Zinjo

Well actually they fly around looking for Supervision Army fleets to flight. The SDF 1 was originally an SA gunship that they tracked down. They wanted the ship to destroy until they saw it had the legendary Reaction weapons aboard, then they wanted to capture it for those weapons.

I don't subscribe to the notion that the AUN battles were part of the UN Wars. The chronology is too vague to "assume" the AUN were even part of those territorial disputes. We don't hear of any AUN activity until 2002 as opposed to 2000 when the UN Wars began. ____________________________________________________________________ "July (2000) Outbreak of dispute in People's Republic of Garalia in the Middle East. The frequent disputes and internal conflicts occurring hereafter in all areas of the world become collectively known as the U.N. Wars." "July (2002) First Defensive Battle for South Ataria Island against an Anti-U.N. Army attack." The UN Wars are declared over in 2007: "January 20 (2007) Conclusion of U.N. Wars" ____________________________________________________________________ There is no mention of any victories, or even the terms of the ceasefire, it is assumed the UNG won, but we just don't know. It could have ended in a stalemate just the same or it was indeed territorial disputes that finally were resolved and the AUN Army was a separate enemy to SPACY & the UNG. The events of Mac Zero take place in 2008 a year after the "conclusion" of the UN Wars. ____________________________________________________________________ "September (2008) The U.N. government and Anti-U.N. forces secretly deploy the VF-0 and SV-51 respectively while disputing over a recently discovered phenomenon on the island of Mayan in the South Pacific Ocean. (The events are kept secret for at least five decades.)" ____________________________________________________________________ If the events on Mayan Island were kept secret for 50 years, would it not also be conceivable that the AUN war also be kept secret? There would be little more threatening news to the public peace and security than the knowledge of a factional force armed with the same type of bleeding edge weapons systems as the UNG has. Not to mention the fact that these systems were developed by "defectors" to that cause. Then there is the idea that this adversary is still conducting operations a year after the announced "conclusion" to the publicized UN Wars. Well it wasn't Britain who ignored Hitler, it was America, Britain and much of Western Europe were trying to "negotiate" with the lunatic, hoping to avoid another continental war. However, I don't believe that was the case. I tend to support the notion that the UNG were trying to fight this separate war in secret, to keep the public from panic. I may have been fairly easy up until the AUN upped the ante and revealed they had variable fighters too! Yes it would be interesting to see the AUN side of the conflict. The only revealed motives from the show is the desire to gain control of a newly discovered ancient weapon. No doubt from the AUN's point of view, this weapon would counter the power of the UNG's SDF1. I suspect that at the core of the conflict was a difference in ideology in how the world government should utilize the OTEC and govern the people.

What calmed my ire about Mac 7 was when "sketchley" clearly pointed out IT IS A KID's SHOW, nothing of any greater importance than the Hanna Barbera shlock we grew up with. Armed with that, I was finally able to just roll my eyes and move on to Macross Zero which is much closer to my tastes of Macross story telling. Some love that show, others love anything Kawamori touches, I prefer to be a bit more discerning in my tastes. The show isn't a total write off, but it aint no 'regular' Macross series that we've come to enjoy. There had to be some things that kept you watching till the end? For me it was the characterizations and how they interacted with each other that I found fun and that kept me watching. I too would relegate it to an "alternate" universe demise, or at least the show that we should "never say the name"...

Anyone know the name of the artist who did these? I'm trying to track down more of their work.

It could also be attributed to resources and secrecy. The AUN as well equipped and supported as it was, may not have had the same amount of resources at it's disposal as the UNG or most likely, they were limited by the need for secrecy, thus lower profile production facilities. The UNG had no such secrecy constraints and could build and test big ass destroids as much as they wanted. The deployment of the SV-51 was a surprise to SPACY, so that tells us just how secret the AUN projects were. The pilots we saw in Mac Zero were probably Ivanov's test team. So while Ivanov's "pirates" (my name, not canon) were engaging the Skull team, other AUN pilots were likely in training elsewhere.

The compendium does state: "since it was planned from the beginning for actual combat, its practicality and stability in combat situations is higher than the VF-0's." It has a shorter cruising range than the VF-0, but is far more maneuverable and it's transformation sequence takes longer. The VF-1 also has a smaller sillouette, is armored and has no range limitations. It is clear that the design characteristics of the SV-51 are ahead of it's time, hence being used 30 years later in a VF design. The fact that both the SV series and the VF series came out at the same time leads me to believe they were developed at parallel times by different groups with the same information. I have no doubt a nuclear SV series fighter was in development or like the VF-1's simply waiting for a nuclear engine to power it. It's the next logical step in the evolution of both series of fighters. I don't know, Sketchley and I seem to be bouncing back and forth on that topic...

That is a real possibility, however for that to take place, the UNG would have to know about the SV-51 prior to it's revelation, which isn't mentioned. Is it possible that the theory or engineering existed, but the AUN engineers were able to implement it first? Since the SV-51 was designed and produced as an atmospheric fighter from the beginning, unlike the VF series. Not sure how this statement fits with the rest of them. Maybe, but I am leaning toward the idea that the AUN and SPACY war was not publically known, similar to the events on Mayan Island. That the facts were "sealed" for 50 years along with the Mayan Island incident. It would fit the description of the UN Wars being mostly territorial disputes and the fact that the AUN forces are not mentioned in the chronology until 2 years into the conflicts. If the "control" of the technology was the basis for the war between the two sides, it would support the need to keep things quiet. That line makes no sense whatsoever. Sorry, but why bother investing in creating a whole arsenal of warcraft that are poorly equipped, with ill-trained pilots, and no tactics? (Sounds like the Zentraedi...) It makes more sense to invest more time and energy into perfecting the tactics and training of these elite units. It makes perfect sense. If one side has the ability to build bleeding edge weaponry, why stop at a variable fighter and submersible mecha? I'm not necessarily suggesting they build up the same number of mecha as SPACY, but one would reasonably expect them to come up with more than just two types?! They are a well funded and supported military force, and they choose to stop developing advanced vehicles at two in order to "train"? Doesn't sound like a brilliant strategy to topple the UNG to me. I beg to differ. We are looking at a 8 year span for destroids and 6 years to this point for variable fighters. I'm sure it didn't take 5-6 years to develop, build and test the F-22 did it? In the timeline we are talking about massive leaps in knowledge and engineering in mere months and even years. In 6 years, after the decision to build one, OTEC has a nearly complete nuclear powered variable jet aircraft and fully functional turbine powered jets. We know that a year later the VF-1 has been mass produced. So if the AUN are as capable as the UNG in developing mecha (as we know they are) then why limit themselves to such few types? That is the question I posed and still find a bit mysterious if one is to subscribe to the notion that the AUN had the technology first that they'd limit themselves in such a way.

I don't recall that quote, when did she say it? The Compendium is vague and that specific subject, it describes it as being obtained "illicitly" yet the details are not revealed. Since the UNG controlled South Ataria island the only way the AUN forces could have obtained the information is for one if it's operatives to have stolen it or for them to have gained it from defectors who stole the information themselves. The two sides were at war, whether that war was public knowledge is another matter, since the compendium states that the events on Mayan Island were kept secret for 50 years after the fact. One could also wonder if the whole AUN / SPACY war was also kept secret? Not necessarily. The SV-51 may have been developed in parallel to the VF-1 project and was clearly deployed first, but that particular aircraft was not going to be much of a match for the smaller, more powerful VF-1 that was designed to be armored and trans-atmospheric. Since the SV-51 doesn't use the Nuclear Reaction engines (which were delayed) that the VF-1 needs, naturally it would be deployed for combat operations first. Ivanov was the flight instructor for the VF-X test team, so he and Roy knew each other. Since Ivanov would have been responsible for devising combat exercises for testing, it is only natural that he'd adopt many of those plans into his pilot training with the SV-51. The VF-0 was deployed initially as a test bed for OTEC systems, it was pressed into combat when the AUN revealed the existence of the SV-51 fighter and the VF-1 was still not powered. With the SV-51 being a completed fighter (not attempting to utilize Reaction engines like the VF-1), it is very likely to have been deployed earlier and thus it's pilots more atuned to flying it. This is the reason why there was such a lack of success the test pilots of the Skull Squadron had when engaging that variable fighter for the first time. This doesn't imply the fighter was developed first, only that it was likely deployed for combat first. As I said, it is very likely it was developed at the same time as the VF series, since many OTEC and SPACY personnel defected over to the AUN side of the conflict. These would have taken all their experience and knowledge with them when they left. There is no doubt Mac Zero established the AUN as much more than some terrorist organization, but actually a fully supported and supplied army with a clear mission and objectives. It has skilled OTEC engineers that are capable of designing their own mecha. We could equally assume the VF-0 predated the SV-51s, but they were mere test beds for new OTEC rather than combat aircraft. We are given every indication that the VF-1 was ready to go and that airframes were only waiting for their nuclear engines to be made available to mount before they could fly. Remember the VF-0 is larger and capable of using the larger jet engines, unlike the VF-1s. How many Valkyrie squadrons were built and waiting for their engines is not revealed in the show. We do know that two models of Destroids were deployed and in use by UN forces vessels as opposed to the single Octo submersibles the AUN had at the time. According to the compendium all 4 destroid models (early versions) were in service by the time the AUN revealed the SV-51 and the Octo. If this were the case, they would have had more than just the Octo and SV-51 at their disposal, which was not the case during Mac Zero. http://macross.anime.net//mecha/anti_un/va...sv51/index.html You bring up good points, however the OTEC to develop the SV-51 did not originate with the AUN.

Old Bruno lives well after the attack and manages to get elected into the new "Unity Government" at around 2016. It is at this time that Breetai is appointed Commander over the SPACY fleet, essentially taking over where Global left off.

All painted up and purty, sure brings out it's detail... WOW! Nice work, to both!

You will like it MORE! I have both and I haven't finished BC, but I've finished Macross and find myself going back and playing missions over again... You will not be disappointed.

Hey now... Mecha masturbation is what these shows are all about. 412830[/snapback] I don't mind mecha masturbations, in their own threads...

OK, Those who wish to masterbate over the mecha please get your own thread!! The rest of us are trying to discuss fictional politics in the Macross Universe, not who's gun pod is bigger than whos... Thank you for your compliance. Mods, please move or remove any further off topic posts to this thread, particularly the mecha centric ones responding to LowVisLurker. Thanks

HD has been in Japan since the early 80's. The very first HD commercial featured George Lucas, C3PO and R2D2. The reason we haven't seen it in North America until lately is that US TV manufacturers blocked the sale of the technology here and the networks were unwilling to put up the billions necessary to convert all their broadcast equipment over to the new format (that isn't to say they didn't do it over time though). Granted the technology probably wasn't at the same level as it is today, but it did exist. The reason why DVD's have taken off are (in a general market sense): 1. Smaller size 2. No degradation of picture or audio quality over time 3. "Bonus features" (Vhs tapes with "bonus features" usually would cost much more than regular tapes-this includes something as simple as a wide screen aspect ratio). 4. Widescreen presentations (animorphic widescreen in recent years). These are a few of many, not including the technological advantages of digital media. As for Beta, the format was still in wide use among the networks long after it's retail demise. The picture and audio quality was superior to VHS until the advent of SVHS a few years before DVDs entered the market, back in the mid 90's.

Well since the actual nature of the UN Wars is a bit vague, I'd put forth it was likely the specific goal of the AUN forces and whatever nations and/or territories that backed them, to control the information and technology. This force consisting of many former UN and SPACY personnel would have that secret information and would pass it along to their sponsors. Other than that minor point, I agree with sketchley's statement.

The main purpose Bretaii stayed (strongly implied of course) was for the "Long lost Reaction Weapons". I don't recall as much of a reaction given to the microns ability to repair their ship.

You know if LowViz Lurker would stay away from Gundam references and stick to the facts, I'd have a hope and even the inclination to read his "book" aka his "forum post"... I have seen little of Gundam and it may be a very good show, but I don't have the common frame of reference to understand and have no wish to be "educated" in it either. Stick to the basics man or people with stop reading your posts entirely. BTW you wouldn't happen to be an X-Files fan would you? Many conspiracies and secret organizations from this Padawan I fear...

*cough* Germany, pre-WWII *cough* Japan, post WWII *cough* - one must study more history... I think you are misunderstanding 'defeated foe' as being sunonimous with 'ending a war.' Exactly my point, with the exception of Japan. Japan was allowed to build a self defense force under close scrutiny of the US. In fact Japan doesn't have a traditional military, it is seen more as a civil service than a tour of duty, hence how often anime commanders comment on worries about being "fired" as opposed to demoted for failing a mission. Very true, I concede that point. It is very vague as to any particulars. Well that is equally vague. A side would steal technology if they are not allowed access due to an on going conflict. It isn't necessarily because it happened during a post war period. We've already established that the chronology is vague as to the nature of the "conclusion" of the UN Wars. It has not really been established what the UN Wars were either. My reasoning for this point is this "July ( 2000 ) Outbreak of dispute in People's Republic of Garalia in the Middle East. The frequent disputes and internal conflicts occurring hereafter in all areas of the world become collectively known as the U.N. Wars." No where are the AUN organization mentioned. The first time an AUN force is mentioned is: "July (2002) First Defensive Battle for South Ataria Island against an Anti-U.N. Army attack." The question I pose is: Is there room for the UN Wars and a separate AUN conflict or should we assume the two are the same. Mac Zero tends to imply the first of the two questions may be more accurate. .

Spacy developed the OTEC technology for the fighter and the AUN stole the tech and developed their own design. It is very likely the AUN knew of the Zent threat (they had many members who were former Spacy and OTEC personnel), which is why I like to speculate that the AUN were not actually against unification, but against the UNG's idea of unification. They had a different ideology and the would fight for it. Both sides believed they were right and believed their way was for mankind's best interest. Such things sparked wars and threats of wars during the Cold War era and even today.

Could there have possibly been large scale skirmishes between SDF and MPlus that just haven't been fleshed out yet in the actual timeline that could be considered SW2 to whatever. 409820[/snapback] Wasn't the first space war between Spacy and the AUN Alliance? Granted it wasn't large scale, but until the last month or so, neither was the Macross's "SW1"...

You've seen how big Israel is right? I expected someone would... Then how is it, that a defeated foe is allowed to build state of the art fighters using stolen technology, when such a thing hasn't been allowed to happen since WW1? That doesn't make sense to allow an agressive opponent the means to re-build their arms after a "victory" Part of it may come down to what constitutes the "UN Wars"? Are they battles between the AUN and the UNG or are they the global national wars that took place after the crash of the ASS-1? SK could easily split the hair here and say that the "AUN War" was separate from the UN Wars. Since the timeline is fairly specific what the UN Wars were. The UN War could have been the attempt to annex countries into one government, but all that resulted was a splintered world with territories where nations used to stand, some under the umbrella of the UNG and others as autonomous regions. I never said Roy didn't fly the Dragon, but you made my point in reference to how the changed timeline has created some contradictions. Prior to WW2, yes that did happen. Particularly with Germany. Since then any victor in a war tends to either disarm or disband the losing army. I find it hard to believe such a thing would not happen again. If indeed the UN Wars are about the battles between the AUN and the UNG, then I would reiterate what I stated earlier about allowing an agressive enemy to build state of the art variable aircraft and mecha after they lost. It doesn't make any sense to me, especially from a histroical perspective. We used to know "for certain" that Roy hadn't flown in combat since 2007, but Macross Zero now contradicts that statement. That is as reasonable a possibility as I've proposed. Both could be explored quite fully. .

E-bay always has the OST bouncing around somewhere. Look there.

Make sure you have NOTHING running in the background when you encode the DVD or it will do strange crap like that. Basically start the encode process (best if done offline if you have broadband) and leave it alone until it's done. I've found even the smallest of programs you run can affect the final encoded video.

Well that's now that's cast into question with the release of Mac Zero and SK's revision of the timeline. Now if BW decided to re-do SDF Macross to have a solely owned version of the story, anything would be possible then. The timeline mentions that the UN wars were over by 2007, yet the AUN had 38 units built and at Mayan Island (2008) there only appears to be 1 Squadron (8 fighters max) in that incident. It appears a bit of a discrepancy may exist. If the war was over, why build 4 squadrons of SV-51s? I'd expect that the story of the Unification War is not entirely over, maybe it's simply resting for the moment. They developed their own adaptation of the VF series from the stolen OTEC . The one thing that bothers me is that Israel is part of the design team with Sukhoi industries. THAT wouldn't happen! The alliance between the US and Israel is very strong and they wouldn't be on opposite sides of a conflict. Russia? Sure! China, the Arab states, Eastern Europe and even Germany I could believe, but not Isreal. I suspect this was considered a natural progression as currently Russia and Israel are working on a few joint military projects. However in such a conflict as this, I just can't see them aligning with the AUN, as it offers them no benefit. It appears that the Grand Cannon in Australia was destroyed by the AUN forces, but no mention is made of nukes. In Russian it is implied that tactical nukes are used, but it isn't clear whether it is OTEC reaction nukes or just cold war era nukes.

Well considering the VF-1 was smaller than the VF-0, it needed the smaller nuclear engines to be "ready". Thus, eventhough the airframe was ready, it simply couldn't fly. I personally believe there is more to the Unification war that still could be told. As for South Ataria island, it was essentially "sunk" when the Macross folded and took most of the surface of it to Pluto's orbit. The island would still exist as a reef or even a crescent shaped land mass, but as a whole it was transported into space. I was not really commenting on the post war AUN, which one could argue was a completely different animal entirely. The issues and supporters of the original were most likely wiped out during SW1.