KingNor

I think Robs actions made perfect sense, if i'd just told off a girl i was in love with, and then got that call on my cell, hell no could i leave her. the uh.. was she black? the non white girl going with them, also i think had a good reason to stay with Rob, her boyfriend just died, the guy was his brother, they were very emotionally bonded right then. the white chick.. she was kinda paling around but i think had she not.. you know.. she would have stayed with the military. the only one i don't really understand is hud, why'd he want to go so bad? well i think thats why they established him as a kinda dumb ass who's whole world revolved around Rob. Hud was clearly a guy who didn't think much for himself and looked to rob for direction, and robs direction was wounded girl. thats the only reason i can justify their actions. honestly if the white chick hadn't [verb removed for spoiler content], i think the black girl woulda stayed with her at the military medic station, but since things got so emotional i can totally see why she'd go with her friends rather than stay with strangers and wounded people. just my take

think of it less as a pillar of sci fi, and more as a topic of discussion. not EVERY movie needs to be a hand-held-walkthrough-validating-every-point-exposition about some fictional event. Watch the movie, think about it, what you would do, and start a conversation. Thats what something like this is for. Talk with your friends about what wasn't shown, I guarentee it will be more entertaining than had they spelled it out for you.

this would have been better as a sitcom in an alternate universe where the Arnold bot marries Sarah and lives in suburban jungle of Temecula California with roudy john connor, as his dad. The coulda called the show "Easy Money" i'm telling you it'd be a hit!

[starwars rant] in the original trillogy, darth was a sith through all three movies, the empereor showed up in movie2 and remained till the end of movie3, luke wasn't a jedi till movie three, and obiwan died in movie1 and gosts don't cont as jedi. Yoda, while powerful, was content to sit in the mud and tell luke not to go help his friends while they were in need. Not very jedi like, while he retained jedi powers, i don't think it's fair to call him a true jedi at that point in the lore... so, where i'm going with all this is that the Sith, especially in the OT, were far more represented than the Jedi, and a HELL more influential. especially if you take the view i did that luke was on his way to becoming a sit, had vader not stepped up to the plate. So in the end, the full fledged Jedi, wussed out and turned into ghosts (obiwan utterly willingly so) while the fate of the universe ultimately rested in the benevolent "hand" of a sith. deal with it. * * Note: EP1-3 ommited on grounds of personal self respect [/starwars rant]

My point exactly. If it was LA i know there could have been tanks from Camp Pendelton in a few hours, and Cobra's nearly instantly, if a carrier was in port in San Diego, naval planes could have been on hand relatively quickly too, if most of the crew wasn't on shore leave. I'm just skeptical of how much military hardware is kept ready to fight on or near american soil. I know in 9/11 is was quite a while before military planes were in the skys, and the first on scene were unarmed f-18's that had been on training missions. I think it was an hour or two before armed fighters were on target.

I'm going to try not to be political, but talk militarily. The military isn't some godlike service ready to have any sort of hardware on site with in hours. that's not how it works. To site the examples given above, in New Orliens it's not like the military base down the road was ready to go; all the emergency crews near the hurricane site GOT HIT BY THE SAME HURRICANE, they had to get equiptment from around the country into an UTTERLY DEVESTATED part of the southern coast. Not just one city. IIRC there was major military responce with in the week of the storm hitting. And let me sum up just a few of the reasons for a "long" response time. keep in mind that the US Armed forces, while trianed somewhat to aid disaster victims, ARN'T a large scale fire department. Most soldiers have humvees with machine guns, m16's or m14 rifels and combat medical training. In the words of some fictional military medic "I mostly patch holes, i'm not trained for this." Sure you could dump guns and ammo out of "A" humvee and drive to the rescue, but when it's 10,000 humvee's that becomes a lot of un attended machineguns and ammo, also how are you going to fuel the gass guzzlers? with diesel stations 10 feet underwater? All this required planning and mobilization. And it's not like the entire country was sitting around on a hair trigger to go respond to a disaster of that scale, USUALLY local responce is enough. I could go on and on, in short... If you're going to blame ANYONE for a slow response it should NOT BE THE MILITARY. That be like blameing the SWAT team because an ambulance didn't snow up on time. Now to get back on topic. I think the Military response in Cloverfield was impressive almost to the point of unbeleivability. True, soldiers and Humvee's could easily be put on target quickly, but to think they'd have multible Abrams tanks on target with in less than 7 hours is a pretty impressive responce time. I don't know how many Armored Divisions they keep in manhatten, but i'm sure it's not many *btw thats sarcasm i'm sure there are no armord divisions on the island. True there could have been Cobra's on hand relatively quickly IF there was a marine base nearby, with choppers armed fueled and on scramble readyness. In most cases I'd imagine most military killing vehicles in the US are kept an hour or two of prep time from actual combat readyness. Arming live weapons, doing diagnostics, fueling, pre flight and pre combat system checks all takes time. And would take longer for a group not on scramble alter, ie: pilots are at home sleeping, not at the air strip in flight suits. It's also very possible that Choppers were on hand early on and we simply missed it. The military responce in the movie is clearly not a major plot point until day break the next day, and then if you notice, the heros seem to lay low most of the day and dont' set out untill dusk the next day (which makes me think the 7 hours quoted by the Rob is not quite accurate) I agree, it's not fair that Transformers got an AC-130 and cloverfield didn't, though to be fair, unless Hud had been told while the camera was rolling that a gunship was on station, how would WE know ? And while the f-18's were doing bombing runs on the monster, you know any attack choppers in the area would have bugged out. Do they keep AC-130's armed and ready to fight with in 7 hours of New York city? I think the military was well represented here.

really, the one thing that bugged me was the "government document" stuff at the begining. It implyed that the US is essentially fine in the long run. Too bad, i mean, this monster seems to be impervious to EVERYTHING. not even a scratch from missles. Say more show up? well i guess more didn't and i guess the military eventually DID kill it since the gov was around to classify tapes afterwards. It would have been nice to be kept in total dark about the state of ANYTHING after the film ended. I like that sort of thing, gives you more to talk about rather than being force fed what happend. Really though that's just nitpicking, I can't find a whole lot in this film that I didn't like.. Perhaps a cast of more realistic looking heros would have been nice.. but what ever. The military were well portrayed i thought.. Over all i thoguht it was a great little flick. I want to get into shakey cam a bit though: I want people to consider the difference between this movie and say.. bourne ultimatum. Bourne is shot with an omnipresent type camera, you're not part of anything, you're a floating eye taking in a movie. why is it shakeing? I know a shake here or there with a hit or explosion adds to the impact, but why the whole time? Cloverfield has a perfectly legitimate reason to shake, and is infact a MAJOR part of the story. If you simply can't handle the shakeing, ok, i won't argue with you. But people complaining that the shakey cam was just irritateing or made it hard to see things are COMPLETELY missing the point. I mean completely. It's supposed to be hard to see. It adds to the mystique and realism. I understand it can make people sick, but well, lifes a bitch sometimes. Everyone knew going in that this movie was gonna be shakey, so ya gotta just deal with it. It's the new obsession with indiscriminate shakey cam in cinematic movies that bugs me. Bourne Ultimatum gave me a headache that ruined the better part of my day, Cloverfield wasn't nearly as bad IMHO, sure it shook more, but you weren't really expected to focus on anything so youc an kinda just blank at the screen and think "they're running" etc. I really don't think the shakey cam took anything away from this film.

That was, what they call in the biz, "Special Effects." Most people havn't heard about it yet, but I know a few directors. Sometimes things on screen look real, but they're actually fake.

Thanks Dave, for the most part i live and die by HLJ.com when it comes to japanise toys. According to HLJ the girl is discontinued.

does anyone have a Rei they'd sell me for a fair price? I hadn't heard about the Eva girls and now it's too late for Rei.

we're CLEARLY not saying to remake SDF, quite clearly.

I appreciate what you're saying, and your passion for keeping the original original. however i don't think the statement that "if we can't "love" the bad animation we shouldn't watch the show" is really a fair thing to say. I don't think my love for macross and my love for animation need to be mutually exclucive. that said, i 100% agree that if the show could not be updated, and the animation filled in, WITHOUT major changes to plot and story, I'd say leave it alone too. What i'm suggesting is a perfect world scenario where the art director of the update would have perfect respect for the original content and the self control not to add his own stupid ideas, or re-edit ANYthing. Love it or not, there are animated sequences in SDF that look like utter garbage. Some that are CLEARLY not inbetweened. Literally, there is unfinished animation that made it to print and work that doesn't even look like it was done by a well meaning intern. Yes we've all had a good laugh looking at some funky screen grabs of misshapen valkyries and such, but laughing at SDF's errors isn't what made me love it. In SDF I live for those rare anmation moments that were well done, or those amazing story moments, the likes of which haddn't been attempted in any "kid" show i'd ever experienced before. Really, when was the last show you saw that gave kids enough credit to handle the coolest guy in the show getting killed? I think Im perfectly capeable of loving SDF for what it is, while at the same time aknowledging it's short comings and errors. It's not perfect, and luckly, where it fails tends to be in the superficial things, things that, by fixing them, wouldn't ruin the show.

i remember in 98 i think, buying a vhs COPY of episode 3 of roboteh from a local music/stuff store just so i could hear the opening theme song to the show. tape cost me 20 bucks. times were rough back then. 40 bucks for he whole serise? c'mon.

actually i think i like what i like of it because it's the most closely related to the original, in terms of plot devices. Make no mistake, i find the show facinateing, not good. hehe. Much of the show i find unwatchable, the singing just grates, the lady druming on everything, ugg.. i can't handle it. but when it does something in true homage to the original i can't help but feel a little touched. M7 also manages to exemplify in the most brash way possible nearly everything i've come to dislike about the subsequent macrossees. so don't think for a minute that i think it's a good sequil or anything hehe.

Humans are already the limiting factor in fighter planes... It's amazing to me that in nearly a single human lifetime from the invention of powered flight, planes have become so advanced that they can literally kill their pilot with their performance (or, at least COULD if we built a plane that could maneuver as hard as our technology could allow). Humans have gone from inventing the plane, to being the weakest part of a plane in less than 100 years of flying. I'd imagine the next generation of fighter, after the F-22 will be at least partially unmanned. They're already fly by wire, it wouldn't be a huge leap to train Predator pilots to fly an F-22 from a land based cockpit. If distance and lag are an issue, maybe the pilots will fly in sims housed in C-130's orbiting near the actual operation zone. It would already be an easy next step today, I think.

what baffles me in my likes/dislikes in macross, is how, while not really interested in watching it end to end, M7 has become sort of an interesting show to me. I find watching the VF-1's in new context utterly facinateing now. In SDF they were the newest baddest thing in the sky, in M7 they're old, used for all sorts of unglorious things. Seeing Max and Millia in the new context and PATICULARLY Millia keeping her Valk in working order, that is a awesome demension to her character. Because of it's closer ties to SDF I'm sort of finding more interesting than any of the other macross's. There is a LOT I don't like, but sad to say it feels closer to the original than some of the others in quite a few ways. Granted I hav't seen much and tend to fast forward when ever it looks like Basara or FireBomba are gonna sing so... I'm sure I'm missing a lot. Anyway Thanks for posting Warmaker. :-) Maybe one of the things that endears me to SDF is that in the shows diagetic world, the people in the show are closer to being like "us" than most other Macross show. Space travel is still not something the general public are used to, aliens are new, no one knows what's going on. It's no people starting out in an interstellar space vessal in the far reaches of the galaxie. The heros of Space War 1 are people that started out more or less like you or me. That may be a big part of it.

so as of this post, the anti-franchise crowd is 25% of the MW population. You have to admit that is a significant ammount. If you consider how many of you might have answered the other way if DYRL and M+ were as far as the franchise went, I think it's pretty interesting as many of us as there are would be happier with just SDF. I think what's even more interesting is how few of those 25% actually posted anything. I wonder what this all means.

what if everything is left 100% as it is, except max an millia's knife fight gets a make over? can we all agree on that?

Yeah, I totally agree it would work. I'd love to show this to some of my cousin's and kids in my family, but litterally they have trouble getting passed the bad animation. It's too bad an update will never happen. The normal animation of the characters talking and some of the action is fine, but when its the same stuff over and over, they get bored.

btw, i love seeing this topic back, i find the differing views facinateing.

>EXO< Thank god you're here, you and I seem to be in exact agreement over how a SDF:M update should be. I say UPDATE because I don't think "remake" is a good word. I also don't think SDF should be redone with DYRL visuals either. As I and EXO and a few other people have said, the "update" would use the exact same old model sheets for the characters and mechs, it would just even out the frame rate, maybe replace a few of the heavily recycled animation sequences. (mind you, the original sequences would remain in the show, just not shown in every other episode) The audio would remain the same, same actors, same "Look" no cg. Thats what I would like to see. Sort of like the EVangelion Collectors thing.. i forget what it's called. It's still the same show, just as if it had a propper budget. And i still content Kawamori doesn't like SDF anymore. maybe the VF-1 is his favorite VF but he's clearly moved away from the grounded-in-reality story style of SDF for more fantastical stuff. If there were a update, i'd want it done by someone who respects and worships the original, not someone who would inject it with 25 years worth of afterthoughts and spiritual/magic garbage.

as a matter of fact, i havn't. I just saw episode 1 though, granted with out subtitles, but honestly, it didn't need them. It does look promicing, the VF's look pretty sweet minus their space armor, which looks ass. The one that comes in and gets beat up by that space bug actually looked cool.

i need to see MF.. where can i find episodes?

for me, saying "gundam doesn't suck" is blasphemy enough. If you're going to be a heathen, go all the way, my hat is off to you sir.

I intend to force my opinions and beliefs on others, especially in how they conduct their private lives. I'm ruthless like that.