Sundown

O_o. She can prosecute me anytime. -Al

Okay, I'd better define "author's intent" for myself before I get into more trouble. I define intent as the collective intent of the entire creative staff-- they might have differences amongst them that lead to outright contradictions in the final work-- but what is the intent they seem to largely agree on at the time of creation? Images and dialogue suggest themes and things. They are not just words and pictures we can pick apart, use and misuse, for our own ends. Of course what I think the "intent" is is largely understood by what the creators choose to show (and don't show) me in the first place. So maybe "apparent intent" is a better word. "Apparent intent" is what seems to be the apparent message when watched or viewed in context of the author's culture, message, and with a good helping of common sense. This might seem a circular definition-- intent is based on what we see and hear, and the meaning of what we see and hear is based on intent-- and in some degree, it is. But it is circular only when an author or creator is a poor communicator or we're a poor audience. A poor communicator can't say what he means. A poor audience is apt to reinterpret things as they please and use the words and pictures of a fiction in ways they weren't meant to be used. But an astute audience strives to understand the thoughts of a creator and seek intent in the creation. And a creator gives the audience enough to go on if they pay attention. When we are both doing our jobs perfectly, what we see and understand and what he intends are no longer circular. They are one and the same. If what we see happens to differ from what's in an author or authors' mind, then we have to conclude that that parts of the production are just screwed up. If the intent then causes them to make derivative works that take the artistry out of the original work, then we can no longer trust the authors with their own creation. No contrived rules of interpretation will fix this schism. The only thing such rules will fix is the little fictional reality we want to live in, at the cost of much of the artistry that made the fictional reality appealing in the first place. So am I arguing that we should interpret by TV images and dialogue alone, since this seems to be the case with Robotech? I'll get to that... Within limits of reason, of course. The aforementioned Scott never taking a dump in his life is an example. The problem is that what's "within reason" seems to vary depending on the person concerned. For example, I would argue that it's unreasonable to count the ships vaporized in a frame and conclude that the rest survived, when more damage out of frame seems to be implied (by the nature of the destruction, by the notable absence of a shot showing survivors, and by the expectations of retribution for those who just tried to destroy Earth) -- because it's simply bad storytelling to expect a viewer to do so. Except where 'intent' is changed afterwards. There are limits to 'author's intent'. Sure, but there are also limits to how much an intent can be changed, and who can validly change them. Intent being changed 20 years after the fact when the scene worked fine before doesn't smell valid to me... especially change forced by a sequel that's no longer under the creative direction of the majority of the original staff. If sequels force a reinterpretation of the scene, but in fact removes much of the meaning in the scene, or causes it to be a show of poor storytelling, then we must question the worthiness of the sequel rather than trying to force fit the original into the sequel's continuity at the expense of the original's artistry. Sometimes a balance can be made, and a little of the original's artistry can be sacrificed if the sequel offers something more in return. At other times, it just shows that the people involved in creation don't have their act together at all. For those reasons, I prefer to interpret with an eye on the original apparent intent of the author or authors at the time, and what the original work seemed to show. I do this with SDF in light of Macross 7 and I do this with the original Star Wars films in light of the new ones. Instead of trying to cobble together some fictional reality that I can live in, I simply conclude that some people need to be smacked for their questionable changes in tastes and aesthetics, especially when they force their masterpieces to be reinterpreted. This is why I have serious issues with the latter in both franchises. At any rate, the scene in question (ships, Regis, Boom!) doesn't pose problems if we interpret the image as suggesting much/most/all of the fleet was destroyed. The impression and intention we get as viewers, by the imagery shown and dialogue spoken, is that the fleet suffered heavy losses and the Regis is powerful. The only thing this conclusion violates is the silly principle that we can only make conclusions based on what we see on screen. Okay, what you're describing isn't how "author's intent" is an unworkable principle. You're actually describing how screwed up Robotech's continuity is (at least when its sequels are factored in), and because it's so screwed up, we're forced to choose either one or the other-- what we see, or what we think one author of many intended. But using artificial constructs to interpret screwed up storytelling in order to arrive at an agreeable continuity isn't really an enterprise that I think is worthy of our efforts in the first place. Keeping the details straight wasn't a goal worthy of the original authors, so why should we care so much? I think on some level we're just doomed to fail. And some gaffs are meant to be ignored, if we're going insist on enjoying that work of fiction. I never made that argument explicitly, although I probably should have clarified. My real stance on the issue is that nothing really matters, because the authors seem unskilled at keeping together a coherent continuity-- and using the TV series as a guide is probably your best bet, so I would agree that the TV series and what's actually shown and said in most cases override one author's (Macek's) intent, or at least suggests a collaborative intent by several authors (Macek along with the rest of the staff). In this case, I would consider Macek's "intent" those undeveloped ideas that he never let go of, even when the rest of production had already agreed to do so or struck out in a different direction. The exception I take to that is when the imagery conflicts with the author's intent in some minor, obscure way that is unknown to the author, most audiences, most of the production crew, and most anyone who is involved in determining what an image or line of dialogue says or means. If a few internet geeks in their quest to make fiction real assert that Endor was destroyed because an explosion of something as big as a death star above Endor's moon would have been cataclysmic to the sanctuary moon's ecosystem-- I remain dubious until Lucas says so one way or another, even if their math works out, and even if the imagery clearly shows one thing or another that would lead to their inescapable conclusion. And lastly, author's intent does override fan speculation and interpretation in matters that are not conclusive-- including their reconstructions made by adhereing to the artificial rules of interpretation they've given themselves. Using the TV series as the measuring stick is a tool. A helpful one in such a convoluted continuity as Robotech. But sometimes a fan needs to get their head up and realize that that tool isn't needed everywhere, and there are safe places to put away that tool and use artistry and common sense as a guide. For what it's worth, I actually like Robotech. But I've long since given up on making it live as a cohesive rational whole in my head. We'll see how long that lasts after this post. -Al

I know I'm hardly a poor reader, but with subtitles, I simply can't focus on characters' facial expressions as intently or admire the visuals as much as I'd like. I have no problem listening to Japanese, but even subtitles rarely convey the eloquence and delivery of the actual dialogue by the actual actors-- unless they're worked over really well by real writer types. Most subtitles would be considered poorly written dialogue if they'd showed up as is in a script. And then there's the realism factor for me. When watching Legend of the Galactic Heroes, it just strikes me really, really odd that both the Galactic Empire and the Free Planet Alliance-- with characters that were very German, very French, very British, or very Chinese-- would all be speaking Japanese. That just seems off. Same reason that it makes more sense to hear the characters speak English in the MGS series than it does for them to speak Japanese. Nope, but art for the artist's sake alone is mastabatory. (I didn't make that up.) There's a fine balance to be made, but it needs to be made with a target audience in mind. And sometimes, letting an artist do his own thing without direction from those who are skilled at giving such guidance results in something that is actually in the end, less artistic. -Al

Psst. Let's not confuse "assertion" and "rhetoric" with "evidence". Evidence would constitute the plot elements and character analyses of the main characters in several Gundam features that showed that they weren't angsty, whiny teenagers. I would count 0080 amongst those that didn't feature a whiny, angsty kid... but that might be why I like it especially over the other Gundams that I've seen. Wait... actually, the male protagonist was kind of whiney. But at least he wasn't a whiney NewType who was in actuality uber. He was just some schmoe who didn't particularly want to be there in that war. I hardly think he's trying to enforce his ideas upon everyone else. That's just a tad unfair. He's merely open to alterations that some others might better enjoy. I myself wouldn't mind watching a Macross dub if it were good along with an updated score, which is one of the things that still makes me wince even when I'll readily admit that the original Macross is far better than Robotech. No one is saying to burn the original Macross and make it unavailable for viewing. No one is being Lucas here. Some people like options, and some people like updates, but I know providing that sort of thing is heresy to some, unless it's something sanctioned by Kawamori himself-- ie, DYRL with its updated SDF designs, Mac 7 updating Macross with mystical pseudoscience and 90's J-Pop, and Mac 0 updating Macross with CG. Kawamori in effect reinvents and updates Macross at every turn-- in a way that actually turns many original SDF fans off-- the exact thing that you seem to stand against. Sure, he didn't update the original masterpiece (thank goodness), but he did show that he wasn't above following fads and redefining Macross's continuity. Err, I didn't know intelligence was somehow correlated to personal preference when it comes to subs and dubs. Fact is: reading subtitles is an entirely different experience from intently watching the animation while listening to the dialogue. The reason I would rather read subtitles and listen to the original voice actors is because dubs by and large stink. The acting is usually crummy and many of the subtle meanings are lost. The dialogue is often either forced because the original dialogue doesn't translate well into a different culture or translators take way too many liberties in the translation and inject too many pop-culture references that are quickly dated. However, if a dub was both faithful, natural, and well-acted, it would present an experience much closer to what a native speaker experiences from the original than I would from trying to read dubs. So I would rank the experiences as follows: 1. Watching a film/animation in the original language, and understanding the language. 2. Watching a film/animation dubbed into a language I can understand-- with superb voice acting and a faithful but culturally relevant translation. 3. Watching a film in the original language with subtitles. 4. Watching a mediocre dub, or any dub that falls short of the original in drama, emotion, or meaning. Seeing as how I don't understand Japanese, and how there are currently few dubs that would qualify under 2 according to my extremely high standards, I would by and large prefer 3-- subtitles-- when it comes to watching anime. But if dubs actually existed of such a calibre that they qualify under 2, and would provide me with roughly the same experience a Japanese viewer would have (albiet in a different language) instead of having to watch something with my eyes spent at the bottom 3rd section of the screen parsing text a good part of the time, I would gladly watch them. But maybe that's just because I'm stupid. He's hardly whining. He is however noticing and voicing some things that some of us have gotten used to around here, and being new, he's much more keen in seeing and calling out the "I'm right, you're wrong, therefore (and largely because) you're stupid" mentality of what passes for discussion in these forums. Civil disagreement is one thing. Knee-jerk criticism is a whole other. The former actually cares about the opinions and thoughts of the one they're engaging in dialogue with-- with hopes that their own views will be heard and perhaps even accepted in turn. The latter is simply content in being "right" and in bashing everyone else over the head who happens to disagree, sometimes pinning unflattering and false motivations upon them for the views they hold and why they express them. Encountering large volumes of disagreement might even make them feel special, as they become signs that they're the few who really know how it is. Been there and done that, so I know the allure and rewards of having unpopular views that we're convinced are absolutely right. I suppose some of these rewards might be those that come naturally from sticking to our guns about things we care about-- but I don't think the freedom to be inconsiderate, over a 20 year old animation of all things, is something any of us are particularly entitled to. *shrug* -Al

See, that's where you clowns lose me. You can't look at that image, count things up, and then state definitively the casualty figures for the fleet and then proceed to tell someone that they are definitely wrong and need to get their eyes checked based on your interpretation of it. Well, see, actually according to that image, only approximately 1/6 of that cruiser in the top corner was destroyed, because only that much of it is visible in that frame. We must conclude that if the entire cruiser was entirely destroyed, the show's makers would have shown all of it, and not left most of it out of frame. So there's a ship out there with a neat triangle cut out of it. Phear the Regis's power. It's easy for fans to get drawn into details and start using specific imagery to back up their own versions of continuity (which had been intentionally left vague by the creators). When they do so, it's often easier for them to set down arbitrary and absolute rules on how imagery and dialogue should be interpreted-- for instance, only 10 ships were shown destroyed so no more than that actually were-- and it gives them a sense of having something concrete to work with, which is kind of comfortable for someone into nitpicky details and specifics. But this approach tends to ignore the aesthetics of storytelling, and the entire reason why the creators and animators might have chosen certain shots and showed certain things in the first place. For example, perhaps the animators thought that a close shot would show the destruction better, on a more personal level. But they also showed that the destruction wasn't isolated to those ships shown by the fact that at least some of the wake was outside of the shot. The impression the viewer is supposed to get is that there was a lot of damage, and likely much if not all of the fleet was destroyed-- because the animators didn't show surviving ships either. If it was important that the viewer know that most of the fleet remained, they would have shown it. But as it stands, it seems that by the animators' artistic use of camera angles we should conclude that much of the fleet was probably destroyed, and there might or might not be survivors, likely few. We are supposed to marvel at the Regis's power, not to count specks on the screen and conclude in relief that most of the force was actually safe. Ultimately, holding storytellers to some rule that forces them to either show visually or explain through dialogue everything that did or didn't happen is to hold them to an artificial constraint that they never held themselves to. What's ultimately important is the intent of a creator, what we think the storyteller is trying to imply, and not our own desire to have everything happen shown or told explicitly. -Al

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who know binary, and those who don't. -Al

Doesn't have to be a VF-1J. Full-scale Millia would do nicely also. I'm not picky. -Al

Looking for the following: 1/48 VF-1A CF front left landing gear door 1/48 Hip Rubber Cap 1/48 Antenna Fin in white (you know, the little fin that comes out the hole in the hatch, behind the airbrake in fighter mode) For the first two parts, I'd be glad to send the parts that I have that I'm trying to replace... they have cosmetic defects/wear but otherwise work fine. I unfortunately don't have another antenna. Please PM with an offer/price. -Al

They better do a mean job with the makeup and he'd better be stellar in his acting, because the man does not exactly look Bond. Of the IMDB pictures I looked through, only a few vaguely even resembled someone who could play Bond... at times he looks more like Phil Collins or Bill Gates than Bond. His head is just... way too round. That picture above isn't too shabby though. Haggis... the man's named after a nasty Scottish intestinal dish? -Al

Right before I clicked, I thought... hey, with Owen and Beru figures, a charred version wouldn't be a hard custom to make. I'm glad Kenner has kindly done the work for us. As dark is the joke is, I think what tops it off is that one limb that sticks out defiantly. -Al

They're taking their sweet time... apparently they've been splitting their time between LotGH and Mac 7, which I don't know whether to be angry about or thankful for... And now I've got a new dilemma. It seems there's another set of subs floating around that's got much better video quality, with passable subs-- not as good as Central's but still considered very decent. I hate decisions. -Al

This thread's piqued my curiosity enough that it's gotten me watching... I'd seen a couple episodes way back and thought they were interesting enough, but never really got into it, partly because of how bloody long the series is. But since then, I've become a bit more of a military and tactics geek, and really dig how the series resonates with WWII-- same reason I dig old school Star Wars. What's weird is that I'd actually been playing a bit of Homeworld, and I ended up predicting the tactics Lohengramm and Yang used in the first couple episodes. That was fun, although it made me a little dubious of the depth of LOTGH's tactical realism if an armchair semi-military buff was outguessing some of the series' tactical geniuses in their best moments. Maybe it gets even better. Anyone know if Central Anime has subbed or is planning to sub beyond episode 45? -Al

Turning a discontinued 1A into a VF-1D?! O_o Why not simply buy a Hikaru TV VF-1J that's about to be re-released and turn that into the VF-1D, keeping your 1A intact? -Al

Nuts. I just realized from someone's description of a 55mm round that the GU-11 is basically akin to a rapid fire WW2 tank cannon. Nuts!! Well, 55mm ammo against 50 foot tall giants scales down to something around 6.6mm against 6 foot tall humans. Something like a 6.6mm high-powered rifle round (not a pistol round, mind you) could be pretty darn devastating. -Al

That is so dorky on so many levels of awesome!! -Al

Hikaru... sounds, dare I say it, a lot like Tony Oliver. Not that I consider that a bad thing. Misa's voice is not too shabby either. -Al

Rick. Looks. Stupid. I don't see how 30 years of aging makes someone look like they had massive hormone therapy. Why couldn't they just use skinny Rick, slap on some grey and wrinkles, and give him a cool hat? That said, I find it silly that any of us Macross fans would have problems with unimaginative aliens. The Zentradi are 60 foot tall humans with multicolored skin... and later 60 foot tall humans with odd cerebral growths. The Protodevlin are the aforementioned hentai space bulldogs. Sivil is a space-elf with attire designed specifically to enhance her bust, and triangles for nipples. Ishtar is a scantily clad space-diva with yellow targets plastered upon and calling attention to her boobies (Do you see a trend?). The Marduk are as human as the Zentradi are. Even Southern Cross's enemy consisted mainly of musical human clones. Mospeada went so far as to make the Invid truly alien, being odd crab/slug like creatures doused in slime, and their queen an energy being. But hey, watch, they evolve! Into... surprise! Humans. But I do agree... the Sentinel designs aren't great, primarily because they look like they're trying to rip off cliches-- devils, amazons, magicians, and bears, oh my-- rather than present gear and attire that's disturbingly alien or odd, even if the aliens themselves are physically pretty much human. -Al

Preferably TV 1A heads. -Al

Any updates on this here? Would love a recast for a TV-1A Custom of my own. =D EDIT: Should have read the thread before I posted. What's Rohby's status on recasting these? -Al

Okay, don't see my name on the list yet... so again, sign me up for one, pigmented. Thanks! -Al

Actually, I've always found Max's original voice a tad too deep, especially for his pretty-boy looks. Then again, I saw Robotech first, and had imprinted into my psyche that Clarke is what Max should sound like. I guess pretty-and-andrygynous-Bishonin-boy-with-deep-voice is a staple in Japanese anime, even though it just comes across as all sorts of weird to an Western audience. Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 2 was also cast differently, with the English voice actor having a much higher voice while the Japanese original's was much deeper and booming. Same goes for Snake, actually. They just love that deep voice. If the Japanese had their way, all male Star Wars characters would be played by James Earl Jones. -Al

Fortunately, Halo doesn't take place on Earth. -Al

Actually, it was explained in the Graphic Novel, however un-canon that is. The Flower of Life's life force is so strong that when its seed is contained in a stasis field, its attempt to germinate and resist the field produces vast quantities of heat and energy that can be harnessed to power, say, giant mecha. Of course if such a seed was actually properly applying that energy towards growth and germination, then a stasis field capable of containing it would require as much external energy as the seed was generating, with a net gain of zero. -Al

I actually prefer the smaller busted sculpt to the new sculpt, as it better matched her slim waist and figure. Her breasts look a tad too far apart and look like they're pointing a little too much away from each other... might look better to bring them together a bit and back it down a notch. -Al

Please add me to the list for a pigmented 1D conversion kit as well.