Zinjo

I feel like I'm in school!! Thanks for the info DH, very informative!

Try these: They aren't cheap but they are worth it! http://www.hlj.com/product/MOV01629 http://www.hlj.com/product/MOV01629 http://www.valkyrie-exchange.com/video-boo...uss-Design.html http://www.hlj.com/product/IPC35843 http://www.animenation.com/484435843x.html Suplemental books are the "This is Animation" books for the various shows.

I wasn't discussing Japan I was discussing Kawamori specifically. And no other culture wants this? I agree that this point is far too simplistic a view of Japanese culture. As pointed out already the early Gundam franchise disproves that theory somewhat. Not so, in an interview with SK it was asked why he brought back the Jenius' and his answer was as I stated. He really didn't have any particular family in mind for the role of Mylene's parents until that point. Mac Zero is another instance where seeing Fokker was superfluous to the story, in that it could have been any pilot testing the VF-0S. It didn't have to be Roy in particular, but it was. The story centered around Shin, Sara, Mao and the AFOS, everyone else were more supporting characters and stories. It was nice to see some back story on Roy, but if your assertion is absolute then why bother including him, as you say, his story has been told and now they are "recycling old plot points"...

Well that is a bit misleading, since in today's market with so many anime programs becoming more and more "broad based" in hopes of finding a second life in the North American & international markets. Essentially studios and toy companies are looking at double dipping in both the Japanese and international markets, not only for licensing fees but also merchadise exports. It is highly doubtful that Mac 7 will ever be licensed for North American distribution, because it is so heavily reliant on the music which is not in English, it is a kids show and eventhough there is a market for such shows here, it isn't as strong as the adolescent and adult markets. I suspect North American audiences would find Basara a bit difficult to believe. Hence why Macross Plus is much better received here than it was in Japan and how many fans here pan Macross 7, yet in Japan it was a hit back in it's day. Why many fans here will chose Mac II with all it's flaws because it is more dramatic in story and tone and reminiscent of SDFM than Mac 7. As teen and adult fans tend to appreciate more complex stories and the Japanese market is stuck in the same corporate mire of feeding their target demographics as the North American networks are. It is unfortunate that Japan doesn't have the same cable system as we do here to provide a market for alternative visions from the studios, like Scifi and HBO... The fact that Kawamori chose Max Jenius to Captain Battle 7 because he heard he was a fan favorite here tells you how early the trend toward looking at international markets had started in Japan. Macross would probably be much more popular here if it wasn't for the constant market interference by HG. Essentially they've stolen all the thunder from SDFM by veiling it in their RT brand. So by that assumption that roughly translates to 1.25 million people are aware of Macross and that may or may not include the toy collectors who's demand still merit the production of new variable valkyrie toys, kits and collectible figures every year. Some of that demand is international to be sure, but if there isn't a domestic market to recover costs then what's the point...? However I agree with one poster who pointed out that SK's penchant for "new is always better" has definintely affected the available stories in the universe and not in a good way. Fans want to see their favorite heroes back in action encountering new challenges and growing, not always being introduced to new strangers who will star in the story. I suspect that is why all fans can agree that the Jenius' in Mac 7 are one of the favorite features of that show. However, I do wonder if SK isn't revising his position as in the last two show's he's worked on, characters from the original SDFM featured prominantly in them as sort of an anchor to the original show. I am thinking some new blood is necessary to collaborate on some fresh stories for the franchise or it will indeed die a slow death very soon.

Well I'll reply before Keith jumps in guns a blazing... I like them both for various reasons, but prefer mac II as it stayed closer to the core of SDFM. The dropped plot threads and the under developed Marduk (who should have been the SA), the weak plot points that did become distracting at times, however it was innovative in asking a question, "What if the enemy used song too?" Mac 7 had great characterizations (dispite the superhuman Basara), particularly the Jenius' and Sivil. It was just as fun to watch as it was difficult to endure at times. The music tends to grow on you, even if you wanted to kill the writer of Planet Dance by the end of the 5th episode and avert your eyes when Battle 7 turned into an actual "Shogun Warrior" with a gun... For a kids show it was pretty good, but not my cup o' tea. I've debated the merits of both series and accepted their flaws. I still prefer Mac II for it's mecha, premise, and attempt at recreating the drama of SDFM and DYRL. Too bad it didn't have the inspired characterizations of Mac 7 to carry it further, but characterizations were not enough to sway me to Macross 7 ...

Yeah, if you look closely it appears that the cockpit is at 45 degrees and is only sheilded not covered like the VF series of fighters... Here's a thread with picks of the animated transformation sequence. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...13341&st=60

The "YF-31" shrongly reminds me of the Battle 7. Are you sure Miyatake didn't design that one? Possibly a collaboration?

Nice to see some gunship designs from Kawamori, very nice!

Actually he was next in line after Fokker, but went missing, himself for a month....

Yes, in the scene when the three encounter Millia on the ocean, Max is flying the VF-1S. When Max goes MIA in the Meltran capital ship the command of the Skull squadron then goes to Hikaru.

THAT IS BRILLIANT dude! Do you have a hires version of it?

I take it those are meant to be micro-missiles?

I'm done. I've successfully argued my points about Mac 7 in previous threads, which is why I am not interested in rehashing old battles. Mac II always get's the tired old "we saw this in DYRL" without any definative proof, arguments invariably takes the place of microscoping the minutia of the movie which is weak at best and tedious at worst. If Grebo Guru wants to read those threads, the search function will help him in that respect. Baiting Keith about Mac 7 can be fun, but there are more intersting arguments to read. If you haven't noticed Grebo, the gentleman known as Keith is a hardcore, diehard, Mac 7 fan and his POV is often colored by that. A smart and knowledgeable guy, but that is his achilles heal...

No it isn't an SU-27! It was developed from the existing SU-27 airframe. It was once designated the SU-27M when it was still in development, but became known as the SU-35 during testing and then the SU-37 with the thrust vectoring system. The SU-37s were put into production but were shortly thereafter converted back to the SU-35 version and they are now in production for the Russian airforce. Then main differences between the SU-35 & 37 is the thrust vectoring system of the SU-37. The Naval variant is the SU-33 which doesn't sport the canards, but has all the other features of the SU-35. The picture is indeed a two seater, but of an SU-35 fighter/bomber variant, like the one that crashed at the Paris air show.

Well I am talking about an SU-35 "Super" Flanker, not the SU-27 Flanker. I agree that the cropped wing tips are absent, however the animated fighter shows distinctive differences from the Mig 29 including the canards, which lends itself closer to the SU-35 rather than the Mig. No doubt Kawamori was looking to create some sort of hybrid between the two as the AUN fighter's canards are placed differently as well.

Here is the toned down wall along with the original file I used. Wallpaper: http://members.shaw.ca/zinjo3/Index/Pics/M...ch-1024-Wp2.jpg Original: http://members.shaw.ca/zinjo3/Index/Pics/F...road_escort.jpg

Yes, one's a Mig and the other an SU. The fighter pictured is not a Mig. It is one of the fighters from DD Ivanov's squadron, a support fighter for the SV-51's based on the stealth sub. This pic is from the all out battle at the climax of the story in episode 5 and isn't listed on the official Mac Zero website. Just like the Monster isn't listed, but it does appear in the show. This is not a Mig and if you look closely at the animation, you will see the distinctive mig engine vents on top of the fuselage are missing as well as the fact that no Mig has canards, only the SU's use them.

Gentlemen what you are looking at in this screeny appears to be a derivative of the SU-35 Super Flanker with moved forward canards.

Um the Grand Cannon is from SDFM not DYRL... Anyway that is not the meat of my argument anyway... You are confusing the PD mind control with the Marduk's. It was the PD mind controlled humans who were little better than drooling zombies when found as opposed to the Zentran of the Marduk. The music was used to control their violent tendancies, not fetch a stick. The Marduk controlled the level of aggression via the various songs the emulators sang. When not in battle they appeared to be induced to sleep or into a catatonic state until next needed. I suggest you watch it again, but this time with a bit of objectivity. The music of the emulators was akin to soothing the savage beast, and it had everything to do with the equation. When Feff goes to retrieve Ishtar one of the bridge officers advises against it because he didn't have an emulator to control the Zentran, his response was " I don't care if I can control their violence" . Even without an emulator the Zentran accompanying him were able to effectively funcition, thus your theory doesn't hold up at all. The Minmay defense didn't work because the enemy was programmed only to respond to their emulators and the culture shock affect only irritated and momentarily confused the Zentreadi, it didn't paralize them as in DYRL. The only brainwashed Varuta shown to display such abilities were the vampires in City 7, the pilot they captured was little more than a zombie until Firebomber's music revived him. I put forth that it was the Varuta's mind control that was more of a pavlovina response, unless the mission demanded more autonomous behavior. ~~~~ I would suggest we drop this topic Keith, as we will never agree and the argument will go on for pages. Similar to the argument about Macross 7's kiddie nature... Both arguments will take forever and nether of us will be convinced of the other's POV. I'd rather not hijack this thread for that.

Those ARE the colors from the original art, I simply increased the color saturation, nothing more. I can tone them down, however it tends to make the wall fairly bland looking. I'll see what I can do.

I expect that the term "Supervision" is the preferred English name as the English term implies inspection as part of the job of a supervisor.

Saying that Mac II didn't cover anything new is like saying Mac 7 totally "sucked". Both are generalizations and both are wrong. Kamjin and Laplamis were both drunk when they kissed, implying that it wasn't all that "easy" to dismiss human culture or music. Not to mention that just like anything, you become accustomed to something the more you are exposed to it. So Earth bound Zents would have a greater resistance to culture as opposed to fresh troops from space. However, Mac II explored the "what if" question of a failed music/culture defense... It also explored what if the enemy used music to motivate their troops too! The idea of Spacy becoming so complacent with easy victories over rogue Zent fleets that they were completely unprepared for an enemy imune to the defence they had become to rely on so heavily. The cover up and censorship of the truth so keep the populace in the dark while the Earth faced very real annhilliation. The first instance of microns using mind control to control their Zent soldiers, we later find out in Mac 7 that is how the PD ran the Supervision Army as well (hence the reason why I would have like them to be the SA as it would actually fit into the canon timeline in that respect). I would have rather that the Marduk be the Supervision Army and the series lasted longer as well as a few other bits changed, but it currently is what it is.

I'm still trying to find the location of the Destroid elevators on the Carrier... Though one would think that the AUN sub would be escorted by other subs, the only time it would need surface protection is when it surfaced itself and from what I recall it rarely, if ever, did. As for Sketch's comments about his detractors not posting anything new, that is simply because no new arguments from his end were posted to rebut, just expansions of existing speculated premises.

Another Megaroad Launching Wall: http://members.shaw.ca/zinjo3/Index/Pics/M...1024x768-Wp.jpg

Actually the VF-22 (YF-21) when in battroid mode is designed after the Q-Rau power armor, nothing like Gundam, the YF-19 however, shares many design similarities. However, if one didn't know what those pods actually were on the YF-19's shoulders they might think they were miniature macross canons or at least high powered fast pack guns along the vein of the strike canon from DYRL.