross fan before Robotech was even over here, it was Robotech who helped make it understandable, and it was Robotech who gave me a love for Mospeada, and an appreciation for Southern Cross. The VA's were great, the music was great, and while we nitpick it to death here, there are some merits to it, and it does have it's place in helping bring Macross to many here who would have no clue about it otherwise. Yes, I'm probably rambling, but that's what good medicine will do when you're in pain, hahaha.