Keith

Yup, Yui intentionally became the soul of Unit-01, which was the first part of her/Gendo's agenda outside of Seele. Which goes back to the soul thing. What we do know is that even in Evangelion, it's something outside of the tangibility of man to recreate. You'll note how they really stayed away from just how the dummy plug system works, aside from needing to copy the soul of an original being (Lilith/Adam) to even get it to work. But Evangelion "does" tie it in with the body for the most part. -AT Fiedl is the imaginary barrier between everyonething. Absolute Terror, or it could be said the fear that truly keeping everyone seperate, and part of the reason why no one can truly understand another. -The loss of the AT field equates to the loss of individual self, and or physical form. Synchroniztion between the Eva's & their pilots has to due with aligning, or lowering their AT fields together enough to make their actions one and the same. Perhaps the reason wh it was decided that an Eva needed a soul stock was because synching up with the body 100% resulted in hte pilot being obsorbed, losing distinction between themselves and the Eva. -The soul seems to be carried through LCL, making it a pysical thing in that respect. Kowaru remains in central dogma, Rei remained in the wreckage of Unit-00, etc. -And the strangest case of soul, Rei herself. Assuming that she and Adam/Kowaru were indeed one single god at start, the soul was able to split along with the body. Further, somehow after the death of Rei I, the soul was able to be split between Rei II & Unit-00. How this was possible/done isn't even remotely touched, but we do see that the two parts rejoin just before the decision to destroy Unit-00.

Shito is the word in Japanese use to name them, in English "Angel" was the official choice, complete with being used on the computer readouts. Also note, in no way shape or form am I implying that Eva even remotely literally references religion, when I use words like "god" or "angel" or fruits of life/wisdom, I am using them specifically with the show's intended usage of them.

In the realm of probability, there's no evidence to suggest they long stored souls of relatives for pilots (without Eva's to immediately put them in). So if there was such a case, Touji woild have likely been a pilot much sooner, with a soul readily on tap. The flipside, all students in Shinji's class were pilot candidates. That being so, Touji would be no more ready than any other child in his class, since all would have loved one's souls sittin' in jars ready to go so to speak. Kensuka for instance.

No, S2 engine = Fruits of life, the immortality that Angels have. The inference would be that the two forms of life require a trade off. Angels - Immortal, but at the cost of being few without a culture or community. Humans - Mortal, but with the ability to work together towards common goals & share knowledge/interact with each other. The S2 engine that Eva-01 took in gave it both the Fruits of life, and body of the Adam/angel side, since it already had the fruits of Wisdom (Rei's soul) along with the origin of that sides body (Lilith) in cloend form. Both Lilith (combined form) and Eva-01 are equal in that they have: Body of Lilith -Lilith: Original Body -Unit-01: Clone of original Lilith Body of Adam -Lilith: Returned in embryo form when Rei removed it from Gendo's hand and restored her soul into the original Lilith body (assumedly restoring Kowaru's soul as well) -Unit-01: S2 Engine eaten from the Angels body Also, Adam's body and the embryo are one and the same.

I can't help but feel like I was going to reply to some post, but I can't remember why, or who it was I was going to reply to, almost like the very memory of it got whiped out of existence. Damn Haruhi is a good show!

Which is the Megazone 23 Part III Part-2 ending. Seriously, the Matrix follows Megazone far more closely than Dark City ever did.

While ADV's original sutitles were..interesting in parts, the Platinum subtitles tightened things up quite a bit. But no translation can put simple facts in dispute. -Fruits of Life + Fruits of Wisdom = God in Evangelion.There were only "2" beings known to be god in the series, and both contained those two aspects (Lilith, & Eva-01). Also note that there were "2" beings known as Lilith, the Angel seen on the cross in Terminal Dogma, and that very same being once combined with the body of Adam, who is shown to be the original god in the series. And this is very important, Gendo had the body of Adam (in embryo form) implanted into his hand, Rei took Adam from Gendo, when Rei did this, she rejoined her soul with the body of Liilith, as well as the body of Adam, and as we are even shown, the soul of Adam (whos host body had been killed in Terminal Dogma) Kowaru. So, Lilith's soul (Rei) + Lilith's body (Angel-02) + Adam's soul (Kowaru + Adam's body (Angel-01) + embryo = God Now the Geofront was actually Lilith's Black Moon Egg (the one from which human life sprouted/w the Fruits of Wisdom), and the White Moon Egg (in Antarctica) where Adam was found (where angel life sprouted/w Fruits of Life) was Adam's Egg, "and" both Angels & Humans share 99.89% genetic similarity, then doesn't it stand to reason (as depicted in the show) that both Angels & humans sprouted from the same being? There is no in show/movie evidence to suggest that Adam & Lilith were seperate entities, not to mention the fact that their combination equals "god" would directly contradict such a claim. The matter of subtitle mistranslation with Manga's release was specificaly Misato referring to humanity as the 18th Angel. The claim that said line was an inaccurate translation has more to do with random fan speculation than anything, and regardless of the wording in the line, the spirit of the line still implies that humanity & angels are cut from the same cloth. Going back to the RCB we have the simple fact that: http://www.evaotaku.com/html/rcb-glossary.html [Adam] The 1st Angel. The giant of light discovered in Antarctica. The information that Adam was confined underground below NERV HQ turned out to be false -- that underground giant was in fact Lilith. The real Adam was the embryo-like object brought by Kaji from Germany. This was result of humans reducing Adam to an embryonic state after waking it up with the S^2 theory. Second Impact appears to have been an effect of this process. The book of Genesis in the Old Testament records that Adam was the first human to be created by God in His image. There are various theories as to the etymology of the word "Adam", among them: "earth", "red" and "create". [black Moon (KUROKI TSUKI)] The words used by SEELE to describe the egg of Lilith, the source of life. In episode 26', the start of the Instrumentality Project reveals that the underground cavity beneath New-Tokyo-3 which became the Geofront is in fact the "Black Moon". [Lilith] The giant crucified on a red cross in the depths of NERV HQ. Its face is covered with a mask on which SEELE's coat of arms is painted, and its hands are bolted to the cross. Although its lower body was missing while pierced by the Lance of Longinus, its lower body grew back as soon as the Lance was pulled out. The Instrumentality Project originally planned to use Lilith, but the loss of the Lance caused SEELE to change the plan and attempt complementation using Eva-01 instead. At that time, Keel Lorentz says that Eva-01 is "Lilith's clone", which apparently indicates that Eva-01 was made by copying Lilith. Incidentally, rabbinical scripture states that Lilith (Lilit) was the first wife of Adam, and also that between Adam and Lilith were born demons and spirits. [Kaworu Nagisa] The Fifth Children who was sent by SEELE to NERV. However, his true identity was that of the 17th Angel. It is likely that he was an Angel which had been captured by SEELE in the embryo stage. Unlike the other Angels, he has feelings quite similar to humans. The records list his birthdate as September 13th, 2000 AD. He made contact with the Third Children -- Shinji Ikari-- as a human, and although he became friends with Shinji, he was ultimately crushed to death by Eva-01 piloted by Shinji. He said that "Life and Death are of equal value," and "Only one form of life can be chosen to be given the future." And then of course there's Eva Unit-01: [Eva-01 (SHOGOUKI)] EVA-01 TEST TYPE. The first Eva to be introduced to actual combat, and the second Eva built at NERV HQ after Eva-00. Although it plays a major role in many battles against Angels, it also exhibits a number of unaccountable phenomena, such as going berserk, activating without an entry plug inserted, and remaining active after its operational time limit, etc. In the battle against the 14th Angel, it devoured the Angel and thus directly obtained an S^2 engine. Purple in color, its dedicated pilot is the Third Children -- Shinji Ikari. It seems that the soul of his mother -- Yui Ikari -- was made to dwell inside Eva-01. Also, the physical body of Eva-01 was apparently created from Lilith. This is why when the Lance of Longinus was lost, Eva-01 became the sole substitute for Lilith as the medium for Instrumentality (Human Complementation). So Eva-01 (body of Lilith) + S2 Engine (Angel Fruits of life) = God [Evangelion Mass-Production Models (Eva Series) (RYOUSANKI)] The nine Eva units (Eva-05 to 13) built at the various NERV branches. In contrast to the previous Eva, these units are under the command of SEELE instead of NERV. Equipped with the S^2 Engine, they have an infinite active time and thus do not need umbilical cables. They also have collapsible wings on their backs which allow them to fly. In order to carry out the Instrumentality Project, SEELE committed them to the battle against NERV, and as a group they destroyed Eva-02. While Eva-5-13, which were cloned from Adam, and complete with S2 Engines, were not gods, and on par with Angels.Any way you cut it, Adam does "not" equate to a god. By the same token, Lilith -Fruits of life, is also not a god. The only thing that constatutes a god in Evangelion, is a being composed of both sides.

None of what you quoted matches any of what you're going on about, especially since it recognizes Lilith as the counterpart to the Spear. Besides which, you contradict several very important points. -Adam is "not" a god, he is an angel, and part of Lilith. Note that both the god is named Lilith, and the female half split from it was also called Lilith (the male part is called Adam). -By proxy, The White/Black moon's did "not" come from seperate entities, they are two halves of the same entity/god, i.e. "Lilith." You'll note for the most part, the goal of both the Angels & Humans was to rejoin Adam/Lilith together to rejoin with god, at the cost of the other side. -Any speculation as to a "proto" race is just that, speculation, until its even remotely addressed in the animation. While it's clear something of some sort did exist, asuming that they were on Earth and used a spear to inhibit Adam is wild supposition at best. -By the same token, assuming that every inhabitable planet in the universe is inhabitable is also wildy speculative, especially since Yui departs clearly stating that to be her intent. And really, why rely on the dubious translation skills & non-main source info gathering/meshing from some jerkoff site. Watch the damn show, read the Red Cross Book (which too has only fan translations to rely on, but ones I'd rely on far more than a video game reference).

Poor soul, for you can not truly appreciate "The Matrix," until you see how blatantly it copied "Megazone 23."

Wait a minute, and just to go incredibly off topic for a sec, but your comments about the Matrix lead me to believe you have "not" seen Megazone 23?

"I admire your ability to show up" -Keanue Reeves: Hardball.

I last left off after the hopping from truck to truck in the snow chase.

Well, Tezuka in that it was originally his story.

The whichamadoodle diamond shower stuff that I can't remember the name of right now, that kept Fyana & Ypsilon alive.

that's another thing, I was really turned off by the design style, but the animation itself is deceptively detailed.

0079 movie trilogy, you can not watch Gundam without it! And for Tezuka awesomeness, go for Giant Robo.

I've been playing it a little here & there, but so far it's awesome (Uncharted 2). A very Indiana Jones worthy train scene is my favorite part so far.

Just finished watching the bluray a little over a week ago, and I'm glad I didn't go with my initial impressins of the movie (liked it much better on my seperate viewing). I was definately impressed with the first season, but I think I'll wait for the second season to come out on bluray before watching it, since the broadcast aspect ratio is cropped. I actually went back and watched the prequal trilogy, along with the Gendy Tartikovski CW, and these movies (aside from not being on bluray, wtf Lucas!) are aging pretty well. This series in general seems to fit in pretty well with the storyline of the GT Clone Wars, maybe at about after the second or 3rd section of the second volume. The highlight so far is definately the no holds barred clone carnage.

The irony, Mospeada had its perfectly clean & abundant HBT fuel source perverted into "proboculture." I'm just glad they didn't get their hands on Votoms. Even if it woiuld have made more sense to go after it.

Jealous <----What I am right now!

I am here to proclaim that Macross Frontier & Macross Ultimate Frontier have finally turned me from my hatred of Macross II, but I'll be damned if the Macross Cannon gunships aren't still fugly.

The true number one reason why Robotech is better than Macross: -Because Robotech fans can't cope with the fact that their dead pirated franchise of choice shafs them at every opportunity, while Macross fans are basking in the glory of regular every few year doses of awesome!

Yui's comments were in speicifc reference to the fragility of human life (i.e. there is only life on this planet), and the "need' to spread it outward, Evangelion being the tool with which to do that. Humans will eventually die, but Evangelion can live forever and spread that life again. The requirements being that a planet with a sun & moon were needed, and that is exactly what she went out searching for, just as Lilith did before her. You'll noticed Yui slyly left with the Longinus Spear. The spear itself being the key to activating the process in which a first impact could be initiated elsehwere (and thereby starting human/angel life agian with Yui swperating into the white moon/black moon forms from which life spread, yadda yadda). If the whole point was for Yui to merely become immortal, then that was already achieved when she took in the angels core (fruits of life). Gendo woiuld have actually have had better luck if he would have settled for merging into Unit-02 with Yui. he got a bit greedy though, so instead he decided to take on the form of the original god (replace Adam's soul with his own, and try to become the dominent personality with Lilith). Obviously Rei caught on, said "nuh uh," and kicked him to the curb, while retrieving Adam/Kowaru from Terminal Dogma. Things would have actually ended up somewhat better if he were allowed to succeed, at the very least hte Earth's surface wouldn't have gotten toasted if both he & Yui ran off with the Longinus Spear out into space. And Keel would have been sooo pissed Which takes us to Instrumentality, which was actually a 'devolution" (are we not men?), not an "evolution." It was literally like being able to jump back into the womb. Seele believed that the path human evoluition had taken was at a stalemate, and had no hope of progress, and would possibly lead to destruction. Their choice instead was to run back & hide in the womb from which life sprang, Lilith's Egg, and become one with "mom/god." In this existence (as we're shown through Shinji being the dominant persona for all life once achieved), there woiuld be no individual thought, everyone would exist as one being, in a form of warm gooey contention.

I actually have Raxhephon waiting to be watched, I'll get there eventually. Might I also reccomend Blue Gender (TV, not movie) for those who haven't caught it yet. Not as good as Votoms, but still pretty good.

A couple things: -Rei actually "is" Lilith, and it's doubtful those latent memories are Yui's, they are her own. or rather if you take it in this context.. Look at the very end, and you will see Yui Ikari (a human) has become Eva's description of a "God." What does she do? She leaves Earth knowing Shinji will restore things to as normal as they can be with the EArth's surface being fried. Yui's purpose all along wasn't "Instrumentality," or necessarily to create a better world for Shinji to live in (at least not in a conventional sense). Yui knew that Seele was dead set on setting those events in motion. And being as closely involved as she was, knew that at some point the form of existence that humanity continued in would come into question. Her goal in joining with Unit-01, as well as the main agenda that Gendo carried out (aside from attempting to hijack the original Adam & Lilith), was to become a god, go out into space, and initiate a "first impact" somewhere else that could sustain life, and start that whole process of Angels/humans evolving along seperate paths again. Taking things into that context, then you can extrapilate that Lilith (Rei) has already done this, and likely at some time in the distant path was indeed someone's mother. -There's a couple factors in choosing Touji as a pilot that you guys are neglecting. The final key in starting Instrumentality is the destrado (desire to die) of the pilot. Yes Touji was a semi-normal character overall, but he was also a character that could be easily pushed over the edge by the loss of his sister. That one event could easily make him of like to Shinji & Asuka. And assuming Pete & I are correct in the choice for the core of Unit-03, then who's to say Ritsuko/Gendo didn't already start the process of placing he soul in the core. If it really came down to it, would Touji really have any choice but to get itno that cockpit? -Gendo had nothing to do with Unit-03 being taken over, that was entirely the fault of the careless pilot flying it to Neo Tokyo. As to why it didn't manifest itself until Touji got in, that may have something to do with the operational limits put on the Eva, or maybe it was indeed another attempt at understanding humanity. But we know that thing didn't ship with a core, otherwise one wouldn't have had to have been prepared. -There's absolutely no question or conjecture about Ritsuko's mom being the basis of the Magi. However it wasn't literally her brain placed in it, but a copy. Likely the Magi was the true prototype for the dummy plug system, Gehirn/Nirv's first attempt at an artificial soul. And it wasn't the human brain that couldn't be copied, it was the soul.