sketchley

Oh, and start learning the language. At the very least, it'll help doors open quicker. At most, it'll help you start to understand the culture, which will make you good friends, and help you with your bottem line (as in: understand the words for "sale". So many foreigners who come here and never bother to learn the language litterally walk past so many bargains it's not funny. All because they never bothered to learn one or two words; and yes, they usually end up buying the same thing for a more expensive price.)

Advice - read more than one guide book, as they all have different points of view, and highlight different aspects of the country and culture. Also check out some of the information that may be available through your nearest Japanese embassy, (your country's) embassy in Japan, and any local Japan travel bureau agencies that you can find near you. Take note of local holidays. One of my more pleasant memories, is the picture of a wide-eyed white tourists in Korea, walking past an entire city of closed shops, because they didn't bother to check on Korean holidays nor realize that during Korean thanksgiving EVERYONE closes up shop, and returns to their hometown. There are a few times of the year that the same happens in Japan. When my parents came to Japan, they stayed at Leo Palace 21. Mind you, they stayed for 3 weeks in the same place. the location was good, roughly mid-way between Osaka and Kyoto, making both cities easily accessible for day trips. Believe me, 3 weeks was not enough, and they barely scratched the surface of things to see. The best thing you can do is read guides and information, and make a list of 'would be nice to see' spots. Don't make any hard plans, as once you're hear you might want to visit some place that you didn't know about until after arriving, or you might end up spending a full day at only one site, despite a bunch of other equally intersting sites within a few blocks. Make a (Japanese) friend here before coming via an IM service - or even better, a traveling Japanese in your place of residence. They will be better than the perfect guides. On the airports - Narita generally has the most connections to different places outside of Japan. The new Chuo-bu airport in Nagoya is offering some strong competition to Kansai airport, and it may be cheaper to fly into there, and take a train into Kinki. For transport between Kansai and Kanto, there are numerous options. The cheapest is a red eye bus. The fastest would be a flight - after the new Kobe airport opened, it was cheaper to fly from Kobe to Haneda then it was to take the shinkansen. It probably still is. But, don't be afraid to take an overnight train or some other means that'll allow you to see more of the country. As far as shopping goes, the general rule of thumb is: the easier and/or more convenient it is to get to, the more expensive it'll be. Some of the best places to buy anime and manga goods are slightly off the beaten path. Mandarake is a good place to start, but surprisingly, I've been finding some really good stuff at Book Off for dirt cheap prices.

Remember, this is a Japanese animation. In Japan, what is not said is sometimes just as meaningful and important, if not MORE meaningful and important, than what is said. With the Japanese language, it's best to consider that if it is not directly mentioned, it is open to possibility. Graham mentioned this earlier in this very thread - and I am of the belief that he is aware of this because of where he lives (HK, the last I heard.) People of Asian cultures have a different perceptions of the world than of those cultures that originated in Europe. I have always been of the opinion that the Birdman was what initiated, and controlled the ship(s) anti-gravity. I merely differ on the location of the means of locomotion. The destroyers are another issue on their own - they were also floating, and by the opinion in the preceeding paragraph, the Birdman caused them to float to. It is equally possible that they have anti-gravity generators, as it is for them to be effected by the anti-gravity generator(s) inside of the Asuka II (either the birdman, or the carrier, or both.) The only good reason for having the destroyers float is to remain at the carrier's side if it were to levitate to orbit - thus maintaining their roles as escorts. Yes, and no. It was shown that the VF-0 can operate for short periods of time with the air intakes closed. There is also the possibility of FAST packs and additional manuevering thrusters that can be added. Of course we should keep in mind that the VF-1 was already designed at the time, and the only delays in its release were due to the thermonuclear reaction engines. Its entirely possible that when the design of the Asuka II was approved, UNS felt that by the time the ship was deployed, there'd be a compliment of VF-1 for it. There is also the possibility of replacing it's compliment with the space fighters available at the time (Hound Dog, Lancer II, etc..) Of course, this is speculation, and the Asuka II could simply be a test bed for some of the reverse engineered OT found on the SDF-1 - the prelude to the Prometheus. Agreed that the first three Oberth space destroyers were launched in 2005 (with a total of 125 by the battle with Bodolza) - but remember the history of those first three destroyers - one is hijacked by the anti-UN and used to destroy the returning 'fleet' from Mars, and later being destroyed by another destroyer under the command of Gloval. The Prometheus was 'commissioned' in 2005 - presumably the Asuka II was some time before then. The ARMD (space carriers) were not, however, commissioned until 2009 and later. Meaning that there was no space going carriers until then - thus giving some need to having (conventional) carriers equipped with anti-gravity to perform carrier operations, if needed, in orbit. BTW, IMHO, this discussion of anti-gravity generator or not is relevant to a discussion of the Asuka II. Apologies if you feel otherwise. Grimlock - I was thinking about your post, and the conclusion that I came to is that in navel or ocean-going craft terminology, watertight predates the concept of airtight. There is also less explanation needed when someone mentiones watertight to a mariner (water is kept out = good.) I agree with your thoughts about the fate of those on the Prometheus and Daedelus - perhaps the translations are incorrect, and most, if not all, of the crew that was inside of the ship survived - with only those outside, on the flightdeck, being killed. I have that fan sub too, and to be honest, the line makes no sense whatsoever. It implies that the birdman has taken control of gravity away from Earth! In episode 4 the fansubber has Nora requesting nuclear weapons to bomb Mayan Island - a completely retarded, tactical blunder! They want to capture the Birdman, not irradiate it so that any scientists investigating it die in the process. Not to mention that the bombs at the end of the episode don't explode like a nuclear bomb - they do explode like fuel-air bombs, which is in agreement with what the compendium states that the SV-51 is able to carry: Daisy Cutter fuel-air bombs. Bad English and bad fansubs aside, IMHO, I think the line should be "it is controlling anti-gravity." Though, without the actual Japanese script, the line could be something that the fansubber made up entirely - the Nora/nuke thing leaves me with high doubts about that fansubbers competence with the Japanese language...

Good points. Save that the similar looking engines in the SDF-1 ARE described as anti-gravity generators, in Japanese. Macross Zero is guilty of poor story-telling (start of episode 5, for example,) and so too is SDF:M. Mind you, would it be interesting to see the crew recovering and replacing the anti-gravity generators? No, it takes away from the main storyline of the show, and what the creators want to do in it. Keep in mind that stranger things have occured in fiction. A recent example would be Star Trek: Enterprise, and how it set up events that were part of a TV series produced some 30 years before it. Macross Zero also makes similar assumptions of it's viewers, in as much as that they are aware of some of the basic concepts of Macross - transforming VFs, OT,(giant sized) aliens, and the power of song/music. I guess it also falls into the nature of the audience too - some audiences want or need all the little detail, whereas others either like the mystery, or can figure things out on their own. All that is being asked is that things be looked at with an open mind. This could very well be one of those cases of 'just because the ships can, doesn't mean that they will.' Or, why was the crew of the Asuka so relaxed when their ship started to float in the air? Even with discipline there appeared to be no surprise that the ship is floating, and carrier operations continued normally. I can agree that the birdman instigated, and possibly controlled the anti-gravity generators, but I beg to differ on the actual means of propultion.

It's very possible that the original generators, once they were out of the hull, lost power, and fell back to the island - subsequently being folded along with the SDF-1, and being salvaged from the wreckage of the island. That, or new ones (that worked properly ) were built inside of the SDF-1 during it's return voyage. They definitely had the means, materials, and time, as during the same period, they kept their fighters well stocked, made new fighters, and not only built an entire city inside the ship, but rebuilt it after it was destroyed when the ship transformed at Saturn! Despite it only being 4 episodes later, a number of months passed. Now the funny thing about those anti-gravity engines (as per Macross Perfect Memory,) they are always and ONLY seen immediately before a ship begins using anti-gravity. There is nothing in the lineart contained within Macross Perfect Memory on the 'main engines' of the SDF-1, however, the fold drive can be seen both before (pg. 144) and after (pg. 145) the fold to Pluto, and after (pg. 143) the barrier system has been installed where the fold drive used to be. "Macross Special Preview: Do you remember love?" states that the lower 1/3 of the lower legs are the "main reaction engine" - which makes sense, as that is where the engine nozels are. The upper 2/3 of the lower legs contain the food (life necessity) production block, and (civilian) living quarters in the starboard, and the "busy city" in the port. The military block is in the central chest, with the main waste (garbage) incinerator composing the spine. The two "breasts" contain the sub-reaction engine, and the anti-gravity engines, and the two 'prongs' above the shoulders contain the 'booster cannon.' (pg. 44) No pictures of the actual main engines, but some groovy picts of a young Mari Iijima, and some funky model kit bashes.

Use the anti-gravity generators as a gravity drive. It's not the most manueverable drive system, but it gets the job of transporting stuff (a squadron of fighters, cargo, etc.) to orbit.

That's the best render in 2D and 3D that I have seen of that Flashback 2012 Megaroad-01 support ship! Kudos! Though, on another forum, the consensus was that the nose of that ship was taken from a Zentraedi destroyer and that it contained Zentraedi sensor technology. That was about the extent of what was agreed upon.

The rocks are an entirely seperate issue, as, namely, the birdman is nowhere near them when they are floating. Let's move the spiritia empowered rocks discussion to another thread. The gravity generators on the SDF-1 pulled out for any number of reasons - most likely improper mounting and/or the very frame of the SDF-1 was damaged (and never fixed) when it crash landed. In other words, the ol' "we didn't know that it was broke in the first place" process of reverse engineering. And, don't you mean that the humans couldn't integrate the generators properly into an OT ship? The SDF-1 was never a human ship. Maybe it was renovated to become one. Maybe. Lastly, the fleet in Macross Zero was obviously operational. The first launching that we saw of the SDF-1 was the very first launching of that ship. It didn't have any 'sea' trials, and they had no idea how many bugs were in the ship (as is the case of any new ship being launched.)

They had Mayan glyphs painted on them, and it was the spiritia power of Sara that powered them. A new thought on the Asuka II (and other) anti-gravity debate: why do the ships remain floating after the parts of the birdman have left? By the logic of the arguements against the ship(s) having anti-gravity generators, the ships should have immediately begun falling after the birdman left.

Anime52k8, reread my earlier post, as I put in a potential reason why the destroyers would be equipped with them. Regarding the Prometheus and Daedalus in space: There has been discussion that because anime company 'a' produced the animation of certain episodes, as opposed to anime company 'b', or 'c', that they have a higher number of 'animation errors.' Well, that could be true, HOWEVER, Macross Zero is considered to be free from animation errors, yet it also has navel ships that float, and contain OT generators that look very, very, very similar to the anti-gravity generators that the SDF-1 was equipped with. Makes you think, don't it - makes me think that the ship/position changes that Azrael pointed out could have been the *real* error, and ALL of the ships were meant to be in that scene :!: As for the crew of the Daedalus and Prometheus being killed - the fold came as a surprise to them, right? That would mean that all, if not most of the doors were left open. We are talking about ships that are also semi-submersible, right? At the very least, they would be able to seal the hatches to prevent decompression, despite whatever your opinion is on their ability to 'fly.' Re: the gun barrels I reviewed the rest of episode 5 (have yet to do that for the preceeding four episodes) and the one or two 'good' images that show both gun emplacments are not clear - thus not conclusive. The size of the gun barrel on the left side does appear to be smaller - but that could just be shading, my eyes, etc.. What I suspect is that the frame-model designer merely cut and pasted the same gun design on both sides of the ship. I still maintain the assertation that the gun on the left side of the ship is a non-OT beam cannon. Perhaps some kind of a rail cannon?

I think that both you and the compendium may both be right. Looking closely at the image, the guns, though similar looking, have different sized barrels. Perhaps only one of them is the OT beam gun, the other being a more 'tried and true' conventional cannon of some kind. The compendium lists the OT beam gun as being on the starboard side - starboard being the right side, and the gun on the right side being the one with the larger barrel...

Ok, than please explain what the machinery inside of the Asuka II is, which is activated just before the carrier floats - said machinery looks exactly like the anti-gravity generators on the SDF-1, as per the first two episodes of SDF:M. On the (Japanese) DVD for episode 5, it is viewable in chapter 2, at 4:57 to 5:00. Both the Daedalus and Prometheus were seen in space, in orbit around Earth, in the second episode of SDF:M. Obviously they got their under their own power, and they obviously don't have large rocket engines. Thus they must have achieved orbit via anti-gravity. I fully agree that the AFOS/birdman made them float, just that it did so via powering mechanisms inside of the human ships.

Possibly. I was looking at the color schemes of the VFs provided in the back of one of the Macross Plus books, and only a handful of VFs had 'UNS Air Force' stencilled on their sides. The majority were UNS. There was only one or two, with UNS Marines.

AFOS activated, and possibly powered the anti-gravity generators inside of the ASUKA II. It was not shown that the other ships had them, but given that the ASUKA II was shown as having them, and only started to hover once they were activated, it's logical that the other ships had them - including the Anti-UN submarine. It should also be noted that none of the ships started to fall once the peices of the Birdman left them.

The Macross compendium has contrary data on the number of beam cannons ("Overtechnology beam gun mounted in starboard".) 97.5% of the time, Egan Loo is accurate... Don't forget to include the anti-gravity generators that are in the ship. Which implies that it is essentially the same as the Daedalus and Promethues ships from SDF:M - they are all surface (and underwater capable) ships designed to travel to orbit. One of my theories is that the Daedalus, Prometheus, and possibly other ships equipped with gravity drives* were used in the pre-SWI period to transport materials and personnel to orbit, for the construction of the orbital shipyard, space fleet, space colonies/clusters, and the moon base; possibly even the Mars base. * given the number of ships that floated in the air during the final battle of Macross 0, it looks like the majority of the ships in the UN (surface) fleet are equipped with gravity drives. Propably as a quick retrofit to get space ships before the space Destroyers and ARMD platforms were constructed... just something to keep in mind while fleshing out the Asuka's battle group - they're probably space worthy, and they probably carry Cheyenne Destroids, that are able to move to the parts of the hull that navel ships don't usually have guns mounted on...

I tend to look at the Japanese Self-Defense Force for answers to Macross military related questions. As there isn't a Marines branch of the SDF... questions, questions. What is certain, is that the VA-3M (Marine) exists. It is definitely mission-suited for the Spacy Marines of Macross - if their mission is similar to that of the UK, and US Marines (primarily water to land operations.)

Agreed. I see a bit of CF-18 action going on where the wings and the cockpit blend together. Something not seen in the YF-22.

Yes, it's the Macross version of Star Trek's sub-space communications. In Macross, they use super dimension space. Some people, somewhere, had a theory that the two towers seen in the line art for New Edwards base are, in fact, sub-space communications antenna. EDIT: forgot to mention that the VA-3C (or at least only the Kai version of it,) can also mount a fold booster - a la Macross Dynamite 7 (or at least the line art from that OVA series.)

Yes... Macross is confusing when it comes to this. There are implications that a navy exists - the terrorists/bad guys/revolutionaries in VF-X2 use submarines. As most of their equipment is UN equipment, it's extremely likely that those unmanned submarines are from the UN Navy. As an aside, the submarines are quite big. They contain missile launchers - the missiles being the size of VFs! It makes little sense for the bad guys to design, build, and field submarines, when they have the technology and ability to manufacture space ships (Untamed Destroyer, and Vandal Gunship,) which are infinitely more powerful... Looking at this in an overal, Macross historical way - immediately post SWI, the focus was on the UN Spacy. However, there would still be a need for ground, or terrestrial forces. At the very least, you could view it as different training regimes to provide specialized warriors for the environment (Army = ground, Air = atmospheric, Navy = water (on, and mostly under,) Spacy = space, Marines = de Marines, etc..) After colonization has started, numerous wars break out between, not space based foes, but between colonies and on colonies! There are definite needs for Army, Air Force, Marine, and Navy branches of the army. If you doubt this assertation, I suggest having another look at Isamu Dyson's military record - virtually all of his combat experience was - against other humans, on colony worlds! Looking at the Macross Compendium, a new question has popped into my mind: there are the UN Air Force, UN Spacy, and UN Space Air Force. What's the difference between the UN Spacy and the UN Space Air Force? Weren't pilot's like Isamu, Ichijo, and the rest, members of the UN Spacy?? Is the UN Spacy the proper name for the ships, and their respective crews, in the fleet, with the UN Space Air Force being the proper title of the VF pilots???

Erm... as the VF-11 MAXL, VF-17, VF-19, and VF-22 are all designed to take the fold booster (at the very least, Kawamori has created line art depicting all those combinations,) I don't think that the stress of a fold had much to do with the performance of the fold boosters.* I can't remember the dialogue of the scene 100%, and you may be right. But what I do remember strongly, is that when they defolded, they ejected the boosters right away, and the boosters appeared to be in the throws of malfunction. Therefore, the boosters were maxed out (and quite possibly, the Diamond Force pilots were put through a rough ride en route.) *EDIT: forgot the prototype of the VF-11 - it also apparently can mount and use a fold booster.

Racism is present everywhere... even the whites, who usually get the better treatment, still occasionally feel the sting of it. Ah well, human nature... just smile, and remember that you are an embassador of your country/culture, and it is better to embaress them with politeness, then justify their actions, with a racist or bigoted response. I think the best way to sum up the relationship is a quote from an ex-Korean g/f when asked if the young people in Korea hate Japanese as much as the older generations do - "as long as they come with money to shop with, we don't care about history." The same could be said about the youth of Japan - they don't really care, and prefer the easy/lazy route.

Ok... going back to the original post, to disect it... You are mentioning some very important things for the nature of the fold, but overlooking a key point: the size of the fold "bubble." The really big space folds (sic. point to point) create a 'bubble' that is larger than the ship, or object, and tend to transport more than the ship, or object. Examples would be the SDF-1 carting along South Ataria island, and the group of Varuta ships that surrounded the City 7 section. The smaller space folds (sic. partial styled fold) only effect the ship, or object being folded. The best example is the Zentraedi Flagship in DYRL - Hikaru and Minmei escape in a VT-1 just after the ship enters fold. The moment that they are outside of the ship (essentially outside of the fold 'bubble',) they reappear in real space. Luckily for them, it was within the atmosphere of Earth, and not deep space, or worse, INSIDE of Earth. In other words, it looks visually cool if ships appear to accelerate into space fold, but it would look rediculous and laughable if large objects (South Ataria island, for example,) are also seen accelerating into a space fold. Perhaps something to consider is the initial speed of the vehicle, or object, prior to spacefold. In Macross Plus, the YF-19 was already travelling at high speed before entering the space fold. That explains why it 'zips' into a fold. The question then becomes, why, when the same vehicle reappears in normal space, in orbit around Earth, is it not moving? I think some time should be spent looking at what little information has been provided by the creators of Macross on the subject: Shinnakasu Industry/OTEC FBF-1000A external prototype fighter fold booster (currently not certified for performing beyond an one-way limit of 20 light years.) From: http://macross.anime.net//mecha/united_nat...yf21/index.html This limitation was highlighted in Macross 7, when Diamond Force folded to the captured City 7, and the fold boosters begain sparking in a dangerous way. The information also clearly states that despite the amount of energy, or charge, applied to a fold drive, there is still a maximum limit. In this case, the fold drive could probably go beyond 20 light years, but how much further until it becomes dangerous? It is definitely not a 'go anywhere' device. I also am of the opinion that the distance that a fold drive can go is based on a) how much energy it can store up in capacitors before folding, and b) how long before the device begins malfunctioning - overheating, for a lack of a better word. As for the nature of space folds in general: "(...) a fold transports a spacecraft in a very short amount of time by first swapping the location of the spacecraft with super dimension space or subspace, and then swapping the super dimension space with the space at the destination. " http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclopedi...fold/index.html In other words, no fold is instantaneous, some just appear to occur faster, because less distance is travelled. The distance of a space fold is entirely dependent on a) how far the space fold generator can travel, and b) how much energy is applied to it. Mechaninac, you are close with your description of required times. From the last link provided above: "(...)an hour passes in super dimension space as approximately ten days passes in normal space." If I'm not mistaken, the fold from Earth to Bodolza's HQ in "First Contact" took approximately 1 hour. However, after escaping and returning back to Earth (in the next episode), 20+ days had passed on Earth. Sadly, no indication on the distance travelled at that time, nor are there any other definite indications of the amount of time spent in fold in any later productions. I guess we could look at the fold to Pluto, as that length of time is documented... but at the same time, was it artistically made to look longer, to increase the tension of the scene?

I originally heard of him from the storm trooper thing. And that's about all that I've really heard of him. I agree that hthe layout of his sight is terrible, and it is difficult to impossible to find stuff. As for his living the otaku dream - glad that I don't consider myself an otaku any longer. The lifestyle sounds so... hollow, and empty.

Did they ever have the Macross Plus or Macross 7 rights? I don't think so. What they did have is the rights to the VF-X2 game. There are a couple more kits that they could release from that - but the chance of that happening is slim, as they have probably already felt that there won't be enough market demand to justify the investments needed to produce the remaining kits. Which kits am I referring to? VF-17, VA-3M, VB-6, etc..

Big discussion on Macross cloning, population growth, and so on. Worth reading as it is relevant to the topic: http://macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=823.0