SpacyAce2012

I laughed my ass off at that.

I thought Mylene was working toward a solo career. Oh, and a quick favor, Keith. Could you look at my avatar and tell me what you see. Is it still Silvie Geena in the flightsuit, or Max and Millia's VF-22s?

Well, after my last post on this board, I followed the advice given and cleaned out my cache. And the problems I'm having with changing my avatar on these boards continues. I normally use Mozilla Firefox, and I have no trouble changing avatars on other boards. Even before I cleaned out my cache, I had no problems on other forums doing this. Only here and on Macross Nexus. Then, I tried an experiment. I used my Internet Explorer to log on and change it. Eureka! It worked! But now, it get's weird. When I use Firefox to log on, it shows my old avatar! Just resized to the same dimensions of my new one showing up on IE! Any ideas as to why this is happening? Solutions? I remember JBO mentioning some sort of bug that may be the cause of it.

Not to mention the scores of Red Shirts........errr, I meant Thunderbolt pilots killed in action.

Gubaba kicks ass.

Make that a thousand. Thanks for the heads-up. I went back and edited it.

Me an apologists? That's a new one on me. You're the first person to ever associate me with that label. History has been made. Even the younger Max was an easy going, fun loving, girl chaser. He was modest (but sometimes got a fat head when someone called him a genius). A perfect gentleman with the ladies. And judging by his arguement with Hikaru over his proposed marriage to an enemy alien, he demonstrated that he was a hopeless romantic. Max was the first one to begin taking out enemy mecha, without killing the pilots. All at the pleadings of his new bride. All of these things listed would make Max seem like highly skilled dandy, similar to the military gentry of ages past. So, Max had always been something "nice guy" character. But does that mean he never had balls? Or lost them at some point? Being a leader means being more than just assertive. Different leaders have different styles of leadership. Max's style seems to work well on Battle 7. The troops respect him. And people seem to follow his orders without much grumbling. And the troops that went on Operation Stargazer, appeared to follow him without reservation. A sign of respect for a legendary man who earned it. As for having balls in M7, lets look at some examples: 1-He was prepared to kill his own daughter, his most elite pilot, and the rest of Sound Force with a reaction weapon, if Mylene's gamble to save Gamlin had failed. 2- He personally took charge of Operation Stargazer, knowing it was a suicide mission 3- During Stargazer, in feat of pure ballsyness, he defolded into the middle of a firefight, blazed through the Varauta's automated defenses, to deliver the "egg" (reaction weapon) to the target. When it was evident that he wouldn't escape, he ordered the others away to safety. That's what I call guts, being a leader, and a hero. 4- He ordered Battle 7 to ram a Varauta ship in a vain attempt to stop the enemy fold operation from stealing away with City 7. That demonstrates decisive leadership on his part, able to make snap judgements and quickly act on them. 5- He refused to abandon City 7 as it was falling into that star, even if it meant the destruction of Battle 7. 6- At the end of the series, he took the fight to the enemy's doorstep. 7-He still doesn't shy away from a fight. Yep. While still being something of a skilled dandy and nice guy character, Max has proven he still has something in his sac. Why be an apologists, when there is nothing to apologize for? The facts speak for themselves.

That I couldn't tell you. Kawamori left it unresolved. It's almost like watching a cliff-hanger, only to find out that the next part won't ever be shown. Will the villian triump? How will the hero get out of his predicament and save the girl? No one will ever know. I equate the M7 love triangle with an unresolved cliff-hanger. And in either case, it annoys me not to know the answer. You would think that Gamlin would have to report back in sooner or later. Plus, Mylene has gigs to perform. And it looks as though they'll be chasing that numb-nut brooding rebel across the cosmos.

DYRL was written into the official continuity as a motion picture drama set in the Space War One era. In the timeline, it was responsible for the newfound explosion in popularity of Lynn Minmay's music (in the 2030s/40s). Some major characters in Macross were moved by the "movie" and inspired to acheive what Minmay did. Basara Nekki and Emilia Jenius would be two examples. I know that in Real Life, the movie was released in 1984.

Indeed. Watching the original series, it seems that the Zentraedi had the Supervision Army on the defensive (on the run), as of 2009 (Earth Calander). In fact, the Vrlitwhai Fleet was on a recon mission to investigate probable SA activity in Earth's general area of the galaxy, which was thought to have been mopped up decades prior. But judging by what was pointed out in the series, they were still far from total defeat. They were still a very real threat. Not flourishing by any means (the Zents were in the same boat). But far from being on the edge of extinction. As for the Marduk having little in common with the SA, there really isn't enough info on the Supervision Army to say with 100% certainty. But there are enough commonalities (with what is known about the SA) where such a theory cannot be completely dismissed. A twisted evolution of a portion of the SA, perhaps. There is no telling what could've happened, without the control of the Protodevlin, over the centuries. Independent "sub-factions", within the Supervision Army, would make for good plot material in future stories. However, I personally feel that they were a twisted remnant of another faction within the Protoculture. But I feel that there would be room for more exploration of a SA story angle. I agree that the Supervision Army would do their damnedest to keep the Zentraedi military from discovering Varauta. Discovering the means to revive them could turn the war around in their favor. Allowing their ancient enemies to discover this "ace in the hole" would be a major strategic disaster. But knowing the Zentraedi philosophy of "superior firepower solves everything", such an attack may very well have revived the Protodevlin by accident. With song being feared by the Zents as "Protoculture contamination", and the secrets of Anima Spiritia lost in the mists of time, Zentraedi defeat would almost be certain.

I'm guessing sometime in the 2020's was when the VT-1 was first introduced. In the canon timeline, the movie DYRL was "made and released" in the 2030's. In all likelyhood, such a project would have been done with the military's cooperation (just as in RL movie productions). So, I can see a studio getting a military trainer to shoot those scenes. This indicated that the VT-1 existed in the '30s at least, and may be fairly common in U.N. training squadrons. If the VT-1 was introduced in the '20s, then it wouldn't be such a big deal to convert some VF-1 airframes to a training variant. The Valkyrie was being rotated out of front-line service, and replaced by the Lightning III. It would be similar to the U.S. Armed Forces using dated combat aircraft converted for other roles. Such examples in history would include the RF-101,RA-5,KA-6,RB-47,EB-66, etc.

In a word, no. Most anime that made it to American television was edited and "dumbed" down for a younger audience. Animation is/was generally considered a medium for kids. The few Western animated movies/shows aimed at older audiences, while considered "cult classics" (and have a following), generally didn't last long on air (or didn't do well at the box office). "The Simpsons" is considered to be the first major success of animation aimed at older viewers. And even that had a stronger fanbase among the younger crowd. Having watched it myself as a kid in the mid-70's, and knowing many Baby Boomers who watched it in the 1960's, I can safely say that you are right on the money. I can't say for sure, never having watched the Japanese original. But considering the nature of censorship rules for American television in those days, I believe that it could be safely assumed that some degree of editing did occur. And the complimentary "dumbing" down if the original dealt with heavy topics. Robotech was a syndicated program, which means it's not as vulnerable to ratings as the Network-aired shows. A good example of this would be Star Trek: The Next Generation. It basically sucked in the first two seasons and didn't get good reviews. If it had been a Network program, it would have been cut fairly quick. But syndication allowed it to survive long enough to develop into a good show (by Season Three). One of the things that hurt Robotech was the violence. Back in the 1980's, there was a backlash against violence in children's television programming. I remember the heavily edited old Warner Brothers cartoons (with the more violent scenes cut out for fear that children would emulate them). And by the late 80's, the only place where you could see the original 1960's Johnny Quest, on a semi-regular basis, was on cable televison (or, more rarely, on local stations late at night). While the violence in Robotech was toned down from what was shown in Macross, it was still a bit more than typical in contemporary American televison animation. As for being complex or controversial, I don't see it that way. It was too dumbed down to be taken in a serious light by older audiences. And the more mature themes evident in the original Macross were edited out for American television. Examples would be the toning down of the genocide angle (in the results of Bodolzaa's actions), and the removal of the cloning element in the post-Space War era. Of course, it could have dissappeared from televison because of it's commercial failings. But don't see where ratings would have a big impact on such. No, I don't believe so. The only thing Robotech was credited for was the creation of the so-called "Second Wave" of anime fandom. Not for the creation of anime fandom in general. As for the general public (those not being serious fans), there hasn't been much change in the perceptions of anime. It's still considered a "bunch of cartoons for people who haven't grown up". If anything has changed, it was the over-focus on the more disturbing elements of anime by the public (by non-fans in the know, that is). As for anime fandom itself, it goes beyond the issue of Robotech. There was no need for an "end run" around HG or RT. The exposure to other series had just as much (if not more impact) on growing anime fandom, as Robotech. Or previous "Americanized" anime shows, for that matter. While "underground" fansubbers had a great deal to do with getting anime to the States, there were other ways that I wouldn't exactly label as being "underground" in nature. Military brats/personnel, people with relatives in Japan, etc. were also a factor. In fact, I was exposed to Macross long before I even seen Robotech. And it was through people who had been overseas. The fanbase built up enough by these means that a potential market was perceived and it went from there. Of course, it helped matters that some of the big movers in the American anime marketplace were fans themselves (Carl Macek, the founders of Right Stuf International,etc.). On a side note, in the case of mecha anime, model kit hobbyists also had a larger influence than most would give them credit for. Harmony Gold, does indeed, take too much credit. They (and the hardcore Robotechies) overstate Robotech's influence on the rise of anime fandom in the United States. It was dedicated anime fans who did the most to make it happen, IMO.

Yes. At the end of M7 Dynamite.

A married man has to master the art of compromise. And learn to give in once and a while. Gotta keep the Ol' Lady happy, ya know. It can work wonders for a man's sanity. As for Little Miss Mylene, it is a similar situation with many teenaged daughters in Real Life. They are "Daddy's Girl". And those same teenaged girls will play this up for all that's it's worth, if they have an "agenda" (want something). Considering that even the "tough guys" (who have young daughters) are suceptable to such, I don't percieve it as any sort of wimpiness on Max's part. Regarding the split, this was a similar impression I got from the series, as well. But I always theorized that allegations of an affair had something to do with it, in addition to the other problems. It was rumored in M7 Thrash that Max had a son from another woman at some point (Shiba Midou). But since I haven't read the entire manga, I don't know the actual truth behind it or the details regarding that plot element. Being tempermental as she is, I could see Millia flying off the handle if those rumors reached her ears. Her and Max were supposedly already having problems over the years. Something like this would only make things worse for any couple in a shaky marriage.

Here is the relevent link to the Compendium: Macross Compendium The entries for the years PC 2865,2868,and 2871 gives the details Or at least one (possible) remaining element of it. The Babylonian deity names (and Sumerian mythological terms) could be explained away as being Protoculture terms (from their language) that were "imprinted" on the "racial memory" of Humanity. Around the time of the Protocultures' activities on Earth, Humans were already fairly well evolved (Java Man, Peking Man, Homo Erectus(sp),etc. I don't remember which exact stages existed 500,000 years ago). However, The Protoculture Intervention Theory (judging from Professor Turner's comments in Macross Zero), implied that Humanity's evolution accelerated at some point from then. That's recent enough for some sort of "racial memory" theory to have at least a little validity. I always figured that Ingues was a bio-computer similar to Gorg Bodolzaa/ Lap'lamis Moruk (as portrayed in DYRL). At so me point over 500 centuries, he became insane and began to think of himself as a god emperor. There was limitless potential to explore in this future Macross setting, in regards to the Protoculture (the Marduk angle). But Kawamori has fixed it where it will never happen. As for the head unit being removed, it was possibly for the same reason you remove a car battery, when storing an automobile for a long period of time. The head was probably part of the power system (as well as a computer "hard drive/memory" unit, for want of a better term). I know it's far-fetched. But just one of many possibilities.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for a new project then.

Quote from Keith: I don't completely dismiss such a possibility. In fact, before I learned that Kawamori declared Macross II non-canon, my Macross roleplaying group used to speculate that the Marduk were remnants of the Protoculture. Or the decendants of one of the militant factions opposed to the Republic. It would explain the similarities to Zentraedi equipment and other Protoculture technologies. And their use of music as a weapon/means of control. Quote from JBO: That is pretty much my thoughts on the reason behind such efforts, as well. But as the AFOS may demonstrate, the scientists behind these projects may have had a different agenda than the Stellar Republic's government. A covert agenda. If so, then such opposition would indicate that the Republic wasn't so "enlightened", after all. And the so-called "militant factions" were actually freedom fighters of a sort. But then again, the AFOS may have been a "safety mechanism". After all, an advanced pacifistic species would be more easily cowed into slavery than an advanced war-like species. But I don't see how it would accomplish such a task single-handedly. As demonstrated in Macross Zero, it wasn't exactly invincible. Just a little speculation on possibilities in the background story. But knowing Kawamori's style, the Protoculture will end up being New Age-style beings who realized their mistakes, achieved Budda-like enlightenment, and ascended to a higher plane of existence. And are guiding their former "experiments" to the "right path" in subtle ways. Quote from Zinjo: Indeed. But as the civil conflicts in the Republic demonstrated, there is a possibility that not all of the Protocultures followed this line of thinking.

Actually, I was referring to the incident where the "super-dimension organs" (used to tap into the energy of the "sub-universe") failed. Thus, allowing the energy based lifeforms of that universe to enter our own, and "possessing" the Evil Series bio-weapons (becoming what would be known as the Protodevlin). The planet where this took place (which was the Protodevlin's/Supervison Army's home/base world,as well) was the same planet where they were imprisioned: Varauta. Thanks for the compliment. I try to present my points in an informed and rational manner. The hallmarks of a good, intelligent discussion. I would consider it disrespectful to my fellow Macross fans on these boards if I didn't. But that doesn't mean I can't get mean in a flame war with hostile Robotechies.

To be honest, the Robosuck Minmay music sucked complete ass. Even the worst Macross soundtracks are superior in my opinion. The Robosuck tracks do strange things to people. I have this theory that some Roblowtech fan was blaring "Stage Fright" full blast, while riding past the Branch Dravidian Complex, back in '93. By some strange coincidence, it was at that moment that the BATF was riding up. Hearing that horrible song, both the agents and Davidians (for reasons even they can't explain to this day) went temporarily insane and started shooting all over the place. The Geneva Conventions were amended to ban playing Roboblech songs on the battlefield. And Congress has forbidden the use of them for interrogation purposes, by the CIA, in the War on Terror. They are deemed that cruel to the listener. And the CIA agrees with this assessment. Plus, the agreement not use RoboMinmay music in harassment attacks on one another, is one deal that neither Israel ,nor their opponents, have ever broken. Sorry. I couldn't resist.

I voted for Gamlin K. Reasons for my vote? 1- Gamlin is the closest thing to the "clean-cut hero" type seen in Macross. 2- Gamlin has actual feelings of love for Mylene Flare Jenius. At best, Basara Nekki sees her as a kid sister, kindred spirit, and/or an apprentice. At worst, a close friend and fellow musician. 3- Gamlin is stable and responsible. 4- Gamlin is loyal and has a great deal of courage. He is a down-to-earth kind of guy. Modest and honest to a fault. Honorable in the extreme. 5- Gamlin is willing to risk his own life to protect his friends,comrades, and (above all) the girl he loves. Gamlin matured as a character over the course of the series. His relationship with Mylene has also made him less of a "stuffed shirt". He loosens up a great deal by the end of the show. He also becomes more open minded,as well. His instincts as a leader and this new found open mindedness allows him to see the validity (and value) in what Basara was attempting to do. Also, Basara is searching for something. He's too much of a wanderer and free spirit to ever settle down. Mylene would be better off with someone who won't just pick up and wander off on a whim. I believed that Mylene loved Gamlin in M7. The problem was her teenage crush on Basara.

When I see the numerous references to Max Jenius losing his "manliness" in M7, I just laugh. The character of Max is simply being portrayed in a realistic light. It's called "getting older" and "laid back". I find it refreshing that he's isn't protrayed as the same 16 year old hotshot girl chaser in SDFM. He's still the top Ace in the U.N. military (his flying in Operation Stargazer proved that). But the character has matured into a leader who has to look at the "big picture", a concerned father, and (hopefully once again) a good husband. He's now a "fifty-something" in charge of an entire fleet, with numerous civilians and military personnel counting on him. A huge responsibility. Not the kind of job you give someone with the mentality of a young hotdog fighter pilot. But that's just my opinion. Others will differ.

I'm guessing that it was long before the 2040's. Elma's mother and father had Human names, which would indicate a popular trend for such (Humans,in all likelyhood, would have been a facinating novelty to the Zolans). And they were already adults some time before M7 Dynamite. While I agree that the Zolans weren't a space-faring race until contact with Earth,I don't believe they were completely dependent on outside sources for all of their technical knowledge. I got the impression that they were quiet advanced in sea-faring, which would require some sort of industry and scientific development (ship-building, navigation, mathmatics, astronomy, metallergy, etc). Unlike the people of Mayan, who were largely a group of primitives. What industrial technology and modern education the islanders had, were all from outside sources. I have to disagree with the "colony" part. From watching the series, I gathered that Zola seems to operate as a sovereign entity. Their forces (from what little is seen, seems geared toward anti-piracy/poaching ops. A legacy from their maritime heritage) have their own insignia, uniforms,etc. And judging from Laiza's brief coversation with Gamlin at the end, Zola's military/paramilitary entities don't appear to answer to the Earth United Nations military. Of course, I may be wrong. These are only impressions that I get from watching the series. I have seen Zola referenced as being a "colony" in other sources, but it doesn't strike me as being such. Perhaps a "protectorate", "ally", or "member state" might be more appropriate terms. I don't believe that the ancient Protoculture left behind "tests" for the Human Race in particular. According to the canon timeline, Humanity and Earth were a "lost experiment". All records of both were lost in the chaos during the Stellar Republic's last years. And the research vessel/team responsible for the project were destroyed by anti-Republican forces, enroute home. I do believe that you have a point regarding AFOS. During the time of the Protoculture's activities on Earth, civil strife, civil war, insurrections,etc. were the order of the day in the Republic. Perhaps some idealistic scientists, with a great deal of gifted foresight, saw the handwriting on the wall. Even without the Varauta accident (and the resulting rise of the Protodevlin/Supervision Army), the Republic seemed destined for ruin. So, they programmed AFOS for it's task of dealing with Humanity, if they didn't forsake warfare by the time they reached their advanced space-faring period. But as for the old (computer/holographic?) program left behind in the ruins on Rax, and the details regarding the "Galactic Whales"? Doubtful. The automated program was merely responding to the mixed Protoculture DNA "legacy" detected in Mylene's blood, rather than looking for traces of (Earth) Human DNA (in a mixed-race individual) in particular. And while the Zolans themselves were genetically altered in the distant past, I didn't get the impression that the Whales had anything to do with the Protoculture. This something I would like to see. More on the Protoculture, that is. However, contact with any living remenants of their race would require a major change in the timeline regarding them. The Protoculture race is presumed to have been extinct for hundreds of thousands of years, judging from what's written in the canon timeline.

Milia was a trip in M7. It was one of the reasons I enjoyed the show. But the old Milia was still there. Stubborn, aggressive, opinionated, a show boat, and a soft spot when it comes to her fellow Zentraedi. Yep. It's still her all right.

I don't believe that Graham was a Zentraedi. It is my understanding that the Zolanites are a completely different race from Humans and Zentreadi. Judging from a snippet of the radio soap opera that always popped up in the background, I gathered that the Zolans were a race of humanoid marsupials. Also, the ears and arm hair on the males is another indicator. As for Graham being a giant, it might be safely assumed that the Protoculture may have done some tampering here in the distant past. So, it's in the Zolanite genetic makeup. Of course, this is just a logical assumption that a veiwer may gather by watching M7 Dynamite. It's not supported by hard canon.

I still wonder about the big secret that Graham was hinting at. But after reading the thread on this new series called Engage Planet: Kiss Dum (where the hell do they come up with these names?), my hopes of a new series have increasingly dimmed. My thinking now is that it's some big news regarding toys/model kits. Oh, well................