SpacyAce2012

Actually, I wasn't ragging on the F-35 Lightning. In fact, it promises to be a decent warplane. I was agreeing on the fact that it is the product of compromises. It's going to be considering that it's being developed with all of the Services in mind (well, excluding the Army and Coast Guard), as well as a foreign service (Royal Navy). Then, there is the politics to take into account as well. Then the F-35 should do well in air-to-air combat, since the F-16 has long been regarded as a good "knife fighter". And the Hornet doesn't do too bad in excercises. In fact, it's been alledged that the older F/A-18C is superior to the F/A-18E Super Hornet in a "knife fight". (in addition to having better range, much to the Navy's embarrassment). It should be noted that the majority of entities that deploy the F-16 (including the Air National Guard), utilize the type for air defense.

Pretty much on the money regarding the F-35. The last part is debatable, however. And merely the opinion of so-called "experts". The same ilk that was responsible for such gems as the Defense White Paper and "guns are no longer needed on fighters since dogfighting is dead". Those kind of "experts". A dedicated trainer would only be cheaper if designed with that in mind. And while a dedicated conventional trainer would be cheaper in terms of up front/production costs, I doubt in the case of VFs it would be that simple. Variable Fighters were a new technology altogether, during this stage in the saga. Maintinence costs would probably be high. Therefore, long term costs would be lower due to parts commonality with existing transforming craft. And parts have a better chance of being readily available in certain circumstances (such as the deep s**t the Macross found itself in after the flubbed space fold). The military establishment in Macross was still highstrung, considering The Fall, the U.N. Wars, the social upheaval, and the very real possiblity of extraterrestial invasion. The Brass and the U.N. Bigwigs wanted things that could shoot,first and foremost, considering the rapid arms build-up between 2000 and 2010. Developing a dedicated VF trainer wouldn't be high on the list of priorities, considering such a mindset. So, you take the quickie route. You modify an existing fighter design to meet the need. Not a lot of time/money spent on R and D, component commonality with operational fighters in case of production disruption, and (even better in the minds of the "more weapons!" xenophobes) it can be deployed in combat roles if needed. Not to say that it would be best used in that way. Judging by it's head unit, it probably lacks the full suite of sensors, etc. to be as effective as units slated for regular combat duties. But it's there if needed (such as for weapons training or in emergencies). Please note that I'm looking at it from a "in-universe" point of view. From a real life POV, I would agree (somewhat) with Skull-1 (in regards to conventional military training aircraft). But ultra-tech transforming sci-fi military fighters are a different ballgame. And I also take the politics, xenophobia, and military situation that existed at that point in the story into account as well. As far as building the fighter before the trainer making no sense, the Soviets had a habit of it. Combat types were generally deployed before the operational trainers (of the type) were. While seemingly silly, it didn't affect the Soviet Air Force too much, considering the Czech built basic trainers they used. Just my two cents worth.

It would've been funny if that's what he had in his pipe, before his big debrief with U.N. Forces High Command. The mental image of the stately Global, talking like that surfer dude from "Fast Times at Ridgemont High", is just too hilarious. Indeed. And my response wasn't intended to slam later VFs (such as the VF-22), or Kawamori's designs in general (just making a joke ). The Metal Siren is a unique and original design. Not to mention it's someone else's creative effort and hard work. If anyone should redesign it, it should be the original artist. Not Kawamori. But personally, I think it's okay as is. It's nice to have one kick-ass, uber-VF (even in a "alternate" Macross timeline) that doesn't remind me of a Zentreadi mecha. While these Zent-like VFs look cool (the VF-22 is awesome), I wouldn't want it to become a common theme in future Macross series. Or become dominate in future Macross designs. While I agree with Keith that Macross shouldn't become another Gundam franchise, I disagree with his (and s001's) view that "new blood" would turn it into such. Or that "new blood" would ruin the Macross Universe. In fact, new talent that is allowed to explore new avenues outside of Kawamori's "vision", is maybe just what the franchise needs. Macross still holds endless possiblities in terms of stories, themes, and characters. To let it die just because Kawamori gets sick of it, or runs out of good ideas, is pure folly. The Star Trek franchise ran strong for a long time without the "Great Bird of the Galaxy" having a chokehold on things. In fact, it can be argued that the quality of the series actually became better, without Rodenberry doing much beyond "advising". And it ran strong after his death. Robert E. Howard is another good example. His characters and worlds he created enjoyed a world-wide revival in the 1970's. King Kull, Conan, Comac Mac Art, etc, did quiet well under the pens of others. In fact, the writing style of these other authors, were much better than Howard's. And their stories didn't bucther the genre. In fact, they kept with the "raw bones" of the fantasy world that Howard envisioned. So, no. I don't believe that Kawamori alone makes Macross. Or he alone is necessary for the continuation of the franchise. Just because the one series that he had nothing to do with didn't do too hot, doesn't mean that it's holy writ that Macross minus Kawamori equals disaster. Also, for the record, I don't advocate giving him the boot. But I feel he should take more of an advisor role, and have final say in new concepts proposed for Macross, rather than taking too much of a hands-on approach in every future Macross series. Just my two cents worth.

For the most part, I would agree with you. The few stories I have found on the Net weren't that great. But I have written some myself (in my well-worn notebook) set in the U.N. Wars era. Friends/relatives, that have read it, think it's pretty good stuff. I don't critique my own stories, since it's mainly for personal enjoyment. But the "reviews" (for want of a better term) have encouraged me to start yet another story. It's titled "Brother Against Brother".

A Kawamori redesign of the Metal Siren is one thing I don't want to see. It looks evil enough as is without looking like something General Galaxy cooked up (i.e. Zentreadi-like). Of course, Kawamori may not go that route. He may redesign it to carry a Bong Cannon that shoots love beads, and painted in psychedelic colors. It'll also have a secret weapon called the "Peace Beam Cannon". When used, it makes the enemy want to surrender, start communes, and smoke lots of dope. Oh, and it will get a name change. The new name will be the "Metal Sit-In".

Know of any websites where there is good Macross fanfiction?

Sorry for the thread necromancy. But I was reading this topic and wanted to add my two cents. I tend to agree with those that believe that the Zents weren't completely ignorant of technical issues. What makes me think along these lines are the three Zentraedi infiltrators. In one episode, they were obviously prepping their modified Regult for the return trip to the fleet. If I remember right, they were using tools to do the job. And the fact that they were covered in grime reminded me of mechanics after spending time on a job. While I don't believe that they were true engineers, they did understand basic equipment maintanence/repair. Just like troops in any military organization. Just my two cents worth.

I didn't see such a prohibition in the Forum Rules. So, why would the Moderators lock it if it remains civilized?

Hmmm......... And the suspense builds up............

A new series would be good. You won't see me complaining. As for these boards, it's nice to have a place where fans can interact. A heartfelt thanks to the folks who made it happen.

That is just so wrong. On many levels. But still funny.

In a word, Avast! antivirus. The Home Edition is free and is automatically updated.

And so it begins............... *cues dramatic music* The truth of the matter is that I enjoy both series. Neither one of them sucks. And that is a matter of my opinion of course. Others will differ. And of course, we wouldn't have Thread Necromancy if the Mods didn't lock threads because a similar topic was started in the distant past.

So, would I be wrong in assuming (judging from the artwork Graham posted and opening sequences of M+) that this weapon uses a detachable drum magazine?

An excellent post, Mr. March. I, personally, had no problem with exploring mysticism or spiritism in M7/M0. However, I agree that enough is enough. It's time to move on and tackle other themes in Macross. Which is also the point behind my opinion regarding love triangles. Rehashing and reusing the same themes with every new addition to Macross. Which, judging from some of the posts on this thread, is what some hard-core fans want. To be more specific, "retreads" of the SDF Macross plotline or constant reuse of major plot/story elements from that particular series. That tends to lead to stagnation. And it can cause fans to lose interest just as easily as the use of hokey concepts/story elements. One of the strong points of Macross Plus (to name an example) for me was the fact that a new backdrop was used. Instead of a major war in space against impossible odds, we have test pilots involved in an intense competition for a government fighter contract. You have politics, behind the scenes dealings, murder, intrigue, and cover-ups. Toss in three very dysfunctional main characters, with major emotional baggage, and you have a recipe for excitement. While some of the old themes were there (love triangle, female musician involved in said triangle, etc), the overall story was different enough to draw me in and keep my interest. If it had been a slightly re-written SDF Macross/DYRL/MII, I would have watched it once and said "ho-hum. It was okay, but typical of the series so far". And the tape would have sat on my shelf, collecting dust. This is the reason behind my enjoyment of that particular series. It has nothing to do with this concept of "mecha porn" that some keep bringing up. I can fully get behind the idea of getting back on the "real robot" track in regards to Macross. But as Macross Plus has demonstrated, new ideas can be safely tried within the scope of the genre. You don't necessarily need to revisit the "space opera" concept or constantly use the same romantic themes over and over again (to name a couple of examples). Just because something was in the original series doesn't mean it is etched in stone. But when talking with friends, who are Macross fans, about this subject; I get the impression they see me as a species of heretic.

It would help..................

Or Robotech, for that matter. The main problem I have with Palladium isn't with their gaming system or game mechanics. In fact, it's a fast paced system that doesn't require accounting/bookeeping skills to play/run. It the crappy backgrounds, the concepts that invite rampant munchkinism, and the poor research put into their anime related games/weapons suppliments (real world weaponry, that is). Plus, they try to do too much in one game setting. Just look at Rifts to see what I mean. But that's just my humble opinion. Hopefully, the planned Robotech game will stick with Shadow Chronicles and not recycle the crap they shoveled to their fans (which I really don't consider myself as) in the past. But that will happen anyway, I suspect.

I heard about this. Not suprising, since I live less than an hour away from where it happened. There generally is more to the story than the media reports. But we won't hear anything until the investigation is completed. Just another example of stupidity over a damn game console. I love gaming too, but all of this nonsense is just ridiculous.

Well, Macross 7 Dynamite didn't have war or the military as a backdrop. The Zolanite forces were essentially cops/customs agents/game wardens (we call 'em "Possum Sheriffs" around these parts). The bad guys were poachers, not some invading military force. The only real military elements in that series were Gamlin, and the stolen United Nations gear in the gun runner's inventory.

I'm not against love stories in Macross,per se. In fact, every epic/heroic adventure story needs one as a plot element (the level that it influences the story should vary for the sake of a little variety). My point is on how the love story is handled. In every series, the love story exists in the form of a love triangle. What's wrong with a simple old fashioned "boy meets girl" story? What's wrong with watching the relationship grow just between those two characters? To see how such a relationship develops when influenced by events taking place in the story? The conflicts? The ups and downs before resolution? Or maybe that love get tragically cut short by death, making for a good tear-jerker (just the thing to draw in more hopeless romantics into the fanbase ). An effective love story doesn't always have to involve a three way (no pun intended ) conflict between love interests. I see nothing wrong with love triangles, it's just that they are overdone. It's time from something a little different on the romance side of things. Kawamori and Crew always do something a little different with each new series. Why not with the classic love story? One very easy way is to let the one-on-one relationship take center stage for a change, instead of being shoved into the background.

Quote from Keith: I agree with this. In fact, I came to a similar conclusion when I first watched the series back in the '90s. Quote from Macross73: I found the setting of Macross Plus to be a refreshing change of pace, myself. A military sponsored competition, between two corporations for a big government contract, was interesting in itself. Toss in an illegal AI experiment, some disfunctional characters, and watch all hell break loose.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. That's what I meant to get across. I went back and edited the post for clarity.

I'm merely curious as to what others think on this matter. So sound off! There has pretty much been one in every series put out so far. To summarize: 1-Macross Zero. Shin Kudo, Sara Nome, Mao Nome. Granted. The triangle wasn't as obvious. But it was there. Sorta tragic how it was sorted out in the end, but a beautiful ending all together. 2-SDF Macross/DYRL. Mr. Hikaru "I'm a Dumb Ass" Ichijyo, Misa Hayase, and Lynn "All About Me" Minmay. The most famous in Macross history. Pretty much solved by the time Flashback 2012 rolled around, with no lingering bad blood between Misa and Minmay......strange. At least Ichijyo finally grew up and went with better girl. 3- Macross Plus. Isamu Dyson, Guld Bowman, Myung Lone. Another tragic ending for a love triangle. But far more heroic in nature. Sometimes the price of redemption is the ultimate price. 4-Macross 7/M7 Dynamite. Mylene Jenius, Basara Nekki, Gamlin Kizaki. This was one that was never resolved, much to my disatisfaction. Pity too. All of that air time dealing with it and Gamlin didn't get the girl.That sucks. Of course, the Movie didn't touch on it. Only thing it did was reinforce the fact that giant chicks, with giant boobs, dig Basara. And that Pedro was the luckiest kid in the Macross universe. 5-Macross II. Hibiki Kanzaki, Silvie Geena, Ishtar. Strange way of dealing with this love triangle. There is obvious attraction between Kanzaki and Geena in one scene at the beginning of the series (the confrontation in Culture Park between the two). But it seems to manifest itself as rivalry. And of course, Ishtar comes into the picture. Over time, both begin to respect each other and see different sides to each other's personalities. Then, that latent attraction just abruptly comes out on the bridge of the Macross, much to Ishtar's dismay. Kinda felt sorry for the girl. Then again, maybe not. Kanzaki-sama went from being Jerry Springer to Basara Nekki over the course of the series. Just without the fist-fights (not counting Silvie knocking him on his ass) and rock music. It's also interesting to note that in the best known Macross Manga, M7 Thrash, that there seems to be one. I haven't read the entire thing, so I don't know the details. So it would seem that this is an "essential" formula for a Macross production, considering you see it all of the time. Any one-on-one love interests that exist in a particular story seems to get shoved into the background. Examples would be Roy Focker's relationships, Max and Millia's rocky marriage, D.D. Ivanov and Nora Polyansky, and the story behind Ray and Akkiko's relationship. So, for a change, I would like to see the love triangle plot element left out of the next Macross production. Not to say that there is anything wrong with them. But.....come on. One in every series? It tends to get old, in my opinion. What's wrong with exploring budding love between just two characters, as a major plot element, for a change? So folks, what's your opinions on this subject?

Kawamori is certainly one of the more talented ones in the anime world. However, I don't much care for his work outside of Macross. That doesn't mean I think his other works completely suck. They just don't strike my fancy, so to speak. The VF-1, in my eyes, was his crowning achievement.

A variation of the VF-4 appeared in a video game long before Digital Mission VF-X. Macross: Eternal Love Song (or something like that; a sequel to the Macross 2036 game). Kawamori declared it non-canon. I believe it was dubbed the "Siren".