VFTF1

Re: Dirty Gamlin surfing net porn... I remember that scene...vaguely...he was looking for something or other and some secreteries or something walked in on him... That is a future episode.... Nice...forgot about that... unless my mind is playing tricks on me? Pete

Re: Bootleg = illegal Well - if that's your definition of bootleg, then of course Robotech is not a bootleg. That said, my definition of bootleg is simply taking one work of fiction and radically changing some of its' elements - say dubbing over it with dialogue that gives it completely new meaning - and making it into a different one. My only point here was to make what I thought was an interesting observation - namely that the method which HG works by - taking an anime and using its' animation but re-writing the story to mean something else is similar to the contemporary method used in most bootlegs which also substitute a dub or sub line that has nothing to do with the original story. Nobody is questioning that Robotech happened legally - it's just that the form it took was a viable business model in 1980 prior to the internet and has now been relegated to crappy bootlegs. Yet HG persists in trying to use the same business model - the same approach to the anime. They'd be better off re-launching and marketing Macross as Macross, Mospedea as Mospeda and SOuthern Cross as Southern Cross and cooperating with the companies in Japan that continue these properties. If I had international licensing rights to Macross - you bet that's what I'd be doing. Why waste money making a crapy movie like Shadow Chronicles when you can cooperate with BW to bring Macross Frontier etc to the USA? If the reason is because they are delussionally attached to Robotech uber alles - then I think that's bad. The whole point back in the 80s was to bring anime to the USA - not to create something radically new. If their creation at least had any merit - then great. But it has no merit really, and certainly not compared to the original. I know, I know -BW apparently don't want to work with them. But I think if HG fired all the guys who have anything to do with Robotech right now and installed in their place people who have a good reputation in the anime industry, who are respected by the Japanese - then BW would turn and cooperate. What HG is doing is fanwank and makes no business sense. I would totally understand it if they had a great story and concept - but they don't. And their fanbase is pretty "retarted" ... would be better to ditch the "retarts" and let them keep going with their fanfiction and pedophilia hunts and do what makes both business sense AND embraces a better story. Of course - if HG honestly believes Robotech IS the better story...well... it's their bed...they'll sleep in it... Edit: re Random/Radnom - spelling mistakes on the internet are like Pokemon - you can never quite catch them all even though ya gotta Pete

I hope that's not the official promotional line, 'cause some people on this forum are gonna..."crack up" at the shoulders reading it Pete

Well - not in Macross proper...but I think the manga where it is shown is officially licensed, no? Edit: Although - the closest thing we get to a sex scene in Macross proper is Ozma and Cathy... it's very tender but brief I still think NGE does a better job there... Pete

So much to reply to! This thread just never dies It's almost gotten to the point where Macrossworld has a more thriving Robotech fandom than Robotech.com Exo and Seto kind of addressed this issue - I'll just add my two cents. To me - the business model Harmony Gold used in the 1980s, which back then was considered savy and intelligent - would now be considered bootlegging. It's like a lot of things which were once elite and exclusive and now any old joe shmoe can do them. The problem with Harmony Gold is that unlike other contemporary bootleggers, they pretend that what they are doing ISN'T just bootlegging. Yes - before the internet and before globalization - bringing three anime over and re-dubbing them was a form of bringing something from a foriegn culture to America, and westernizing it and dubbing it and extending it for syndication were necessities of the times. But those times are gone. Nowadays, the only people who do this are bootleggers.... and Harmony Gold. Thus I laugh at them not because they are Bootleggers as such, but because they are Bootleggers who pretend to be doing something that isn't the equivalent of what KO factories and Bootleggers do nowadays - make a quick buck off of somebody elses work without showing any love for the original or the originators. Aaaaaaawwwwwwww....ain't that just swell. Shoji Kawamori's name was credited in a book that is out of print - in one sentence. Because as we all know - that's pretty much the extent of Shoji Kawamorii's contribution. He's just some Asian guy. The real genius was Carl Macek who wrote everything and Frank Agrama who produced everything. Given how hard Carl Macek and the Harmony Gold crew worked on making Robotech the greatest Sci-Fi epic in human history - I agree. Radnom Asian dudes like Shoji Kawa-something or other can get lost in the shuffle. But hey - even the little people deserve credit, so hats off to HG for being Big enough to give him a sentence or two in Robotech Art 1! Actually, I read quite a few American websites on a regular, daily basis which are full of very intelligent and informed commentary. I even wrote up an article for one of them, if I may toot my own horn But they are there - and they are a diverse bunch. The problem is, none of them are mainstream... But then again - show me the country where intelligence is mainstream - I think it isn't and never has been. At best, all you can hope for is that common sense would be main stream. People needn't all be intellectual powerhouses as long as they have good common sense and decent morals. I personally get annoyed with foriegners ragging on Americans as "stupid" all the time while pretending to be the pinacle of wisdom and open-mindedness. No open minded, wise person ever generalizes. It's fashionable to generalize that Americans are stupid - but no wise person ever mistakens what is fashionable for wisdom. I DO agree that there are lots of stupid Americans and I also find many of the newspapers, and news outlets etc etc stupid and bad --- but for every example of a bad or stupid outlet, there's tons of good ones. I'm sure it's the same in most countries. The difference is that nobody has the nerve to generalize about other countries because that would be insensitive. Yo ucan't say Polacks don't know how to screw in a light bulb (even though they don't), or that Ruskies are drunkards, or that...well...I can't really write what I'm thinking because I can just see myself getting pounced on for "racism." But see - either we accept that you can make general statements about countries and people (aka "Americans are stupid") and do so lightheartedly - that is...in a way that nobody's gonna get hyper sensitive and pounce on you ... or we don't. Thing is... if you read good foriegn writers - they're always ragging on their own countries. Dostoyewski's view of the Russian peasantry is basically that Russia is full of barbarians - just to give an example. In Poland, most of the theatre artists I followed/associated with and whose plays I've gone to ALL believe that Poland is provincial and full of idiots. If you go certain places in the US - particularly in the academia - you will find viral anti-Americanism amongst "educated" Americans who shun their "backwater" "yokel" "fly over country" folks. In fact, I've found that it's usually likely that the people most inclined to look down on fly over country...were born there. It's actually the same in most countries. Lots of folks escape their small town or village roots, go to the city and try to transform themselves into refined cosmopolitans... And they think that to do this - they need to sneer at their simple roots and generally hold the vague opinion that their fellow countrymen are idiots. There's always going to be some truth to the "people are stupid" mantra... But it's important to keep in mind that we usually think this because we know something that "they" don't. But there's always stuff WE don't know either - and compared to some folks - we're the stupid ones... I dunno... I just can't really stand the whole "are Americans stupid?" debate. All the Americans I've known have been super intelligent, decent and cool people. Hmm...sounds dubious ... It's been a loooooooong time since I read fanfiction. Mainly Transformers FF. It used to be super popular - and there were some reeallly great stories people wrote up. But I think that was a function of A) The internet coming int obeing B) Coinciding with no Transformers on TV really, or even with BW being a mild rebirth...still there was this hunger for stories that wasn't being satiated... Nowadays though - it seems like we get a deluge of anime every season and there's less demand for fan fiction... Even my own story (linked below) is more Fan Fun than fan fiction Although...ultiamtely - everybody who is a fan of a franchise usually writes some fanfiction in one form or another...it's inevitable...we want to be a part of the adventure and our imaginations run wild. Pete

Hm. I know it's time for bed when I look at this thread and see "How Many Micronians Can you fit into a VW?" instead of what the actual thread title is. Goodnight! Pete

Shipped? No - shipping Shipping Give people a chance to put something in a box Again - this is standard for most stores. Just because they charged your credit card, doesn't mean it's shipped. It just means it's green lit for shipment. They charged your card on the 6th - today is the 7th. It is possible the charge was automated. In any event - it's just a greenlight for somebody to pack your shipment up Not to rag on people demanding good service - but sometimes folks forget that this isn't a physical shopping experience where you go up to the counter, pay, and the thing is in hand and hey presto - it's yours I get customers who also sometimes think that the mere fact that they have made a payment means that seconds later the item should be shipping Sometimes it works that way - but sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes a mail truck leaves just when you paid. Sometimes smaller stores run out of boxes to pack stuff. I can't tell you how many times I've had the following scenarios: 1) A deluge of orders and payments comes in by surprise - and I am short on boxes and packing materials 2) I have a ton of boxes and packing materials but no orders 3) The Mail Truck just left with one shipment and a ton of new orders came in five minutes later and the mail truck won't be back until the day after tomorrow 4) In the case of when I personally drive shipments to the post office - I try to wait for a really large amount to accumulate to save on gas so that I'm not driving three times a day Bigger stores have various other factors in play. a one or two day or even one week delay in shipping of in stock goods is not unheard of. To my mind - the worse possible thing is lack of contact - that is a big offence in the world of mail order/internet shopping. Not having good contact with people scares them, makes them paranoid and is really bad. Small delays in shipping etc are however pretty routine. If you order regularly then you get used to it. Pete just giving his casual opinion of things

Wow. So they do. It's exactly as you say. I got myself a pack of 20 CDs and indeed they hold 700MB (80 minutes worth). But I also have a 10 pack of DVD+Rs "Haute Sensibilites" (so they are very sensitive...because they are French?) Anyways - those do indeed hold 4.7 GBs. I'll just keep buying DVDs until I have Gurren Lagann, everything from Macross, both season of Haruhi Suzumiya and even more stuff burned. I'm also gonna buy some nice jackets or something to hold them there. Oh yeah.. the External Hardrive option. I think that would certainly be more economical than burning 7 million discs worth of stuff... hmmm ...hmm... hmm... I need to go to my local computer super center and inquire about how much an external hardrive costs. THANKS! I thought it was a valid point you made - and it led me to an interesting line of thought - so I'm happy with your joke because it led to considering something serious - namely Stock Footage & the Question of Canon Pete

Well - they did get Mark Hamil to voice somebody....and wasn't it them who organized Mari Ijima to do the english voice over (that I've not heard) for Robotech? Don't get me wrong - I'm not suddenly becoming a Robotech fan here - it's just that... I seriously almost feel compelled to defend the cartoon itself sometimes for all the lousy reputation Robotech is getting/has gotten thanks to the Divine Comedy that is MEMO/Doug/etc etc etc ... It is getting so bad that somebody has to step in and say something nice for the actual product itself. If only the Harmony Gold crew were not so hyperbolic about their product though - I mean ... they think people who watch this show are functioning in a bubble. I actually liked Protoculture's take on one thing - namely - this idea of closing out the Robotech story arc for the older fans from the 80s. Fine. That's a nice idea. And instead of harping on RSC and SR as the greatest epic in the history of mankind - these guys should be playing it a bit more low key.... I mean - if they weren't so in your face "this is the best" + Macross is illegal about it then they might actually generate some sympathy. HG has an image problem that is posioning their product. They should be marketing themselves as the little company that could - that tried to bring some good anime to America back in the 80s and still has these licenses and likes to play around with them and their old story. People would have fun with Robotech if HG would lighten up and let Macross in and not be such bums about it Contrary to their fears, Robotech would actually not be "crushed" because Macross fans in general are also anime fans who might have a passing interest in other mediums and MIGHT actually pick up some Robotech stuff to see how the "American version" that grew out of Macross is coming along. Seriously. I know Gubaba will disagree - but I wonder if he is sure what he'll be disagreeing with. My point is not to hold Robotech up to Macross and say "EQUAL." My point is to say that when you hold Robotech up in one hand and Doug/Memo/etc up in another hand -- they are not equal. Robotech is better than retarted FANBOYZ on a witch hunt for pedophiles. Notice how many Robotech fans we have here - the problem is - because they have been thrown out of their own fandom, they're here bitching and moaning - and this entire thread is more about HG and its' crap website and crap business practices than it is about Robotech. It's gotten to the point where it seems even intelligent Robotech fans have forgotten what it was like to just have a discussion about Robotech as such. Good job HG and great job Robotech.com crew for running a website that looks inviting to people who sniff glue for breakfast and not only running off your smarter fans, but making them so bitter that they spend more time putting you down than talking about your TV show. way to go guys Pete

If you purchased a pre-ordered item which just came into stock - then it's normal. All hobby shops do this with pre-ordered items (unless, like me, they make you pre-pay upon placing an order). As soon as the items arrive - they charge your card. But just because your card has been charged, doesn't mean the items are in a box shipping to you. More than likely the items literally just arrived and are being unpacked. Thus your card is charged but the item is processing. Pete

Actually - if Haruhi Suzumiya were ever allowed to learn that Robotech.com exists - she would end the universe immediately. It would be a bigger tragedy than finding out that millions of people exist who are all the same and all like baseball. seriously. Pete

Damn Seto. No wonder they banned you at Robotech.com. Logic and facts are one thing - most guys got 'em. But the ability to write a conscise summary....it's like a one-two-Muhamed-Ali... did Muhamed Ali use one-two? Or maybe all boxers do? I don't know anything about boxing really. Just played NES Mike Tyson's Punch out and watched all the Rocky Movies. And some boxing matches on Youtube. Pete

Not practical?? Surely the aliens, if they are biological beings who multiply through reproductive sex would at least like some of our girls!!?? This would in turn serve as the motivation to get them to recalibrate their equipment. Don't believe me? Look at Macross.... Well - wait - is anybody keeping count with the VF-11s destroyed, because actually it's not that many. You just get that impression because they keep showing stock footage of the VF-11Cs getting blown up - but ultimately - I don't think that's indicative of anything. Stock Footage battles are perfect examples of what Kawamorii-san called attention to when he said that his anime were just renditions of stories that happened, and therefore that you shouldn't 100% take what you see as "cannonical" because it's a version of a story. Gubaba showed us with his translations of White Reminiscence that in fact, there was a huge process between the concept for a story, its' transformation into script, and then the director's discression in making it into an episode. Now - look - stock footage battles is a case in point for this because of the following: If you're going to take as "canonical" EVERYTHING you SEE in the particular anime you're watching, then a problem arises when you are faced with stock footage; namely - can the same exact thing happen twice? EXACTLY? I mean - if what we see is what is actuall transpiring, then we must explain why the same exact thing repeats itself. And I mean literally the same exact thing - not just "another battle where VF-11Cs are blown up" - but the same image. The explicitly same angle, same explosion, same contures etc etc Imagine a war in the real world - you turn on CNN and they show footage from the war and every day it's the exact same footage of a the exact same guy running down the exact same hill and getting shot at the exact same point in time by the exact same other guy etc. Now - this is what we SEE in Macross 7. And I submit to you that rather than interpret this as literally being cannonical -we need to take a looser view of what's happening. It's just "another" battle actually. When something NEW happens in that battle - we are shown new footage. But the stock footage of VF-11Cs all being destroyed have to be taken with a grain of salt. It's just meant to show us that the Protodevilin are sucking the spiritia out of the pilots - and it's done over and over and over because if you're a new comer to the episode then you need to see it done to understand that something is awry with the enemy attack pattern and wonder about the mystery of what they're doing. Therefore - I personally see no reason to pursue a "how many VF-11Cs are on the Macorss 7?" line of inquiry - because it's irrelevent. If Macross 7 ever gets made into an OVA focusing on the events of the series itself - then we'd probably get ONE big battle where the Protodevilin do their sucking thing and 90% of the VF-11Cs are are destroyed... and maybe the lack of VF-11Cs would be a great plot point too. Maybe the systematic destruction of the VF-11Cs would be the thing that tips Max's hand and gives him more leeway to pursue the Fire Bomber Attack option since his generals and officers don't have any Valkyrie left to fight with. Maybe if Kawamori had thought it out a bit more - then this theme would have also found its way into Macross 7 the series? Finally - maybe they BUILD the VF-11Cs on the ship? There is, after all - the Einstein. I highly doubt they do nothing Valkyrie related there. And I would be surprised if Colony ships did not have their own Factories where Valkyries could be built. Yes - it leaves the question of resources etc open - but...just some stuff to consider. GREAT observation. I have a knack for missing the obvious - I totally missed this. You're right. I never noticed how Mylene will go to any lengths - even risking her body for marriage - to get Fire Bomber singing gigs!! Amazing Good point. I still need to watch this episode - but truth be told - I'm happy to be the tardy one here - I love reading you guys going at it and if my being tardy means other people take up the baton and run with it for a while - great!! Tomorrow, I'm going to the gym to work out and then I'm going to help my girlfriend clean her appartment...hopefully I'll convince her she needs to wear a sexy maid outfit while cleaning The weekend will see me working and...um...cleaning her place some more ... I have acquired a bunch of empty CD-Roms where I plan to Burn Anime - oh - I have also learned how to Burn CDs. It used to be that I had to download a bunch of software to do it - but my new laptop just has this button which says "BURN" and I click it - and hey presto - it's burned! So...I just burned a J-POP CD album for my car. I'll start downloading anime and burning it to CDs this week - eventually will get around to doing Macross 7 as well and getting caught up! Final note: Don't worry about "going off topic" if your tangent stretches from Macross 7. The stuff you guys were discussing was all on topic as far as I'm concerned. The question of the nitty gritty of alien/human interaction and long-distance communication in space is not outside the bounds of Macross 7 which is all about a long range colonization fleet encountering aliens from another dimmension. So it kind of begs questions like that! Pete

Need to put some 1/60 hands on him Jetfire didn't have no chicken fingers Other than that - nice job! Pete

Hmm... I think that to Haruhi- the crew at Harmony Gold would be comparable to ...oh...say....Computa Society! In other words - just a bunch'a useless geeks... And judging by how PTH reacts to women, and the generally sensitive way some of those guys approach cute girls...can you imagine using Mikuru to blackmail them? Problem is...what would Danchou want that they have? Exclusive "Masterpiece" Toynami products? A Robotech mug? I dunno... Although sending her over there would be interesting... Pete

That's 'cause all the cute Ukrainian girls are in Poland now He was probably writing letters to their grandmothers I just want his seven bucks is all Pete

It's not gonna be much of a review! All it'll say is one of the following: 1) STUPIDF#%%CKINGBANDAICAN'TFU#%@MAKEUNICORNLEGBENDGRRBLLGRRR!!! or 2) Everything that was ever perfect about the Unicorn ver KA + excellent poseability at the knees! Recomended. That said... I personally still think the best Unicorn Gundam is the Titanium version that I have. That shining metalic glow is AWESOME!! You haven't built Unicorn or enjoyed it unless it's titanium Unicorn Besides - then regular Unicorn's inner frame bends his knees just fine... it truly is just a matter of the armor platting inhibiting the joint. In fact - if you have enough experience as a modeler - I'm sure you can save yourself some money and just carve away some of the leg armor to free up the knee joint. Pete

You could just say that they use child labor on the Macross ... Pete

Hell - I live in the former Soviet Union...well..ok...technically I don't...but they didn't call it the Warsaw Pact for nothin'! Tell him to send ME the 7 bucks and I'll give his letters to beautiful women here on the spot! PM me for my paypal. No hidden fees, no hassel! Lots of beautiful women all over the place! I'm on the Straight Shooter list and will even help with VISA formalities if things go there. This guy sounds awesome! Why hasn't he shown up in this thread yet?

Very interesting subject you bring up. Interesting because in Poland, they actually produce Polish Manga... http://yatta.pl/sprzedaz-1,Mangi,Polskie,H...oryginalne.html and here's some Polish Dojinshi: http://yatta.pl/sprzedaz-1,Mangi,Polskie,D%C5%8Djinshi.html I don't know how good any of this stuff is because I've never read it - but judging from the cover art - it looks very professional. They are all apparently original works, albeit I'm sure there's some obvious inspiration going on there. So - going that route - if somebody made a "cartoon" but called it an "anime" -- what then? Like these Polish folks made something that they called a Dojinshi... and generally - I'm not expert on Dojinshi's - but if you're going to make something called a Dojinshi - it probably has to have certain traits that make up what a Dojinshi generally is thought to be - although - you can then add your own stuff, and probably there is some cultural stuff in there which is very Polish and not very Japanse - beats me - haven't read any of it. But the point is - if a foriegn person makes a "cartoon" but does it in the general style that is used in Japanese anime - then can't they also say they've made an anime? I guess I'm going to be called a liberal again (here's looking at you Bendo!) ... but yeah ... my gutt instinct is to take a liberal interpretation of the term anime and not limit it to simpley Japanese productions. THAT said - "anime" definitely needs to be qualified as any animated material that is, in form, substance, content and any other way a reflection of, inspired by, commentary to Japanese anime as such. So no - it can't be The Simpsons or the Smurfs. Is there a more precise way to define it than this? I dunno ... off the top of my head- not really... But I certainly wouldn't say that JUST because a cartoon was made in Korea and written in America - then it can't be an anime. I mean - personally, I wouldn't mind it if everybody who made cartoons adopted anime as a style. Then again, there have been mega-bastardizations of this - like what Pat Lee did with his Transformers designs in Dreamwave comics.... Open to debate I guess. Oh - it was you I guess I should have been able to tell by the..um...you know...SAME avatar Me - I use a different avatar in every forum I post in...in fact, I hate my VFTF1 avatar...I wish the mods would let me change it to something cool like... AGENT2 !! But anyways - I disagree with lots of the stuff you post in that debate in RT.com - but I did notice a strange tendency to be open to argumentation and generally a vague ability to present your views reasonably, in complete paragraphs etc etc ... But - having said that - I guess you were being sarcastic since, as a MW member - you clearly see that nobody is toasting or roasting you personally for saying you're a Robotech fan. Mainly - it's not BEING a Robotech fan that bothers anybody on these boards. It's being a STUPID Robotech fan - one whose fanboyishness is made visible by constantly putting down Macross as child pornography - which is stupid Again I kind of disagree. I think there is a point to categorizing because the more Japanese anime I watch, the more I get the feeling that all these guys have been watching eachother, and their works are also kind of like commentary to one another. This is especially so of Gainax productions where you can so see that they grew up on the classics and their contemporary work has been a shout out to all that they remember. To me, anime is a cultural phenomena that is partially tied to Japan as such, but actually more closely tied to a body of animated works that happened to be made in Japan in the 70s and 80s (and a few in the 60s) as well as tied to the manga that were made back then - which all kind of created their own cultural phenomena and are pretty characteristic up to today. That is to say...if this makes sense... Japanese anime is not Japanese in the sense of being limited to a particular nationality - but it IS "Japanese" insofar as the majority of it was created in Japan and the anime/otaku culture has flourished in Japan - as a sub-culture to the mainstream Japanese culture. Anime is all about this sub-culture. Whether the reasons for it being born in Japan and thriving in Japan have anything to do with Japanese culture as such....I dunno - I'm not expert enough in the material... So there you go Pete

Hm...here's a very interesting exerpt from that thread over at Robotech.com: So...basically being a Robotech fan means being a member of the Flat Earth Society who goes to pretty much any modern day...well...I was going to write "university" but I can just as well write "toilet" and, while peeing, ask the guys in the other stalls - "Hey guys! I have heard that the Earth is FLAT! What do you think?" and debating this question, then returning to the Flat Earth Society to...tell the tale! Comedy at its' finest Moving on: Oh yeah - I remember reading about that over at all the major news network websites. "Chinese Prime Minister Announced Robotech the greatest Robot themed cartoon of all time." Seriously - again - am I missing something - when did "China" do this? What does the poster mean by "China"- usually when we say "America did this or that" or "France is going to do this or that" we mean - the government, and the country is just used as a short-hand. Very rarely do we mean "in America" or "in France." Ok - fine - maybe there was a poll or there is a magazine in China which announced this - but so what? How many people did the poll cover? Any numbers? Figures? LINK maybe? jeez... More great stuff: Dear Potential Empoyer, I would like to apply for the position of Business Venture Manager. As you will note from my CV, I have utterly failed to secure sponsorship deals to defer some of the costs of my previous business endeavors, and have had to finance them all out of pocket, since the final product didn't sell well either. I am proud of this record of self-financing and can't wait to bring the benefits of this business model to your company. John Doe Harmony Gold .... And ANOTHER wonderful gem of a quote: Ok guys - I have a really great idea for a movie - a big holywood blockbuster! I don't know when it will ever get made - but I need some fans. Anybody care to become a fan of my movie for its' potential? Now here though - I have got to say thanks to Pizza the Hut for making this statement: So with these guys it really is all about sex, isn't it? There just needs to be less sex and more blood to make a show good. And no comedy. No sex, no humor - just blood and grit. Finally - how is the ending of Macross Frontier cheezy (sic) due to having concentrated on "sexual themes" ?? I don't understand that statement...trying to wrap my head around it... It makes it sound like the ending is a softcore porn scene that never managed to go hardcore and thus annoys everybody by generating all this anticipation? I dunno But still - if THOSE are the best reasons that can be given....then...well...yawn Umm... how does being ragged (not bagged) on by Macross fans in MW make the Roboech fandom a better fandom? Me no understand. It's like... he combines the adjectives "best" and "better" and "good" with things that usually are not associated with this adjective... BUT THEN ...this is so awesome... then a Robotech fan shows up and, in reference to Pizza's accusation that there's too much sex and bouncing boobs in MF... Mind you - the angry sign is from the poster!! It's like - yeah - Macross sucks for having cute girls....but you know what? Shadow Chronicles had cute girls too!! Oh no!!! What? Are they supposed to feature asexual characters? Ugly girls? Or maybe no girls - no people - just Robots in Disguise and some generic humans? Fear not though, Robotech fans, for: What the heck? Have these guys ever seen any women? Do they ever get out of the house? I mean - come on. I live out in the boonies too, with trees, grass, and fields surrounding me - but heck most girls nowadays at LEAST wear tight jeans! Go to any city and sit down and look at how people dress...Macross Frontier was a great presentation of modern fashion. You really really really have to either live in a cave to not see that. I'm not even going to go the route that Seto did in one of his earlier posts regarding where these guys work etc, and I'm not going to assume that they live in rural areas or something - because I think that's stereotyping. But clearly there must be something limiting their range of experience with women for them to write stuff like this. And I'm not even going to reference the Minmey butt scene or Misa/Lisa's tight flight suit - because that's been done to death already... My question though is... what is the big deal? How tight is tight? How tight is tight enough? What are they going on about? You know - women have breasts and curves and either they can cover them up or they can wear clothes that underscore their femininity. Macross Frontier does a great job in terms of fashion design. Shadow Chronicles is basically limited to eveybody wearing jumpsuits. going OMG!! over T&A is so pre-pubescent... THEN We are introduced to ROBOTECH FAN TYPE 2.0. [Robotech Fan type 1.0 is of the Memo/Pizza/Doug mould - that is to say ignorant, can't spell, don't even really understand their own beloved Robotech story, having an odd fixation on sex and scared of cute girls.] Robotech Fan, Type 2.0 however - is like Capt. Donovan. If you start a discussion about Robotech and Macross then you are throwing him in the back of the bus. If you make statements or give opinions about the anime and try to debate which is better - you are mean. This type of Robotech fan is the ultimate blank. "Hi. I like Robotech, but don't ask me why. I don't want to know anything and I haven't watched Macross and don't want to. Everybody just needs to squeeze their brains like sponges and when there's nothing left, we can all get along in peaceful ignorant bliss." Or - in the words of this type of fan: In other words: Nothing Matters. Move on. Gotta end it here 'cause I'll go over-quote limit again Pete

anime52k8 - here you go: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry810487 The Two Post critique of Topless Robot's utter stupidity, by Me Macross World Search function/More Options is truly amazing! Pete

You know - I wrote a massive response to that Topless Robot miscarriage of the brain - it's in this thread somewhere...I'll happily try to locate it for you. I assure you that all the shell shocked and traumacy you felt were also felt by me. That Topless Robot article was beyond stupid. It's like we've stumbled on the modern day equivalent of the Cavemen who died out because they insisted that their design for a squaire wheel would eventually triumph over the neighboring tribe's crappy "round" wheel... Well - my point was to just say that Robotech actually deserves better than those guys. I mean - look - it's gotten to the point where I have come to feel sorry that Robotech is stuck with that. I mean - when I recollect my Palladium role playing games - I do recall that there were no laughable spelling errors, no caps lock, and that generally there was an attempt at something intelligent and fun made. And when you watch the shows - they are no where near as bad as how Memo, Mav, Doug etc make them out to be when they praise them. I have come to the conclusion that we have stopped seeing Robotech as Robotech and instead, thanks to Robotech.com and its' membership - we have now developed a far lower estimation of Robotech than was previously had. Stupid is Stupid and Stupid does as Stupid does. they are as far as i'm concern no periods commas or capital letters necessary in this sentence. Ture is a neologism combined "true" and sure" that i invent in my genius. I'm a solo-69'er so thats all that needs to be said. i will remind you not to capitolize 'i' ever and in my fantasy world only the word Robotech (or Macross) is spelt in capitols. Pete

You know what - here's some free advise for Harmony Gold: Dear Harmony Gold - ban Pizza, Memo, Mav and make Gubaba and a couple other Macross fans run the show. Robotech, for all its' faults, really does not deserve the abysmal low it has fallen into on the internet thanks to people who can't write coherent sentences, don't know anything about the franchise and are generally clueless. Seriously - I mean...say what you want about Robotech, but as an 80s product - it was well done. And Shadow Chronicles -for all its' faults - is better than reading Pizza the Hut's posts. These dudes and their ignorance+arrogance are really wreaking havoc on the Robotech franchise IMO. Nobody in their right mind would want to sign up to a forum to hang out with dudes like that. And if that's the future direction of the Robotech franchise and fandom - then that's just sad. Pete Resident Pedophile Nazi Cultist of Macross World

I was thinking of replying to the latest Pizza quotes..but why bother... I'll just remark in passing that Macross was originally intended to be a parody of anime robot/war/space adventure shows - so of-fcuking-course it "copies" a little bit from previous anime. Again - the difference is that Kawamorii & Co. explicitly and openly state where the ideas come from. Meanwhile - HG pretends that Robotech is a coherent story and not a bootleg. Besides - whatever SDFM TV was intended to be, it became something beyond its' intention - and anime in its' own right. I'm not sure to what extent there are similarities between it and Yamato, because I haven't watched Yamato. However, I have watched enough anime to know that all of them basically have robots, aliens, girls and often some complex story that is just under the surface. Pizza's remarks are irritating because they don't GO ANYWHERE. If somebody writes "Macross is just a copy of Yamato" ---well...ok...fine...WRITE MORE!! Write me a damned essay that demonstrates how it's a copy, and in what way. The story? The mecha designs? The main theme? To what extent? Are you saying it's IDENTICAL animation that has been dubbed over after a hapscratch crap new story was written for it? THAT kind of "copy" ... or are you saying there are many similar elements? Or are you saying the concept is used and was copied? WHAT are you saying?? Be Specifice please! I hate it when fans make off hand comments like that as if there was consensus on the issue. I can understand quick snappy one liners when you KNOW that everybody else understands the line of thinking behind the one liner - but ... here... correct me if I'm wrong, but I have never encountered any serious attempts to show that Macross is "nothing more" than a "copy" of Yamato in any way shape or form. As for online shops having trouble bringing Yamato valkyrie in - well - not really. The only real "problem" is that it's impossible for international shops to get Macross from their regional Yamato distribution agents, and instead they need to go through intermediaries. This is why Macross items are pricey - and this is the fault of HG of course... Besides - I don't exactly see how his comment that "online stores are having trouble importing Macross items to sell" is somehow indicative of there being something wrong with Macross or Macross related products. Ah whatever... I was supposed not write a long post about this... It's like - they never have anything new to say. How long is the SDF-1, I have 9000 lessoners and COURT YOU THERE BE GO IT! and that's pretty much it...over and over and over... Pete