ewilen

Sorry. I had some questions about the show, this thread had the most answers, and I figured it was also the best place to add my comments...

Yeah... and seeing Greedo as a kid and somewhat related to Darth Vader is mildly disturbing. I don't know if you're kidding or referring to something I missed (I only saw TPM once and never saw AotC) but this gets to another thing I really hate about the series as it's progressed. The Universe seems to be getting awfully small and incestuous. So, Anakin created C3P0? Bobba Fett is a major (or even significant) character in AotC? Come on, he's a throwaway figure in the OT, no need to explain his "origin".

I finally got around to watching Macross Plus (so far just the OVA's plus part of the movie ending), so I took a look at this thread, and I have to say the comments here have been very helpful and thought-provoking. I side with Hurin, JsArclight, Keith, and others about the rape question (no rape, I say), and the majority about the ending (having Isamu die would be bad). I'd like to share a few thoughts in response to what has been posted. First, about Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, in spite of what we seem to see at the end of the movie, my wife has informed me that the Zhang Ziyi character does not commit suicide in the original series of novels on which the story is based. Of course, the movie makers may have decided to imply otherwise in their version of the story, or to be intentionally ambiguous. Back to Macross. I see Guld as very much a tragic hero in the Shakespearean mold. I'd even go so far as to compare him to Othello, except that I haven't read or seen the play. I think his pill-popping near the beginning of the story is meant to foreshadow his tragic flaw, which is gradually revealed through the plot. Guld isn't merely someone who tends to "fly off the handle"; he is also tragically blind to his flaw due to a psychological defect that makes him see his rageful actions as if they're being carried out by something external to his consciousness. At first, this can be dismissed as a malfunction in the BCS--Guld merely thinks about what would happen if he exerted downward pressure on the YF-19; he doesn't consciously intend to send the mental command to do so, but his subconscious makes the YF-21 wreck Isamu's plane. Later, Guld turns off the BCS but he uses the manual controls to grab a gunpod loaded with live ammo and sends Isamu to the hospital. (Are there ever any clues to how the gunpod got the wrong load other than the speculation at the inquest?) I believe that Guld honestly thinks both incidents are accidents. Something similar happened in the incident that broke up the friendship. Myung loved Guld, but she loved Isamu more. Both of them loved Myung, at least in some sense--they'd both promised to always protect her. Whatever was going on between Isamu and Myung when Guld burst in on them, I have two theories about Guld's reaction: (1) Guld already had the psychological disorder (perhaps due to some earlier trauma) and the shock of seeing Myung and Isamu together sent him into an "episode". When he was shocked into consciousness by seeing himself in the mirror, his only way of interpreting what he saw was to blame it on an external subject, in this case Isamu. (2) Guld may have had some emotional problems, but he didn't yet have the disorder. When he saw Myung and Isamu, however, he flew into a jealous rage and attacked both of them. Seeing himself in the mirror, he realized the horror of what he was doing and stopped. At that moment or some time later, unable to deal with the feelings of guilt and jealousy, he became unhinged and developed his disorder as a way of coping. In other words, he dissociated his "bad" emotions and behaviors from his consciousness and blamed them on an external subject. A split was thus triggered in his psyche, whereby his rage could act independently of his conscious intent. I like the second theory better. Although I do remember Isamu saying to Guld at one point that he always goes too far (or something like that), implying that Guld had always had a temper problem. But I could be forgetting--possibly Guld says that to Isamu, in which case he's probably projecting his own flaws onto Isamu. (I'm thinking of the scene where they have a fistfight after Isamu comes back from that motorcycle ride in the third episode.) What probably happened afterward was that either Myung or Isamu or both decided that they shouldn't be together, because of the effect that seeing them had on Guld. It's not clear how well they understood their friend's problem and his self-deception. Guld may have simply stopped talking to them and only vaguely asserted that Isamu was at fault, and the other two may have preferred not to push the point. Over time, Guld constructed an image of himself as Myung's protector and saw Isamu as a traitor. And in fact he does act quite heroically to save Myung, including giving his life after his tragic flaw is fully revealed to him and to the audience. (In Greek tragedy this realization is called anagnorisis and it generally precedes the death of the tragic hero.) As for why/whether Myung sleeps with Guld. I think it's likely that she does. And I think that what was going on was that Myung has felt guilty all those years, because she loves both guys and doesn't want to choose between them, but she likes Isamu more. Also, she may have felt (all along) that Guld needs her more. So she can't admit to herself that she wants to be with Isamu, she probably feels partly at fault for the breakup of the friendship, and in her guilt/denial she thinks she wants to be with Guld (at least for that night). It's only when Sharon tells Myung that she's inherited Myung's preference for Isamu that Myung admits/realizes the truth. I really think this is a remarkable story. Even more than the original TV series, it's far more than a giant robot show dressed up with a nifty plot line; it's more like a social/psychological drama with science fiction elements reminiscent of Lem, and some nifty mecha and flight scenes thrown in.

I thought at least some of the "contrail-like" lines made by airplanes weren't from the engines at all, but from low-pressure vortices created by the wings, which in turn induce condensation out of the air. Am I completely off on that? Isn't that semi-famous picture of a Hornet "defolding" through a globe of white vapor caused by a similar phenomenon? Anyway, I'm inclined to agree with VF-17 & Mr. March--the byproducts of the chemical reaction used to propel the missiles could leave a trail in space. Much of it would likely be water vapor and CO2 (combustion of organic fuels with an oxidizer). How visible it would be, I don't know. Comment on Uxi's comments. First off, all missiles carry their reaction mass with them. About whether the missiles need to be big to maneuver, on the one hand, by ducting some of the thrust through side openings, swivelling the nozzels, or using small ancillary thrusters operating on something as simple as compressed air, I think you could change the missile's axis and let the main thrust handle changing the vector. On the other hand, I think a Sidewinder only accelerates for a brief period of time; a lot of its maneuvering is done by means of the fins while effectively coasting. That option doesn't exist in space. As for dodging, I think the Macross approach is to fire a bunch of missiles whose trajectories diverge and then converge on the target, which complicates interception/evasion.

Valkyrie Development History Does it bug anyone else? Lots of discussion on this in those two topics.

I'm of the same opinion. Even though ESB had many things going for it, it still misses ANH because it's already showing signs of the cutification and merchandization effects that swamped the later movies. I was deeply disappointed with RotJ, but on rewatching it I usually find myself thinking it's not too bad up until the last 1/3 or so. Then it drops off the edge of the table, what with Ewoks, the fragmentation of the narrative, and the way the Emperor turns out to be a Dark Side wizard or whatever. People who saw the first movie when they were old enough to understand what was going on will remember that "The Force" was originally subject to derision by the mainstream of the Empire (e.g. Grand Moff Tarkin). I went to TPM shortly after it opened and was appalled. Didn't bother with AotC. I reckon when the third prequel comes out, if it gets great reviews, I'll rent the first two and watch them with my wife before seeing it in the theatre. (She's never seen any SW.) Otherwise, I'll just wait to watch the whole series on video.

Marduk is also the name of a Babylonian god. Quick google search turns up this: http://www.themystica.org/mythical-folk/ar...les/marduk.html I doubt there really was any attempt to use the plot of the Epic of Gilgamesh in constructing Macross II. I think they just used the names because they sounded cool, and maybe as a way of hinting that the aliens had a connection to Earth's distant past.

Montarvillois, I'm 37, too. As for all you kids--you better turn down that damn jungle music! Got into Robotech in '85 during summer break from college.

Schwalbe, oder? Re: turbines, based on discussion that went on in another thread about reaction mass and the VF-1's propulsion system, I think the VF-1 does have turbines to spin the fan at the front of the engine, which sucks in air that is heated by the fusion reactor and expelled as a jet through the turbine blades. Some power from the turbines could also be converted into electricity to power other systems. In theory, I guess, the fusion reactor could be used to produce electricity by other means, which would then be used to spin the fan, eliminating the need for a turbine. But I'll bet that would be less efficient in many ways (weight, space, energy). In space, reaction mass would be injected from onboard stores directly into the engine (the fan might help pressurize the reaction mass, but I doubt it), heated into a jet by the fusion reactor, and expelled through the turbine, again generating electricity. Once again, the turbine wouldn't be absolutely necessary if electricity were stored or generated by other means. I think there are some cutaway drawings of the VF-1 that might show enough of the engines to see if there are turbines.

Or a bootleg of the old Takatoku SD Valks--which are roughly the same class as RT ones, i.e., not nearly as good as a JM. I believe the Takatoku SD design was also sold as a Mark/Select/Convertors toy, just as some of the really cheap-o Takatokus were (the ones you never hear of any more).

If he can read katakana, he would have seen that the Valk itself has "takatoku toys" imprinted on it. It also has the logo. In other words, a Matsushiro is exactly like a Takatoku, except for the box and possibly the landing gear triggers (black instead of grey). I know because I have a Matsushiro (but not a Takatoku). In my opinion, the guy is making a mistake by not describing the item as exactly what it is, because Matsushiro's in that condition with box and all the papers are pretty rare.

If that was him, he was visiting a...hm...how to put it...cat house at the time. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...4&hl=first+kill

Yes, Perfect Memory is definitely worth getting. Worth $45? As noted above, if it's the original with the poster, then it's worth it for collectiblity. But if you just want access to the information and pictures (other than the poster), a bootleg will do fine. I got mine for a ridiculously low price ($9.99 plus shipping) from an ebay seller called "gamebuyers" and I've seen them selling it recently on eBay for $19.99, which is still a very good value. However, some people have reported problems with "gamebuyers". I didn't have any problems at all--it took a while to arrive, but no longer than they indicated in their info. Nevertheless, caveat emptor. Regarding the text: even if you can't read Japanese (I can't) you can get a little more out of the book by finding a reference to katakana either on the net or your bookstore/library.

We-ell, I doubt any modern fighter (post-1960's at least) would be designed without flare/chaff dispensers. That's got to be an oversight in the VF-1 stats. ECM might be retconned in, as could active stealth, without much trouble. (Consider that Kawamori retroactively announced that the VF-1 has SWAG armor, or something like it, a long time after the original TV & movies.) As for the ammo limitations, I'd consider the caliber and rate of fire, as I did in an earlier thread. The GPU-9 is 35 mm vs. the GU-11 at 55 mm. That translates into a lot more hitting power. The '9 probably has a higher ROF, which might increase the hit probability but at the cost of increasing the rate at which ammo is expended. Also missiles are irrelevant because variable fighters are never hit by missiles in Macross. Unless Misa fires them, that is. (I'm sure someone will correct me on this.) Finally, the VF-1's SWAG might be stronger, if only because it has more energy to work with.

Croesus Gyst! I keep trying to guess all the clueless ways of describing Robotech/Macross stuff, but the poor saps keep coming up with new ones. Still, I probably would have held fire...I don't want a hovertank very badly at the moment... About Macross Plug...it's because of the weird font used on the Ultimate Edition box, I think. I bought the exact same item from that seller. If anyone wants the UK (R2) versions of the OAV and Movie, it's not a bad deal. See http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...t=ST&f=2&t=3663

I think that's background for a Macross RPG, not something from Perfect Memory or any other "official" publication. In other words, classify it as fanfic written after M7.

That's exactly the issue. Unfortunately, I can't find a legal distinction between "merchandise" and "derivatives". As far as I can tell, what we commonly think of as "merchandise" is simply material goods which reproduce likenesses (or adaptations thereof) of the original copyrighted materials. The goods can themselves be likenesses (toys, models, trading cards) or they can carry the likenesses on them (T-shirts, lunch boxes, candy wrappers, etc.). The key point is that the images or likenesses used in merchandise are simply reproductions or adaptations of the original copyrighted work. This is why the litigation over "Candy Candy" merchandise concerns copyright, not [only] trademark. (Look up "Candy Candy" lawsuit for background.) Again, I believe that what we think of as "merchandising rights" is really various adaptation rights limited by contract to media not commonly thought of as "storytelling media". I finally found a web page which addresses this issue to some degree in U.S. copyright law, and I believe it agrees with my analysis. Here's the link. Have a look and let me know what you think. Edit: Now, we really don't know what was in the BW/SN/TP contract or the TP/HG contract, but we do know that HG licensed toys with Matchbox and licensed comic books with Comico back in the 80's. They also produced trading cards, and a series of novels using the Robotech-adapted version of the Macross story. So regardless of whether the contracts used "merchandise" or other terms in divvying up the derivative rights, it would appear that the new RT comic books, toys, and (probably) videogames are no more or less legal than the old ones (pace issues of whether the contracts were limited in time, and whether the MPC violates the Matsushiro patent on transformable Valkyrie toys).

Thanks, Roycommi! Maybe Renato can compare the translation work he's done so far? Both those stories are barely more than sketches. In fact, they feel like rough scenarios for material that was never animated. I wonder if "The Plundering Fleet" was supposed to be used as a flashback.

Nah, he's gonna die. I can just see it: Edgar: "They killed Roy!" Shin: "You bastards!" But then, somehow, he's back in Super Dimension Fortress Macross...only to die again. (Bastards!)

Graham, there are several VCD formats, plus a hybrid format known as "mini-DVD" which is DVD-type data stored on a VCD. SVCD is reportedly about as good as DVD, and mini-DVD should be just as good. Quality of the others varies. The hitch is that none of them will hold as much data as a DVD. Also, no all players can handle all formats, especially mini-DVD. I'm sure the sites which have been suggested are excellent. However, my original introduction to all this was in a couple of FAQs which I found back when I got my player, and they still might be useful. Unfortunately, they're in German, but babelfish will do a reasonable job of translating. http://www.dvdboard.de/vcdfaq.html http://members.fortunecity.de/ninmachine/xvcd.html

If someone could, I'd be grateful. Ditto if someone could get me access to this thread from the old forums. (Grateful, that is, but I'm also dreading it, since I've already spent many hours of research and I wouldn't look forward to having to incorporate much new information.) But Radd, I wonder where you get the derivative/merchandise distinction from? I looked hard for it but I couldn't find any legal definition separating the two. My working hypothesis is that the distinction is part of private contracts--just as the memorandum defined the age groups that the various parties could target in SDF Macross-based print publications, it would define the rights to market items such as candy, toys, models, etc. Toys are almost certainly "works" subject to copyright (falling under Article 10 (iv) "paintings, engravings, sculptures and other artistic works") and as such would be derivatives of the work they've based on. P.S. Thanks for the encouragement, Effect!

To be frank, that's one of the puzzling questions which I'm going to have to leave open. My guess is that things like the comic, the MPC, superposables, etc., are covered by the memorandum contract which gives Tatsunoko certain worldwide merchandising rights to products based directly off the TV show. I also assume that Tatsunoko's merchandising rights include the right to create new merchandise as opposed to merely marketing it. If either of these guesses are wrong, then it's hard to say why Big West hasn't "dropped the bomb" in the U.S. courts. Maybe they will, eventually. Incidentally, I suspect that Yamato thinks it can skirt Tatsunoko's rights, even for such things as the Hikaru Super, the VF-1D, and the Max & Millia VF-J's, by basing them directly off the line art. If you look at the packaging for these toys, I think you'll see that it all says "Macross", not "Super Dimension Fortress Macross" or anything else which would indicate a direct derivative of the show.

Okay, I just double-checked. I have a Raite 715. In the setup menu of the player (not the disc), I can choose NTSC or PAL output. If I choose PAL, the screen is no longer visible, since my TV is NTSC-only, and I have to blindly locate NTSC again. Needless to say, I don't play around with that control much. As for the M+ UK DVD's, they play just fine. I leave the player set on regionless (Region 0) and it's never caused a problem with any DVD's, even though I've read that a few do somehow check that the region is the same as opposed to regionless. So they work under R0. They don't work when I set the player to R1. Checking R2...works. This all makes sense since DVD is a digital medium; the player must do a digital-to-analog conversion when outputting to the TV. The only possible issue is that the screen looks slightly compressed vertically. Not sure about this, but if it does indeed turn out to be the case, I can just adjust the TV. (Even though many modern TV's lack an easily-accessible vertical adjustment, there are ways of getting into the service menus. A lot of info is at http://209.145.176.7/~090/awh/toc.html in the Home Theater section, regarding calibrating TV's and the "anamorphic vertical squeeze" trick.) Edit: in case the link stops working, the guy who maintains the info is Anthony W. Haukap, and his main web page is at http://www.cyberspace.org/~awh/index.html

Does that matter with a DVD? At least on my player, there's a screen in setup to choose the output. I'll check and get back. Was waiting to finish the Animegio TV set before watching Plus with my wife.

Hey, Pat, where can I find info on that? I did notice that HG has been racking up a bunch of trademarks on the Macross name, but I didn't know that anyone had actually seen them making those arguments. In answer to Captain Bob, Harmony Gold's apparent claim from a copyright perspective is that they own the worldwide (ex-Japan) copyright to Macross because Tatsunoko Productions licensed it to them. Harmony Gold's "Robotech" adaptation was a use of that copyright but didn't add or subtract from it. The problem with this argument is that while the Japanese courts have affirmed that Tatsunoko has the copyright of the cartoon "Super Dimension Fortress Macross", that isn't the same thing as owning the copyright on the underlying works used in creation of the cartoon. The first court judgment of February, 2002, has already established that Big West/Studio Nue own the copyright to the lineart. The "scenario" or story outline of Macross is also a work subject to copyright, and I believe that if the issue ever came to court, a similar judgment would confirm Big West/Studio Nue's rights thereto. In other words, "Super Dimension Fortress Macross" isn't an original work, but an adaptation or derivative of the lineart and the scenario created by Studio Nue and Big West. All the other Macross stories and derivatives likewise are based on the original lineart and scenario, not "Super Dimension Fortress Macross". (According to Japanese copyright law, Tatsunoko's rights in a secondary work do not prejudice the rights of the copyright holders of the original work it's based on.) So while Tatsunoko was able to sell the rights to "Super Dimension Fortress Macross" to Harmony Gold, Harmony Gold has no copyright claim to the entire Macross franchise. That is, unless the memorandum contract between Big West/Studio Nue and Tatsunoko gave Tatsunoko rights which haven't yet been disclosed. This is doubtful in light of Big West's ability to license Macross Plus and Macross II without apparent objection or interference by Tatsunoko or Harmony Gold (regardless of what Harmony Gold may say now). I'm working on an essay which will discuss these points at greater length.