Zinjo

Let's keep in mind that Macross was the last thing SK wanted to be doing in 1992, he had a brilliant idea about test pilots and was shopping that around. If BigWest revisited a show that you essentially divorced yourself from you may very well watch it to see someone else's vision. If you were to get involved in the show again, naturally you'd ensure that your version was very different from someone else's vision, particularly if it limited your creativity in future stories. I would, it is a natural progression. In order to not have to answer questions about comparisons or accusations of copying, you'd never publically admit to seeing it and that also insulates you from any commentary on it, in light of the fact that your own sponsor owns that production as well. It simply makes common sense to me that he'd never admit to it so long as he is involved in doing Macross productions.

Ah yes, they created it out of the military forces they brainwashed in the Varuata system and the systems they began to invade. When one considers that the PD controlled 30% of a galactic republic and several hundred systems, you get a sense of just how big the SA became in only 3 months.

If you wrote the books, you'd be curious....

Well that's probably the best explanation yet as to why there was a perpendicular departure from what was done in Mac II. When your future is already set it does indeed limit your creative options... I am fairly convinced SK has seen Mac II, why wouldn't he? It's the whole curiousity thing. It also raised the question as to the origins of the mind control idea. Was it copied or what it always that way (Keith don't bother answering we already know your position on this one ) since the PD and their involvement with the SA was not brought into the Nue continuity until after the release of Mac II... No doubt the debate will rage on....

I was mistaken the landscape of the Earth had quite a few cities in the Mac II universe After looking at it again it would appear that Spacy headquarters may have been built on the ruins of the submerged city!

Well from a studio point of view it is easy to see how such engagements would be more exciting. Mac Zero was the first time Kawamori really utilized the head guns in a combat situation since that brief instance in Mac Plus.

WOW, how unique, how avante guarde. That's never been done before...

I stand corrected. I mistook the megalopolises as being indicative of the whole planet. Thanks for the screenie for clarification.

If you go to the Kissdum site the fighter designs are definitely Kawamori but they are not variable. In fact they seem to have small cockpit vehicles that drop from the planes themselves for some reason. I think they are referring to developing the CG animation process to make it cost effective and fast enough to keep pace with a weekly tv series. I suspect they get their inspiration from shows like Andromeda and BSG that have a lot of CG effects but manage to produce them effectively in a confined amount of time. No doubt Bandai and BigWest want to be able to put the best possible CG animation on the tube for the resurrection of the franchise, in hopes of recapturing the popularity of SDFM. Not to mention it would put Satelite on the map for being able to produce quality CG on budget and on time (it is entirely possible that Bandai and BigWest hold a stake in the Satelite studio), similar to how ILM did with the Star Wars movies and Weta did with the LOTR movies. Hopefully with Japan and the US having the same region coding (no doubt a purposeful move on Sony's part) they will be able to capitalize on the Western anime market without the annoyances of HG trying to block a US based distributor. Imported DVDs do not fall under the copyright laws that HG wants to hide behind.

I'm talking about the animation process not the story...

Maybe they are doing what Lucas does and improving the process over a few projects so that when it counts it's remarkable.....

Hmmm, I don't remember that. Now I'll have to re-watch that part to find them....

If there was indeed a cloning program, there certainly wasn't much of it or the majority of the population did not live on the war ravaged Earth. This may track if one considers the size of the average Zentreadi cruiser and how many more microns could man such a ship as compared to the giants, since we are given no indication that any giants remain in the Earth's system. I have an old issue of Newtype magazine that features Mac II and has line art showing the landscape of the series. The total population of Earth appeared to be situated in approximately 10 cities on an Eastern coastal area that may or may not be North America. Hardly the same amount of Earth based population as shown in the Nue universe of Mac Plus, which appears to have re-populated the Earth as if no war ever occured..

One of the few, and don't think I'm not jealous... No, they discuss the whole "dominant culture" philosophy if I remember correctly, but no explanations were actually offered at any time (a notable plot hole in the series that I suspect was meant to be filled if the show lasted longer). The only areas where it really doesn't gel with Nue universe (at that time) are FB2012 and the lack of any cloning technology that was present during both the series and the movie. That may have been a creative choice by the producers, nothing is really known about that at the moment. Well by the end of the series we only know of one city fully built the rest appear to be smaller towns, so the reconstruction was only just beginning by the end of the series.. That was a bad idea to be sure and completely not necessary considering the sophistication of the early warning system in the show. The Zentreadi populations appear to be completely micronized and integrated into society by the time of the story, so the populations of giants in the Nue universe do not seem to exist in Mac II universe, until encountered with the Marduk. I always understood the "artifacts" were recreations so as to preserve the history of what once existed, not the actual structures. We've already duked it out over that little dismissive about story structure before and I am not going to re-argue the same points again...

The reality is that Mac II would have to be strongly shoe horned into the Studio Nue universe for that to work. The biggest problems are the landscape of the Earth (the Nue universe has fully rebuilt cities) , the lack of a very large population and the lack of an active emigration program that is clearly evident in the Nue universe. At best the show could be a shoe horned in as a story about a colony world that encounters this unusual fleet, but there is no way it could be the Earth as originally stated in the release of the show and there is no way that the SDF ship could be the Macross, so there is that problem as well. As it exists, the show is not really compatible with the Nue universe unless some basic modifications to the story and even the animation are made. I agree that the story telling is closer to SDFM in tone and spirit, but not with how the Nue universe has developed.

I admited to it once and that was the only time since then all my points about the Nue universe are based on listed items in the chronology. Feel free to try to pick apart those facts I gleened from the Studio Nue chronology. Continuity of what to what? Comparing Mac II's continuity to the Nue continuity naturally results in issues, but that isn't what my discussion is about (keep up!). In Mac II there is no comprehensive history given about the Marduk. How big a stretch is it for the Marduk to possess mind control technology to enslave the Zentreadi? Funny, as I recall the Nue universe uses that very same explanation as how the PD conscripted the SA into doing their bidding. Coincidence, maybe; however I really don't care as I am discussing the "DIFFERENCES" between the two, not justifying one over There is no dispute of that except in your own mind. Their exact origins are not explained, whether that was ultimately intended we don't know. Only the producers know what was ultimately planned for the show before it's demise. Only in your imagination do the Marduk have some sort of claim on the creation of the Zentreadi. It is not revealed how they managed to gain an armada of the giant warriors. Except in Mac Zero we find out how "benevolent" they really were, by leaving a device to wipe an entire world of sentient beings if they "didn't conform to the god culture's vision of what they should evolve into". Nice people, makes their ultimate collapse a bit like poetic justice We see an armada that uses Zentreadi as soldiers, at no point are we told that Marduk control the Zentreadi race as a whole. In the story, 10 years earlier, the Earth repelled a Zentreadi attack in the system. So that invalidates your supposition right there. My contentions are taken directly from the compendium, feel free to look them up yourself. The quotes I posted are cut and paste from the site text. The cloning started a month after the victory over Bodolza, feel free to try and dis-prove the quoted chronology entries. You can try to make constructive comments on the "actual" content of my posts or you can continue on your tirade about how superior your holy grail is within a discussion about the "Differences" between the two shows, thus making yourself look more foolish. Studio Nue chose to use cloning to accelerate the level of advancement in their universe, while Mac II chose to go with a natural re-population of the Earth which in turn had it's lack of advancements comparatively speaking. Both series of events are consistent within their own universes. Neither can really cross over to the other (as some have attested) as they currently exist, due to the basic compatibility issues presented by what was done with the populations after SW1 in each universe.

That's what happens when you try to post from work... Your post on the "specializations" of Kawamori's fighters prompted me to clarify what I meant by specialization of the VF-2 series of Mac II. Essentially being that of atmospheric and space opitimzed fighters, not in the sense of "attack craft" or "interceptor craft". The only specialized fighter shown in the show was the "Metal Siren". The AGA-1JF seemd to be more of a gunship rather than a variable fighter.

If we were considered such a viable market by the lurkers wouldn't Macross Zero have had English subtitles? MW has been around since 1999.... I am never one to leave anything to chance, I think we need to find a way to let Big West know that subtitled Blueray discs of Macross productions will be purchased by Western fans...

YES, a high res version would be sweet!

OMFG! You must be treker with all this hair splitting! OK both armies sat on their a$$es for 3 months to wait out the year... "Thats not supported by the Compedium" . This I concede as I did not consult the holy writ before making my statement. What? Who are you arguing with now? In response to your question with question: "How did the PD control them? That may be the answer to the question you pose. "2010 April Establishment of new U.N. Government [new Unity Government]. Education programs for Zentradi begin. Miclone processing of Zentradi applicants begins. May Macross City reconstruction begins. [Macross City reconstruction completed.] Mass cloning of people as well as animals and plants through the use of Protoculture technology begins. Start of nature reclaimation project. Earth ecosystem rehabilitation begins" Within 2 months of the end of SW1 the mass cloning begins and within 2 years they have enough micronized population and clones to launch what over a 100,000 people into space on Megaroad 1? That is a lot of people to spare for one ship! "2011 September Drafting of Humankind emigration project begins. Both: 1. super-long-distance colonization by means of specially-designed large colonization ships (for the chief purpose of preserving the species) and 2. close-range colonization implemented by converting old-style transport ships (to counteract Earth's population explosion and shortage of resources) are undertaken in parallel." Now if in one year they are projecting population growth to merit the above program after only 1 year of the cloning and micronization, one gets a sense of the scale of re-population going on and how more population focused on the government's goals tend to get more accomplished. Such accomplishments in the Nue universe is very plausible with that many people working on the available projects, be it defence, emigration, infrastructure, etc... 70 years equates to approximately 3 generations, no mass cloning, so not much could be accompished if the total population of the system only tripled in 70 years. Actually it does... True, but what is the focus of their efforts? Rebuilding destroyed infrastructure so the remaining populations could survive as well as rescue missions to recover those who were not lucky enough to live on a Zentreadi ship or the Macross... That in itself could take an entire generation to accomplish. To gain more technical experts requires education and training, which takes more time. A Zentreadi with rudimentary knowlege of advanced equipment doesn't equate to an educated engineer or scientist. Strong back they had aplenty, strong minds were in premium demand. The Nue version is well thought out and consistent for the back stories of the later series, however Mac II is consistent as well, it simply took a different approach to what happens on post war Earth. Whether one is better than the other is a matter of personal opinion.

Actually it was PC2871 when the inhibitors were removed and a year later 85% of life in the Stellar Republic is lost. By PC2875 the PC are unable to reinstitute the inhibitors (why try if they are not in danger?) By PC5000 the Stellar Republic is essentially a broken entity. Now there are no direct references as to whether the remaining PC were wiped out as collateral casualties of war or actively hunted by either side. Either possibilities are plausible.. The initial 85% can be attributed to casualties of war, but that is where the references end. My point was to compare the differences not defend either vision. Essentially I equated the sudden mass of new population with the accelerated growth of the Studio Nue universe. The Mac II universe appears to have the Earth initially concentrate on rebuilding a society rather than accelerating a military build up and sending out emigration fleets. The factory satellite apparently wasn't retooled for a few decades which might explain one of the reasons why the Zent capital ships tended to outnumber the human ships. It also tends to explain the slower development of new variable fighter designs... It appears to me that the chief difference between the two, is the initial mass cloning in the Nue universe. A sudden restoration of a large percentage of the population definitely solves quite a few issues in a post apocalyptic world... Something that wasn't even hinted at in SDFM.

Um WOW!!!

Good point, however I suspect we are exhausting the topic already.

Yes it's just a matter of letting the powers that be know that we'd like an English language subtitle track and are willing to pay for it...

The demise of the PC was the result of them removing the inhibition against attacking microns, in the giants because the SA were composed of both PC and Zentreadi under PD mind control. With that inhibitor removed the giants eventually turned on their masters and the result was the near extinction of the PC. As for the fighters I should have been clearer in that they had specialized atmospheric and space fighter craft. Thus the fighters were optimized for their specific theater of combat. There weren't nearly as many versions as in the 35 years of the Studio Nue universe approximately 11 fighters of the VF series alone (not including the VF-0) mentioned in either production, games or in the chronology, that's one every 3 years. This doesn't include any of the VA, VB and FZ series out and about in the universe.