Zinjo

So how is it that we spent two pages arguing the virtues of the VF-4 and little on its deployment or service history? I'm not sure how the VF-4 discussion relates to the most successfull VF??

Word!!

I agree with Seto in that the prolific production of a fighter is a misleading way to judge its success. As the size of emigration fleets increased substantially over time as well as the number of colonized worlds. Hence my assertion that years of active service coupled with production levels speaks to the effectiveness and / or popularity of a particular fighter. It isn't so much a pissing contest over who's favorite fighter is better, but rather which fighter was the most used and for the longest duration in universe. The most popular real life naval fighters to date are the F-14 and F-18s, when one considers the length of their service. The last flight of an F-14 was 2006!!! A hell of a service life IMO. Now compare that type of service life to the Macross universe and we'll get an idea of which is the most successful fighter. Hell it could very well be the VF-5000 since we see them still in service in the mid to late 2040's! The thread is not about which is the "best" fighter, but the most successful. I interpret that as the most prolific fighter with the longest service record, used by the most worlds, fleets or units. It may well not be possible since the Chronicle and the compendium tend to abruptly end the productions of various fighters, not considering the notion of licensed factories and upgrade regimes of various colony worlds or fleets...

I'd have to say produced units + length of service = success. Especially in the era before the mid 2040's when it appears that emigration fleets start to gain more and more autonomy from the central government and the Spacy. By 2050, the idea of central control over the colony worlds and fleets has essentially evaporated and a federation of nation states evolves. Essentially the Macross 7 fleet chose to agree with Spacy that they'd adopt the VF-19 has their main fighter, however other colony worlds and fleets may not have accepted the recommendation. In 2059 it has become common practice that colonies and emigration fleets develop their own fighter aircraft based on federally funded R&D prototypes and are not bound by what the main Spacy fleets adopt. I believe it is most likely that federal Spacy fleets under Earth control will adopt the VF-24 as their main fighter, while other colonies and fleets may license the VF-25 or the VF-171EX fighters. The possibility also now exists that worlds may only license some of the technology that went into the VF-25 or VF-171EX and use it to upgrade their existing fighter squadrons. The possibilities are wide open now. Thank you Kawamori

You will learn grasshoppa, you will learn...

You are a wizard dude! What you did there is magic to me. I can barely get illustrator to do basic shapes, never mind trace a VF-25!!!

I'll post this here like I did in another simiar thread.... The fasted way to resurrect or gain a buzz about any mod is to release SOMETHING! I know coders and modellers are perfectionists and that is to be commended, but my experience in the modding community was one of build, release and update - then repeat.... This continues until the mod is either finished or the players stop playing it. You may only have a buggy Alpha candidate right now, but release it anyway and set up a feedback forum so the users can inform the team of the "new" bugs you were not aware of. You need to get it out there not only to maintain interest from the fans, but also to get the positive feedback for the team to motivate and inspire them to continue. The fastest way to motivate and attract talent is with fan buzz about a project. Promising a release does nothing for the mod. Showing videos, screenshots and "plans" mean little until a fan gets to actually PLAY it. The mods I have been involved in would start by simply swapping out the vehicles and weapons on existing maps. Then over time the mapping team would have the custom maps ready to be included. It was all a very piecemeal production, but the players didn't care. Set specific progress goals for each release. It's better to release smaller manageable chapters of a mod than the whole damn thing all at once. It may be the best mod ever produced, but if everyone has lost interested, then what was the point of all the hard work? The project is a work in progress, it won't be perfect on its first release, but it will be by the time its final release comes out, so send it out there and let the players enjoy what you have thus far. There will be a certain charm in playing the HW2 game story with Macross vehicles. Each subsequent release will be more anticipated over the last and that's what you want! Players will enjoy their little taste of heaven (warts and all) and it will easily tide them over until the next release is ready. Guys I strongly recommend you don't sit on this, get it out there and let the players get their hands on it. The rest will take care of it self. Trust me...

The fasted way to resurrect any mod is to release SOMETHING! I know coders and modellers are perfectionists and that is to be commended, but my experience in the modding community was one of build, release and update - repeat, until the mod was either finished or the players stop playing it. You may only have a buggy Alpha candidate right now, but release it anyway and set up a feedback forum so the users can inform the team of the "new" bugs. You need to get it out there not only to maintain interest from the fans, but also to get the positive feedback to the team to motivate and inspire them to continue. The fastest way to motivate and attract talent is with fan buzz about a project. Promising a release does nothing for the mod. Showing videos and "plans" mean little until a fan gets to actually PLAY it. The mods I was involved in would start by simply swapping out the vehicles and weapons on existing maps. Then over time the mapping team would have the custom maps ready to be included. It was all a very piecemeal production, but the players didn't care. Each release was anticipated with greater excitement over the last and that's what you want! Players will enjoy their little taste of joy and it will easily tide them over until the next release is ready. Guys don't sit on this, get it out there and let the players get their hands on it. The rest will take care of it self. Trust me...

Yep, never tie Mikimoto down to a deadline! He knows his fans will wait for it.. We are such addicts...

I somehow knew you'd comment on that post... My comment has little to do with decorum and more to do with pragmatism. At no point did I say it was impossible, however, based on "experience" this is one of the very few times we've had a sophisticated English description on a product made for the domestic Japanese market. Academic tests do not demonstrate a working knowledge of a language, only the ability to correctly answer questions in and about that language. English in it's entirety, would be as easy to master for a non-natural English speaker as would the complex nuances of written Japanese (particularly Kanji) for a non-natural Japanese speaker. In other words, very difficult without many many years experience, but not impossible. My statement is more a commentary on the difficulty of writing a coherent sophisticated paragraph in English (for a non native speaker) as opposed to any diminishing of English speaking Japanese people. The language can be damn hard to learn, never mind master it. Even for those born to it. However, I too appreciate Bandai's efforts to ensure the English description is understandable to the international market. It shows outstanding business acumen...

I seriously doubt that was written by a native Japanese person. Particularly due to the correct use of the indefinite article "a". Getting a native English speaker who has strong Japanese language skills or was spoon fed the information is the most likely culprit. I am not saying it couldn't be a native Japanese speaker who wrote it, it just seems very unlikely to me. The paragraph is very sophisticated compared to the typical English usage we've seen from Japan. It would be like our Japanese as a second language members writing a highly sophisticated and nuanced paragraph in Japanese. It isn't impossible, just not likely given their experience with the language no matter how extensive. IMHO

Envy!! It's on my list of discs to get...

The best part about these egg planes is that Hasegawa has licenses to produce not only the various VF-1s, but the Mac Zero and Mac Plus fighters as well!!

Actually your "Fresco" quote may be relevant if the callsign is the assigned name for the squadron at that time. I believe I read somewhere that the AF doesn't have established squadron callsigns, whereas the Navy does for the most part. We can split hairs over Air Force and Navy all day, it isn't going to change the differences. I could site the fact that Macross deals with a Space Navy, where as you'll counter with Macross Plus is in reference to a UN Air Force test center. So nothing is going to be accomplished by any further argument. TG is loosely based on actual Naval Aviation procedures (reality is so much more boring than movie drama) and I could probably site half a dozen errors off the top of my head. ID4 is even less accurate with respect to the Marine squadrons , except the use of squadron callsigns during combat, which was the issues in discussion.

As already stated, Macross First is the latest reboot of SDFM. I prefer it over the original anime myself. The story is more sophisticated than the show (which isn't easy!) and fleshes out the characters better. Though Minmay's pet is a character that Mikimoto could loose...

True, however, DYRL could get a BD transfer...

Very much an update to be closer to the Macross Zero design aesthetic.

I suspect you are sir... A movie as an example is quite relevant oh sir of stuffed shirts... Never heard such a thing and smacks of serious communications confusion to me! The last thing you want during a combat mission!! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - My links sir.... http://www.milaircomms.com/mil_callsigns.html If you go down the list you will notice several examples of squadron callsigns, specifically (granted not all squadron callsigns match their squadron names, however many do or are similar to the actual squadron names): DALFIN ## = USN VFA-203 Blue Dolphins NAS Atlanta HAWK ## = USMC F/A-18D VMFA(AW)-533 (aka HAWKS) A few examples. Another link of squadron callsigns: http://www.zone-five.net/showthread.php?p=90765 The pilots actually don't use their personal callsigns on missions Read the posts in : http://wingsoveriraq.blogspot.com/2010/04/on-callsigns.html Take Note of AT2(AW)'s post! ___________________________________ The film, "Top Gun", was accurate in some areas of Naval Aviation (thanks to the Naval pilots working on the film), but was totally wrong in others - it was a "movie" after all folks... So sketchley, care to provide YOUR links?

Actually Sketchley you might be confusing the pilot callsigns with fighter squadron callsigns. In "Independence Day" Hiller called out to his squadron as Black Knight #, since his original squadron were the VMFA-314 Black Knights.... As far as I know both are acceptable. Though it's true that other countries can be strict about using squadron callsigns instead of pilot ones. The implication in the manga is that Omega was the designated "squadron" for the testing ( ) Ahh gotta love Kawamori, still retconning... The new paint scheme is an homage to the new schemes seen in Mac F. The stripes are an extension of the VF-0 and VF-25 with the numbering reminding me of the VF-171 markings... Though I must admit that it is nice to see some after market decals for the 1/100 scale lines.

Better late than never... I totally agree with Sketchley. The SW-XA1 was Kawamori's kick at a VF-1 redesign in 2002 anyway... It may have been prompted by his pre-production work on Macross Zero. The "official story" on the SW-XA1 is a way to shoe horn the designs into the Macross universe after the fact. Several designs from the unproduced "Air Cavalry Chronicles (1990)" made their way into Macross mecha cannon. The A9B Invader was redesigned into the VA-3M Invader for VF-X2, the Fz-109A ErgaZorn and Fz-109F PanzerZorn became the Fz-109A & F Elgerzorene for Macross 7, the Fz-109G SturmZorn became the VF-14 Vampire for the Macross M3 game. I suspect the Fz-109Q ValutaZorn is what inspired him to create the first VB-6 König Monster for the VF-X2 video game. Kawamori recycles all of his designs... Neither the SW-XA1 Schneeblume or SW-XAII Schneegans have yet to be featured in either a game or production, therefore their ultimate uses and placement in the mecha canon of Macross can easily change. We all should know that by now... As for changing the crash date that would be a Robowreck way to deal with the issue. The entertainment industry has be creating alternative histories for years, why should Macross be any different? Besides, in order to keep Macross Zero correct, the crash year has to be 1999. The last flight of an F-14 was 2006. So it's not a huge stretch to believe that a couple of F-14 squadrons were kept in active service by 2008 (M0 year).... Especially if the casualty rate hinted at in Zero is any indication of how fast hardware is being used up.

Whatever happened to the Satelite book(s) about the making of the series??

I think only the winner was

Flashbacks in TV seem fairly common, however you'll be hard pressed to see a major studio release with one. Abrams' Star Trek had linear back stories that as you said "jump" to later eras. That seems to be the acceptable norm instead of flashbacks. It's also much more difficult to "cheat" that way. Integrating a back story efficiently into a film is more of a challenge when you can't rely on flashbacks...

OK, let me put it this way. Try selling a script to a studio with a lot of flashbacks in it...Good Luck! TV shows are not the same as film and what may be acceptable for a TV show is not what works in the film industry. I wouldn't say studios refuse to do films with flashbacks, but rather they avoid them actively. If a director decides to have a scene rewritten as a flash back during development of a film, that is much different than a script purchased from a writer with a flash back in it. Essentially the general rule of thumb is for writers to avoid flashbacks unless they are absolutely necessary for the narrative and even then triple check to be sure it couldn't be written any other way. Another thing to remember is that films have "sub-plots" that run parallel to the main story and must intersect with the main story by the third act. What appears to the viewer as two separate parallel stories are in fact the main plot and the subplot of a story. There have been many examples of non-linear films being produced. "Memento" is the one that comes to my mind first. The thing is that as interesting as Memento is to watch, it is not and was not commercially successful because it was difficult for Joe Sixpack to follow. That fact doesn't diminish the film at all, but when a studio is trying to recover its investment in a film, this becomes very important. To write a script like that takes a lot of skill and experience as a screenwriter to do it well enough as Memento was. Another situation is the studio system seeing increasing anemia in the writing pool. With studios and producers preferring "known" talent and directors writing their own material (which often times produces less than stellar results - it's like a plumber trying to re-wire his house. He can do it, but the results will be clumsy compared to that of a professional electrician ), focused, professionally crafted scripts by "outsiders" are not being read as much as they could be. The writing community sees the need for fresh blood and many accomplished writers are making efforts to develop that new breed, but if their is no money or success to be had from screewriting, eventually that talent pool will dry up and we'll be left with increasingly poor films coming out of the major studios; or we'll see many outstanding indie films that could have been greater if they had a better budget.

The VF-25 picture is probably just a display sculpt. So far Bandai has never released a non-transforming Valk - ever! Probably why Hasegawa's Macross kits usually outlast the Bandai ones. Hasegawa's kits are cheaper to produce (since they re-use the same molds over and over) and are only made different by the decal sets the kits come with. No need to spend all that money on engineering a transforming kit or use all that extra plastic to mold it. Doubtful the Monster is a re-issue since the original monster by Yamato was 1/100 scale if I remember correctly (was kinda hoping it would be the same one, to go along with the VF100 line or Hi-Metal 1/100 line).