ewilen

Yes, it seems a lot of creators care a lot less about continuity than the obsessed fans. Whether or not you like Tolkien, you have to give him credit--he was as much a fan of his world as he was the creator, and he was very much a continuity freak/perfectionist. I recommend his short story "Leaf by Niggle" (found in the collection Tree and Leaf) which is partly self-deprecating allegory, partly a tale of despair over the impossible task of building a coherent and complete "sub-reality".

It might be helpful to have someone who knows Japanese read through the parts of Perfect Memory which seem to show the original story outlines and how they were revised during production. There may also be some good stuff in The Gold Book (haven't even seen a copy in person, myself). But to actually translate all that in print would be a major undertaking.

I was visiting my brother in Berkeley, CA, in 1985 when I first saw the chunky monkey VF-1's and Alphas at Comics & Comix on Telegraph Avenue. I'd been a fan of Robotech since the first season (I checked in right around episode 24) and I wanted a 1/55 VF, but the price was too steep (probably $30!). I later found a 1/100 Skull Leader knockoff in SF Chinatown--pretty sure it's the one pictured here and here. The text on the back included a bizarre summary of the Macross story that seemed to be correct for the first few sentences before veering off in a completely unrecognizable direction. I was happy with my 1/100 and might never have gotten into more Valk collecting, were it not for the fact that I asked a college friend to hold some of my stuff for me while we were moving things into storage. He foolishly and inexplicably left a box of items outside his dorm room door, and much of it including the Valk was stolen/scavenged. The loss rankled and over the years I tried to find a replacement, settling for a few model kits from yard sales (still unbuilt), until I started seeing reissues, Yamatos, MPC's, and Banprestos in various shops. Did some research and started with a Banpresto 1S Strike, then a 1/48 Hikaru 1A, followed by some cheap bootlegs for kicks, some Bandais/Matsushiros for playing/collecting, and most recently, a 1/60 Hikaru VF-1J which, thanks to Chowser, even has TV-accurate missiles. Whoops, gotta run!

OIC

That depends on who wins the auction, now doesn't it?

Hey, notice how my article had no insults or snears? (Hint, hint.)

Not as many as I should have, or I'd be an impoverished history Ph.D. instead of a grad-school dropout network administrator, reasonably, uh, un-poverished.

Okay, more Google Groups work. Everything points to the "movie within a movie" being a retcon introduced to fans in 1994, when Macross Plus appeared. I will provide links, key quotes where necessary, and commentary. Unfortunately, it will be a bit disorganized since I'm just going to quote stuff in the order I found it. 1. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&...ra.ryutai.co.jp 1994.8.25 Peter Evans describes "roars of laughter" at some anime event (probably Anime Expo) in 1994 when people saw the "movie within a movie" explanation in a showing of Macross Plus. This was obviously the first time that American fans, at least, became aware of this retcon. 2. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:p...ai.co.jp&rnum=1 1994.10.20 Another reference to "the event" and the reaction to the retcon. 3. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:a...iwan.com&rnum=2 Same thread, reference to the "new integration of Macross '84 into the series timeline" and the relegation of Mac II to an alternate universe. 4. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&...Ez%40netcom.com 1994.10.8 Same thread, Keith Rhee writes: Notice that he is talking about a recent retcon for the sake of incorporating M+ and M7. Keith Rhee repeats this in a FAQ he posted on 1994.10.8. Link here. 5. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&...40152.rahul.net Ronnie Kwong comments on the new continuity introduced with M+. 6. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:a...iwan.com&rnum=1 For the sake of contrast, this post from 1993.12.13 by Roderick Lee (a.k.a. "Professional Agitator") uses the "old" version of the timeline(s), with SDF: Macross forming one timeline and DYRL, FB2012, and MII forming a separate timeline. 7. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:a...iwan.com&rnum=3 http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:a...iwan.com&rnum=2 Same author, posting in 1994.10.1 and 1994.10.6. By now, he has gotten with the program re: where DYRL fits in the continuity, and like other fans, he views it as an amusing innovation. In conclusion, until August, 1994, American anime fans believed that DYRL was an alternate telling of the events of SW 1, having basically the same relationship to SDF: Macross as the movie and tv versions of Mash, The Fugitive , or Lost in Space (shudder). Only with the release of Macross Plus, and associated literature published in Japanese anime magazines at the time, did they become aware of the "movie within a movie" concept. Since some of them obviously knew Japanese before that time (or they wouldn't have been able to read the articles in Newtype, etc.) and were serious otaku collectors, it is highly doubtful that any official pronouncements or interview statements had been made prior to August, 1994, about DYRL being a "movie in the Macross universe". It is possible that some of the Macross creators had this idea or something like it in their minds prior to the development of Macross Plus, but in my view, the burden of proof rests squarely on the proponents of that notion.

I don't know if this helps, but the earliest reference I can find by Egan Loo to the "movie within a movie" concept is this Usenet article dating from September, 1994. He gives a translation of a chronology which appeared in a recent Newtype magazine issue and adds: He also provides these references:

Not just that, but if DYRL wasn't originally conceived as a movie-within-a-movie, it'd be helpful to know when the creators decided to retroactively use that explanation for the sake of continuity ("retcon" in fanboy-speak). Was it when they did FB 2012, or M7, or some other time? JsArclight--thanks for getting that translation done.

Found 'em both. Look closely at the cover of the first one to see how big it is in relation to a kid. I think there might be a better version of that picture somewhere on the net. Cardboard SDF-1 The cardboard VF-1S isn't as big as I remembered. Still kind of interesting. I think the creator is a MW member. Cardboard VF-1S 001

What's this GAME price? I just grabbed an Ultimate Editon off ebay for £14-something...so it's too late for me, but maybe others would benefit from the knowledge.

(a) They probably did, since it's strongly implied, if not stated, that they are on the Macross when Hikaru has to writing that hardest of letters to write in the TV episode following his death. (B) Somehow I think the conclusion of this thread is relevant to the question of why sources and attributions are important.

I've seen a very big battroid valk made out of cardboard, possibly at Valkyrie Creations. I don't know if it's bigger than the RT ones, but it's cooler, even though the creator modestly wrote it's not that great. Somebody sold a commercial SDF-1 model in cruiser mode, made of cardboard. Probably about as big as a five-year-old kid. Don't recall where I saw it, but I'll try doing some searches if I have time.

So, kensei, what did you show?

I'm sure it's in that link, but nobody's mentioned the most famous Mustang in movies--Steve McQueen's in Bullitt! Also one of the most famous chase scenes--but watch for the magic teleporting VW!

If you want the M+ OAV and movie, here's a tip: you might look into the Macross Plus Ultimate Edition. Sold in the UK, it includes both. It's R2, so you'll need a multi-region DVD player, and there's supposedly a mixup on the disc labelling, but the price isn't bad even if you get it direct from Manga UK (£19.99 plus shipping, or about $40 total.). It shows up on eBay and Amazon auctions, too--just make sure the seller is willing to ship to your location. http://manga.co.uk/

There are five listings (some duplicate) for DYRL over at Import-Anime.com, including one or two additional cover designs. But none match the one you're asking about.

Recent prices on ebay have been $180-$200 for either the 9-dvd box or the three miniboxes together. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...&category=41524 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...&category=41524 However, the price is probably headed downward. Overstock.com and Bestprices.com have sold the first two miniboxes at about $40-$50 (though both may be out of stock now at that price). The extras in the 9-dvd box make it a bit of a collector's item, but I don't think they add that much to the value. If you want to sell quickly, I'd either auction starting at $100 or sell at $150-$200. Edit: P.S. Good luck with your situation!

I haven't seen that part of of M7, but to expand a bit on what has been written, Exedol in M7 follows the character design in Do You Remember Love. In the opening of DYRL, we see him using tentacles to examine objects gathered from micronian debris; later in the movie, I believe Bodolza uses tentacles to manipulate something while he's meeting with Britai and Exedol.

The first three buildings destroyed are Anime Friends (you can only see the "A" and "Friends"), ArtLand, and Studio (Chimera) Nue. (Nue = some kind of mythological creature, according to the liner notes, thus the "Chimera".) The last building, where the guy gets blown away/knocked over, seems to say "Privacy Box" when I view it in super-slo-mo. But who knows what Privacy Box is? I don't.

Check this out... http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f7991162 Before you get too worked up, only the CLOTHES are for sale!

Seems like a good deal. Mint Takatoku box. But wait a second... http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...4&category=9983 Edit: By the way, according to the babelfish translation, the Valk is missing its tail assembly.

Something's wrong here. Either this seller is nuts, or I got incredibly lucky. At least the seller is coming down on the price.

Beautiful. One thing I wonder--how durable are the various sticker/decal options? What can be done/needs to be done to maximize durability? I want to be able to transform my Valks whenever I feel like it, without having to wear gloves.