TG Remix
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Well that's one way to keep him grounded. 😆 Does illustrate that both the Ghost and the music wasn't the problem, but a mad scientist's involvement that slightly looks but completely sounds suspiciously like Max. Even in Macross, Show Hayami can't escape playing the villain! Could also look at the differences between that and the M3's Variable Glaug to the first and second generation VF-19 models; basic general shape with a noticeable difference in performance. Though on a similar note, I'm wondering about the VF-19P and if it was an export model that was directly based off of Basara's custom, or it just so happened to look like it. That...Is entirely new to me! Definitely explains a lot regarding the series tone all things considered. On the topic of things Plus related, my mind goes to the VF-19ACTIVE Nothung, and how the Nothung II is three reassembled VF-11B's. Now I'm not sure if the Macross Wiki is a trustworthy source, but the Battroid and Gerwalk forms look almost exactly like the VF-19ACTIVE, which if those pictures are accurate I'm wondering how does a Thunderbolt look like an Excalibur in any shape or form.
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Sorry for the double posting, but I just caught this too. Makes a lot of practical sense. I know 7 production wise came out shortly after and during Plus, but not considering how the New Macross colonization ships had better living conditions then the Megaroad class, those long distance colony fleets could take a long while before finding a good planet to live in and, well could drive anyone insane, Though now you mention it I didn't realize how much mind control was in the whole franchise after SDF until now.
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Well, a certain YF-19 test pilot probably wouldn't be too happy to find that out. 😅 Though I'm kinda surprised the introduction of a potential all-unmanned fleet and the lift of the banned Sharon music only took five years to do so. Would've assumed at least for the former they were a decentralized NUNS effect around 2050 then right on 2045. Though if Macross Plus: Game Edition is to be believed, the Neo Glaug got off pretty well with it's updated variant as the VBP-1/VA-110 Neo Glaug bis. what with its own Pinpoint Barrier System and ability to control 3 unmmaned fighters as well. Though, I'm not sure if even though it's not as high performing as the VF-19 and VF-22, the fact only a Meltran could tap to its full potential makes me wonder if they were built in considerable widescale numbers.
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I see that makes a bit more sense. It's funny to think every single contender in Project Super Nova just never really had their intended purpose fully realized. Even with VF-19's and AIF-7S becoming main fighters in certain fleets it's through noticeable limitations. Though on the subject of Sharon, I read after she took over Macross City, the whole truth of the matter of the incident was only known by the UN government and her music was banned for a bit (at least until by the time of 7.) But by Frontier and Delta it seems like the Sharon Apple Incident, or at least most of the truth, is more common knowledge then before. I'm just wondering when was the time frame people know about her going insane or even her mind controlling people through music.
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Rewatching some VF-X2 walkthroughs again, I'm curious about the use of X-9 Ghosts in not only Macross City's Defense Line (Mission 11B My Fair Lady) and those deployed from the Macross 13 (Mission 12: Remember Love.) In-universe their mass produced counterparts QF-4000 (AIF-7S) were in production circa 2045, 5-6 years before VF-X2's events, but I'm wondering since it was a game released before their appearance in Frontier, I'm wondering why would the UN make more of them after the Ghost Project was abandoned after Sharon's stint.
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So for a while I've been planning out my Macross story idea for a bit, and this is actually the fifth draft overall. I wanted to focus on the worldbuilding aspects of the Macross world, particularly the ins and outs of a autonomous government populated by Zentradi. And feedback and comments are well appreciated!
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From what I gathered, if some fleets come across a planet that's not Class-A habitable planet the would at least try to modify the environment to their liking, like the Macross 4 did with Sephira from 30; like some kind of terraforming. Though it's not guarantee to go well, since Eden-3's colony had to be abandoned by the fleet that discovered it, but I got the impression, like you pretty much explained, they work with what they got. Though it does make me wonder, if a emigrant fleet does come across a planet regardless of how habitable it is, would they plant all of their resources into it, or would they plant some and move on their way to other planets? IIRC the Megaroad-04 discovered Eden before voyaging to Windemere in 2060.
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Oh, so they were less "official" fleets and more ragtag by comparison. Kinda misunderstood that and thought up of the Zentradi Macross 5 fleet instead, lol. I thought they were an explanation or an allusion the the unseen colonial ships with only Zentradi in them that Kawamori mentioned in the Otana Anime review. Though when I read "anti-Earth" I thought they were just against Earth's policies and rules (like no macronized Zentran) and not terrorists/rogue. Okay, so that also contextualizes the more decentralized NUN in Frontier and Delta in a way. Basically cutting ties in such an extreme only hurts them in the long run, especially at a time when you're given much more autonomy then before. And since the Windemere's being mentioned I'm so glad I'm watching Delta again so I can follow this with more context.
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Continuing the topic of colonies or fleets that immediately cut ties with Earth, would it be possible for them to get new UN technologies, like the Macross 7 with their VF-19F's and VF-22S's, and the Frontier and Galaxy with the base plans for the YF-24 to make the Messiah and Lucifer respectively, or they have to settle with that they got since launching and go from there?
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No argument there; makes complete practical sense after yet another Zentradi attack on your biggest and most monumental city just happened. I'm just being a (recently-realized) Zentradi fanboy about it. Though on the more unbiased side, I believe Zentradi racism is one of those things that are mentioned here and there (Concerns with Nousjadeul-Ger's being used for target practice on Eden and a uncouth comment President Glass Howard made in Frontier iirc) but aren't one of the huge focuses either. That, and with the Variable Glaug the UN or any other customer not above to use and widely adopt stolen designs from those mentioned as well. Though in that case it was made from a stolen VF-4, so it's pretty much a cycle...Like Gundam.
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Well that makes Earth a bit less interesting. 😝It would make sense though for them to leave around that time. Though I'd assume the UN would be a bit more in contact with them. Though considering cases like fold faults maybe it's difficult it they weren't done on purpose. Wonder if they would still call themselves apart of the NUNS. Though from the background of the Queadluun-Alma and Feios Valkyrie, Zentradi rogues are a lot more linked then I thought they'd be. Well, enough for a rogue fleet to kidnap a idol group and Black Rainbow to acquire the latter fighter. Part of me wonder if they make up part of those Zentran-only fleets and governments or they just have very good connections.
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Huh, I just thought it was just a rebranding thing. Many symbols and insignia's change over time, but UN property to be non-uniform is also likely. The idea of Rogue Zentradi basically forming their own culture/government outside NUNS rule isn't entirely implausible, considering Kamjin's entire rebellion in the last stretch of SDF. Though sort of a related note, I did come across Sketchley's translation for Macross Chronicle's Emigrant Ships, and I came across interesting tidbit: I would've imagine mostly/only Zentradi emigrant fleets would've popped up here and there earlier then 2031 (Also probably a good minimal outlier when the Macross 5 launched), though it's kinda intriguing/concerning almost all of them lost contact afterwards, assuming they're still under UN government rule.
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I wonder if even the governments closer to earth such as Eden would also wish autonomy as well. IIRC a Macross Ride character lost his parents to one of those kinds of civil wars. Though if I can come back to the short distance emigrant fleets, would they stay around the 100 ly radius on Earth, or would they find themselves jumping between planet to planet as long as they're 100 ly away for a guarantee shorter trip?
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It does make the franchise a bit more unique in that regard I think. Wonder what was happening around 2008 that made the YF-24 -> VF-25 and VF-27 parallels to happen. It is a common thing a noticed too! I think aside from those, the other even-numbered fleets like the mentioned Macross 4 are in side stuff like video games. It was (half-jokingly) another reason for me wondering about Kawamori's opinion on Macross II, lol. To segway into something kinda-related, I was trying to dig up interesting information for Macross, and there was the notions that the UN after SW1 was a "military dictatorship with elected civilian representation" before the 2040's/2050's; hence a Revolution War happened in 2037. I know Earth supremacy and colony disputes were a thing, and a issue we saw was Earth had the final say of what goes regardless on how much it screwed certain governments over, but I wouldn't know if "dictatorship" would be as strong as a word to describe it.
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I wonder if the emphasis on stealth was Kawamori's more subtle ways of distancing himself from Macross II. It does make logical sense, since SDF did prove even though they can deal with Zentradi, trying to combat a whole fleet would result in inevitable casualties; so to them and most other colonies and fleets, it'd be better to not take the risk overall. Though, I can imagine after Frontier, Earth and some other colonies would be a bit more cocky about winning against threats like the Protodevlin and Varja, and invest in being more on the offensive end like the Macross II UN has. I see, that makes a bit more sense. Still wouldn't be a majority, but still could find themselves in some kind of use. (There's also the case of smaller versions of the Meltradi ships in VF-X2, but I'm leaning more on them being downscaled for gameplay purposes then in-universe) Speaking of size, I don't think we ever got official numbers of the Variable Glaug's size, or those of battroid forms of the likes of the Cutlass or Feios Valkyrie. Right, iirc the Megaroad-06 and Megaroad-09 were "under investigation" in Frontier's animated map.
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I'd have to assume they're not the only ones that have that ideology in the UN. Both Birdman and Space War I did show with enough gusto they could fight against a full blown Zentradi fleet. That and I'd imagine there would be more ships build that were based on the Zentradi battleships combat capabilities then just the Battle class. Unless I'm just spewing nonsense and just being hopeful, lol. Though on that note, I did recently find out I from a Kawamori interview that not only some Zentradi ships were converted into colony ships, but only 100 of them (?) were around by Frontier. I know the UN prefers more smaller stealthier ships, but I'd honestly assume there'd be more then that around. Though for the colony ships, I'd expect those LST's to be converted, since they were the least heavily armed of the bigger ones, and have been used for transportation anyways. Just read this. Probably just nonsense I'm speaking then. 🤪 So the official number of planets around are 160? Or that's just a estimation?
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I thought the command ship was also a local Varauta design that were modified by the Protodevlin. And not like the UN Spacy had a complete disdain of building massive commandships, since not only a few Zentradi ships were used/made by UN have been spotted, but also the complete redesign the Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis from 7 had with its hull. Right, I remember they also used different ships, like the not-Musai class Deneb cruiser. I guess it's not uncommon for colonies and fleets to utilize other ship designs that aren't the standard kind, they just wouldn't be popular as the likes of the Northamptons and Guantánamo carriers. Though, any more information on the Epsilon Foundation? (Unless it's a Delta thing, in which case less spoilers as possible, lol) I think it's less like they have control over the remaining Varauta Army (all survivors would have returned to normal by then), but they have the Satellite Factory that was able to create as much of the Elgerzorene's, Panzerzorene's, and so on to create. Basically Fasces iirc wanted variable craft with the spirit absorption beams. I am aware that the UN has more factory satellites under their control (around 20 iirc), and it makes me wonder where they're spread throughout their grasp on the galaxy. I'm aware the Regult one from SDF was placed between a Lagrange point between the Earth and the Moon, and the Queadluun-Rau factory that was going restoration near Eden. Would they be moved to the more "important" key places of the UN, or any regular colony fleet/government that comes across one can keep one if they stumbled onto one?
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Makes sense to me. Though I feel the VF-5000 would be the exception as it also took the role of the main fighter until the VF-11. The more I hear about Varauta pre-Protodevlin the more I wonder how different or standard their procedures are from other colony planets and governments we know of. I know production wise they stand out so they can look visually distinct from the protagonists, but it's interesting to think about the universe of Macross. And I have mentioned Variable Bombers, and it's making me wonder if we have any visuals of the VB-171, or at least an idea of how different they look from the regular Nightmare Plus.
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So, looking through some of the production numbers of Variable craft in general, I'm just wondering on how much some have been built overall. The VF-1 had 5,459 built and the VF-4 with 8,245, so pretty decent numbers especially during the pioneer years of long distance fleets. 2nd generation Variable craft it hard for me to think about, since they all were striving to be more cost effective then the previous two. So I'd imagine similar numbers, but I feel it depends on how many colony planets were around at that time. The VF-11 and VF-171 I can assume they're widespread to the point it's easier to count what fleets didn't use them. The VF-14 a bit less, but enough numbers for the Varauta Army alone to posses ~7000 of them to be modified into Fz-109's. VF-17's had 718 built, which makes sense due to them being Special Forces Valkyries. Variable Attackers I'd imagine a bit less would be made, and even lower numbers with Variable Bombers. Though VA's I've heard be used as the main aircraft of certain fleets, so it's not as if they're rare. The hardest to judge would have to be the VF-19 and VF-22's. It's already limiting enough that they were put under massive restrictions to be used on colonies and emigration fleets, but aside from the VF-19EF's (156 overall) and VF-19C's (iirc the most built variant of the Excalibur), I don't think we ever got a grasp on how many overall were built.
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That also got me a bit curious. I know the lineart of the designs doesn't necessarily say how one aircraft fransforms (Because, honestly through that almost none of the suits from 7 should have a Gerwalk mode) but would the bis-type have a Battroid form like the Variable Glaug? Kinda hard to say since most of the mechs from The Ride don't really showcase other modes other then them being Fighters.
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Oh, so it's more like a generalization thing, I get it. Oh, didin't know the Quilqua type was also from the Stellar Republic. Thought that was a very customized suit from Emilia. Yeah, it's the same thing as acting the Neo Glaug is the exact same as the Variable Glaug. Actually, would the Alma even be considered transformable?
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I kinda looked into your site's page of the VF-14, and apparently Macross Chronicle suggests that both the VF-14 Vampire AND the VA-14 Hunter seemed to be popular with Zentradi. It's still funny to me how that and the VA-3 are pretty much the few Variable Attackers we know that we see onscreen (Or as much as we can.) I could see them being the main aircraft of a remote emigrant planet somewhere (Considering despite seeing VF-11's with the Macross 5 iirc, their main aircraft was still the VA-14.) Apparently there was also the existence of the VB-X-2 "Spirit of the Galaxy" that was said to be built to be piloted by a still-macronized Zentradi. Any more data on it, even if it's just a simple picture?
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So essentially it's not the structure of the battle suit itself that's hard to replicate, but the ability for it to be as maneuverable and effective in combat as we see it. Though it does make me wonder how does the Nousjaduel-Ger compare in performance. Well, the lack of its ability to hold a Itano Circus already a strike against it. 😛 That is the absolute best description for Zentradi equipment I've heard. Also true considering the only time we see one being massively redesigned was the Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis. Though speaking of Zentradi preferred/familiar tech, was it said that the VF-14 favored by Zentradi pilots, or was that only for the VA-14? This is the best and worst thing I've seen all week. 🤣 Can't believe I missed all of that discussion for one of my favorites in SDF. It is also funny despite how being against culture (or at least how humans told the Zentradi about it) he in became apart of it himself...Just not on the pleasant side of things. I do have a new question; I see the term "frontier immigration planets" thrown around, and I'm curious if they have distinctive qualities from other emigrant planets throughout the galaxy?
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And other random train of thought I just thought up of; I'm wondering if there were different head units for the VF-11 then just the similar VF-1A looking one, or variants of it in general like a VF-11S. Considering how seemingly widespread they were until Frontier rolled around, it's funny how we kinda get a VF-1D nod with the Jamming Birds(though I dunno if it's there because it's for two people, or it's specifically for the unit) and not like a VF-1J type or VF-1S type head for the Thunderbolt. Even the Excalibur and Messiah got more despite being high performing "main protag" suits.
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The author must have really liked VF-X2 to have so many references in the game then...Though it makes logical sense considering colony's pleas for autonomy from the game was a leading factor to decentralization. The more I hear about it myself the more I want a English translation out of it. Right, and it helps that Zentradi mech is really durable and cost/performance effective for over hundreds of millennia (and how when they reappear it's without much alterations to their designs.) iirc I heard a Nousjadeul Ger also appears in one of the Delta movies? Or I'm just thinking of it's glorified cameo in Frontier? Though it's funny to me how there's less Queadluun-series in production because somehow a battlesuit's structure is more complicated then a transforming fighter jet. 😛 (Out of universe obviously they want to use their iconic Valkyries that makes the franchise stand out. Though on the other extreme they could've let them be cannon fodder to make the VF-25 look impressive, lol.) Now this is just making me wonder about the story and lore possibilities of humans macronizing themselves for whatever reason. Only other non-Zentradi example was Elma's dad. Still would be in the minority, but Macross does like to experiment with itself here and there.
