jenius

For people looking for feedback you seem to be doing a good job at not getting defensive...

Now see, that sounds a whole lot better but I think it's because the emphasis on "macross rip-off" is replaced by the greater meaning of "not terribly original." I totally agree that Mospeada is not terribly original. What I disagree with is that it just rips-off Macross. If the original comment was something like "Mospeada is just Mad Max meets Macross with a story-book ending" I'd go with that. I think the two caveats for other influences/aspects are significant enough to bear stating.

Who is the love triangle in Mospeada? There isn't even a love triangle there. There are a couple quasi-relationships but most of them are just hinted at until completely wrapped up in the end. Juxtapose that to Macross where the love drama is a huge driving force. There are aliens who end up APPEARING human, with no comment as to sexual compatibility 'cause it likely wouldn't be there in Mospeada. There aren't any idol singers winning over aliens in Mospeada unless you mean to include Sorji as all of Inbit kind. The Inbit could care less about culture and you have to admit, the cross-dressing freedom fighter aspect is definitely a twist on Minmay's idol. None of the characters have a Global or Roy guiding them, they just have Stig's single-minded purpose. Who was the big space racist in Macross? Again, a FUTURE space war is a genre, not a rip off. The Inbit restored Earth, they didn't leave it a cratered mess like the Zents did. The Inbit actually saved the Earth from the humans... I missed that theme in Macross. Mospeada is about sneaking around and launching terrorist style attacks (in sometimes flamboyant ways) where Macross was about waiting for the next time the quarreling enemy felt like striking out at the humans. In Mospeada there are plenty of fights against humans, in Macross there's a bit of political jockeying. I find it very easy to point out a few similarities but as Eugimon pointed out, they're usually superficial. If we're going to let "Future space war" become something damning then hell... we're gonna compile a long list of Macross rip-offs. Three mode jets? Sure, Takatoku knew what made money. Aliens that appear human? I'm pretty sure we can't credit Macross with that and it's employment in Mospeada is absolutely different from its employment in Macross. Idol singers? We all seem to acknowledge the fact that they're used in completely different ways, for different means, so basically you're just saying both shows have strong musical elements and yeah, that's not unique in any way.

I think your own comments subvert your own argument though. You admit there is original stuff but you seem to be tainted by knowledge of what could have been rather than judging what it was on its own merits. You're using evidence that the original concept was altered to incorporate more Macross elements to prove that the show is just a rip-off. Well by your definition than Macross is quite clearly a Gundam rip-off isn't it? There's no doubt then that Southern Cross is also a rip-off of previous shows. All of those productions had radically different concepts that were then crafted by a variety of people (all trying to make a dollar... er Yen) into something more LIKE something else. Other than the Legioss though the rip off argument just falls short.

Okay, to be fair, Ginrai's second post did clarify where the emphasis of his quote was and I pretty much missed it the first read through. Still, we know that some people involved with the creation of Macross wanted it to be a lot more like Gundam but we *generally* don't go around calling Macross a Gundam rip-off. Again, I don't think there's a single person who wouldn't say that Mospeada (and Southern Cross) both are clearly influenced by Macross and I doubt anyone would deny both shows wanted some of Macross' success, it's the "rip-off" phrase that just seems to be extreme. The creators of Mospeada were probably dreaming up a very unique story and were then asked to incorporate aspects that had been proven to be successful by Macross, they may be unhappy that they did so, they may blame having done so for part of the lackluster response, that doesn't make the whole thing a rip-off though. The fact they hadn't imagined some of the backgrounds to be a certain way or that there'd be an idol (uh, a cross-dressing one at that) just means that the show was influenced by a need for broader appeal... not that it's a rip-off. Meh, again, we're probably just going into what constitutes "ripping off" to different people again.

Well, we all agreed the Legioss was a bit of a rip-off, it's the entirety of Mospeada being a rip-off that was being debated. Almost every reference to gleaming anything from Macross here is in relation to toy creation and mech (legioss) design. He then thanks Macross and Gundam for creating an environment that allowed them to go about things as they did (again, from a merchandise standpoint).

Really? I guess they both had dream sequences... I'm not too sure on how else they're related.

While not transformable, there actually is a vehicle similar to the Tread in Macross. It's the big triple booster mechanism the Valk needs to launch in to reach orbit shown in the post Rain of Death episodes.

If anyone has a minty stand alone but wants to sell it to get the new gray stand alone that's coming out let me know... I've been lookin' to get one for review purposes

Meh, I think we just have a different opinion of what constitutes a rip-off. While I would never argue that Mospeada wasn't meant to cash-in on the success of Macross by using a formula similar to Macross I would definitely say it falls short of being a rip-off. For me it's like saying all hair bands ever did in the 80s was rip each other off where some would just say they were in the same genre. For me, if Mospeada truly was just a Macross rip-off it could never be lumped together with the original in what became Robotech because everyone would just feel like they were watching a crappier rendition of the first chapter. I've seen lots of discussions on Robotech and not once have I read or heard someone say they felt TNG was just some sloppy rehash of TMS. Obviously it's similar enough to be lumped into Robotech, but a rip-off? Well, if it's a rip-off why wasn't that term thrown around during the Southern Cross podcast? Aliens attack humans, tri-mode vehicles are deployed to save the day, aliens and humans fall in love, music plays some sort of role. Same genre or rip off? Southern Cross has destroids... but they don't look nearly as cool as the unused designs for Mospeada. Macross obviously had a huge influence on many shows after it, and toy manufacturers obviously were looking for a similar cash-in, but just lumping in everything that follows it as a rip-off implies its devoid of new innovation or original thought.

Cool podcast... most everything sounds pretty right on. I think calling the show a Macross rip-off is a bit harsh although I could definitely see the Legioss as a Valk rip-off. While Mospeada is definitely in a similar vein the Inbit are nothing like the Zents, Minmay's singing has an entirely different effect from Yellow's, the ride armor is unlike any Macross design, I'd say the two shows have entirely different feels to them (Macross being more involved). The podcast hints at Batra's blue eye but I think it would have been cool to point out that Batra's evolution is one of those few elements that does actually get carried out over the span of several episodes rather than being nicely encapsulated into one. One other point, the Refless is not a 9' tall woman in the end, she's still transparent, she's just appearing to the group as a human (of sorts). It goes to that whole Inbit collective consciousness thing Stig realizes when he sees all the Inbit being killed in space. Considering how long the podcast was, I could see where packing in anything else might have been impossible anyway. In Animefriend's defense, there work in Mospeada is clearly much better than it was in Macross (albeit still mediocre).

The velcro flaps aren't quite deciders. The VF-1J supers have velcro as does the VF-1A low vis and they're version 2s.

I used to race cars and "Perfect Drug" was one hell of an anthem. Man, those were the days.... and they were many days ago.

Stories this long should be broken into two and made into an extra film. Move the plot point around to make a faux ending, add another film, make more money. Seems like an easy equation to me... but I'm glad I'm not the one having to do it. I'm no Harry Potter guy, never read the books, but I've enjoyed the movies so far. I always like hearing people who have read the books comments and then contrasting them against completely un-initiated people like myself's opion.

Worst is Hayao's DYRL scheme... they screwed up his head laser. I love the unique paint schemes like the Angelbirds, VF-1A LV (1 or 2), Stealth (kinda drab) and the TV VF-1J team. The DYRL schemes are all meh with the exception of Roy's since it has so much sentimental appeal. From a QC stand point, my CF-1A and Angelbirds 1A had the worst, my Stealth had the best but I agree with everyone else that it's just a crapshoot and they're all pretty similar.

I totally agree. The colors themselves might look cool but these are just too conservative. A two-tone pattern could have been optimal but I think after the butchering of the red/white valks they decided the fans wanted something boring. Sadly red/white valks could have been awesome if the paint job hadn't been so... odd.

Well I said I'd do a review of this toy once it was probably sold out everywhere and I put the review up today. Not sure if this thing is sold out everywhere but I suspect it's close. If you're familiar with the thread you won't really find any new info in the review, seems like most the people who bought one pretty much have the exact same thing to say about it -

I heard the PS3 is noisy enough to making it a sub-par blu-ray player for people with high-end entertainment centers... like during really quiet suspenseful portions of films you'll hear the PS3 whirling away. Any truth to that?

Ugh, I liked the Auroran a whole lot more when I had forgotten exactly what it looked like... strike 3 for the Southern Cross mecha designs...

Since it's back in stock, instead of a preorder, isn't it possible that HLJ just found a few boxes of these or maybe picked some up for ridiculously cheap off some vendor that just wanted to clear inventory?

I've noticed this as well.

They've been showing up on eBay now for over a month. I think that is just a case of Internet sales people banking on the original released date. Something for the folks in the US to consider is that Toynami is showing these at the cons with an MSRP of $80 seemingly indicating that these toys will be available in the US without the huge shipping cost.

Without a doubt. This is also another area where Robotech just absolutely butchers the original. It could be an interesting study into why though. Did the writers of Robotech notice that the audience became disinterested in the mystery of the Zor and so the writers of Robotech tried to force a bit more knowledge on the audience sooner? As you can probably tell, and it's possibly quite unfair since I had seen Robotech before watching Southern Cross, but I never developed an interest in the Zor at all. The decision to ditch the body-snatching element of Southern Cross in Robotech sucks the creepy factor right from The Masters further crippling that arch. In Macross we got superb villains that were supposedly all business but had explosions of menace and personality, in Mospeada we had the Refless with her omnipresent eye and her haunting "eliminate them" as well as her super goons Batra and Sorji... in Southern Cross we get *kinda* distant, *kinda* cold, creepy guys that seemed like they'd make crappy neighbors. I have a problem forgiving it with the production problems though because there were points earlier in the story they could have exercised some brilliance or seemed way creepier but they didn't. What I love about Southern Cross is the notion that the humans may very well be willing to die to keep an alien from coming home. There are many moments in Southern Cross that leave you wondering if certain characters are good or bad. There's a ton of internal conflict that spills over into the plot. In that respect, I think your efforts to get people to re-examine it free of bias are very noble. Unfortunately, I think it's executed so poorly that I have a horrible time actually recommending the show to someone else. Yes, the Spartas/HT is very unique and that's cool but that's more cool if it's implemented in such a way where people aren't constantly coming up with ways it could be better. The same is true of the Auroran/AGAC. Yes, a transformable helicopter is kinda unique but will that stop the audience from wondering why a pure-bred space-fighter isn't being used? Add to that the numerous ambiguities (many are probably caused by the production problems but they're still present) and a method of writing that makes some of the characters so human they conflict the audience rather than becoming rallying points and it's not tough to figure out why those production problems occurred. I would contrast that to Genesis Climber which is absolutely formulaic and episodic. There is character development but nothing ground-breaking. Stig goes from blinded by hatred to destroying his own people's drones to set the Inbit free, Jim goes from a coward to a Lion... crap, think I got my stories mixed up. Anyway, there's very mild progression and Lord knows the writers were not intending the soap opera effect nearly as much as the writers of Southern Cross. Where Genesis Climber succeeds over Southern Cross is purely in entertainment. No, you don't get the cerebral action of a crazy Sefriet but you do get conflict, drama, and resolution and just enough open-ended-ness to bring you back (usually in the form of Aisha). The Inbit in the series typically just serve as motivating factors for the group to move from one post-apocalyptic moral to the next. Yes, those morals often seem canned but hey, it's better than the old GI Joe technique of just having Duke tell you a moral that had nothing to do with the show before the credits rolled. Genesis Climber makes better sense. The Inbit aren't as evil as they seem, the heroes aren't as heroic, but in the end the heroes win and the bad guys don't even have to die to make it happen (leaving a restored Earth in their wake). Could it have been 100x better if the writers were more daring? Hell yes. Could it have been much worse if the writers were more daring? Hell yes, and I would say your proof of that is the failure that is Southern Cross. PS - It seems I'm getting off-topic now. I am pretty sure you didn't want this to be a big Southern Cross or Southern Cross vs Mospeada thing so I apologize. Also, none of that was written in the hopes of sounding condescending, angry, or any other way that might sound petulant, I'm just kind of rambling. I enjoyed your podcast.

Cool podcast, I always love to hear what happened to people involved in these shows and get some background. Seems like you're giving the show points for noble efforts even when those efforts ultimately fail. A good example of that would be the praise of the mechanical designs; boy, are you right when you say some people would disagree with you (your comments on the Logan excluded). It also seemed like you two were (and I'm sure you are) much better versed in the Southern Cross universe than a person who would pick it up off the street. That person will see about three different suits of armor and have no idea about some of the cool thought that went into the show that just ulitmately was excluded. So in that way it seemed to be more review of the concept of Southern Cross as much as a review of the series itself (that's not really a criticism, just kind of an observation). I do prefer Southern Cross to Robotech's Masters for many of the points you guys bring up. I think the Zor/Masters fail as compelling villains though in both because of a dearth of personality. In fact, Sefreitt is almost forced into a position of carrying the personality for the would-be villains. The show also suffers from having villains that seem to defeat themselves which nicely reduces the drama a show can generate. Will the heroes overcome their emaciated foes lead by crusty old dudes? Are crusty old dudes that look like they're wearing flower costumes really the face you want to put on a mysterious foe that's pulling some major Invasion of the Body Snatchers junk? I don't know, the podcast starts with "It's a good show, better than Mospeada..." and yet there's never another mention of Mospeada. The comparison would be a show that does all the basic stuff right but never tests its own boundaries to a show that got all the basics wrong but was constantly trying to stretch its boundaries (IMHO). That's kind of a rant, worth only what it cost you.

Indeed, I wonder why the purple Maia MPC wasn't shown.... they've got Marcus' there. I'm REALLY curious how they're going to stagger the releases. It appears they're shifting things around to make the Beta their first release since it's the only one that has a target date listed (a target date that appears to coincide with the Aoshima Legioss release). There's no mention of when the TSC Alphas, TNG Cyclones, or Wave 3 of the 1/100s will hit shelves.