GENERIC RAGE

Dude, judging from everything you've said you haven't even autocrossed. "Rough" courses? The two SCCA SoloII regions in southern California (Fresno and San Diego) both race at very smooth venues, so I have no idea what you're talking about. As for narrow courses, once again you're showing that you've had no experience autocrossing. Cars much larger than yours that have much more difficulty turning are commonplace. Off the top of my head I can think of a wide-bodied GT350, numerous Camaros, and at least one or two late-60's Mustang fastbacks. I also fail to see how heavily modified suspension would be a hidnrance racing, as there are plenty of cars that have almost no suspension travel and yet still do fine at the SF region's questionably bumpy courses. You'd have to drive my car to understand. The handling of the car is pretty insane as at is, it's very difficult to keep it under control on even relatively smooth surfaces. I can't understand why my car is the way it is, and I've seen identical ones run, but my grip limits are razor sharp. There's hardly any margin of error, understeer and oversteer are always very close. The car also has a very strong tendency to understeer, then snap into over very quickly. My car always feels like it's skating on ice, even on brand new Azenis. That's a large part of why I put the wing on the car, in the hopes that it'll improve the stablilty of the car at speed. It is true, I haven't been to any of the SCCA events, only to sort of "open track" car club type events. Maybe the setup is sufficiently different that it'll be better at an SCCA event. Post pictures of this wild stalion, I think I can diagnos it from a billion miles away (I'm on Mars--the furthest I could get from ASSCLOWNS). What it sounds like is you slammed the car and you are running out of suspension travel, so either you are bottoming out on your bumpstops in the rear (snap oversteer) or in the front (wicked push.) Let me guess--the car MAD pushes if you enter a corner just a *little* too hot? And I bet the rear end gets all squirrely as soon as you lift off mid-corner or maybe hit some rough pavement. Sounds like a-hole suspension setup, 101. OR! And this is very possible--its that you've setup a car way too stiff for your tires. As any ROAD RACER should know, your suspension is only as good as your tires, and super-ultra-stiff suspensions only really work well with r-compound and slick tires. With any sort of street-compound tire, you need lots and lots of negative camber with traditional strut-type suspensions to make use of the limited amounts of grip. Only with ultra-sticky race tires can you start to use huge spring rates and creative damping. It sounds like you are probably running street-tires with a super-tight suspension. No wonder its hard to drive. Your road racing friends haven't told you that that stuff doesn't work? Just to drive a beaten point home: What you are doing is *NOT* ROAD RACING. YOU ARE NOT A ROAD RACER. You have done a NON COMPETITIVE TRACK DAY. There were *NO* timers. Passing was *NOT* allowed during corners. That is NOT RACING. And as requested, track-like pictures. Unfortunately, this is only a TRACK DAY, I'm not ROAD RACING Through the esses--about 90mph in the wet. That's 30mph above the safe-autocrosser speed Took first in class that day.

That car indeed sounds fantastic. I recently inherited an '86 CRX Si, and am going to sell it soon. Great little cars, the older hatchbacks. New Honda's are great too--just a bit more grown up. Those old sub-2000lbs cars are a hoot, though.

WHO ARE THESE 'ROAD RACERS' THAT ENJOY MAKING FUN OF AUTOCROSS? You are driving at either a *track day* or *drift day*... do you see RACING in either of those? In fact, if you did, you'd be putting yourself in major financial risk since insurance doesn't cover 'timed events.' I'm the only one here who claims to actually *know* a road racer, (Yellowlightman knows her as well. He might have even made out with her, I don't know, he makes out with lots of chicks), and they simply don't make fun of autocrossers. In fact, the stereotype I hear most road racers laughing about is the stereotype of the DE driver or drift day driver calling himself a *racecar driver* (substitute 'road racer' for a more JDM flare) when he goes out on track twice a year in his street car. I can't believe you still think you have something to your argument, you are making less and less sense the deeper you go. Its important to get a car out on track, that is for certain--but for the love of God don't use it as a bolster for your dwindling self-esteem. Autocrossers are out there because they love it, not so they can go home, get on IRC and start a room called "all roadracers check in!" and brag about all their sweet 'battles.' We do it because its the cheapest form of *competitive* motorsports this side of drag racing, and to polish and hone their skills against other drivers. This thread is like a punching bag for me. I'm a nice guy on all the other forums I'm part of. Its rare I get to confront such blatant ignorance.

a) I signed up on this forum to be a crusader of truth and justice to car prejudice everywhere b) WTF is macross That being said, Yellowlightman is right on except I think the joke is that drifting, because of its subjective nature, is 'the FIGURE SKATING' of motorsports. And I figure its probably closer to the 'Barney on Ice' end of ice skating. In the Olympic stuff, at least people get emotional and stuff. Anyways-- I would like to preface this with saying I have no problem with organized drifting. I think D1 is an excellent addition to the motorsports scene since anything that helps motorsports grow is probably a positive thing, and tail-out driving is a whole lot of fun. If I was to go on and say "drifting sucks, you suck," I'd be no better then all the pencil-dick mouth breathers that make fun of 'parking lot racing.' What is it that bores you about autocross? Is it the fact that autocrossers are forced to deal with turns at a density SEVEN TIMES GREATER then formula one racers? Or maybe the fact that its timed, and therefor it exposes your inadaquacies as a driver? Either one works for me. I've driven on 'real tracks' too. Sears Point, actually--one of the most technical (club racer's words, not mine) in the United States. I had about two years (bout 45 events ) of autocross experience under my belt before I hit that gorgeous slithering pavement and it took me about 6.4 seconds to exceed this mythical 60mph barrier you speak of. I went on to hit 110mph in the 'esses,' and passed all cars in the beginner groups and all cars in the intermediate groups. One was a Porsche Turbo. Does that prove anything? Nope. Do I enjoy saying I passed a Porsche Turbo in a stock-motored Street-Touring X prepared '95 325is? Oh hell yeah! Not only did I pass the Porsche Turbo, I PASSED MY G'DDAM INSTRUCTOR on our last session out. She was in a Miata. Did it give me a big head? Nope. She was having allignment issues, and I know deep down she is a far superior driver then myself. In fact, shes driven ITS FC's for a couple years, done a few endurance races (ITB Mk2 GTi in the 25 hour Thunderhill is her most recent long-hour race), and currently has entered a sponsorship to drive a Grand-Am BMW Z3 Coupe. Serious stuff. And you know what she has said about autocrossers? I got my 'drift' on that track day, as well. The first few sessions were on a soaking wet track. Water plus tire build up equals an extremely slippery surface, and more then once I found my car 20-40 degrees sideways, giving more then one full turn of opposite lock to having to catch it. Where did I learn the car-control skills to allow me to keep the car going in the direction I wanted to? You guessed it, autocross. So... I don't know which Initial-D-thumping friends you are talking to when you guys make jokes about autocrossers being the grannies of the track world, because its a stereotype I have *never* heard before. Anyways, just think about what you are writing and who might be reading it. I doubt you are as ignorant as you sound, and you just figured nobody would call you on it. I come from the San Francisco Region of the SCCA, a region notorious for creating more national champions then *any region in the United States.* We take this very serious, and the thought of some drifting punk thinking he is better then me because he is good at losing control of his car makes my blood boil.