Fortress_Maximus

Many of us feel buying from deadbeat scalpers like urbantreasurehunterjapan only encourages them to prey on collectors and the public. It is a vicious cycle whenever someone buys anything from scalpers. Prospective buyers have two main choices, you can choose to a) help their business grow by buying from them, or b) remove a purchase from their business and effectively voice your dissent. The choice is always yours.

Good catch jvmacross!

@Vepariga: Good plan! Is you collection posted anywhere? Url? Also did you pick up the cel used for your avatar? If you got any other cels post them in the cel collectors thread. Thanks!

@jvmacross: Orguss and Orguss02 are both entertaining, check them out. Orguss was fansubbed years ago by CentralAnime. You can see the fansubs on YouTube for free. @technoblue: Glad to hear you no longer feel the goal to collect multiple versions. So what exactly do you feel you need to get out of your collecting hobby? I found setting well-defined goals is essential to making improvements in all areas of life (health, career, financial, etc). Since you are on the fence of starting over and letting go, have you objectively considered the tangible benefits for selling versus holding onto your collection?

Ha! My thoughts exactly!

Possibly or could just be an honest mistake. Who knows? Suppose it really doesn't matter now since it is being offered. Wonder if the previous owner will pick this up. Are you interested in this?

Most likely a PC game. The matching douga was sold years ago. Why they failed to keep the two together is a mystery since they typically keep things together.

I concur. Ultimately, the onus is on the prospective buyer to conduct their due diligence. Hopefully whomever purchased this counterfeit cel was not deceived by the craftsmanship. If the price was lower even I would not mind purchasing what amounts to a fan cel. Unfortunately when YJA changed the userid tracking procedures, it stopped everyone from determining the identity of the bidding and winning party. But, if we see our good friend urbantreasurehunterjapan or another gouger offer it on ebay, we will know all we need to know, right?

Agreed. I also noted the cel creator took creative liberties with the colors and correcting mistakes too. I mentioned the red paint fill error/correction as the sixth tell. Did you notice any other concerns? @mokman: If you know, what variations have you seen for tome identification on cels? On the counterfeit the kanji is not correct.

Could be wrong but it was a single still shot or held shot which is held longer than most shots. There really should not be multiple frames. For these shots typically tome identified cels are used.

I concur. If we examine SDFM TV Episode 7 at 6:48 we can compare the two images as Mokman has shown above. There are multiple tells indicating the cel offered is not authentic. First, as with any cel that is 30+ years old there should be some traceline fading, but this cel has barely any. Also the cel itself does not display the acetate dullness that is commonly found with older cels. This cel is exceptionally clean and shines which makes it highly suspect. Second, the line thickness around Minmay's left eyebrow, her nose, her chin are of particular concern. Additionally, the shadows cast around her bangs, next to her left eye, and the shadows near her left fingers all do not correspond with the original image. Also note the shadow and extra lines added under her chin in the offered cel do not match too. Third, the extra white paint behind her hair does not belong. This was not used as FX or even as a flash or lensflare. Fourth, her head/hair is actually elongated in the original but the offered cel is quite proportional and matches her DYRL designs better than her SDFM version. Fifth, the folds on her jacket on both the left an right sides do not match the final image. Sixth, her tie does not match up in the placement and the red color fill; the red should completely fill the space between her hands up to her vest but still leave space under her neck. Also I agree the colors are off but it is interesting to note the hair colors are much closer to the original, while the skin tones appear off. I think the cel creator took some creative liberties plus accidentally corrected things such as the red tie, skin tone, shading and even the darker line shading (just to name a few changes). Lastly, this should be a tome cel but the sequence numbers do not indicate it as such. Overall, a well-made fan cel which hopefully will not fool anyone here.

@Oden: What specifically did you observe that leads you to doubt the cel authenticity?

@JetJockey: You do know that dealers are simply re-sellers right? AnimeLink is no exception. Where do you think they obtain their inventory? As we've discussed before in this very thread, AnimeLink has some industry connections, but what you may not know is they have purchased artwork from artists, collectors, and have even sold on consignment. Over the years they've amassed a large network of international contacts and sources which is why they have as you called it "...the good stuff". So it should not be any surprise if and when AnimeLink offers similar artwork that may have previously appeared on YJP.

I am sure you saw this Minmay cel https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/o202764565 I think it is another well-made fake. Thoughts?

That Misa DYRL genga depending on the condition should sell between $800 to $2,000 USD. I agree if the starting price was lower, there would be much more interest, but at the current price, it is unlikely to get a single bid. This seller is behaving like many private Japanese collectors I know that list on YJP, they will only list at a premium; this is also why for some high end private collectors unless you got at least $50,000 USD cash they won't even entertain offers.

Yes the price is high. What price would you say accurately reflects the rarity and condition?

Agreed! Sometimes the gengas and dougas are excellent pieces of production art. Speaking of which what do you think about this DYRL genga https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/q175319779

Pity, he might've had a sale if he was willing to compromise. This seller does not care/realize that the cel condition actually correlates with the resell value. Unfortunately, he is not willing to price to reflect this and I predict much like other overpriced items it will remain on ebay for awhile. Sometimes sellers try framing to drive up the price b/c they feel collectors will pay more, the thing is most cel collectors want to see the entire cel and douga (if available) to ascertain the condition. For me separating the douga is not essential but the condition of the cel is of paramount importance.

@ jvmacross: Missed your hint. What did the seller say? @ Jetjockey: Buyers with doubts prior to purchasing a cel, do yourself, the seller, and the entire cel community a favor and do not buy it. Why waste everyone's time?

Huh? Not concerned about better pics, just want to know if he is willing to sell to you.

What did he say? Deal or no deal?

Indeed! The price simply does not accurately reflect the product condition. Have you tried making him an offer?

Exactly! Hardly worthless. The cel can be restored if a collector is willing to dedicate the necessary resources. In its current condition is worth considerably less than what the seller is requesting.

That would be too logical.

Sadly it is increasingly common that some sellers do not understand how fragile anime cels are and what techniques help preserve. One thing that I find particularly troubling is how many sellers nowadays simply do not invest time and resources to protect the cels. This is particularly true on evilbay where most sellers are just flippers, and some are scalpers like urbantreasurehunterjapan. Over the years the cels I found that were often in the best condition typically came from cel collectors collections.