I agree with you JBO. However, my point is that the character Basara is not believable.
Keith, I know Basara is special to you. That is painfully obvious.
Someone's gotta have counterpoint here, as the character is getting far too unfair a rap.
WTF?
I did not express anything of that sort. Keith, you are reading into what I am posting. I thought I had made it clear that I agreed with the concept of "war is evil" and "give peace a chance." No sane person desires to kill people. Soldiers do so because they have to. I realize in the case of M7 that Basara is not a soldier and is only the lead guitarist for fire bomber.
Which reminds me.
And yet you constantly complain that because he doesn't shoot, his flying skill is somehow lessoned.
How the hell did Basara get clearance to launch his fighter into a combat zone in the first place?
Are we supposed to assume there are no regulations concerning aerospace traffic on the colony ships.
"Project-M" Through coincidence, both Dr. Chiba & Ray had similar idea's regarding a solution to potential future conflicts. Ray through knowing Kinryu got in contact with Max & got clearance to come aboard City 7 & train Basara to fly. Max knowing Chiba got the custom hardware built. Basara under "Project-M" had clearance to come & go as he pleased onto the battlefield.
I am positive this issue is not addressed in any episode. Certainly not in Ep. 1, when, if I'm not mistaken, Gamlin threatens to have Basara arrested for entering the combat zone and tapping into the military channel but nothing ever comes of it. Then in episode 3, when Gupernich orders Gigil to attack the M7 fleet (as a decoy) and in the middle of the Supernova concert, woooosh! Off goes Basara to fly into the battle zone, and then this type of crap continues for much of the series.
It's actually addressed amongst several episodes, though most notably the one in which Sound Force is officially established. And while Gamlin complains about Basara being on the battlefield in several episodes, he is silenced by Kinryu, & instructed to leave Basara alone. At no point in time was Max unaware of Basara's presence or purpose.
That is total and complete B.S..
Nope, you just weren't paying attention.
I'd like to see some Basara wanna-be just try and hack military communications going on over in Iraq. I'll bet his or her ass would be in cuffs and off to some undisclosed location faster than you can say "Bomba!"
Not if he was sanctioned by those in charge. Basara didn't just spontaniously come across that Valkyrie, it was given to Ray by Max.
I am fully aware that "its just a TV show, a cartoon." Though I sometimes wonder about some of us here at MW.
You're the one with the passionate argument against it...
Ace pilots like Capt. J.D. McConnell Jr. (16 kills) and Maj. J Jabara (15 kills), of Korean War/Mig alley fame, survived by shooting down their opponents before they were shot down. As did the other 37 American aces of Korea. A total of 792 MIG-15s were shot down, for only a loss of 78 F-86 sabers. If shooting has nothing to do with flying in a aerial battlespace, than explain why so many planes get shot down?
So you're saying piloting skill has absolutely nothing to do with not getting hit?
Guarunteed no. Have a much better chance of making it, yes. Many a consciencious objector met his end in Vietnam for choosing not to fight (approximately 3 out of 5. Source, U.S. Army Hickman report, dated 1975 A.D., on the usefullness of draftees.).
And how many of those 3 out of 5 had stealth avoidence skill the likes of say Solid (or Naked) Snake?
Keith, if you can not figure out why shooting back at an enemy in an aerial engagment will greatly enhance your chances of survival, then you need to take some time away from Macross and spend some serious time researching this subject (that is not meant as an insult). The military channel is a good place to start, the show "Wings at War", where actual military pilots are interviewed, should be of great help to you (seriously, no BS).
Let me try putting this another way. You can have the biggest & best weapons on the battlefield, but if you can't fly worth a damn, they're not going to do you much good once someone outflies you & takes you out. I'm fully aware that "fewer" enemies equates to less of a possability of getting shot. But better avoidence also adds to survivability. If you can dodge, then you won't die is the general argument.
worry about you Keith.
If Kawamori had chosen Basara to be an honorable warrior, fighting only when he has to, then that is what Basara would have been. The outcome of the story would then have been determined by Kawamori. If it meant Basara firing a reactive weapon into Gupernich, and him being destroyed, then that is how it would have ended. Sometimes I wonder if you understand that. Sometimes you write posts that make me think you are "living the experience."
Kawamori chose to potray an enemy that couldn't be defeated by weapons, one much stronger with more advanced technology. Fighting them wasn't a winning scenario, only death or enslavement would have resulted had Basara not been there. You can mock me all you want, but you're the one who missed the point of the story. They tried firing a reaction weapon into Gepelnitch, he just handed it right back to them & took out the Stargazer. The porpose was to show a no win situation if fighting would be all you could muster to do.
The same can be said for SDF Macross. If Kawamori had decided to pull a Nishizaki (Space Cruiser Yamato) and had the Macross blow BoDolza's command ship away with one fell swoop (like the Yamato's wave motion gun) then that is how the series would have ended. I agree he made the story more interesting (and original) by having Lynn Minmei confuse the Zentran with her music and a Kiss (though I dislike the whole "singing solution" as it was portrayed in M7) and thus writing the story so the Zentran that had been exposed to the Earth's "culture" joined with the SDF Macross against BoDolza (who as we know was going to kill them all anyway, so it was a Kill or be killed situation for them).
Bodolza was going to kill them anyway because they had been tainted with idea's that would have lead them to peace. If it was simply a matter of the song & kiss, Bodolza would have committed suicide when he first captured Hikaru & Misa. It wasn't the culture shock that was the threat (as it was even shown to be easily gotten used to), it was the idea's that were spreading amongst Britai's fleet.
If Kawamori had done the Yoshiyuki Tomino thing and made Basara a civilian caught up in the war like Amuro Ray, who was forced to fight, rather than willingly fly into combat, without fighting, I would find this character more believable.
And if that had been the scenario, then everyone would have died and or been enslaved by the Protodevelin. You're missing the pivotal aspect of the story. Fighting isn't always going to save your life, especially when you're up against someone stronger than you.
As for Captain Herlock, he kills his enemies, period. I have seen all (except the new series)of the anime of Captain Herlock, from the 70s show to Arcadia of my youth, and his various appearances in 999. The character Herlock is nothing like the Basara character.
Harlock kills because he choses to, he lives his life by his own standards. That is the similarity in the characters. If Harlock decided to just fall in line with the most convenient scenario, he never would have become a pirate.
I went and watched the first 4 episodes again last night (I don't have time to watch all 49 again). I realize that it is not so much the Basara character's music or beliefs, its that he can survive so many battles without getting shot down/destroyed. It's just ludicrous.
Max has never been shot down (unless of course you count DYRL, but that was a mutual defeat), therefore he must be just as ludicrus a character.
However, I am not trying to convince you of whether or not the M7 fleet would have died without Basara's influence. That is acting like M7 is some kind of actual event. No, I am trying to relate to you that Mr. Shoji Kawamori could have made the character Basara more believable.
Your account of believability is specifically tied in with your not being able to accept that someone can fly, not shoot, and still survive in a battle. You can dodge a bullet without returning fire.
It's not. I was picking on Basara as a Jimi Hendrix wanna-be. You know, "Space-Hippie." I like Jimi Hendrix's music, so I guess I was not being fair to Mr. Hendrix. Now that I think of it, it's insulting to compare Hendrix to Basara. Jimi is far better than that. My apologies to any Hendrix fans here.
It's a fair character type comparision, though you might as well throw John Lennon in as well. I just see your insistence that survival in flying equates to killing. You refuse to even comprehend the concept of evasion.
Well, that is your opinion Keith.
Mine is that Kawamori should redo Macross 7 and make it more "realistic" by either eliminating Basara from it completely or changing his character type to a more Kodai or Amuro Ray type character.
We already had that with Hikaru, Macross 7 is taking things to the next level. Kawamori should be commended for not falling into the same old trappings, and actually coming up with a character who sticks to his convinctions. And hell, if you still miss that type of character in 7, there's Gamlin.
In closing (since I feel like I'm writing a persuasive essay), I'd like to finish by saying that other than Superpilot/musician/political activist/special spiritia generating-Basara and the Autobot look of the Soundforce VFs, I like M7.
You just miss the entire purpose of it...
