Keith

I think you might be mistaking what your ingrained ideal of what Macross should be with what everyone's ingrained ideal of Macross should be. I was just tossing out some opinions but you've got it in your head that I'm suggesting we torch the series. Nope, I think you're mistaking your idea that everything should be updated to suit whatever current fads are in place, with the idea that things should be left as they were made and appreciated for what they are. Some people do care about the dubs, there are some people who hate reading subtitles and hearing a language they don't understand, they just won't do it no matter what you do. And even if they violate some sense of the purity of the show for you or other guys, every dollar they spend counts as much as ours. Those people are stupid, and shouldn't be watching a series that was made in another language if they don't want to hear that language & read subtitles. I think you love the Macross franchise. I think the other guys here do too. I know I do. We don't have to agree on everything, all that matters is that every DVD/toy/merch you buy helps to support the franchise we enjoy and vice versa. As long as cash registers are ringing and more ways for us to enjoy Macross come out of it, thats all the agreement two fans really need for a series they love. To the contrary, if a series has finished its run, had some enjoyable quality stuff come out, and has pretty much had its story wrapped up in a satisfactory manner, then there's no need for constant sequels & spin-off's to keep those registers ringing. Sometimes enough is enough, and too much is unnecessary. As for riling people up, dude you've been gunning for me the past few days in this thread and a few other threads. I'd wager if I started another thread with a less than popular opinion ( I seem to have quite a few these days), you'd gun for me there too. If you want to bust my balls for being the new guy, then so be it. If you want to flame me for calling you on it, so be it. Its one thing to lay out bait, its another to accuse a dude of what you are doing yourself. I haven't been gunning for you, I've just dissagreed with damn near everything you've said. It's nothing personal. If you're too sensative about your opinions to take criticism, then don't share them. Otherwise, stop whining & stick to the topic! That's just the nature of these things, not everyone is going to agree with you, doesn't automatically mean they hate your existence.

Sountrack licensing issue is only going to last so long, the music isn't getting any newer, the demand for it isn't getting any higher, Victor will knock down that price eventually, and hell, for all we know, they already have. As for animation quality...have you turned on your TV lately? 7 still far outshines most junk people try to pass off as animation, and hell, it was a lot more consistant than the original series was. Market...pure paranoia, people will buy it because it's Macross, it has giant robots, it has J-Pop, and robotech fans have nothing else to buy. It'll find its market.

Don't blame me if you can't put 2 & 2 together

Because nobody would buy it. 338008[/snapback] You know, just for that, if it ever does come out, I'm buying it FOR you!

Should we start taking bets now on whether this new "series" will fall to the exact same fate that the Sentinels did?

That's not true at all. Victory & Turn A are great examples of Gundam without Amuro & Char. Hell, Zeta is a great example of Gundam without Amuro & Char, while they were "present," they were far from the focus.

I was actually gonna check out the other 6 disc set that's out, but it's just a condensed rip of the FX set anyway, so looks like that's the only version that's available now.

I still don't see the huge problem some have with DYRL being placed as a movie within the continuity. It creates no canon conflicts, doesn't kill your mother, and is still a pretty unique method of handling the problem. Hell, it's even referenced in Plus, be it ever so briefly, when Myung goes to the room (in the Macross) where Sharon's CPU is housed, which bears a striking resemblance to the room Hikaru slapped Minmay before the climax in DYRL, Sharon's first words to her were "So you remembered."

Changes to the score? Stop trying to rile people up, as no one has ever said that was going to happen. And seriously, even if it was just in the dub, "it's just a dub" no one who cares about a show cares about dubs anyway. I personally don't think Macross needs a huge fan grabbing revival. At this point, if Nue wants to toss out a new OVA or movie every few years or so, then that's fine. If not, that's fine too. As far as I'm concerned, the story is told.

Meh, awesome movie, new pinacle of CG, and whether you knew what was going on or not, a sh!tload of fun.

Actually, from what I understand, Tseng dying was apparently a translation error. And I'm of the school that never subscribed to the theory that all humanity was whiped out at the end of the game, didn't make sense then, doesn't make sense now. Midgar being reclaimed by nature is one thing, but do you honestly think Aerith would have joined with the life stream just to kill everyone off? Hell no. Besides which, there wouldn't have been a pointi n showing an escape scene, they could have just as easily sufficed with everyone accepting their fate inside the crater. Add to that the children's laughter at the end of the credits, etc, and I honestly don't think we were meant to believe that the planet killed everyone off to save itself.

If you "really" want to see a dark series, go check out Now And Then, Here And There.

Question, have you seen DYRL or Zero? That's about as close as you're going to get with "re-inventing" the franchise, and that's as close as it "should" get. It's a classic series, admired by people who enjoyed what it was for its time. The franchise as a whole should be admired for the minimal amount of "re-inventing" that goes on in it. If you want a franchise with something new & in style every couple of years, check out Gundam.

I think the major issue here is that you see Guld as truly being superhuman whlie being attached to the YF-21 (which I just don't see enough proof of), and I just see him as being a normal human pilot with the opportunities for faster reaction times. Say for instance had Guld been set against Max, who was shown to have a natural/supernatural pilotting ability & awareness, Guld would still lose in my eyes.

We weren't talking about robotech, he said he brought up the issue (about Mospeada, not robotech) over there. Not even remotely the case in Mospeada. I didn't say I dissagrree'd with the plausability of the Mospeada explanation, just that I found their choice to be (intentionally) funny, as a commentary on humans that they didn't even "expet" for there to be ozone. Miscalculating atmospheric conditions, especially when being away from the planet & having no idea about its revival is quite plausable.

A. There were no mental limters. Just a physical one, which is present even on modern real-world aircraft, as I understand things. Is it ever said there were no mental limiters? Stands to reason that in addition to limitations speed for physical safety, there'd be limiters on mental reaction time with the BDI/BCS to protect the pilots mind from overload. B. Guld did what was necessary to beat a foe that was functioning on a totally diffrent level than him and Isamu. I didn't say it wasn't necessary, I said it had more to do with recklessness than it did skill. He didn't defeat the Ghost because he was a better pilot than it, he defeated it because he threw away all caution for self preservation. I am going to emphasize this over and over again, because it is patently absurd to think that a normal fighter plane with conventional controls would perform anywhere NEAR the level of an AI drone, simply becaue the drone doesn't have the soft juicy center underneath the smooth crispy outside. And as shown, the Ghost-X9 wasn't invulnerable to suicide attack. There's no reason to believe its avionics were vastly superior to either the YF-19 or YF-21, as shown, when push came to shove, it couldn't escape. There's also no reason to believe that Isamu couldn't have taken it out had he decided to give his life in doing so. Nothing but conjecture, while Guld's BDI/BCS gave him more time to control the YF-21 when his body was destroyed, he was also an inferior pilot to Isamu (and even aside from that, different people react differently to situations). Again, had Isamu set his mind on giving up his life to take out the Ghost, he could very well have done it too. Even if he didn't black out shortly after the fight began(as he would if the limitations of real-world humans were relevant, though they very likely weren't), he would've been unable to keep up with the Ghost simply because he would be physically incapable of manipulating his controls through the necessary maneuvers. Only took a straight attack once locked onto the Ghost to take it out. And I don't believe for a moment that the Ghost would politely hold still and NOT perform evasive maneuvers as Isamu got a lock and shot it. Once it starts dodging, Isamu's lost. And the Ghost can see Isamu's plane's sensors as they try to lock on, so it starts dodging as soon as he tries to get a lock. This is the same reason that Guld and the Ghost didn't shoot each other down. Both of them could see the other's sensors, and move before a shot could be fired. Again, conjecture, since we didn't get to see how Isamu would react against a fully A.I. opponent. Not having conventional G limitations made it more manueverable, but it didn't give it the ability to warp space & time. Mentally, Guld was on the same level as the Ghost, due to the BDI and BCS. Isamu... wasn't. This is hard to conceive, but is at the core of why Guld HAD to be the one to fight the Ghost. Mentally? No, the Ghost still had an imperative to preserve its own existence, Guld did not. Had the Ghost chosen to, it could have just as easily rammed Guld & been done with him. Isamu was interpreting input from various gauges, sensor displays, and warning lights while wiggling a stick, stomping pedals, sliding a throttle, and manipulating switches. Guld was seeing and flying. Every piece of information available from his vehicle was instantly and intuitively available. Every control of his vehicle was instantly and intuitively available. I'm going to go and again call that conjecture, since we don't know the ful ins & outs of the BDI/BCS. We don't know that Guld was instantaniously aware of every guage reading, we don't even know how easily he processed the information flooding into his brain. He may have had to mentally alternate between the various forms of mental imput, and hell, he may have had to open his eyes to read the guages inbetween flying & taking in imput from the various camera's aroudn the YF-21. When all is said & done, Guld was still human (Zentradi & Human yes, etc), and not a machine. In short, Isamu piloted a fighter plane, but Guld WAS a fighter plane. Compared to Guld in the YF-21 2, Isamu was a very skilled half-blind cripple. For all his advanced opportunities at reaction time, it didn't make Guld a better pilot And as long as we're ranting about cheating... Isamu didn't exactly play fair. He was depicted several times screwing tests up just to spite Guld. And then he went on a rampage with a stolen fighter when he was told he didn't win. Guld didn't overtly sabotage anything to defeat Guld. Whether Guld would perceive Isamu's showing off as a distraction or not was entirely up to him. Isamu never did anything even remotely along the lines of loading live ammo into someone's gunpod to at best frame him, and at worst kill him. Guld has one absurd and totally non-credible assassination scheme, even for a show with transforming jetplanes and 30-foot spacemen. Non-credible? He loaded live ammo into Isamu's gunpod, call it what you will, but it was done, and it was shifty as all hell. In the movie(which is the story as originally written, before marketing forced a lengthened version to be made) I can't think of a single bit of cheating on either side, though Isamu is a bit more reckless. ... And still goes on a rampage with a stolen fighter when he loses. Isamu & Guld never lost anything in that regard, and we already knew Isasmu was reckless. He's really lucky Sharon went crazy and let him be a hero, or he would've been locked up as soon as he landed. </tangent> 337060[/snapback] What makes you think Isamu had any intention of landing, or care for arrest. He went there to destroy the Ghost, Guld just got in his way. Worst case scenario (ironically enough), he would have (just as Guld did) commited suicide in its destruction.

Actually, I think the MI/AC set is supposed to have better subtitles, the only downside there being it doesn't have "any" of the extra's that the FX set has.

I haven't watched that in a couple years, but I don't think it was so much the plane crashing & the engine dropping that was the issue, as it was his mother & sibling being on the plane when it crashed (again, haven't seen it in a while, so I don't recall if that was as much of the issue). I also thought it had more to do with an alternate future so much as an alternate universe. In the future, the plane crashed, engine somehow dropped back in time & killed him, mother survives. In his alternateion, plane crashes, but due to his survival, his mother winds up on the plane & dies. In both cases, the jet engine spontaniously drops back in time. I really do need to watch this again, because I'll be damned if I can remember.

I still don't see how people can claim Isamu was a better pilot. Particularly since at the end of the day Guld had killed an AI drone with no G force restrictions and Isamu offed a pop star that couldn't aim a gun to save her life. Guld only beat the Ghost by using the BDI/BCS at its most extreme, taking off the physical & mental safety limitatoins. That doesn't make him a better pilot, that just makes him more reckless in the end. Isamu however beat Guld on multiple occasions (even causing Guld to cheat!) using normal human piloting skill.

The FX set is great for video quality, audio quality, complete content (all of 7 from episode 1, through Dynamite), it has all of the little extra's from the Japanese DVD's, and is a great set. the subtitles however are another story. Unfortunately they're not the greatest, but all of the "important" episodes have very good subtitles. Most of what is mis-translated in the other episodes is usualy something that's spoken in suedo english anyway, and you'll pick it up from the spoken dialogue (things such as "transformation" being subtitled as "re-arrange array.").

Dude, you need to get off the rape thing, not all women in bad situations get raped, and I sure as hell don't want to see it in shows where it doesn't belong in the first place. I also don't see why you mis-understand Stik so much, hell, I don't even remember him being portrayed as a revenge minded loon. He was a soldier first & foremost, was given a mission, and stuck to that mission no matter what. The only real improvision he made was in picking up stragglers as he went along to form a non-unifrom military squad. As for the Inbit, their primary goal was their own evolution, not subjigating humanity, or taking over the planet. I don't even really think they saw humans as viable life forms (at least not ones worth communicating with) until the end. They went through the whole gambit of life on Earth to test different evolutionary patterns & see what best suited to further their own existence. For the most part they only bothered with humans when directly attacked. I felt the general message was that they got so disgusted with the human race that they said "screw it" and decided to leave to continue their evoluton elsewhere, the people of Earth just barely being lucky enough for the Inbit to feel compassion for, and prevented humans from whiping themselves out (and cleaning up the planet to boot). You have to admit, the very concept that the Mars fleet was taken out not simply due to an Inbit attack, but because they didn't prep their approach for the potential of ozone being restored to the atmosphere is incredibly funny. As for dubs, there's no such thing as a good one, the truest way to watch something is in its own language with the emotions that were put into it by the original actors as dictated by the director. Anything you miss in the subtitle script can be picked up from that acting.

Stik was duty driven first & foremost, he would have pressed on regardless of whether Marlene died. And while you can claim Mospeada is about revenge, it is not about rape gangs, mass suicide, Cannibals, killing kids, etc. It was about survival, not morbid sh!t.

That's some morbid sh!t right there, I wouldn't want to see any of that. It's Mospeada, not clockwork orange.

At the end of the day, Isamu was a better pilot than Guld, and I too thought the sats on the 19 side seemed to surpass the 21.

The site is very legit, they only deal in licensed Japanese items. I've never had any problems with custom's charges, but then I haven't ordered anything in a year (last thing I got was the Gunbuster box set, which was freakin' awesome!), or maybe it was Lost Highway, which would have been this year....six months at least, but no custom's charges. Go over to www.animeondvd.com, check out the hardware section in the forums, and they'll be able to help you get set up with a region 2 compatible DVD player, or an exploit for your already existing player, or another site that will help you, etc. Worse comes to worse, you'll have to head over to cosco & pick up some $30 player (they would also be able to tell you which model), and that'll fix your problems.