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Last one... there are some air bubbles in this one...

And another...

A close up...

the parts...

Here is the megazone recast...

A close up...

The parts...

The packing... note Valkyrie recasted a second kit (the hands). The original kit didn't have any hands.

Ok... lets start with Valyyrie's recast. The REAL recast this time...

Ok... the next order of business will be who does the recasting. That's NOT my call but I've got as much information as anyone so let me get it out there so as informed a decision can be made as possible. Lets look at these two kits. The Tread is a recast by Valkyrie. The Megazone kit is by the other individual that is interested who's asked me not to give out his name. I'll be posting more pictures soon and one piece of information I don't have is where my particular kits fall in the number of recasts each of these guys made of the kits. If one of these kits is the first recast and the other the last it might not be the best comparison but its the only comparison we have at the moment.

I don't think so. They are from another kit maker's web page that has hopes of someday making his own kit. D'Stance to be exact. Considering he's had those pics up for years and he sure isn't making much effort to sell his YF-21 I'm not too hopeful that it'll ever get made. Especially now that I.H.P has beat him to the punch. I don't know if D'Stance made these images or if he pulled them from something else. Carl

How are these?

How is it that this picture hasn't made it into this thread yet?

I don't think that's a fair statement. I believe everyone here would rather have an original over a recast. More originals AREN'T being made so we'll go with what we can get. Incorrect... as fulcy has already stated. Seiichi was in direct contact with I.H.P for probably about a year. He HAD agreed to make these kits for us and even gave us some special pricing and even offered the option to purchase finished/painted kits. If I recall correctly they were going to be cast in colored resin to distinguish them from the Wonder Fest kits. He became very busy... we were patient and waited... and it was him that finally let the whole project die. It even left Seiichi in a very tough position as he felt he'd let us down. I'll let Shawn speak for himself but he's fully aware of this thread. He called me this past weekend for several reasons. One of which was to congratulate me on finding a VB-6. Even though it was Melissa that found it... or maybe I should say it found her. Anyways I believe Shawn is as excited about this thread as most of the rest of us. Remember when Noel recasted the Club-M 1:48 VF-1S? I believe Shawn purchased a few of those.

I never said you called them invalid. People are entitled to their opinions and I have no problem with anyone stating what they believe. I see no reason to discourage it. Some debating is a very healthy thing. Pleople can still respect each other and disagree at the same time. You did say "please take it elsewhere on this forum, or let sleeping dogs lay." did you not? He didn't derail anything. He raised some concerns that others here may have had as well. There was no harm in him speaking up. I don't know about that. I know there are people out there that simply refuse to buy recasts. I started out that way myself. As I've learned more on the subject I've opened myself up more to the thought of owning recasts in cases where I know I'm not taking any money away from the creaters of these great kits. I now own several recasts and I've let others recast my originals in cases where I know the originals can no longer be obtained. The point is his post allowed me to share some information that maybe most don't have. Maybe it will even bring us another coustomer or two I don't know. But to me anything that puts more information on the table is a good thing. No one is asking you to justify your reasons. This also doesn't have to be a moral issue IMHO. To me its an issue between the letter of the law, the rights of the creator of the kit, and the preservation of art. Keep in mind its my understanding that is some countries it is perfectly leagal to recast someone else's work and make a living doing it. That's NOT even what this project is about. It doesn't hurt to try... does it? I just didn't see it as senseless... That's all although I'm willing to respect your opinion too. Carl

No D'Stance has turned up yet. I think people are just hopefull one will soon. I must admit I thought we were getting the cart ahead of the horse as I didn't expect a VB-6 to turn up as fast as it did. Since it did maybe we'll get lucky on the D'Stance too. By the way... please add me to the D'Stance list. I've already got an original VF-4 but leave me on the list for one of these too. Carl

I think the odds of this recast being half the cost of the original are VERY small. Had you been at Wonder Fest and been able to buy an original I doubt you'd have been paying for more then the cost of materails and his license. And believe me I for one would easily pay 2x or 3x for an original. The recasting of these variable kits is usually not done. Check out the big recasting shops and you will see very few kits of this complexity being done. Its because it will cost as much to make the recast as the original kits were. For the kits we are talking about here, the maker, the designer, and the sculptor are all the same person. And the only advertising that they've done is set up their own home page. They really have no need to avdertise and most of the kit makers that sell kits at wonder fest don't even set up a web page. If they make good kits they never have a problem selling out at these events. I think most of these kits makers do it for the bragging rights to be able to say they'd sold an officialy licenced kit more then the money. They way the licencing system is set up in Japan I'm amazed they haven't killed the hobby already. I really don't see how any of these kit makers are making money. Some of the ones that I know do make a living at this don't go to these events any more as a result. Its been years sinces I've seen Studio HalfEye at a wonderfest for example. The two we've talked about here I think are willing to do this because they want this kit as bad as the rest of us do. I think they both would be happy to come out of this and NOT lose money. For anyone to make any significant amout of money at this we'd have to charge more then the original kits were sold for. That's why no one else is recasting this kit. Some of these kit makers I know sell kits at Wonder Fest to get there name out there in the hopes they make a name for themselves and be able to turn it into something bigger. That is more or less how Studio HalfEye got his start. If anything this will help to spead I.H.P's name but I believe he's already moved on to other things. I think very few of the kits sold at Wonder Fest make the kit maker enough money to cover his time and effort put into the Kit. Even the big companies lose money selling kits at Wonder Fest. I've heard the 1:48 kits that Club-M made to sell just at wonder fest lost them alot of money. It was a stunt done almost solely for advertising and did get them into all the hobby magazines at the time. Also keep in ming ALL these kits are just marketed to the Japanese. They don't make ANY effort to sell these kits outside of Japan so we aren't taking any busniess away from them. I hope these licencing laws change and that places like HLJ are able to offer many more original kits from many different makers but till that day comes many of these kits you'll ever get a chance to see first hand will HAVE to be recasts. Carl

No... its not what people says that makes them unpopular most of the time. Its how they say it. Here you are standing up for something you believe and I believe being very nice about it. I think everyone here can respect that. I do. And I share some of your same concerns. I don't believe any of the people we are considering for this recast project is out to make money at it. I know both of the two I've mentioned and I'm sure both have lost money in the past bending over backwards to help fellow fans. I have a hard time calling such a person a bootlegger. They will be happy because they are in the hobby too and will be able to get this kit for themselves finally. I'm sure whoever takes on this project will be putting alot of time and effort into cleaning this kit up and I doubt they will be passing on much more then the cost of materials. If they were to charge us what they deserved for their time I suspect these recasts would cost more then the originals. Yes... it is. But its also not right to lets these works of art disapear into obscurity on a hand full of collector's shelves. To my knowledge there are only 8 of these VB-6 kits in existance. If the licencing in Japan would allow it I'm sure many of these kit makers would love to sell their kits on-line and offer then to a much bigger audiance. They can't. Not the way things are set up in Japan. They are only allowed to sell 20 kits a years which usually boils down to 10 at each Wonder Fest of the year. These rare kits are usually sold out in the first minutes of the show. And considering what the maker has to pay for licencing and the limited amout he's allowed to sell I really don't see how they can be making any money either. I think they must be doing it for the honor of being able to show off their works and have them appreciated enough that others are willing to buy them. Remember this groups first course of action was to try and get originals through Seiichi. That's now fallen apart but even the original maker WAS trying to get this kit into our hands. He's not the easiest person to get in touch with but I really have a hard time thinking he'd be upset by this. He may feel honored that his kit is viewed as a great enough piece of art that fans are willing to go to this length to get one and it will save him the time and trouble of making more. Believe me the cost at which he was willing to sell these wouldn't have made him much money. I think many under estimate how much work goes into something like this. Look at the 1/32 Legioss Project for example. I think John has stated that what he's done so far of that project is worth something like $40,000 since he makes a living doing stuff like that and he charges for his time. Do you really think I.H.P can make money selling just 8 of these VB-6 kits for several hundred dollars each? I really don't see this causing ANY harm to I.H.P. If anything it hurts people like myself and the owner of this VB-6 that collect the original kits. With just 8 of these out there, their value is almost anything the owner wants for it. But I get more out of helping fellow fans then knowing the dollar value of my collection. Besides an original will ALWAYS be worth more then a recast.

Gundamhead has a valid opinion. He has stated it nicely and I believe that is to be encouraged. I'm sure this thread will continue as before should he choose to stay and I hope he does. I'm about to state my feelings on the subject and would love to hear what he has to say. Carl

I'm not sure. I think the VB-6 may be the rarest of these. I was told 8 were sold at the Wonder Fest were they were offered and to my knowledge that was the only time they were available. I'm still curious where our anonymous friend got his/hers if he/she's willing to tell us. Atleast two have been resold on Yahoo Japan but I still think I remember seeing a third. As to the D'Stance YF-21 it too was also just sold at one Wonder Fest to my knowledge. So I'm guessing there may be about 10 to 20 kits out there. However I've never seen this kit on Yahoo Japan. It HAS however made it to eBay thanks to a kit that was sold by Noel and I didn't keep bidding on it at the time as I thought I would be able to get one direct from D'Stance. Also the kits that I'm aware of that were sold did NOT have the fast packs that are now seen on D'Stance's webpage: D'Stance's YF-21 Those were added to the kit and his website after the event where I know some of these were sold. To my knowledge the kit with fast packs has NEVER been available. I'd love to be proven wrong and I'm hopeful the kits will be offered with the fast packs at some point. By the way... here is something you guys can help me with. I just seached the forums for my old D'Stance threads. The oldest I found was this one: D'Stance Thread However there was one before this that I started when the fast pack pics first popped up. I think it was titled something like "D'Stance now with fast packs". My search didn't find it however. I assume its in the old forums. Can Shawn or the moderators still get to those old threads? The reason I want to find that thread is the person that bought the one Noel sold posted in that thread. He was interested in trying to get the fast pack for his. I believe he also emailed me but I now don't have any of my old TI emails. I had told him I'd be sure to contact him if I was ever able to track down the fast packs. Anyways... there is a member here (or atleast was) that has publicly stated he has one. I'd love to bring him into this thread if he's still around. We could hope he'd be willing to let his be recasted. If he's afraid of the risk or is willing to sell I'll offer to buy his kit, let it be recasted, AND give him the first recast free. Can anyone here help me contact him? Carl

I'm a little curious how you knew I had one? Its a 1:100 scale kit and not the quality of a Studio HalfEye kit but if there were interest I'd be willing. However it may not be necessary. The recaster I'm thinking of may already have this in the works. When he was asked if he'd be interested in the VB-6 project part of his reply that I've been asked not to share stated this: With IHP kits, I have a plan to recast them by [snip]. They are YF-19, YF-21,VF-11 Full Armored, VF-1 Armored, VF-17, VF-4 I also have a plan to make VF-22 Parts for YF-21. I hope I can say that much without stepping on any toes. He hasn't replied to my last email asking for some clarification though. Melissa please let me know when/if you hear from him. He's got your email address. Anyways it sounds like he's already got the VF-17 and a VF-4... not sure which VF-4. If its the 1/72 VF-4 then our anonymous friend may not need to be parted with his VF-4 for that project to go forward. By the way... there are 3 variable Macross Kits that I consider the pinnacle of design. I'm not talking about quality of casting just the shear complexity of the design and the beauty of the final product from the pictures I've seen. I sort of reserve that level for kits that I've seen that are better then the kits Studio HalfEye has put out. 2 of the 3 are already being talking about in this thread. That being the I.H.P VB-6 and the D'Stance YF-21. The two I don't have and that are at the top of my wish list. A very close 4th on the list of best kits I've seen is also mentioned here. The 1:72 I.H.P VF-4. So it seems only natural that I throw the one that hasn't been mentioned yet into the mix. How many here have ever seen the L-Trans-R 1:72 YF-19? I've got one. There are some picture of it here on an early version of my wanted page: Old Wanted List This whole page is in serious need of an update. Anyways if after the VB-6 project and the VF-4 project there is interest I'm willing to let this kit be recasted. Carl

Thanks. And you are correct. The shiny chrome is artistic licence on my part as well as the ground reflections and a few other minor tweeks. Its easy enough to make the underside a flat gray and it even renders faster that way. I just like the look of the chrome. In other of my TRON works I've also made the body transparent and I like that look more then the flat red but it renders much slower so I'm not using that effect for these test animations. Carl

What do you suggest? They just flash on and off from one frame to the next in the movie and are fixed in place. I'm thinking about making them rotate like they were real spokes. If might give a better sense of motion but it wouldn't copy the effect seen in the movie but I might be ok with that. If they were to flash and rotate I think that'd look a little jarring. Or do you think I should just change the shape or the texture of the current spokes? Carl

Melissa, I've contacted the other recaster I was thinking of just to see if he was interested in this project. He is. He's the only recaster that I personally know that has experience taking very rough/crude, very complex variable resin kits and cleaning them up and making excellent quality recasts. I'm sure Valkyrie can too. I've got complete faith in both these guys but I'm just wanting to provide options. Anyways... this person (yes he too wishes to remain completely anonymous). He knows many of these kit makers himself and doesn't want it known he's recasting their works and he's only willing to now as the originals are no longer available. He has a fairly large operation so he might have resources Valkyrie doesn't. And he's already got other avenues available to him in terms of selling this recast. That should help keep costs down. That said I wasn't directly involved with his last recast project I talked about above. The kit he recasted I believe was his own so I think he cleaned up the original before making the casts. If that's so Valkyrie has more experience with the process of making the casts twice. I will do my best to see if I can get him to PM you. His biggest concern is seeing the quality of the original kit. Would it be possible to get pictures of the parts posted here so all potential recasters have a chance to see the magnitute of the job they may have before them? Thanks, Carl

I couldn't agree more with both of these points guys. Very well stated. Carl