GrampaStump

When Bandai remolded every single part, which was shortly after they acquired the rights, they switched the tail key from black to white. So all the Matsushiro and Bandai undated have a white tail key, and all the Bandai 1984 and 1985 have a black tail key. If there are any oddballs out there that do not conform to that distribution, I have never seen or heard of them. The only exception - and I would not really count it as an exception - is that the gray market Jetfire's that were sold carded without armor in Asia were clearly made from a hodgepodge of parts old and new, so you might get genuine Takatoku style head lasers with a neck near the base of each cannon, with Bandai style metal legs with the detail lines that wrap around to the front and back. But those are probably best thought of as something other than Jetfire. And let me reiterate, when Bandai took over, they remolded every single part. There are also differences even within the early Matsushiro branded version (and the undated Bandai version). For example, the thighs in the early Matsushiros did not have any support pegs internally, but the undated Bandai version did have support pegs. The internal structure of the head lasers - no supports in some/most Matsushiro, and 4 support structures in a few of the Matsushiro and undated Bandai (and in the later 1984 and 1985 Bandai, 5 supports). It is not clear to me whether these very minor early redesigns took place under the stewardship of Takatoku (and/or Matsushiro), or if they were designed and implemented by Bandai. I'm sure somewhere there are aging Japanese former toy company employees who know the answers to these questions, but I don't know if the wider world will ever find out. On this side of the ocean, the Hasbro people who are still around to talk about it don't even always remember the details correctly. Someone asked Henry Orenstein (or maybe it was a Hasbro guy, I can't look up the interview right now) if they ever had a contract with Takatoku Toys, or did they first start dealing with Matsushiro, and his answer was that he didn't really know, but as far as he could remember, Hasbro only ever dealt with Bandai. I don't know if timing-wise that makes sense that they would have originally been dealing with Bandai... But it isn't impossible, especially if Takatoku was sort of spiraling the drain and was already in talks with Bandai to buy them out. I have all these parts and more in organizer drawers right now, so soon, very soon, I will take side-by-side comparison pictures of all these minute details I'm talking about.

Old topic, but I've been working on this. It is pretty clear when you take them apart that literally every single part was remolded between the original Matsushiro version and the final Baindai versions. Many of the differences are only on the inside; mold or cavity marks, ejection pin mark locations, sprue mark locations, additional supports around bosses, and some marks - I assume they are ejection pin marks, but I don't really understand - that are "innies" on one version but "outies" on others (I say I'm unsure what they are because I don't understand how an ejection pin mark can be an outie, but they are far too neat and clean to be sprue marks). I don't have any special knowledge, just taking apart all the junker Jetfires I have bought over the last few years and looking closely at the parts. The most obvious differences are between the {Matsushiro and undated Bandai} versions and the {1984 and 1985 Bandai} versions. But there are very subtle differences even between the Matsushiro and the undated Bandai, where additional supports were added over time. So I'm sure reading about this is pretty uninteresting to 99% of Jetfire fans, but I'm not ready to put out pictures. Still taking pictures and making side by side comparisons. But SOMEDAY in the not too distant future, I plan to have a catalog / database / list / pictures of literally every difference in every piece, and which pieces tended to go together. After-market Frankensteining of course makes this last part challenging, but I'm trying. One thing I have not done is take apart my Takatoku Valkyries to see what they look like on the inside, although I assume they will incredibly similar to Matsushiro Jetfires. Anyway, my hope is that after I put out a list of all the mold marks and variations I've found with pictures, people can submit pictures of any different versions they find.

I lurk on quite a few FB forums where G1 Jetfires are sold, and a trend I've noticed over the last year is "perfect paint job" Jetfires suddenly being found. Even though they are known to often have paint rubs on the nose before being removed from the box for the first time, the same crowd that a few years ago figured out there are variations between different molds and which version parts don't mix and match very well, and then publicly discussed and eventually mastered bleaching them, are now "finding" them with no paint rubs, no fading, no thin spots or chipping anywhere, etc. I guess if they are done with care and end up looking like the real thing, I can't complain too much. But no one is admitting to repainting them, so just on principle I don't like the dishonesty. I'm sure some of these people shelling out $150-$200 for a [touched up] Jetfire with no accessories are going to also shell out to get them graded. I wonder if the scammer leech price fixing grading companies catch the paint touch ups and ding them for it?

Any advice on how to crack open a VF-1 tail section when the seams between the "back shell" and the "tail plate" are glued down really solidly? I've done it many times, and the advice I have given people is that I soak the joints in Goo Gone - even though I'm not sure if that actually accomplishes anything - and then carefully, slowly, attack it with a sharp hobby knife. The thing is, I haven't done it in a couple of years, and I have a few that I'd like to get apart... and I'm very nervous! I'm not great with the hobby knife, so sometimes I make unpleasant gouges (that probably only I notice), and sometimes flakes of plastic from the tail plate break come off, stiuk to the back shell, when it finally breaks apart. I have found some that with age and wear have naturally popped apart beautifully... I've also found some that seem to have escaped being glued in the first place at the factory. But for the rest of the cases, I just don't know how to approach it with confidence, and would be thrilled if one of you had a "OMG THIS IS SO EASY ONCE YOU KNOW THE TRICK!" technique to offer.

Are you are saying that part of the reason you pay for grading is because they put it in acrylic and that reduces yellowing? You can reduce yellowing without paying a grading company for an acrylic box. You can keep it out of heat and sun light, you can put it behind glass (plain old glass is pretty decent at blocking UV), you could maybe even put a sealant on it. There are options that don't involve joining the grading game!

That is amazing. I always knew that Matsushiro sold them out the backdoor on the gray market, and that many of the high quality vintage bootlegs were so high quality because they were literally the real authentic product, but I never before realized they actually did it with their name on the box! That's great. And the TT sticker sheet is not a surprise; Matsushiro was contracted by TT to manufacture them, so all of their sticker sheets would probably have been from TT (unless they manufactured their own stickers?). Great pictures!

Transistor Robots Mr. Hard Hat series. I believe the red head came in the "giftset" and the blue head came in the individually sold Excavator-Man (or I might have that backwards, or perhaps it was random, I'm not really sure). Edit: Sorry, I see it was already answered. But I knew it right off the top of my head, if that counts for anything!

Actually of the 3 on the left, the one with no number comes from a Jetfire based on the original Takatoku VF-1J mold. The two with numbers come from Jetfire based on the newer (but still from 1985) Bandai created molds.

If nobody knows, or nobody is interested, that is fine, but if my message above isn't clear, or if you can't see what is different in the picture about the one cockpit piece I'm asking about, just let me know and I'll try to provide better details. (If only Bandai would dig out the original wooden VF-1 prototype!)

Speaking of Jetfire cockpits, I received a big batch of Jetfire parts, and I noticed 1 cockpit that does not look like the others. Can anyone identify this one? It might be from a KO I am thinking, because it has a different shape than all the other Bandai versions I've seen. The difference may be subtle, but it is pronounced - a rounder front with different angles than the others. See the pictures. Thanks.

Often the thruster shell is glued to the tail plate. Sometimes it cracks loose easily, other times it doesn't. I have more than one that someone else broke trying to disassemble. Has anyone perfected a method for separating them? I have soaked the seam in goo gone, reapplying every once in a while for a day or two, and then used a very sharp razor blade to get them apart. I've also managed it without any tools, just being a little forceful with it, but that seemed awfully risky. I haven't done it enough times to really get a sense for whether the goo gone actually helped. It isn't easy, any way you slice it (pun always intended). Very easy to cut into the plastic with the razor, or break the shell if you rush it. If the goo gone actually works, I'm thinking that the best way to do it would be to build a little jig to put the whole assembly into, soak it with goo gone for longer than I have ever done it (patience!), then tap it apart with a soft mallet - no knife involved. Am I reinventing the wheel? Has someone out there already perfected this? Also, secondary question, is there rhyme or reason to which ones are glued and which ones are not? Possibly early ones / Takatoku had no glue, but Bandai do? Not sure...

Very interesting. Those drawings could be very useful. In this case, I don't think I'm going to call that part "FC" because I'd rather use a word, but its a good starting place. I looked at the schematics of an F-14 Tomcat (which I believe is the primary inspiration for the Valkyrie in fighter mode) and found something that looks very similar on the rear vertical stabilizers that are called the electronic countermeasure aerials (or ECM aerials, for short). So think I've got my name!

Initially I wasn't going to bother giving names to these parts, because they aren't particularly prone to breaking, but then I just found one today broken off and figured what the hell, might as well have a name for it. (The little points that stick off the back of the tail plate, circled in the picture below!)

Here is one I never thought about before. What do you call the roundy thing on the back that pokes out on the original models, and in on some of the newer ones?

I'm not trying to give the BOM a 5 year old comprehension level, but I do want it to be a common language we can all communicate in clearly. Maybe more like 18 years / no college required. Simplicity is a factor, but not the only factor. Sometimes a clear and simple word will be a good stand-in for a more technically accurate phrase that is uncommon and/or long. I appreciate the input, though. And maybe I'm wrong, but perhaps you were subtly teasing me ("...already in your notes"), in which case, bonus points! I totally love it. (But if you were being earnest, that is fine too!) So back to the "shell" piece. You're right that shell doesn't give any clue as to where it goes or what it is. I had been using both backpack and jetpack, but the reason I want to get away from both of those terms is that they seem kind of childish. One makes me think of a kid wearing a backpack walking to school, and the other a rocket pack that a sci-fi nerd would build in his garage to fly around and bounce off the walls with. Maybe back shell? Or jet shell? I've got the overall BOM finished now, all parts listed out, the most commonly broken components of the parts also given their own names. I'm just working out a few details, like renaming the backpack, and figuring out if the landing latches for the front landing gear are identical to the ones on the back (I think so, but want to confirm), and a few other details like that. Once I get it all sorted out, maybe I'll post it here for anyone who is interested to give feedback... or start using if/when they discuss parts of a 1/55 Valkyrie!

I agree, I think about exactly that issue of priority when naming some of these less obvious parts. In this case, you could be reading from my own notes. Empennage vernier thrusters were all there. I also thought about how in space these might be called maneuvering thrusters. Ultimately I thought in this instance simpler would be better, and I was hoping to come up with a 1 word answer. So that leads me back to thrusters, with the bigger ones being called large and the smaller (flattish panel) being called small. Another piece I'm trying to name is the housing for those jets (see the picture below) - and this one I really have no good airplane or robot-related terms for. I have called the whole empennage area the "backpack" and the "jetpack" at different times, but I don't really like either of those. "Back cap" was my first draft term, and then I changed it to "back shell" or just "shell" in my second/current draft, but I'm open to public input on this one.

I have not been able to pin down any regional differences, but there are definitely different revisions to the molds used to create them. The original versions have very few manufacturers marks (like the 4), but some of them do have a number or letter to indicate left or right, most likely to help the assemblers of the toys in the factory. But then they remade the entire mold - every single part changed, some of them non-interchangeably with the original ones. On the new molds, just about every single part does have a mark on it, although typically they are not obvious, usually not visible without disassembly. But this is not unique to Valkyries - if you take apart any mass produced plastic product, you are likely to find marks like this. I took apart some headphones that weren't working, and chuckled to myself as I noted "R15" on the inside of the right ear piece, and "L27" on the left. I assume this is because these molds eventually wear out, and for quality control, they need to know which parts were produced on which molds. The most common mold marks by far are L1 and R1, but there are also L2, R3, and on parts without a left or right, 1, 2, 3, and as I showed in that picture, at least one 4! There are also A, B, C, and sometimes those have a number too. The A, B, C letters are for parts which there are two of, but for which it doesn't matter which one goes on left or right - they are the same on both sides. Here are some pictures, because as I've been told many times, people like pictures not paragraphs! The inner shoulder pieces, the red arrow points to an "R" on an older / Matsushiro / undated Bandai type shoulder. The yellow arrow points to an R1 on a Bandai 1984/1985 type. The upper arm pieces, there is an A 1, A 2, and a B 1. Just ignore that 2 of them are dyed black. It was done after market. I did not do the dying, but I plan to use them. I've always loved the idea of having field-repaired Valkyries with different colored parts, so I don't mind having a few alternate colored dyed parts. Anyway, I have looked at tons of these, so to summarize again, all Bandai 1984/1985 parts have a marking of some kind, and most Matsushrio and undated Bandai that have a left and right part also have a simple L or R marking (or 0 and 1 in the case of the forearms). And presumably as the production runs went on and they needed to make more of them, the numbers and letters incremented. I've even seen examples where one mark appears on top of another - which is odd, considering these are injection molded. And there appears to be a run of metal shoulder hinges where the L and R marking were misapplied and appear on both left and right side pieces. I can believe that is a mistake at the factory, because those parts are very hard to identify as left or right, and I can easily imagine even the people modifying the mold making a mistake. Ah! I've done it again, another paragraph. Now for the pictures.

What should we call the three jets/thrusters/engines/turbines/intakes on the front and back of the tail section? See the picture. The red arrow points to the larger ones, and the yellow arrow points to the smaller ones. In my original notes I called them "jets, large" and "jets, small." And maybe that is fine, but I wanted to see if there was something better and/or more authentic. The first alternative I thought of was thrusters, but I think there is a problem with that. I don't want there to be any confusion, and I suspect when people think of thrusters, they will probably think of the giant armor / booster things that attach to the back. Any advise on what these actually are, and what we can call them, appreciated!

I don't know about that, I've only been collecting and reading about them for the last 2 years or so. But I can confirm a number of variants. Nameplate (Left side / Right side): -Matsushiro / Tokyo Japan -Bandai / Tokyo Japan -Ban Dai / Bandai 1984 Made in Japan -Ban Dai / Bandai 1985 Made in Japan The thing to remember is, they literally made new molds for every part. So if you have an original Matsushiro and an original 1985, even though there are a handful of obvious external differences, even on other parts that look similar there are differences, sometimes only on the inside, but definitely noticeable if you look carefully. If you were to actually break out a gram scale and calipers, then there would be absolutely no question that they are different, but even I haven't undertaken that task (yet). The obvious external variations within those four groups are these: * Some Matsushiros have head cannons with a wide channel near the base, whereas some Matsushiros and all of the others have no channel, just a vertical groove detail line instead. *** Someone once told me they got an undated Bandai with channeled cannons. While that is totally possible, did it actually come from the factory that way? Doubtful, but I have no definitive evidence either way. * And the big one, some Matsushiros have a painted on roundel on the left wing, others have a roundel sticker on the left wing, and others have a wing with no roundel. All other versions appear to have no roundel. *** I've seen some people claim that there is a variant with a gap in the paint for the roundel, but no roundel. I am skeptical. To me, this looks like a sticker that came off after it was purchased. Any hard evidence one way or the other? None that I am aware of. * The backpack cover (not a great name, I know, but we'll get to that one later) has a round sticky-outy part on Matsushiro/undated, but a round pokey-inny part on 1984/1985. * The two fins on the back flap are taller on Matsushiro/undated (and more prone to breaking off!) than they are on 1984/1985. * The canopy can be lighter in color and have a stripe painted across it, or it can be darker *** There are examples of lighter canopies without the stripe, but is that from the factory, or is that just the paint rubbed/cleaned off? I am not aware of a definitive answer. *** Did undated ever get ligher canopies? Possibly, not sure. Did 1984/1985? Possibly, but doubtful in my opinion. * Matsushiro and undated Bandai have parts that all basically share molds * 1984 and 1985 have parts that all basically share molds - there are some exceptions though. For example, a back flap that has a mold mark of 2 will not easily fit into a back plate with a mold mark of 1. * It is very possible to build a Frankenstein with parts from Matsushiro/undated mixed with 1984/1985, but there will be many small mismatches, and in some places, parts just won't fit at all. I know this is a terrible post since there aren't any pictures of all the stuff I'm talking about; I wasn't planning to get into it yet. But another BIG issue that comes up when trying to evaluate all this stuff is that over the course of the production of all the Jetfires, there may have been a great many rare variations, so no overall assessment based on google searching for pictures, or the 20 Jetfires I own, or the opinions/recollections of other collectors or ebay sellers, is going to give us a definitive answer to most of these kinds of questions. For example, I found an elbow with a mold marking of 4 on it. Did you know they went out to 4? Did they go out to 5? Ok, to make this post at least somewhat marginally ok, instead of just straight up boring and bad, here are a couple Jetfire parts shots. The aforementioned elbow with a 4 on it, and some thigh pieces that show that even when grouped by Mat/undated and 1984/1985, there can be structural differences. But anyway, after all this, I do intend to come back here with additional requests for input on naming the various parts. So keep an eye on this space if you like that sort of thing.

Funny how these things work. I thought about this for weeks and couldn't come up with anything. I'm really liking channel/channeled. Unless there is a "real " or "correct" word that someone can present (I doubt there is - for a feature on a sci-fi weapon that isn't necessarily realistic?), I think I'll go with channel. Although looking up synonyms for some of these suggestions I also thought of banded. What do you think, head cannon channel? Banded head cannons? My wife has an amazing vocabulary but she would only make fun of me if I revealed this level of Valkyrie madness. I'll come back to this thread with other part name questions. I'm going through all of them.

I'm taking pictures of all the different varieties of parts I can get my hands on, making note of subtle differences in structural support on the inside, location and number of ejection pin marks, different mold marks, etc. In addition to cataloging the parts, I think it would be nice to give them all names, so we have a common language to discuss them. I'm trying to draw on established aircraft, military, modeling, or machining terminology, rather than inventing my own names for things. At the moment I'm struggling to come up with a good word for the indented ring around the head cannons. Since that is a common point of failure, and a distinctive feature, I'd like to have a name for it. I typically refer to the cannons as "notched" when distinguishing them from Jetfire head cannons that are not notched. But a notch brings to mind a single gouge or indent, not something that goes around the entire circumference of the cannon. On a table leg you might call a feature like that a cove, but that doesn't seem right to me. Groove? I don't like it because there are other detail lines on the cannons that could also be called grooves and I don't want it to be confusing. Ring? If you already know what I'm talking about, it works, but it doesn't seem quite right because a ring around the cannon would be thicker than the rest of the cannon, not thinner. Any suggestions?