KingNor

Wow, way to suck all the fun out of the joke. Maybe you should drop by my place the next time I'm watching Scrubs, so you can point out all sorts of medical inaccuracies. Campbell or Volger, it doesn't really change what I'm trying to tell Cory, does it? i... i..

well what i envision isn't much like the "lucas" effect. fixing real problems like some of max's 4 frame a second walks and improper cells arn't jacking with the story. its just fixes. i could be wrong but i dont' think anyone loves SDF BECAUSE of the mistakes. and i mean technical mistakes, impropers cells on screen, animation that is blocked but not in-betweened, color poping. i'm not saying re-edit. this is no "twin snakes" or special edition, just some fixes. thats just what i'd like to see.

That's from J-Decker you dummy. Really? are you shure you want to call me a dummy? hey dummy, mellow out

i dont' know who started the trend of the "point by point" replys, but am i the only one who finds them minid numbing?? please just put togeather a coherent responce and post it, you don't need to repost the ENTIRE post you're responding to. anyway what you described here: is psychological warfare!!! they used mental conditioning/reason/whatever to defeat their enemys and not only that, but turn them into allys. thats psychological warfare dude... even if it's unintentional. Earths culture, simply by being exposed to the Zentradi defeated the zentradis will to fight the way they have been. as for the theme of music in macross... while music is used in all the serise, the role and prominence of the music, not to mention the nature of its effect on people has changed dramaticly since the original serise. even in plus they started showing this "trance" state that music caused. I'll leave it at that. if you can't see how the role of music has evolved in the franchise, and likewise can't grasp how fans of the original might not like the new developments, then i can't continue this part of the discussion with you. I CAN accept the change, i don't like it but i accept it's changing. you on the other hand seem very intent on proving that nothing is changing and its been that way since the start. so don't accuse other people of being closed minded. there is NO "spirita" in SDF, none. Accept it. likewise, someone who is a fan of a pretty well thought out militaristic serise (SDF) has every right to be put off by something like a drumset in a fighter plane, that is NOT a superficial (superciial) thing. again.. if you can't see that, i don't know what to say. insturments and emotion driven vehicles are.. not something SDF had aluded to. i guess what i'm saying is that most fans of SDF (hardcore sdf fans like me) will never really like the serise after it because they don't mesh well. Kawamori even stated himself he's not making much of an effort to make them mesh. so for YOUR opinions to carry weight, you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that m7 m0 and to a lesser extent m+ and dyrl DON'T match the original, they have things in them the original didn't AND even if you can loosely justify some stuff as having been forshadowed in the original, IT WASN'T intentional by the creators. macross is a completely diffrent animal than it was in its SDF days. please stop trying to convince us that extra human music powers, the underwater city, aphos and all this post-SDF stuff was in SDF because it wasn't. SOME of the themes are the same but most are at least somewhat changed, many are comepletely diffrent now. if you're so open minded, stop trying to mesh everything togeather and accept that they are diffrent, and that not all fans like the changes. huff huff [/rant rave soapbox]

Umm.....do you watch much anime? Amuro seemed pretty "special." What about the crew from Gatchaman? And this isn't even something confined to anime, either. I could form some kind of argument that would cite Joseph Campbell, but the only way you would buy it would be if it came from the Robotech.com Encyclopedia. persicely why i liked Macross before it adopted the usual anime quirk of having a "special" person needed to tell the story. in SDF there were NO super humans/ special people, they were ALL normal humans, no extra nothing. just them and their willingness (or lack there of) to fight. as for Campbell, hes a pretentious arse... read Vogler, he builds on Campbells ideas, uses examples that might make sence to someone who doesn't study abstract tribal storys and actually presents the information in a way that is useable.

very very well put RADD... keith i agree with you here and i'd like to add something to it. there are alot of themes shared by m0 and m7, both are presented in diffrent ways. like RADD said, the presentation is just as important. In SDF i do beleive the story was about the strentgh of the human will/heart. but it was manifested through the humans physical willingness to do something about their situation. Minmay was like a representation of their will, and in the story also a psycological distraction (see: weapon) against the enemy. the overall theme of SDF to me was "bring togeather, don't destroy" but the means to that end was bloody. Mzero and M7 have the same things going on in them, but instead of minmay's singing simply being a way to bring out unfound emotions in the zentradi, music is used as a more tangible.. recogniseable.. and reliable type of weapon. in SDF music was used to SUPPORT the main fighting force and give them an edge. M7, and to a lesser extent, Mzero seem to want to use music INSTEAD of a main fighting force. in that the music itself could single handedly decide the outcome of a conflict. I feel this diffrence is where SDF is set apart from the rest of the franchise. SDF = one person with a song can make a diffrence Macross franchise since = one person with a song is the most powerful of all. this is the break for me. i don't like the idea that the rest of humanity kinda, falls off into the background i guess.

Too bad Spehiroth is second only to Kefka in the "lamest villain ever" category. Sorry, but I have to say, I strongly disagree with that statement....... Kefka > Sephiroth! It's a close race. But a clown? i enjoyed kefka as a villan emencely, i thought he started out as a weak lacky and got stronger and stronger, while maintaining is insanity. i'll agree that sepheroth was kinda a weak baddie though, all style and hair. i felt the real battle in 7 was cloud fighting himself anyway. kinda like.. cloud had to conqure himself before he coudl save the world, and clouds probs were what was the focus of the story, least thats what i got out of it. i want some Terra, Edgar, Sabin, Locke, Celes, Cyan, etc figures on par with these advent children figures. the FF6 crew has been a LONG time comeing... and by comeing i mean, we'll never see them though i kind of have a feeling these characters a gonna be on size with the FLCL figures... tiny. (hope i'm wrong)

i havn't seen the scene yet. but i dont' see what the "wow-ie" effect of seeing wonky tumbly bullets could be. "damn dude, did you see how wrong that bullet fired? that was rad!!" ?? huhh? but i came up with a theory... someone earlyer said that guards would spray close range with smgs and miss completely. maybe if the game is played on a harder level, the enemys shoot better and in the "tumbling bullets" scene, we see the bullets are now flying properly. maybe its an explination of the easyer difficulty level? easyer level: "hey look the bullets are all weird, no wonder they can't hit anything!" harder level: "the bullets fire normaly now! that must be why they're smoking me now!" just a thought, anyone gotten to that part using a harder/ hardest difficulty level?

is the 1999 crash the one where 3 of the planes followed the wing leader into the ground? i thought all four pilots were killed in that.

it seems really odd that they'd showcase this with out there being a good reason. what kind of gun is this "the boss" using? if its a colt .45 those are pretty well known for their tumbling bullets arn't they?

Is he willing to? Yes. Does he want to? Probably no. He probably likes the voices he picks for his characters (who wouldn't, since he is the director) and would not change them. It's been 20 years and he didn't change the voice of Roy so... For games, yes he will use different voices (he got a new VA for Hikaru in the PS2 game) but I don't think he will for animated productions. you're missing the point, they'd just use the original voice tracks, no need to replace hikarus voice actor. the idea wasn't a REMAKE it was a REANIMATION of the serise. personally i'd just like to see the mistakes fixed, and the frame-rate bumped up in some spots. maybe swap out some of the re-used fight scenes for clean new ones. i'd rather not see CG in the original, but thats just where me and mr Dat have differing views.

ok maybe i wasn't clear when i used the word "humanity" because in the show the zentradis are shown be be basic genetic matches. 99.99 what ever percent. they look like us, and with proper upbringing they act like us. they can mate with us and produce offspring. yes zentradi are zentradi and not "humans" but they are posesing of every human quality, giving them a humanity like ours. probably not the best word, sorry. my point is that they act JUST like we do given the same sircumstances. thus the way they act are not so much because they are aliens called zentradi, but because they are PEOPLE who've been deprived of culture. (also they are very big) driving my point home that singing didn't have a effect on them because they are zentradi (aliens), but because they'd never heard singing before. they were behaving the exact same way humans would have in the same situation. same reason like.. bears and dolphins don't have "culture shock" when they hear singing. as for other serise's meshing witht he early ones.. i think dyrl, m+, MZERO work well togeather, i think Macii, SDF, and M7 don't fit with anything else.

singing to someone and having it affect them isn't super natural. floating rocks, and super fast growing flowers, mind control, jets turning into birds/sprouting feathers.. supernatural. i use magic to refer to the stuff that doesn't seem to have any other explination, like singing a song to make rocks float. however, singing and affecting someones emotions isn't friggin magic. its just how people are. nothing special is happening to the zentradi.. imagine if you'd never ridden in a car, then you did one day, the feeling of speed would be overwhelming i'm sure. imagine never having heard a song before, then hearing a very pretty melody, it would be quite effecting on you. zentradi are a deprived form of humanity, its natural for them to flip out when they see a society based on such completely diffrent values than they have. Minmays singing doesn't effect the rest of the people from earth cuz they grew up with it. tap dancing christ, you guys ever seen SDF or what? the show itself goes extensively into this stuff. do we really need to explain to the M7/M0 croud the message of the original SDF Macross? you guys even watch it or do you just assume that preludes to this stuff are there? cuz' its NOT. oi. i offer this then, cuz i'm sick of proveing negatives to you guys. i want you to offer some PROOF that in SDF macross, stuff like the aphos had already happend, music was designed to run super weapons and have mystic powers. (and for gods sake, psycological warfare IS NOT a mystic power.) Gimme some proof please. find something in SDF that is a lead in to insturment powered jets and music being the sole thing needed to win wars, ship and rocks floating around and all this weirdness.. c'mon. (also, i jsut want to go on record, that my point is SDF in no way was implying the way it was going to go. what gets on my nerves is when people say stuff like this was the plan all along. I don't mind m7 and m0 on their own, what ever i'll just not watch them, but when people say that all the bizzare crap from these shows is aluded to in 7 and zero, then it gets on my nerves)

why didn't they go with something more along the lines of the blue-angels layout? those stripes and stuff look great on a f-18. i don't understand why they thought they should force a f-14's scheme on a plane with a diffrent profile.

i think the idea that a culture devoid of all emotional and physical contact with other people, besides killing, could be seriously thrown off its rythm by contacting a culture like the Earths is a completely valid model for a sci-fi story. I think that the idea that "if you sing from the heart you can have special powers" is also a valid model for a sci-fi story, BUT in my opinion its more along the lines of Jem or MyLittlePony. SDF Macross does NOT lend itself as a good prequil to the zany-ness of Mac7 or MacZero. If you really can't see the VAST diffrences in the Macross universe's portraied in these 3 shows then you are ALSO diluting yourself. As for Macross Plus. It's the grey area. Yes there seemed to be some magical singing and stuff going on with Sharron Apple but it could all be pretty much atributed to the advanced technology. The hologram in the valk could be explained that the entire cockpit is monitors or holographic emmiters of somekind (the pilot can see through the plane basicly) and sharon as a CGAI simply hacked his plane. OR you could interpet it that Sharon is a machine that found a way to "sing from the heart" like the M7 guys and was able to do more that way. Neither one is really explained, but since .. is it shin?.. didn't seem OVERly supprised to see a floating Sharron Apple in his cockpit, he must have known there was some way she was doing it (and that.. like.. he's not going insane or something). my main point is that, just because a show has stuff like giant robots, doesn't mean that magic singing MUST be accepted by the audience. And vice versa. I mean... i could go on and on about how this stuff works. Star Wars had both magic and technology, but it DIDNT' have supernatural stuff. like Demons. that would have felt out of place. Lord of the Rings had magic and supernatural stuff, but very little tech. robots and jets would have felt wrong in LOTR. Watership Down had bunnies with religion and vast social structure set in a modern day setting with trains and cars. No dragons magic or aliens Legend had fantasy monsters and Demons, also no machines. SDF Macross had giant aliens and advance technology, nothing supernatural or magic. Do you see how the changes made to the original story could be seen as jarring and un-attractive to many people? Maybe when you watched it you saw the music and though "man, i wish the music played a more pivitol part, to the point that it OVERSHADOWED the technology, what a great message that would send" and thats the way the serise went, but if you TRUELY can't see how people could have watched the original, and been happy with the balance that it showed in its universe, then shame on you for critisizing others for not likeing it the way YOU like it.

so does anyone know yet... is snake really wolverine?

Too bad Spehiroth is second only to Kefka in the "lamest villain ever" category. the hell you say

its all in the delivery, macross's delivery of "spirita" as general J-pop weirdness doesn't work for me. and, here we go again, i didn't see anything remotely resembling spirita the way it's represented in later serise in the original SDF. SDF was about cultures meeting, not sophisticated life energys and song magic. rinse repeat. bad kitty.

don't do that.

they really needed to come up with something that looked specifically good on the 18 and not tried to force something designed for the 14 to fit on it. my 3 cents

i have a 03 tiburon. anyway, i see nothing wrong with this helmet specially since its just a repaint.

there is so much in here that i just DID NOT wan tto know about you people.. ew.

i hate it when everyone bitches about everyone bitching, its such a bitch when that happens

i don't think THAT is going to happen If this set is in the 50 dollar range i'll probably get it for my low viz, i'm getting very poor... nosecone on or off? i'll take "off" if it looks better.