VFTF1

Yes. Episode 6 today Unless I'm mistaken - maybe this will be the riviera episode? ... We'll see - I can never keep them straight no matter how many times I watch them in sequence Anyways - as usual - if someone else wants to have a crack at posting an extensive review - feel free. I'll probably get to it tonight my time. Pete

Lies - like most schools. Bucket loads of oversimplifications mixed with lies and mediocrity. This is one of the things I love most about EVA - it shows that schools are just holding cells for naive children who adults will later exploit in their insane plots while teaching them fairy tales and lies and fabrications in these schools that have nothing to do with reality. I like how NGE hits the nail on the head with its' view of modern schooling. Well - we do kind of see this in reverse, when EVA-01 "gives birth" to Shinji after reducing him to LCL goop. So maybe you're right. Pete

Maybe it's because I've lived in foriegn countries and heard people speaking twisted english in so many possible variations that it would make your head explode that I'm finding myself quite good at translating Memo into comprehensible english. Memo says: Pete's Translation: Macrossworld is not a place where anybody can do what they want (therefore it is restrictive). The way in which Macross world is restrictive is that it doesn't allow the contents of this thread to become an open topic in on the entire webpage because that would create a mess. Also, I guess since this is a Macross forum, then the topic of this thread (Robotech) would have no place in a Macross forum outside of this specific thread, and therefore Macrossworld is restrictive insofar as it restricts itself to Macross - except in this thread. That's how I understood what Memo wrote Pete

Wanted: You Read on. Hi guys, Here's the low down: after two years of running an online store, I'm shutting down my business and converting my website into an online journal of anime. The website is: www.dyrl.pl Starting January 01 2009, the prices will dissapear, as will all the things that make it a store. The format will, however, remain. In the place of "Product of the Month" will be "Topic of the Month" and the categories will still be anime related, albeit when you click them, you won't see products, you will see articles about anime. The page heading will change to something along the lines of "Bringing Bunka to a Galaxy Near you" - Draft Mission Statement The mission of the website will be the mission of the Megaroad 1. As Captain Global said to Misa Hayese - the Colony Ships are meant to spread human culture throughout the galaxy and save humanity from the fate of the Zendradi. That will be our goal - to spread the ideals of Macross, anime and Otaku culture throughout the galaxy that is the internet. Dyrl.pl will NOT be a forum. Macrossworld Forum is already an excellent forum, and there are plenty of anime related forums on the internet. It also won't be a database. It will be an online Journal that treats of anime and otaku culture, with a special place for Macross which will be at the heart of its' mission. The Journal WIll be interactive insofar as readers will be invited to comment on particular articles by writing letters to the Editor, and also, we will naturally encourage fans of all anime genre to submit articles. The Journal will strive to publish the most thoughtful articles on anime and otaku culture possible, and we would like to be an international journal with articles by fans from Europe, Asia, the United States and anywhere else in the world where there is an Otaku, a keyboard, and a plastic doll in a school uniform. MANAGEMENT I own the website - therefore I am Administrator. I will strive to be a fair, inclusive Administrator who hopes to work with people with a passion for anime who are looking to take advantage of the Website to make it their home to spread our common love. I believe in granting people the maximum of artistic and creative freedom because only when they feel that they are fulfilling their own sense of excellence will the Journal as a whole be excellent. Editor-in-Chief: I have asked Gubaba to be Editor in Chief, and he has promised to quit his job, drop everything and slave away at making this the best online Journal possible. kindly told me that he will help out to the extent that his time allows him to. Draft Outline & WHO I SPECIFICALY AM LOOKING FOR Below - the initial Categories I have come up with, in no particular order, which will also give people a good idea of what I have in mind for the Journal: 1. Letters to the Editor editor Outside opinions can be expressed in the form of "Letters to the Editor" - and there will be a category called "Letters to the Editor." When vistors click the "Letters to the Editor" Category, they will see letters from readers. The letters that are published will be the ones that we recieve over email (the website has its' own email address and email host page where people can write to us) and that are deemed quality letters that are worthy of publication and add insight to the Journal as a whole. Assuming anybody ever writes to us - I would like someone to sift through the mail. If we get lots of long letters, pick the best ones for publication. If we get a lot of short commentary - maybe create a composition of short comments - whatever. This actually might not even require any specific person... 2. Topic of the Month YouTube Editor This is now "product of the month" - it will become topic of the month and will be the feature - different every month, with some nice new picture and a special Youtube video about the topic of the month. Therefore, I need somebody to maybe be in charge of being the YouTube Video Editor - and they will hopefully be able to prepare one new YouTube video per month for the journal to go with our "Topic of the Month." In any case - having some thing interesting on the Youtube video segment of the website would be great. If you are a film buff, know how to upload youtube stuff and have a zillion great ideas - this is a job for you! 3. Galaxy Network Category editor This will be Gubaba's special category -all for him. He can post whatever he want there. Book reviews, anime reviews, comments about translating anything that you're working on - whatever. He will enjoy 100% creative freedom here. 4. Pimping in Akihabara Category editor This will HOPEFULLY be Save's category where he can write about otaku culture in Japan as he experiences is. I HOPE he agrees to help - if not him - then I hope SOMEBODY who lives in Japan now and is into Otaku culture will agree to write a column about the up-to-date every day life in Otaku-central. I know Renato also apparently lives in Japan - and of course I would be delighted if he could also give us some specific articles too. There's not really a limit in terms of how many people can do this. The more the merrier of course. However - at the very least, I would love Save's permission to use "Pimpin in Akihabara" as the Category Title - and since that would kind of require someone to be...um...pimpin in Akihabara...then it would be nice if Save could write something about his pimpin' life expierience there once in a while. 5. En Francais/Dutch/German/Etc editor I want to find somebody who will write about anime and its' permutations in France, where Macross is relatively popular, as is St. Seya and other anime as well. Naturally - if you live anywhere else in Europe - I know we have some members from the Netherlands - that would be cool too. Again - as in the case of the Japan category - it doesn't have to be just one person. But I have a particular keen interest in France since France seems to have a special love of anime...though knowing the French...they won't want to write anything in english ...but ...one can dream. Live in Europe? Wanna help? Then help! 6. Specific Anime Categories (Macross, NGE, Gurren Lagann etc etce etc) editor- Ideally, we will get lots of different submissions from time to time to fill these categories up with as many insightful and interesting articles as possible 8. Super Robot Overview editor This is not in the categories, but it appears here: http://dyrl.pl/oferta.html, and will have the appropriate title "S.R.O" for short so people can find it easily at the top of the page between "FAQ" and "Help." This will be a photographic journal which will sometimes present model/figure/toy reviews, fan comics or whatever other creative form might be concieved. I can do this - but it's also open to submissions. For example - if you're Gunpla nutt and would like to make a photogallery of your experience building a particular model - that would be a great topic. The "Super Robot" part of "Super Robot Overview" shouldn't be seen as refering specifically to 'Super Robots' in contradistinction to Real Robots - but rather I mean "super!" as in "cool" ... unless anybody has a better idea for a title - then please suggest it! 9. USAnime editor Just like the Japan/Europe category - this category will be dedicated to anime in the United States - how things look, what's happening. Again - there's no set format here. I don't expect you to be an investigative reporter. If you're busy and can only write about sitting in your mom's basement watching a DVD rental of Clash of the Bionoids and lammenting that it's not DYRL - fine. Write that. But try to find diverse subjects to post at least once a month please. And again - doesn't have to just be one person - but ideally it would be nice to have someone who is the editor of this category and commited to managing it. 10. International/Other Suggestions If you live in a country I have not mentioned and would like to write about the state of anime in your country or if you have a great idea for a category that I haven't thought of - please volunteer it and be the editor for it. YOUR REWARD SHOULD YOU ACCEPT A POST AT THE JOURNAL In the words of Borat: You can come my house in Kazahstan and you can use my sister. Seriously - that's the best I can do If you're ever in Poland and want a place to crash and somebody to go drinking with - consider it done Obviously this will be a labor of love for me - and for anyone else who is willing to help. If you want to help out - please post here. I want to get this off the ground in January - the first issue will probably be very not glamorous - but it would be nice to at least have a team of enthusiastic people who want to do some writing and who will see this as a great opportunity to create something that helps spread Bunka throughout the universe! Thanks, Pete

Seto: Of course you're not. You think I am? But would you prefer that he keep trying to prove how you deserved to be banned etc etc etc? Seto - look at it this way dude: I repeat - we have 39 pages - this entire thread can actually be labeled "The Seto comes to tell us how unjust robotech.com is and we all lay it on and spit on robotech.com and Memo and all of those crazy fcukers thread." Seriously. You can doubt Memo - but do you doubt ME? Do you think I'm not being sincere? Look where Memo is posting. He's basically arrived at www.Memoscuksballs.com and seems to be posting and not going anywhere and trying to get along with us. Take that into account. Or here's another way to think of it: MEMO IS ON YOUR TURF NOW SETO. So - you think Memo is a terrible mod, you think he can't run a website worth jack? You think his way of moderating a conversation sucks bananas? You think he has no leadership skills? Well --- Who do you think has more authority in this thread ? YOU or Memo? I wager that in this thread, you have the backing of EVERYBODY and Memo has NOBODY to back him - NOBODY. Yet he posts. So - what are you going to do? You want to prove that the way Memo ran things was lame - prove it by not arguing with him in this thread, prove it by demonstrating how we do things here. Prove it by posting some of those great argumens you always posted in robotech.com and posted here as well. Nobody is going to ban you here. Memo can't do anything to you here but try to argue with your logic and your facts. So - let's show Memo how it should be done. Better yet - YOU be an example to Memo and show him how its' done. Be kind to the guy who was totally horrible to you because now you have the power and he doesn't. That's all I'm saying. Pete

Seto: I have read all of your posts Seto. Seriously. If you feel like the fact that I haven't written 10 pages commentaries on them means I've ignored them: not true. My silence about them is a sign that I AGREE and have nothing to add. Nobody doubts your version of events. That's not the point. Nobody doubts Hitler invaded Poland either. But it would be pretty stupid to say that when Germans and Polish people sit down and have a beer together, it's because they've forgotten history or ignore it. Same thing applies here. You win. You're right. The policies at rt.com suck, the censorship sucks etc etc etc. Memo was a big part of that. But Memo isn't a computer virus - he's a person. He's here now and he's taking some steps. He's walking into the lions den. I don't expect you to forgive and forget - but I personally feel there is no reason to tar and feather him. He didn't have to come here, he did. So - now that he's here - I can't make fun of him or call him a 100% bad dude. If Memo were truly a big time a-hole - he wouldn't be participating in a thread where so many people have so much bad views of him. I know. We know. You might think it's faux touchy-feely BS but I think it's better than all the back-and-forth BS. No sense re-hashing the argument. Memo saying sorry doesn't erase the past - it just stops repeating the past ad-infinitum into the future. Not trying to be profound. But do you seriously think that once Memo is here that we should let this thread and this board descend into a huge quarrel? The guy came here, he said sorry - let's see what happens. We have 39 pages about why Memo sucks. This thread is not going to disappear. Let's see what the next pages will be about now that Memo's here - let's see if the next pages can be about something else... Like maybe about ROBOTECH? Like the thread topic says. Very nice reaction. Pete

Yay! Good job Memo Now - step 2: Don't be mad if Seto doesn't respond by accepting your apology right away. Let it hang there. I recommend that you now stop arguing with him about all of the past bad things and explore all of the other threads at MW that you might find interesting. Hang out in the M7 thread with us, and hang out in any other thread that you might be interested in. Don't let your self get pulled into any fights about the past. Don't expect reciprocation for your nice apology right away. You did a nice thing and now let's all play together in the other threads and have fun. Meanwhile - I would like to suggest to Seto and Robowell and everybody else - can we at least NOT argue any more about this? If Memo is willing to stop pressing his point, to say sorry (even if it's in his own way and even if you probably think it's insufficient) - then can we move on? Let's talk about Robotech in this thread and let's not bad mouth Memo any more as long as he's here on MW and playing with us in other threads. Look at it from Memo's point of view guys: We've been making fun of Memo for the last 40 pages. The dude came into this thread a few months ago and we hounded him and gave him a rough time - he ran away. Now - Memo is not running - I don't think he is. That's good. Let's leave him alone please - let him hang out with us here on MW. You don't have to believe him, trust him or think his apology was at the level of Pope John Paul the II love of human beings. Just accept that he seems to be trying and let's see where it goes. But don't fan the flames. Please. Pete

Short and sweet Oh well. My girlfriend's ex-husband actually LEFT her. To me - that's crazy because she's smart, sexy, funny and awesome. But I certainly don't deny I benefited from the event So - ok. You hate EVA. See you in the Macross threads then Pete

Fine. That's a nice start. And don't be mad if Seto doesn't think so. Now - I'm sorry for ingoring all of the rest of the things you wrote - I did read them - but I think you miss the point. So I'm going to zero in on this: Here's the thing Memo. When we hurt somebody's feelings, we usually don't mean to. Most people don't intentionally do bad things to other people - it's just that sometimes we don't all get along. There is no way to PROVE that you "did" something to him - and that's not the point. The point is - YOU HAVE A CHOICE. The guy is hurt by you. That's how he feels. You can do 1 of 2 things: A) Argue with his feelings like you are and try to prove that he has no reason to feel hurt by you B) ACCEPT his feelings - even if you disagree with them - and apologize. You don't apologize to people becaues you think you're wrong - you apologize to them because THEY think you did something bad to them. That's how apologies work. People are different - when somebody says "you hurt me" - you might think "huh? How!? What did I do!?" But that doesn't change the fact that you hurt somebody's feelings. Feelings and emotions are subjective - there's no point in trying to argue with them. You can just inflame them - or you can douse the fire. I think it's pointless for you to make ad hoc arguments about how you and Seto used to be friends etc etc - and it's useless for Seto to come in and give his view on that subject. Whatever. The problem is what is here and now - not how you got here. Just give up and say sorry - even if you don't think there's any reason to apologize. Heck - if you're right- if you have no reason to say sorry to him - then saying sorry will make you look all the cooler. It takes a big guy to say sorry EVEN when he didn't do anything bad. Because it means you acknowledge that despite how you see the situation - Seto sees it differently and feels hurt. That's the whole point. The more you continue making arguments and going back and forth - the more you hurt yourself - just like Seto will hurt himself. Because the thing with conflicts is that - like the Fatman from Maltese Falcon said: "In the heat of conflict, men tend to forget where their best interests lie." People don't care for endless quarrels and bickering that get pettier and pettier and pettier. You are in a unique position here and now to end it. Seto is too pissed off and too hurt and too upset and holds too many grudges to end it. He'd like nothing more than to demonstrate how horrible you are by prolonging this quarrel and showing the world what a terrible person you are because he feels hurt and doesn't trust you - and you are walking into that trap like a little kid into a candy shop. Don't walk into that trap. Stop arguing with him. Go against what everybody expects of you. Is your life defined by your being a mod at Robotech.com? Are you here in your official capacity? Are you a slave of the past? Of circumstances? You're Memo. Every day is a new opportunity to define what that means. If people have a bad view of you - then start giving them a new view - here and now. Don't ask for reasons and don't be petty and question why should you apologize etc etc. Just do it for the sake of being the one to end this and open up something new. You're posting in the M7 thread and reading it- cool. You and JasonC are on good talking terms - cool. Exo wrote something funny in the thread about the convention idea you posted. - cool. You're getting a LOT of good will here. Don't waste it. So Seto is being sore. Fine. Big deal. Be better than that and forget all of your "self-interest" that is short terms and petty and short sighted. Do what is in your long term self interest. Open a new chapter and erase what the old Memo means and show peope you can adapt, change, grow and be bigger than all of that. Again - you have a golden opportunity. Be bold - take a big risk. Don't hold back, kick reason to the curve and do the impossible as they say in Gurren Lagann. If you don't - you will forever be defined by a petty pointless and meaningless quarrel that does you no good whatsoever. Pete

Seto - there's no point in me arguing with you because I think you have hurt feelings - and I am not going to argue with your emotions. You have a right to feel hurt - I would hope you could one day get over it - but for now - I can't see anything fair out of trying to compell you to see things differently. If I was in your shoes - and actually...I WAS in your shoes because I got banned from a Polish Transformers website (and this was before I became grumpy about TFs - this was at a time when I was pumping out dozens of fan comics and stories and enthusiasm) - and I know how it hurts when you are banned. Yeah - it's "just the internet" -- but actually we are all people who as fans of a franchise put a lot of passion and time into it and then to just be banned when we did nothing wrong - it just sucks. But that Polish TF website now has more posts by automatic spam than by people. It is dead. There is a pattern here. Take heart in that. And hopefully your bad feelings will pass. But maybe take a time out in arguing with Memo? Nobody here at MW is going to buy the fairy tale that you're a troll. Everybody has read your posts at Robotech.com and elsewhere and your posts here and nobody would be silly enough to believe it. So don't feel obliged to argue with Memo about it - what do you have to prove? I dunno - just chill out for a second if you can. The problem is not with you - but by bickering with Memo - you're not helping - I think you're not helping. Meanwhile... MEMO: MEMO dude - I am happy that you seem to be talking about this in a calmer way than Seto. But - can you at least understand why Seto feels hurt? If you can see things calmly - then maybe you can at least say something NICE to him? If you can't unban him because the powers at Robotech.com won't let you - then can you at least apologize for hurting his feelings? Now you might laugh - you might think this sounds silly like we're in 1st grade. But dude - clearly Seto's feelings have been hurt by you - and here's your big chance to say sorry. And Memo - IGNORE Seto saying this: Seto is just saying that because he really feels hurt by you and doesn't trust you. If you say "Sorry Seto for hurting your feelings" - he's probably not going to trust that either. But you have to do SOMETHING. Take SOME kind of first step. Especially if Seto is not willing - which he's not. Can't unban him? Fine. Then just apologize to him for the mess. Again - this is your big chance. Give the guy SOMETHING NICE. Do or say ANYTHING nice to him. THAT can't possibly be "not as easy as I think" All that would require is for you to type some nice words to Seto. Come on dude. I made fun of you in this thread - but you were nice enough never to take it personally and I made it clear that if you felt offended then I was sorry. If you ever DID write that you felt offended - I would apologize again. People need to lighten up. Seto doesn't want to lighten up because he feels hurt. So - be nice - say sorry to him. And ignore any cynical feelings or mistrust he might have in return. Being nice to him will definitely make you feel better about yourself than arguing with him until the end of time. I'm going to ignore the "MW is also restrictive" and all that other stuff. Nobody is restricting you here right now. The ball is in your court. Seto has no power to stop you from posting whatever you want - and nobody can stop you from speaking your mind. You're free to keep insisting that he's wrong and you're right. But how about using your freedom to try to make amends? Will the world blow up if you say "sorry for hurting your feelings" and try to figure out how to resolve this? Will you be less of a man because you say sorry and try to start looking for an honorable way to end this feud? What do you have to loose dude? Use your imagination. Figure out SOMETHING nice to do for Seto and the other people who have a grudge towards you. Pete

Oh - that much I got out of your equations. But that's kind of like saying "EVA=SKRUFMUFFEL" ---- and that's my point. They're using vaguely important sounding terms which, while you can linkt them together into a kind of casaul thing, you're never going to actually be able to precisely explain what's going on. Let's take something simple: the idea of putting a soul of a human into an EVA. How the blazes do you do that? You could give a narrow interpretation of soul as being personality or specific neuronic map of an individual brain along with the mysterious sources of human uniqueness and personlity... Or you could give it a spiritual, broad definition. In either case though, the soul is really something extremely intangible and ehterial and exquisitely tied to a specific body even. After all, the Aristotelian views of the soul (with which that one guy from Macross:Plus disagrees as you recall) state that the soul is always tied to the body. Each specific soul would loose its' particular uniqueness without the body as it is. If Aristotle is right about the soul - then it's impossible to transfer souls between bodies - even if we could accept that they were tangible. Yet in EVA, we clearly see that it's Yui in EVA-01 -- look how motherly she is to Shinji. And even Asuka's crazy mama protects her daughter in EOE (and Asuka is ellated to realize that her mom has been protecting her in EVA-02 all along). Still... NGE never gives us any practical step by step guide about how to take a soul and put it into a super robot And I don't think it really wants to go there anyways. Pete

That's a question for Gubaba or Keith or Save or anybody else who knows Japanese. I'm flattered you're asking ME to tell you the answer - but I don't know I do know that they do indeed use the word "sto!" or "shto!" (however you want to romanize it) for Angel. But I don't have a clue about its' etymology in Japanese. This is a question for our friendly neighborhood Gubaba Pete

SETO: Did Memo erase your knowledge from your mind. Did Memo demonstrate publicly that you are a fool? Did Memo torture you on hot coals? No. By banning you, Memo only demonstrated that he can't stand the heat from having a competent, knowledgeable person posting interesting informative posts on his website. So...who has Memo wronged? I say - Memo has wronged himself. You will wrong yourself by being vindictive. Everyone respects you because here and on robotech.com you always just gave interesting, fact filled logical arguments. That's why you're cool, and that's why Memo banning you made Memo look uncool. If you start looking for revenge - it will hurt you more than it will hurt Memo. You have every right to feel that way. And yes, Memo would be doing himself a favor if he owned up to his mistakes and past transgressions towards you. That said - you shouldn't worry about it. It's done. Robotech.com is a dead website because people like you were banned from it. Like I told Robowell - you won. What more do you want? Be magnanimous in your victory. MEMO: Your welcome. Did Seto ever swear at people, cuss out their moms, belittle them personally and post pornographic pictures of teenagers getting it on with chimpanzees? Who cares if he has bad words for Robotech fans in every post? As long as those aren't swear words but rather arguments that are well reasoned - then I think it's fine. If you're going to start banning people for just disagreeing - you end up creating an atmosphere in which people are afraid to speak their mind. Understand what banning somebody like Seto does to a website dude. It scares people - it makes them think "will Memo get mad at me if I post this?" - and it stifles free conversation and debate and thought. Come on. Seto is not someone who commited a blatant offense like swearing at people or posting porn or talking about My Little Pony all the time. He wrote very long posts with lots of interesting opinions and seemed to research his views thoroughly. A moderator should be mature enough to tolerate intelligent dissent. You should man up and tolerate intelligent people who disagree with you. Look at where all your members are? They're here - in the HG and Robotech thread. Like you. Because you banned them all - for what? For saying the things they're saying here. Why can't Seto and you be having this conversation on Robotech.com? Isn't that where it really belongs - isn't this what a Robotech site should look like? People talking about Robotech? Your behavior has led to a situation where all of the people who were interested enough in Robotech to sign up to your website have taken their discussion here. Notice Gubaba is not a member of RT.com. Neither am I. Neither is a ton of MW members - because we aren't Robotech fans AT ALL. Seto, Penguingirl (forgot her name - sorry!) and Robowell, just to name some - and other people ARE ROBOTECH FANS. How do I know this? Because they SIGHED UP TO AND PARTICIPATED IN ROBOTECH.COM You kicked out all your fans. You think Seto has faults and isn't perfect - well - what alternative is there? Are you REALLY upset over having fans like Seto participate at Robotech.com? unban him and bury the hatchet. If Seto isn't willing to be nice - then YOU be nice. Show us all that you're not afraid of intelligent people writing about Robotech in different ways at Robotech.com. Take your fans back - they obviously have a lot of hurt over getting banned. If I was a Robotech fan - I would be pissed too, because I'd probably PREFER to write about Robotech on the Robotech website instead of in a dinky thread on MW. But you banned them. This is the only place they have left. It's not about Macross Purist/Robotech fan - Seto didn't sign up to Robotech.com to troll. Come on. Be serious. You've read the guys' posts there - trolls don't post long well reasoned treatises. You can disagree with him - but don't you see that the banning has just hurt you, your site and the reputation of Robotech? I do think it's cool you're posting here and in the M7 thread and that you want to get everyone together at the Convention. So - be even cooler than Seto is being right now - and unban him. It's Christmas. Show some Christmas spirit and just unban him. Come on - let's see SOMEBODY step up to the plate here - Memo - this is your golden opportunity. Everybody is pissed at you and thinks you're a troll and nobody trusts you. Prove everybody wrong and lift the temp bans. I won't let anybody hold a grudge against you - and nobody should. Just lift the bans - and we'll ask Seto and the others to forgive and forget. A sucky past need not lead to a sucky future. Pete

I'm glad this thead has gone off topic from Pine Salad to steak, because I wanted to ask a question about steak, but was afraid it would be off topic since the thread is specifically about Pine Sadal and Roy Fokker. But maybe we can think of the topic in metaphysical terms as being about food, dangerous missions and possible death? So - here's my question: In Neon Genesis Evangelion, when Misato promises that if Shinji, Rei and Asuka succeed in their mission of the Yamawatchamacallit Operation which has 0 chance of success, then she will buy them all steak. Now - is this a Macross reference? Later, because Misato is poor and the kids know it, they let her take them out to a sushi bar or something of that sort - cheaper anyways. But I always wondered...were we meant to hear "if you suceed, I'll treat you to steak" and think "Oh sh!t! They're all gonna die!!!!!!" due to Kakizake's history with steak? Pete

I'm not surprised there's a lot of ill-will towards him. Technically, if I had signed up to be a member of Robotech.com over the last few months, I probably would have also gotten banned and burned. But I didn't, because I'm not a Robotech fan. To me, like I often noted, the whole "Macross/Robotech" issue is just a side issue. It's tabloid fodder, if you will. It doesn't have any impact whatsoever on my enjoyment of Macross. That said - lots of people in this thread are kind of "refugees" from Robotech.com where they have been badly treated - and then the guy who treats them badly waltzes in here and takes advantage of the same polite atmosphere and open discussion that he denied to them in the old website. I understand that. However - think about it this way: What's the point? What's the point in bad mouthing Memo when Memo is posting on MW - not just in this thread, but in two others - one of which is about a Macross show? Doesn't that just mean that you have already won? No matter what Memo posts here or in the M7 thread - all it means is that he's acknowledged that it sucks to be "right" when "being right" means that you're talking to about 3 people on your website where everybody else is banned. So I say - let's not get into a pissing fight with him since he has come here and started posting in MW. Let's treat him like any other member. I loved making fun of him when he wasn't here - but that only makes sense if he never shows up and never musters the courage to post, and not to flame - but to actually just post normal posts. Well - he showed up and he's posting. He's always going to be MEMO - nobody ever said he can't be. The problem was that he didn't seem to want to let Seto be Seto, and you be you etc. But that was on a different board. This board lets people be themselve as long as they are polite to eachother, and lets Robotech discussion happen as long as it's in this thread. Again - think about it this way: What do you want to achieve? You want to run him off? To make him feel unwelcome? What point will that serve? He'll just then think that all his prejudices about "Macross Purists" were true and that we're all a bunch of asssholes. I think it would be better if we made him feel welcome, if he stuck around and if we all became friends. You have no reason to feel like you need to make it a point of honor to give a laundry list of the guys' transgressions. The fact that he's posting here and in the M7 thread and inviting people to work together at a convention means you've won. Sure - you can be paranoid about his motives - but come on. Remember - this is the internet. What's Memo going to do? Is he going to eat you? Is he going to rape your mother (my favorite EXO line). No. Memo can't do anything truly damaging to you. And I honestly think Memo might just be a little bored of being lonely and having nobody to talk to. So bury the hatchet - that's my advise. Don't turn MW into RT.com Pete

I use the exact same thing. I use the exact same bank. Call Citibank. It's possible they suspended your card as a security measure when you tried to charge it to paypal. Citibank has a list of "suspicious transactions" that automatically trigger a payment-refusal on a Citibank credit card. When that happens, you will need to tell them over the phone exactly what it was that you tried to buy and when it was and what the amount was and make clear it didn't work. You might just be better off asking Citibank to suspend your Credit Card and send you a new card. Then, input the new card data into Paypal and try again. Pete

Well look - people see things differently. There are always consequences to the ideas and opinions you hold. No one can force you to change them, but they sure can make your life lonely. MW is cool, and this thread is cool, because no mods are stepping in here to enforce any party lines. As long as we're not saying bad things about our mothers, everybody gets to say what they please and hold opinions that might even be "illogical" - as long as they are not rude. I wouldn't be too hard on Memo. I would take this opportunity to note that the most important thing is not WHAT he wrote but WHERE he wrote it. He could have written that on Robotech.com - instead, he joined us to write it here. That's good. That means he's open to talking. Be happy with that and be more curteous to him than RT.com would be to you if you wrote your thoughts on Macross/Robotech over there. Pete

Yes and no. Kaji's murder was not random - there was a motive behind it. Zero in on the motive and you widdle down the people who were behind it. Technically - it could have been Anonymous NERV security Officer #1 pulling the trigger because Gendo said "enough of that man." What IS important is that Kaji was killed because his usefulness had come to an end, he was working for the Japanese government as a spy against NERV - and - actually... he was also becoming somewhat of a loose cannon as his conspiration with Misato proved. Heck -for all we know, the Japanese government killed Kaji when they realized he was becoming a loose cannon with his own agenda - namely getting to the truth of things. Arguing over who specifically pulled the trigger is secondary to the question of why the character was killed, what he was doing, and - as with EVERYTHING in NGE - WHO he was. Kaji's most important role in the series was that he made a real woman of Misato and was a real father to Shinji during their man to man talks. I think lots of times EVA debates dwell on stuff that the anime itself doesn't make out to be extremely important and misses those things which, according to the anime, are important. That said- I do admire anybody who wades into what Keith is going on about- because that is highly complex stuff, and if there is sense behind it, as he makes it out - then that is a higher form of poetry than I can grasp at the moment. Pete

Translation: ROBOTECH FAN DEFINITION BY A MACROSS FAN (INSERT SETO'S COLLECTION OF WORDS TO USER NAME HERE) Meaning: The Definition of a Robotech fan according a Macross fan is whatever Seto says it is. MACROSS FAN DEFINITION BY A ROBOTECH FAN MACROSS PURIST (REGARDLESS USER NAME) Meaning: The definition of a Macross fan by a Robotech fan is "Macross Purist." AND THEN THE REGULAR ROBOTECH/MACROSS FAN DON'T GET INVOLVED MUCH PAST A PURIST ON BOTH SIDES Meaning: People who like Macross AND Robotech don't get involved with the radicals on either side as defined above (aka Seto is a radical "purist" just like Robotech fans who hate Macross are radical Robotech purists). NOW ME PETE SAYING SOMETHING...although not in Grimlock voice: I disagree. I don't think Seto is a radical purist, and I actually don't think that this distinction between "regular Robotech/Macross fans" vs. the radical purists of Macross and the Radical purists of Robotech holds much weight. Why? Because the "regular Robotech/Macross fan" seems to presume that this mean is the desired norm. It presumes there's no tension between Macross and Robotech. But there is tension. And I'm not talking about political tension between Robotech.com and MW people in this thread or between Seto and you guys. Nope. I'm talking about tension between the original Japanese SDFM TV Macross and Robotech. They are in tension with eachother because they use the same footage to tell two different stories. Macross fans prefer the original story. Robotech fans prefer the story that was created on the basis of the footage, which is not the original story of Macross. I believe any attempt to hide this tension under the misty and general vague moniker of "Robotech/Macross fan" does a disservice to...Macross. It's a disservice to Macross because it makes it seem like there's no big deal, it's just a cool story with transforming jets flying around. But there's so much more to Macross, and seems to be so much less to Robotech, that to artificially tie the two in some happy "mean between extremes" is actually just belittling Macross in favor of Robotech - making it seem like Macross is a tolerable part of the amazing whole that is Robotech - that the two can co-exist. Yet in the end - if you're honest - the question of "which is better and why?" is bound to arise since the two are so different. I agree that it's senseless for the two sides to run away into their extremist camps and not talk to eachother - that's silly and counter productive. But the problem really arises when they DO try to talk. Inevitably - the Macross side starts giving concrete examples of why Macross is better - examples that hold a lot of logic and passion in them. Meanwhile, Robotech gives us something like that "Top 10 reasons" list from Topless Robot that we laughed at a couple pages back. And it seems Robotech can't do any better than that. Pete

Might I offer a word of advise from one translator to another: DON'T make grammatically correct sentences. DO convey the same amount of ambiguity by writing in english using Japanese grammatical form as closely as possible. That's what I do whenever I am dealing with something from a foriegn language that makes no grammatical sense in english. The idea here is as follows: is a translator meant to be an interpretor of meaning, or is he meant to convey the meaning of the original text? I firmly believe that the translator is meant to do the latter, not the former. Ergo, when a translator is faced with a text that is highly ambiguous and "can't make grammatically correct sense that conveys the same amount of ambiguity" - there is a temptation for the translator to INTERPRET the meaning of the original and then create a nice, grammatically correct english translation which imputes a meaning that the translator decides is the correct one and also happens to destroy all original ambiguity. This is a disservice to the reader, who ends up getting not the story but just the translator's version of the story. I prefer translations which are rough, strange, ungrammatical and make you pause and scratch your head - at least they give you a taste of the problem that understanding the original presents -and leads you down paths that otherwise you wouldn't have taken. 1. 2. Does this mean that the S2 engine = Lilith's soul (Rei) + Adam's soul (Kowaru + Adam's body (ngel-01) + embryo? It would logically follow that if God = Equation 1 and God = Equation 2, then Equation 1 = Equation 2 (since both equal God). But the only common factor in both equations is "body of Lilith" - which would lead to the mathematical necessity that: S2 engine = Lilith's soul (Rei) + Adam's soul (Kowaru + Adam's body (ngel-01) + embryo? Is that the case? Pete

THAT IS AWESOME!!! THIS THREAD WAS WORTH IT TO LEARN ABOUT THAT!! And the picture rocks!! That's so cool!!!!!! Pete

I sure would hate it if people sent me money and decided to pack up their Macross collections and send them my way. I wouldn't like that one bit no-siree. In fact, I highly recomend people don't do that. Don't PM me to ask for my paypal in order to send me money and don't even think of PMing me to ask my shipping address because you want to EMS your collections to me. can't blame a guy for tryin' Pete

Well - the thing is...it's certainly a mix - like most Macross shows always are... the thing is - and maybe this is just a matter of time lag...but I get the feeling that a broader proportion of general Macross fans love Macross Frontier than they do Macross 7. More people - it seems to me - hate Macross 7 while considering MF to be cool and dandy. Maybe I'm wrong in this impression - but if there is any truth to it, I consider it to be a testimony to Macross Frontier doing exactly what Macross 7 does only managing to do it more effectively. Maybe it's because Macross Frontier gives us Sheryl, and people are more willing to accept a message of love and peace from a porn star than from a guy in a wife beater with John Lennon Glasses and gay spandex pants? Whatever the reason - I believe MF has more in common with M7 and yet less people hate it... or so it seems. Pete

PM sent. And for the second time (first time was in the Robotech/HG thread)...I am an American.... Maybe I need to make this my new sig?? Pete

That screen grab demonstrates to me one of the annoying animation choices of M7. Notice how even though the animation does a good job of showing that Rex's helment has some kind of see-through cover, and that there is a face gaurd clearly visible beneeth it...we still don't see her eyes. It's so obvious that they're just unrealistically blacked out so that her "true identity" is a mystery until she takes her helment off. I'll admit it half worked on me the first time, but by drawing it like that ... it is a tad bit cheesy. See - this is stuff that I agree can make M7 difficult to swallow sometimes... just like Bassara's VF-19Kai miraculously withstanding a barrage of gun fire. Yeah, I understand he uses a pinpoint barrier like the YF-19, and I understand he has the most super advanced fighter ever and probably some kind of great armor... but still... Macross: Frontier does a MUCH better job of combining the over-the-top idealism of Music saving the universe with elements of what should be in a Real Robots show IMO. Pete