Keith

they actually did something very different with the intro credits. They used a textless version, & soft dvd supped all the credits in (meaning you can turn them off & watch just the animation from the intro). The end credits are the regular Japanese credits, with the trasnlation for them being in the dvd menu. There however is no japanese credit version of hte intro included.

The new SFX don't match any of the SFX in any of the other episodes (or macross for that matter), like them all you want, but they don't fit. And Dog Fight definately fit the 4th episode better than breakout, I mean come on. But seriously, the English version of Voices (which I believe was the actual topic of this) doesn't even begin to make sense. It's a song Myung wrote in high school....about the events that take place in the OVA 7 years later? Hell no! It doesn't even fit the title of the song.

It's pretty much a straight VHS dump from the old Manga VHS release of the movie edition. All the eyecatches seem to be there, all the episode titles are there, the intro's & endings however are cut between episodes (only the beginning & end one are there, along with the regular inbetween episodes end credits following the final episode end credits). All of U.S. Renditions/Manga's Marduk language hard subtitles are still there (as well as the hard song subtitles), which causes problems in a couple instances when they don't follow quite in time with the Japanese dialogue & regular soft Japanese subtitles. Overall, I'd say it's a better quality job than Macross Plus Movie Edition, though still not as good as it could be. I doubt there's any better (non-R2) release out there, and since there's no footage missing, might as well pick it up.

I'm sure giant fighting robot sounds better to you than "gundam," but it doesn't change the fact that one is the name, and the other is not. Besides which, it's been a while since I've watched all of Zeta, but I do seem to recall the "bunch" name specifically regarding colony grouping, not specific colony numbering. All the more reason the re-name doesn't fit.

I'm definately sticking to my guns on this issue. Bandai's dubtitling choices are bizarre at best. Changing Thirty Bunch to "Colony Thirty".....IT'S IN ENGLISH ALREADY DAMNIT! There are just far too many instances of what's really being said swapped out with some...dub style atlernative. At that point it stops being a trasnlation, and starts being a re-write. Say what you will about HK subs, but most I've seen have done far better at conveying the basic's of what's going on than this dubtitle script. Having already seen the HK Zeta set, I can tell you I was considerably less angered by the translation there. Good sentence structure & spelling are fine & all, but they don't mean anything when they don't actually convey what's being said.

Sure I am, I'm just never happy about poo that's intentionally botched. How can you be happy about dubtitles? The whole point in watching something subtitled is to not have to deal with fast & loose american "re-interpretations. Because this is the worst case of dubtitling since Wing. The 0079 movies, CCA, and aside from the whole "zeek & feddie" thing, 0083 & 08th MS team were nowehre near this bad. This isn't a mainstrream release, and even if it was, there's still a dub for those who want it. The subtitles should be left alone.

I'm sorry, but dubtitles are "never" ok. It shows a severe lack of regard towards people who actually want to watch the show subtitled, as well as a huge lack of effort in translating. The whole point in watching something subtitled is to not have to put up with this poo. Better than HK's? Debatable. Better than raw? Again debatable. How is a mistranslation better than no translation? In both, you're not getting what's "really" going on. Considering this is a limited edition set, with the main audience being people who care about such things, it only stands to reason that if the intro's aren't going to be there, the freakin' translation should be accurate.

The subtitle script is closer to the english dub than it is to a literal japanese translation. Even I with next to no knowledge of the Japanese language (everything I learned is from anime) am picking out errors. It's also been noted over at the AoD forums.

And the next major problem with the Zeta set.....WING QUALITY DUBTITLES! DAMN YOU BANDAI, DAMN YOU TO HELL!!!!

Meh, I wouldn't be suprrised if Navy & Air Force volunteering dropped noticably. I know the only thing that would ever get me to join a military service would be to fly an F-14...

Just got mine today, awesome box....but that intro just doesn't fit. Those who have never seen Zeta will be the luckiest. But the piece they used, especially with all the shitty sound effects thrown in.....it's been turned into the robotech intro!

There was a big discussion about this when people started noticing some of ADV's dvd's going bad over at the AoD forums. It was decided that storing them upright (vertically) was better for tham then horizontally (laying down), and sotring them horizontally put more stress on the various layers, causing them to seperate in time, letting air in, and tarnishing the data layer.

Collecting limited edition items are cool & all, but if it's not something you're going to use, why bother. Life's too short to stockpile wastes of stuff, enjoy what you have while you have it.

Both are the exact same ending. Consider one a quick & dirty bare bones version, and the other a grand theatrical venture.

Meh, Macross had a pretty good release run. 3 years is far more than we could ever have hoped.

Bah , double post.

Am I the only one who thinks Yoda looks a bit like Samuel L. Jackson there?

To be fair, people did make a big deal out of manga screwing up the audio on hte 4th episode. But again, to those that don't think this business with Zeta is a legitimate gripe, just think about what would happen if Bebop or Escaflowne were released with out their themes. While I feel bandai did make up for it by including the booklet, pencil sharpeners, poster's etc (note that all of these items only appeared after the delay), it would have been a hell of a lot better if they came clean from the start.

I won't be cancelling my set, but damn. It may not mean much to some of you, but a properly done intro can set you up for a good series, and Zeta's definately did that.

GOD DAMN BANDAI!

http://img96.exs.cx/img96/7505/12hl.jpg http://img96.exs.cx/img96/6535/26de.jpg http://img96.exs.cx/img96/710/35jl.jpg http://img96.exs.cx/img96/618/45wk.jpg http://img96.exs.cx/img96/7073/b3ya.jpg Someone at AoD posted some individual case art pic's.

Anyway, Zero & 7 are awesome. Next topic?

I've always had this theory that if given enough time, even the most dedicated blow hards would talk themselves to death. I guess I've always been wrong on that. Just because you don't care to pay attention to what I say, does not mean it's devoid of value. ---------- yeah i'm a hardcore fan of the serise. NOT macross as a whole. i'm a hardcore sdf fan. And being a hardcore fan of the series, it shouldn't matter to you what the content is of the franchise as a whole, as by your admission here, you only concerned with the content of the original. don't get them mixed up. Considering that it's all part of one larger story, there's not much to mix up. SDF Macross & Macross 7 are one story, as are Zero & Plus. nyway, i can't penetrait that wall of text so i'm just gonna say you win keith, weather i feel your right or not, you just clearly want it more. It's not a matter of right or wrong, just clarity. No ones forcing you to discuss anything, but your lack of care in the matter makes me wonder why you attempted to at all. I will listen to his song, but it will be on mute. Basara transcends sound! -------------------- Because, my dear, you are a bonafide fool if you think that Myung's music reaching Isamu is spiritia (which it sounds like this is where you are taking this). You're even more foolish if you believe otherwise. Sharon gave Myung no com channel to Isamu, he showed no indication of hearing anything at all that was going on between the two of them. Add to that the many cannons that were firing off at Isamu, noise from the YF-19, airtight canopy, etc, and there's absolutely no way the sound of her song would be able to reach him. Add to that the fact that Plus & 7 were both developed at the same time, share many story concepts in common, etc, then you have no grounds to be calling anyone a fool. Furthermore Guld didn't have "supernatural" powers that can not be explained. I hope you are familiar with the definition of the term supernatural. There was nothing supernatural about the YF-21 functionality. The mechanics are more or less laid out for it and so it's hadrly anything mysterious and miraculous. Neither is an AI trying it emulate human emotions (a concept rehashed a million times in entertainment media). You need to get a grip and just accept the fact that Macross Plus really made no mention of anything like that. There's nothing supernatural about controlling an inadimate object with your mind? Are you familiar with the definition of supernatural? If by more or less "laid out" you mean "this machine connects the human brain with a variable fighter...tada!" Then you also need to familiarize yourself with the term "laid out." And despite A.I.'s taking on human characteristics being a common theme in sci fi, that doesn't describe the specifics of how such a thing can occur in reality. Or perhaps you hold the secret to giving machines souls & aren't sharring? But back ot the Guld thing, why is it that you can accept that a man can control a complex machine with his mind, but you can't accept that a man can control energy with his mind? One is not a far leap from the other. I have noticed some serious Macross Plus denial going on here though, and you specifically need to get a grip. Just because something happens with fiction involving machine explanations, does not mean something happening in fiction regarding biological explanations is less valid. In the specific case of Plus, many of the same things going on in 7 occur, again just using people tied to machines instead of people relying on inner ki. For the record, he's listening to me (unlike to you based on his last repsonse to you) because I don't write a novel of empty text trying to prove I'm right for the sake of wanting to be right by reading too much into things that don't even exist. You are such a silly fanboy at times. I'm only responding to you cuz you are like a baby's toy that's fun chewing on then throwing away when it's become boring. Just for the record, ignoring what someone says & demeaning it does not make you right, just lazy. Nor does calling names & ignoring the topic make you a good debater. EDIT: It's not too late to look up the definition of the word supernatural and even posting it. At least give yourself some dignity, man. Or I could just do an imitation of you, "la la la, you're stupid, la la la." But I'd never sink to that level. -------------------- jem i agree completely however that the yf-21 isn't supernatural at all. had the 21 been endowed with like... the SOUL of gulds mother or something and THAT was why he could fly it with his mind, then that would be supernatural. as it is. the 21 is presented as a machine with an advanced brainwave reader.. stuff like this actually exists now for quadropalegics and people with other muscle problems so that they can operate a mouse and use a computer with out useing their hands. anyway... And humans exist spontaniously in the universe, don't require industrial manufacturing, or fabrication. They also have brains which function on electical & chemical impulses, and have been scientifically proven to have the power to effect others moods with the imposition of their own. So by your random non-descript science, nothing in 7 is supernatural either. -------------------- The obvious answer is #2 and still there IS NOTHING supernatural about it. She emulated what Myung felt. It was said over and over again that Sharon's emotional progarmmig was never complete so she was never really able to feel anything on her own. However, she did tap into Myung's emotions and declared that Myung's feleings were now all hers and that Myung was left with nothing. Nothing to second guess. Nothing supernatural about that. Ah, and also tapped into Myungs desire to hypnotisze masses of poeple, hijack military hardware, & kill Isamu.... And naturally, Myung would have a much betterfundimental understanding of Sharon's level of awareness, than say the loon who created her... EDIT: Love isn't supernatural either it may seem so to specific fanboys who have never experienced it. Is that the only arguing tactic you guys have? I could bring up that there's some random rule around here not to demean other members, but I'd rather pose the question of why you're even bothering. This is afterall a Macross fan forum, where assumedly Macross fans would conglomerate. If you're not a fan of the material, then why even bother? And for that matter, why attack other fans for being (dare I say it) fans of the material? You're the one with the problem here, not me. --------- I couldn't disagree more. If that was the case, every movie with an excellent story would be a blockbuster hit, and every action movie would be a bomb. There are other factors that go into a show/movie that also increase or dectract from the entertainment value. I'm sure you don't need me to provide you with examples. Your supposition being that they are all good stories. A good story can be told with animation, live action, ice cream sticks, light bright, etc. A poorly told story is poor irregardless of the medium used. With that said, not liking visual presentation has nothing to do with the value of the story being told in it. It has been many years since I have seen it, but to my recollection it actually is a closer adaptation of the novels than Peter Jackson's versions. Are you saying that if the animated had been completed it would have been a better than the movies (assuming that a closer adaptation is the better story)? Would there be no chance that even with a worse version of the story people might like Jackson's versions more anyway? Closer to the novels???? Go rent the animated version & come back to this topic.

Direct quote reply's help keep everything in perspective. By that reasoning any level of peace talk or discussion that's attempting to turn an enemy into an ally is psychological warfare. You're being far too wide open with your interpretation. Psychological warfare by its nature requires the intent to attack another by such means. Except that its role hasn't changed all that much at all. It still maintains the same position it always has, though its prominence has grown somewhat. The Macross sequels (& prequel) have done what all good sequels & prequels should do. Maintain what came before, while expanding upon it. I'm intent on proving it, because that's the way it is. There are no fundimental concepts in Plus, 7, or Zero, that aren't extensions of what was already present in the original series. There are the story seeds for it, and that is enough. The mistake is yours, not mine. Macross was an anti-militaristic series. And someone who is turned off by a drumkit in a fighter needs to lighten up. Hell, even current military hardware allows for the broadcast of music to amp up the soldiers (see George W's operatioin nuke the Iraqis for Oil). That's a lot of supposition to imply that you represent the hardcore Macross fanbase. Besides which, Kawamori never said he wasn't making much of an attempt to make the series "mesh." What he specifically said was that he wasn't going to be anal about Zero's end & SDF TV's beginning. What we can construe that to mean now that the series is finished, is that there won't be a direct tye in (i.e. showing the Macross, or showing how Roy went from Mayan to South Atalia). Hardcore Macross fans aren't in it for the military hardware & battles, because Hardcore Macross fans know that those were never the centerpieces to the story to begin with. Who are you to say what was & wasn't intended by the creaters? Considering the very same creaters "did" lead things into the direction they have gone, have never alluded to any other series of events occuring, and have yet to truly contradict anything which has come before, It's pretty safe to assume that things are going as they were intended to. Unless of course you have some top secret Nue story outline for the original 50+ episode run of the series, but then that would be the burden of your proof. You act like everything is Macross II, which isn't the case. The problem would seem to be that you have a misconception of what Macross is to begin with. If you want a dry military series, look elsewhere. So if I want to be open minded, I must be close minded? Go back & watch the series again. It's not about big flashy explosions, death & destruction, trying to defeat the enemy, or any of that nonsense. While those are components to the story, the central core has always been, and continues to be, the power of peoples emotions to reach out to others & move their hearts through music. Macross has succeeded in maintaining that theme, as well as a well fighting story canon. The mechanism was "Sara." Whether she realized she had the ability or not, her power extended to the point of being able to levitate objects. Her emotions. The music isn't being used to tell the story, it's just a thematic component of it. And while liking the muisc does help, not liking it doesn't detract away from the story being told. Hell, with a diversity of musical styles in general, there are always bound to be some styles that some don't like. Here's my question, do you not believe that an alternate control scheme as shown in 7 is not physically capable of existing? Its dynamic is clearly shown to be similar to standard, just with a different visual presentation. It's not like the U.N. Spacy junked everything & replaced it with the Kai designs. That's my entire point. The Kai Valkyries weren't intended to be normal, they weren't military use Valkyries, and they weren't used for fighting. The precident set is what the Zentradi have been shown to have, and what the EVIL have been shown to be (i.e. a far more advanced level of Protoculture technology. The AFOS is a perfect represntation of that more advanced level shown in 7. Macross 7 also maintains it. The colony fleet, & all protective craft of that colony (save for the Kai Valkyries) use the same mlitaristic look of past Macross series. It's not like everything was suddenly made out of bubblegum or something. Besides which, the nature of a (good) sequel is to grow & expand upon what came before. With over 30 years of technological advancement between the two shows, there are naturally going to be some new aspects. Whether you like them or not is moot, as long as you accept them as part of the story. I just don't see the dramatic differences you guys are claiming between SDF TV & 7. I can easily see the direct connections & progressions between them. Choice perhaps? Considering that humans are the inheriters to the Protoculture, was the technology truly that alien? Nor is it strange that humans would slowly move along the same routes of progression as the Protoculture? Does it not being your style of music prevent you from enjoying the story? I don't know, I find being blown up by the AFOS far more annoying (from a character in the story aspect) than a request to listen to a song. If everything was there in SDF M TV, then it would have been a significantly longer series, without need for a sequel. The nature again of sequels to grow & expand upon what came before. If you want to see nothing except for repeating storylines, I suggest you watch Gundam (mind you I like Gundam, but it is literally a continuing cycle of the same basic story setup). They're superficial in that they're only surface elements, i.e. not liking someone because they're black or asian, instead of listening to what they have to say. If a story is good, doesn't matter how it's told. Take the Bakshi LOTR interpretation for instance. Terribly told version of the story, which would have been much more acceptable had it been told more accurately despite the lower grade of animation. Nah, Lucas would never even hint to the slaughtering of children, he doesn't have the nuts anymore. That's too bad. But here's another question. Despite your dislike of the asthetic aspects of the show, how did you feel about the depth put into the history of the Protoculture conflict? How do you feel about the core aspect of Macross being people sharing their emotions with one another through music? You can't do that without playing muisc afterall. No, more like not putting all of your eggs in one basket. In addition to having a defending force, also having a peace negotiation gruop. Aside from Myung's ability to reach Isamu's heart with her song when there's no way he would be able to audibly hear her? Or Guld's ability to control the YF-21 with his mind? A computer which can think for itself & feel emotions? None of that seems superhuman to you? -------------------- Thinking isn't a supernatural power, but thinking & controlling many aspects of an advanced variable fighter with a device that connects mind & machine most certainly is. As is Myung's showing of spiritia signs, and Sharon's ability to live despite being a machine (i.e. for a machien to have a soul) supernatutal. -------------------- While Plus wasn't concieved as a Macross series, the only real aspects of it that we know were specifically a part of the AVF story was the competition between test pilots. The rest howver could very easily be Macross specific. Why wouldn't he, he's even responding to you.

I just don't think you're going to find an 08th MS team style story in Macross.