Zinjo

Well you can't argue common sense and in terms of direct control one can argue that the guitar stick could offer more, however I would suspect that with a control system like a Variable fighter, a designer would rather have such switches at the pilot's finger tips or as part of the control stick. So the idea of reaching for a control during combat would not be an issue. Modern fighters have all their combat "necessary" controls around the joystick or throttle. I would expect a military VF to have similar design characteristics, where all the needed controls are within a finger's reach. Optional controls are not. The old labelled sliders we saw in SDFM would have long been abandonded by the 2040's. If they were used at all, since it has been stated that DYRL is what SK wanted as the visual design of SDF Macross to actually be, while the SDFM series was where the story was. Both in Mac Zero and DYRL we see that the pilot activates the Gerwalk mode by pulling the throttle lever up on the early Variable Fighters, unlike the series' slider switches. The biggest problem with the guitar stick I see, is you'd be flying your fighter in a manner similar to churning butter. It would be difficult to utilize the controls on the stick and control the craft in a combat situation. There is also the risk of pilot injury due to being exposed to the g-forces produced by thrust vectoring while "churing" his fighter in a dog fight situation. One could expect instances of whiplash as part of combat flight injuries, with such a control system.

IIRC, (I'd have to double check the line art) the VF-1 had two separate sets of controls. One for jet flight and another used for Battroid piloting. I don't recall the Macross Plus controls of the VF-19, but the Mac II controls integrated the flight and battroid controls. The explanation is conceiveable, however, I somehow question whether anyone on the production staff gave it much more thought past, "I would look cool if..." or "The audience is gonna love it when..."

Nothing is new under the sun. SK simply recycled the hero type of the 60's and 70's who seemed super human in their abilities. To me, Basara would have been more acceptable as a character had he been somewhat surprised at his ability to "sing spiritia power", but as I recall, he just accepted it without missing a beat (no pun intended). Could he have been a child of Mao or even the Nome bloodline? It's plausible. If this were indeed true, then it would further my point that he is more like a superman than a human. I do agree that mac 7 filled a niche in the market and I have no doubt that at that time it was fresh and new compared to all the shows surrounding it. However it is profoundly different in it's presentation of the similar themes from the original. I find it juvenile, but then again I find the SW prequels juvenile as well, yet the fans who have seen the Prequels first and the originals second dont' agree on that point. That's fine. I can respect an opposing position, so long as they don't demand I change my opinion. That's because we aren't trying to change the other's mind or taking opposing opinions as attacks... This may well be true, but it just seems like a waste of a character and as JBO said he was the star who got most of the screentime. How many star characters are presented as a force of nature? True, Superman has the holgram of Jor-el... It wasn't so much his lack of flaws, but more his lack of growth as a person. He didn't evolve. Much like the Superman character in comics, he is already the apparent ideal, thus "boring". I don't view it as juvenile because of the themes presented, more because of HOW they were presented. The principles of this particular story are unique to be sure, but was it necessary to have a pink VF-11 or musical instruments as flight controls, etc...? That is where the divergence generally comes from. I think Keith has successfully argued that the themes of Mac 7 are consistent with the franchise, however that isn't were people generally take issue with it.

After mentioning it, it occured to me that Basara was written much like a super hero for the show, they guy can sing spiritia, fly like an ace and has no "apparent" flaws that he needs to grow out of and has a mysterious past that no one knows about really. It's like watching a Macross Superman, he just don't seem human... Hell one could start a whole new thread debating whether the guy is actually human at all, considering how enigmatic his past is and how unnaturally powerful he appears to be... It also explains why I didn't really care for him at all. I don't much care for Superman, I'm more of a Batman or Spiderman kinda guy...

Well considering what backstory was revealed in SDFM and the contemporary fighter to the F-14 was the Mig 29, it really isn't a surprise that the initial scenarios are similar. What is more astonishing that any RT writer would come up with something like that, not so much that it is similar to Mac Zero.

My opinion is exactly that, entirely subjective. I don't expect to change Keith's mind about Macross 7 anymore than I expect him to change mine. On subjects that I felt were going nowhere or could go nowhere, I would close with "IMO", since it is a preference issue, that is individually subjective. I don't apologize for such posts. I am fully aware that SDFM was a kids show, but it clearly wasn't targeted for the same age group as M7, which is my position. Younger kids can suspend disbelieve on a wider range of things and don't require as much drama to be entertained as opposed to older ones in the adolescent ranges. Please re-read the quotes I am referring to. In one paragraph the PD are proported to be self aware "captial ships", in the next they are possessed "capital ships" ( I use the term capital ships, because the larger ones had the power and size of one, no other reason), I want to know what Keith is describing them to be as there is a contradiction in his explanation. On the contrary, I am responding to comments made by Keith to someone else who brought up how "flat" Basra is as a character. I never stated Gigil was a minor character, Keith assumed I did. I stated I didn't become emotionally attached to his tragedy and thus didn't care much about his death. I was more touched by the whole Basara / Sivil story arc than anything Gigil did. Which is why I like the Mylene character the best out of all the characters in the show, Sivil was second. Both grew a lot during the series. Maybe so, but not enough for people to identify with him. He's the super hero of the story and for kids that's great, but for older viewers not so much. The only time I truly empathized with the character was when he took personal responsibility for what happened to Sivil and tried to revive her. He came across as actually "human".

Yes well Noyhauser we are well aware of how many Mac 7 lovers "hate" differing "opinions", not all, but several. Kinda makes respecting their arguments difficult, when they refuse to respect the arguments of others....

Which part? The giants? Their ignorant fear of something they don't understand? I find no hypocricy there... Sounds very plausible in an SF universe. When you've talked to a pilot, we'll discuss this one further... Ok so then according to you which are they? PC built bio-engineered ships or self aware ships? I don't dispute the technology that created them, I personally feel the adversary of the series could have been better and didn't need to be Giant space monsters. Not so.... GI Joe was a contemporary of Robowreck and RT showed the deaths of Kakizaki and Roy. There was a parental outcry over it, but the show wasn't shut down, nor were the episodes ever censored. The sanitizing of Joe was done by the producers not the censors. Hell it was the Regan 80s, guns were good! That wasn't my point. My point is that he wasn't a dramatic character who took time to grow, thus a perfect hero for a kid... That's true, Mac 7 was very superficial compared to SDFM, hence the debate. Superficiality works for a younger audience, older audiences like adolescents and over tend to be attracted to more dramatic stories and themes. Looks have little to do with it, I've already stated my specific reasons and they are not based on ignorance.

They were also incredibly naive and gullible. They had no concept of fiction, and ASSUMED they were watching a historical documentary. It actually reminds me of the movie Galaxy Quest. "Basara, Youuu are our only hope......" LOL

SH*T sorry dude! Actually this is the worst thread to read if you haven't seen the series yet. You should form your own opinions on the series before reading this.

LOL, yes gimme more magic battery juice or we crash!! C'mon, don't be shy whip 'em out...

Well Macek's "Sentinels" was abandoned so hopefully the powers that be shelved the notion that Minmay stowed away on the SDF-3. At the very least, SC could be a decent sequel to Mospeada. Maybe they'll sell it in Japan and we'll get to see how the Japanese would tell the same story, without the RT universe... That could be cool, considering Mospeada's premise was pretty good. Anyway, I'm going to Anime Evolution in Vancouver next weekend and HG is going to have a panel, so I'll go and check it out...

None were principal characters, they were supporting at best, except for Gigil and frankly I was never drawn in enough to his tragedy to really care that he died. Physica was given some background, but only in an attempt to garner the audience's sympathy. Kind of too little too late. In SDF you have 2 main characters and a few related characters who die. You get to know Kakizaki and Roy and when they fall you have an emotional response to it. When Admiral Hayse goes up with the Grand Canon you can empathyse with Misa, I never developed any care for the fates of Kinyru, Physica or Gigil. I felt for Sivil and even a bit of sympathy for Basra's attempts to revive her, but not much more than that. The same thing goes for the Megaroad 13 populace. OK they possibly died... and? It's like watching a Star Trek episode, it's an interesting piece of information that explains part of the story, but has no real impact on the viewer. You can't dismiss the tragedy, but you don't really care about the people either, because the viewer was completely insulated from the incident.

Continued.... Huh? They were light years away and able to communicate regularly, exactly how did they get abandoned I'm not quite sure about that last one. If they were so similar, then why all the debates? Clearly a change was made. IMO it was that the target audience was a younger age for Mac 7 than SDFM and thus what worked for one audience doesn't work for another. To deny this reality is only to fool one's self.

Because it is explained that they have never known such things and as such would be fearful of it as is typical of most people who become afraid of something they don't understand... You got me there, I don't ever recall seeing that in the series, I will need to refresh my memory on that point. I didn't make any arguments on that subject as it's been debated to death... Really? Ask a few pilots and then get back to me on that one.... Actually THAT is YOUR assumption and your logic processes, not mine. Ahh, but they were'nt ships were they, they were Monsters... Had they been similar to Sivil, but capable of taking over any mechanical device or could "become" as powerful as a captial ship, I would have liked them better, but that is my preference. The AFOS doesn't need mechanical parts to do it's job, so why would the PC have grown them? Well since you brought up the GI Joe show.... Kinda sounds familiar huh? You really must stop trying to assume what my expectations are... You see your description of Basara is not dramatic, he only sings really well. Where as your description of the character who must overcome obstacles is more dramatic. My daughter never had much time for dramatic characters, but ones who were flashy or could sing well...she had plenty of time for. Hence my point. True. Had the show that started it all been given 52 episodes, it would have faced the same issues. That doesn't mean it would be any less annoying...

I understood it was originally intended to be a parody, but that changed in pre-production. There was little slapstick about the show by the time it aired. IMO, SDFM carried more of a science fiction adventure theme because of the dramatic subjects it tackled and the setting the characters found themselves in. I am unable to really categorize Macross 7 myself. Probably others would do better than I in that respect.

That doesn't prove it was "more" or "as" sophisticated or dramatic as SDF. It did reveal more about Protoculture, but mostly to justify the space monsters. The revelations that directly relate back to SDF is the further explanation about the Supervision Army and the Civil War. You make an awfully large assumption about what I write off... I found the fact that a civilian having a state of the art military fighter that has been customized to be flown using a guitar and that the same civilian was not arrested for flying said aircraft into a military operation, thus endangering pilots, to be "kiddie" as only children would accept that (I won't comment on the Kai's "face" or the Sound Force fighters as that's just redundant). I found the notion of "giant" monsters grown to wage war is more of a throw back to Dancougar and Mazinger and those types of shows. I found the AFOS much more believable as a bio-engineered weapon than the PD. Thus making Macross 7 aimed more at a "kiddie" audience than not. The anti-war sentiment in threaded throughout all the Macross shows, in SDF the sentiment was displayed by showing the devastating affects of wars, not Hikaru flying around shouting into his radio to "Listen to my message!". Unfortunately for your assumption, I don't write off Macross 7, I simply categorize it as a children's show and enjoy it for what it is. I give it no more expectation than I would any other superior animated kids show. Thus your pigeon hole attempt does not apply to me... I never made any technical complaints against macross 7. The only ones I could make are the blatantly recycled battle footage and maybe the character design of the twin PD, whatever their names were. Please do go on, Ive become intrigued...

Will the Strike Cannon be able to fire?

The VF-17 is one badass battroid, too bad the fighter looks like crap...

So what part is contestable? That Macross 7 is a very good kids show or that Japanese adults, who enjoy anime, often avoid bringing it up because of the social stigma about Otaku? From your comments I gleen that you are saying that Macross 7 is as thought provoking and dramatic as SDF Macross? Interesting theory, care to back THAT up? Good luck, since all the debates on the subject are based on personal tastes and opinions... Comparatively speaking, SDF Macross is far more sophisticated in its story and execution than Macross 7, IMO. However, I enjoyed several aspects of Mac 7 too, just not as many as the first series. Mac 7 to me, is kinda like what Gundam Seed is to many old school Gundam fans. Very popular right now, but not what MS Gundam started out as. Since a like or dislike of any bit of pop culture is based on personal opinion and tastes, to attempt to challenge someone to "change their minds" based on your arguments is somewhat juvenille. As well as to accuse them of being closed minded because their personal tastes don't mirror yours is also childish. I get the sense that the next step in this vein would be to start name calling...

~~~Bump~~~

Then we should ask the mods to pin it at the top of the section so we keep all the walls in one place...

WOW! RC Shipbuilding 101...

I suspect the whole "display" at the airshow was to show off the manueverability of the new fighter with "hinged" engine nacelles allowing for greater Thrust vectoring ability of the jets. I wonder why anyone would see the need for some magical energy system as the armor on the VF-1 (particulary since they didn't know of the possibility of a pin-point barrier until months later)? We already know that composite ceramics can be twice as strong as steel and weigh less than a fraction of it. It more conceivable that OTEC allowed for revolutionary advances in material design and processing. Things like transparent aluminum and super strong ultra light skinning materials that would have been used on the VF-1 fighters. Hikaru describes to Minmay that the bulkhead they found in the SDF-1 were made of "Hypercarbon Steel", not something we use today... I tend to agree with JBO with respect to the anti-radar systems on the VF-1. With the advances of OTEC they could have had many options to work with in employing the stealth system.

Not really, I suspect not many Japanese adults would admit to watching much anime as it is looked down on in society because of the Otaku Killer. However I hear that such notions are waning as the years pass. So you are left with kids who would enthusiastically support a show directed to their demographic. Let's face it Mac 7 is a very good kids show...