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Did you mean to say Star Trek? Even there the new series aren't re-tellings of the old. If you are talking about the tweaks GL made to the first 3 Star Wars films I woun't really call that a remake. As for BSG I did watch the new series. I liked it for the most part but didn't really go in expecting much and I didn't try to think of it as BSG. If the series gets picked up I'll watch it. There was enough there to hold my attention during the pilot but I see why some wish it had been named something else. As for good SciFi I want more Babylon 5. If you follow JMS's posts it looks like I just might get my wish too. There is susposed to be an "eep" coming soon

I saw a post here that's dated the 22nd that says "I just read that Sci-Fi has ordered six episodes". He doesn't give a source so I'm not sure if its true or not.

Ok... here is my first shot at post processing so go easy on me. I took the shape above and cut the floor in half and added a flat blue background. See insert. As to why I left any of the floor in this picture was I wanted the reflections on the sphere of the grid however note now the left side of the box is missing its reflection. I then cut out the shape, made the blue backgroud transparent (my idea of how blue screen works), and pasted it on top of the same image redered with a complete red sphere covering the black one. Not too bad... I obviously don't know how to get rid of all the blue as I still see a blue outline around my shape and this test highlights some serious problems with a post process solution to this problem. I think if I knew what I was doing or had the right software I should be able to get rid of all the blue but what about the reflections on both the object and the foreground? I think I'll leave my model as it is for now. I really like all the reflections and that's not something they had to deal with origionally. A questions for those of you that have been at this longer then I have: Is there some software out there that will allow me to cut that shape off of the blue background and not only make the 100% blue pixels transparent but make the partially blue pixels at the edge partially transparent so they'll pick up the red of the solid red sphere when I perform the paste? I know the PNG file format allows for layers of partial transparency but the free software (ImageForge) that I downloaded doesn't support that feature or I can't figure out how to use it as the documentation isn't all that user friendly. Thanks, Carl

Hey... I was in High School back in the mid-80's. 1983 to 1987 to be exact so PLEASE don't call yourself old. My wife says I'm in denial. I can remember back when my High School offered its first ever computer course. They gave the job to the teacher that had taught typing for the past 20 years and I assume a computer back then was thought of as nothing more the a complicated typewriter. I however had taken a computer camp the summer before and learned some basic and forth (there is a langue I haven't heard of since). Long story short I ended up teaching the teacher as she knew nothing more about computer then most of her students. Those were the days... That course was on Apple II computers and I had a list of fun peek and poke commands as I recall that I used to play mind games with the other students. My first computer was a Sanyo 555. Anyone remember those? On to POV-Ray... I don't believe the primitives in POV-Ray have an underlying polygon mesh. And even if they did you wouldn't want to see all the lines that made it up. Hmmm... I'm having a hard time visualizing this I think. If the sphere has a red interior and you make it bigger and turn it inside out you wouldn't see any of the smaller black sphere. Let me tell you what I've done. No... its easier to show you... Lets say I want to outline the shape formed by the union of this box and sphere: box {<-50,20,-75>,<100,150,75> texture {clear_black}} sphere {<100, 120, -85>,75 texture {clear_black}} I pick the size of the red frame I want it to have. In this case 10. And I add spheres with that radius to all the corners of the box: sphere{<-50,20,-75> 10 texture {red_frame}} sphere{<-50,20,75> 10 texture {red_frame}} sphere{<-50,150,-75> 10 texture {red_frame}} sphere{<-50,150,75> 10 texture {red_frame}} sphere{<100,20,-75> 10 texture {red_frame}} sphere{<100,20,75> 10 texture {red_frame}} sphere{<100,150,-75> 10 texture {red_frame}} sphere{<100,150,75> 10 texture {red_frame}} I then add cylinders to all the edges of the box with the same radius: cone {<-50,20,-75>,10 <-50,20,75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} cone {<-50,20,-75>,10 <-50,150,-75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} cone {<-50,20,-75>,10 <100,20,-75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} cone {<-50,150,75>,10 <-50,150,-75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} cone {<-50,150,75>,10 <-50,20,75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} cone {<-50,150,75>,10 <100,150,75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} cone {<100,20,75>,10 <100,20,-75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} cone {<100,20,75>,10 <100,150,75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} cone {<100,20,75>,10 <-50,20,75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} cone {<100,150,-75>,10 <100,150,75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} cone {<100,150,-75>,10 <100,20,-75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} cone {<100,150,-75>,10 <-50,150,-75>, 10 texture {red_frame}} The edges formed by the intersection of the box and the sphere is taken care of with and intersection of oversided copies of the original shapes. intersection { box {<-60,10,-85>,<110,160,85>} sphere {<100, 120, -85>,85} texture {red_frame} } Which makes the image you see attached. Note: I still don't have the sphere outlined in red. As for post processing I do have a few ideas that I think will work to a degree. I'll post something about one of them today if I can get it to work. Lets see... some of your other points. Yes I know the light cycle has the outline effect too. Its not seen on the pre-production pictures I copied though. Come to think of it the red framework isn't seen of the pre-production tank either. I don't really have the desire to add it to the light cycle as I don't think it adds much. The color difference isn't there and it doesn't stand out as much. On the tank however I do think the red frame on the black tank parts really does stand out. In the movie it ties the red lighting of the helicopter seen in the real world to the tanks in the computer world rather well and it gives the tanks alot of character so I was persuaded to add it back in. Note the first pictures I posted here didn't have it on the tank either. As for making my own rendeer I think that's more work then I really want to put into this. I'm not out to make perfect copies and I can get all the fixed lines added to the tank already. I've already gone far beyond what you see in the movie with textures, reflection, shadows, etc and I don't want to take that step backwards. Come to think of it even if I could add the lines that depend on camera postion back in they may look odd in animations. It will no longer look like that tank is covered on neon lights as the detail you can put into a POV-Ray render may make it jump out that "Hey... some of those lines are moving." I could also point out that not all of the edges of the turret/cannon get the red line effect in the movie and which do isn't always consistent from one sceen to the next. Thank you so much for all the feedback. I really appreciate it. Carl

MSW your comments were not taken to be negative so please don't worry about that. I enjoy the feedback. I'm curious why you are familar with the "funky shadows" and "popping polygons" though. To be honest they were things I never noticed till I sat down to try and model the thing. Did you have anything to do with the film or have you made your own models? And yes I noticed the menus on the SE DVD. I personally think I did a much better job however I'm not up to animating mine yet. And yes I agree with your assesment that its a very dificult job to copy the visuals of TRON exactly. The part I had the hardest job with was the red outline of the turret and even there my copy is missing parts I see no easy way to add. I have all the fixed edges lined in red but note the tank in the movie also had the domes outlined in red. There is no physical edge here as its just the outline of the shape against the background and its location depends on where the camera is placed. So I'm note sure how to add it to my model. At the moment I've just left them off. I think it would look better with them and I have an idea or two how I might be able to add them with some post processing but I'm not sure its worth the effort and if I ever animated my model and camera I'd have to do this post processing on each frame. There is one last idea that I haven't tried yet though. POV-Ray has a 'media' feature that I might use to add a thin shell of red 'fog' over the turret and cannon. I think if I make it thin enough you'll be able to see through it to the black underneath and at the very edge you'll just be looking through the red fog so you'll see a red outline. I have serious doubts as to rather it will work as I've already tried to cover it with a thin red glass. And even if it does work I'm afraid it will take much much longer to render then it already does which will make it useless for animation anyways. I've watched all the stuff on the SE DVD and its obvious the tank and the light cycle are made with what POV-Ray calls CSGs. However POV-Ray has no easy way to outline these CSG's as you see done in the movie. I doubt I'll ever do the solar sailer as its a mesh and I don't really even know where to begin with trying to copy that. I would however like to make a recognizer and after the work on the tank I think is should be rather easy to make. As it has no curved surfaces I can even add all the edge lines in and have it look right. A couple general question for you (or anyone that might be able to answer): (1) If you know how I could add the dome outlines to my model in POV-Ray I'm all ears. Since their location is camera dependant though I just don't see an easy solution. (2) I modeled my Lght Cycles before I saw all the info on the SE DVD. On one part of the DVD it shows how the cycle was made my adding the differences and intersections of simple shapes together. In it is shows the front wheel as being made from one large center sphere with two just slightly smaller spheres or spheroids cut out of the sides. I've always assumed that the pieces cut out were cones and thats how I modeled it. However now that I've seen that animation of the cycle being made on the SE DVD I'm tempted to go back and change my model. The thing is I don't think it would look right. All the pics I've seen of a complete light cycle don't seem to suggest that kind of curvature to the front wheel cutouts. Its possible I'm not interpreting the meaning of that part of the short light cycle assembly sequence on the DVD or maybe that part of the model was change before the movie was made. Does any have any high quality pictures of this part of the light cycles where it would show if that part is a cone or if it has some curvature to suggest that it needs to be a spheroid. I know there is an Art of Tron book out there and I'm sure there may be other sources I don't have. Thanks, Carl

I think I would have worded this as "Yes I know whether there are current plans for a larger perfect transformation version later". If there were no 'current' plans I don't think you'd be able to say the above. Then again even if there are plans I don't think that's any guarantee... unless... (ok I think I better stop guessing now). Sorry... I read between the lines FAR too much, Carl Oh and congrats!!!

Thanks guys. MSW I'm not trying to make perfect copies of the visuals from the movie. I like the TRON setting as a starting point for learning ray tracing as I don't have the skills yet to make something photo realistic. So I solved that problem by playing in a realm where things are supposed to look computer generated. Plus I also wanted to add my own touch. The light cycle is transparent as is the red dome on the tank. Both the tank and the cycle have light sources in them, that's something I don't think they were modeling back then. Also I've added alot of reflective surfaces, somthing else you didn't see in the movie. I should point out the tread on the tank isn't my idea. It differs from what you see in the movie but I got the idea from MAGI's preproduction model that you can see in some of my other posts. Another big area where I think I've made improvements is in the shadows. Check out this screen grab from the dvd. Not only is the shadow just a box with square corners but it looks like that shadow has the cannon pointed back at you. Also note what I believe to be an error on the right rear side panel. You can see the triangles that make up its surface since I don't think they are aligned properly.

I need to read ALL the posts before I ask stupid questions like the above. I just read the post above the one with the picture and I see YOU'RE Sergio de Costa Mechaninac. I must say I'm very impressed. Here is another Tread/Beta line art picture. Please feel free to work your magic on these and make a Tread/Beta multi-view drawing to go with your Legioss/Alpha one. I have more where these came from if they'd help. Feel free to PM me. Carl

Just now finding this thread. Mechaninac that has got to be one of the nicest pieces of Legioss/Alpha line art that I've seen. May I ask who Sergio da Costa is? AncientAngel I love your desire to model the Tread/Beta. If there is ANYTHING I can do to help just let me know. I probably have as much Tread line art as anyone. Just be patient with me as I currently don't have a scanner or a job. Here is a picture I took of some of the line art that came with my MonoCraft Tread & Legioss resin kit. Carl

Tank Command Program to Tank Pilot Program... You're already in hot water after you were responsible for derezzing that tank last week. Now how could you go and lose that rogue light cycle in the middle of the game grid. Come on... there is NOTHING out here for him to hide behind!!!

I must have missed them on the old boards. WOW!!! Welcome to MW... I saw this on your web page in regards to the Legioss "Thus far, this has been my favorite mecha design - ever since I was a child." And I must say you've got great tastes. You know a Legioss that nice needs a Tread to go with it. Now if there was just a 1/48 Tread out there with enough detail to look nice with your Legioss. If you haven't guessed the Legioss and Tread have been my favorites since childhood too. Its hard for me to think about one without thinking about the other. Very nice work and thanks for posting your buildup details page. I couldn't get this link to work: http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~mogura/P_model...l/legi/LEGI.HTM and it sounds like I'd have enjoyed it too. Did you save the pictures from it? Thanks, Carl

I noticed that alot of the pics on the site where I found that were doctored so I sort of assumed that it was VERY likely that this one MUST have been too. I'd be interested is seeing what the actual signs look like. Any idea where I could find a pic of one? Thanks, Carl

Here is an odd one.

Mechamaniac did you ever get that recording? If so could you post it as well? It could come in handy for anyone wanting to do this next year. At this point are you even still getting the phone calls? Oh and if you do catch the person be sure to get the details on the Secret Elves. Is it something he/she did on their own or something bigger then that?

The same is true of most trolls. I don't know Max or Hurin but I do see why Hurin is upset. I've been here at MacrossWorld since just about day one and I suspect most of you know me. I can believe Max might tend to push things too far and that those that know him are use to it and accect it or maybe even enjoy it as they say it spices things up. But... I don't think a moderator should use that tone when he acts in that capacity. I don't believe it reflect well on the comunity. Maybe I could call Max ANAL for obsessing on a 20 year old cartoon and get away with it as he should know what a hypocrite that would make me but I don't consider it wise. I read Hurin's "exibit A" and the only reason I saw that it should have been closed was that it DID take a wrong turn BUT it was Max's post that CAUSED things to go down hill. It strikes me almost as a news anchor making the news instead of reporting it. If that's Max's personality and some of you like it I'm fine with it as long as he keeps it to his posts but I believe it has NO place in his moderating duties. This is a place for fans of Macross and I believe Shawn wants all his fellow fans to know they can come here and be treated with respect. He's never shown me anything less. Sure Hurin stood up and fought back but how many others wouldn't have and just decided MacrossWorld wasn't the kind of place they wanted to be. I'm very hard pressed to find it justifiable for anyone here to call someone else ANAL for posting a valid Macross observation. Sure maybe those that know him see the hypocrisy and laugh but his place as moderator is NOT to scare off fellow fans that may not be use to his "sense of humor". I'd like to believe that Max's intent wasn't to piss off and that this is just as case of heavy handed sarcasm and if that's the case I too would like to ask him to please turn it down atleast when acting in the capacity as moderator. There this dickface has said his anal 2 cents... now play nice... Carl

Yeah, we're going to leave them a gift on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day I think... BTW - Another gift tonight, this time a (sealed) tin of multi flavored popcorn. We were out shopping again though, so no clue who it is still. What did the note say? Also I'm curious are you still getting the recorded phone calls? Is the recording the same each night?

Was there a note again? If so what did this one say? Come on... how can you forget and leave out these details?

And here is the bottom view of my model: Enjoy, Carl

I couldn't find bottom view of the MAGI preproduction TRON tank but here is a view cut off of the DVD:

The render of the right side is finished. For comparison purposes again here is MAGI's model: and here is mine: Enjoy... Carl

The render of the rear view finished last night. For comparison purposes here is MAGI's model: And here is mine:

Thanks again for the compliment. I've just finished the render of the front view of the tank so again for comparison purposes here is MAGI's model: And here is mine... Enjoy... Carl

For comparison purposes here is MAGI's model: And here is the top view of mine:

Ok... using the pics I was pointed to here: Tank on ledge Light cycles on same ledge Ram's cycle right next to a tank I made this pic. If you ask me they aren't consistant within the movie about the scale on these models. The cycle looks twice as large in the second picture as it did in the top picture. Is anyone aware of any official or unofficial specs for these models? Thanks, Carl