treatment

Which part of the DYRL story "stomps" over Macross TV? The turning of the background story of Protoculture/Supervision Army/Zentradi issues into something so simplistic and trite as "men vs women!", as well as dumbing down the story as a whole? I don't know what you mean by "dumbing down the story as a whole". DYRL was a more intelligent and logical story than TV. The Zentradi/Meltrandi/Human story of DYRL was more effective and better than the still-current big Supervision-hole in TV-story. You prolly only want the TV-story coz it makes M7 a part of Macross. other places where DYRL stomps TV: [*] The love-triangle was much more effectively handled in DYRL, i.e. better defined, better break-up. [*] The protoculture-angle/legend was a more believeable myth and better explained. [*] The lost city [*] The motivation and family-status of Kaifun's over-protectiveness of Minmay. [*] Minmay was older and not as fickle or ditsy. [*] Hikaru's reaction to both Roy and Kakizaki's death in the confrontation with Minmay. [*] The proper downgrading of the secondary and tertiary characters. Two hours was more than enough to flesh out the main characters and their respective motivations. Huh? Huh? Roy's death was more realistic in TV than DYRL??? You have got to be kidding me. Yup. What's so meaningful about LDA, anyway? How many songs did it took Minmay to sing in TV during the Bodolza battle? DYRL-song was more than enough since the primary use of the song was to surprise and shock the enemy for a few moment to gain an advantage. That's your perspective. My perspective is that I place DYRL above and then Plus and Zero next. Then TV. I don't place any of the 7-series anywhere besides the bottom. Without second thoughts.

Okaaaaay. Since SDF Macross has poor animation, does that make it suck? In terms of animation and the generation it was shown to, hell yeah. Even back in the 80's, the art and animation of SDF-TV sucked donkey balls. The TV-story was only interesting because of Hikaru and Minmay romance, which was lacking in many of it's contemporaries like Gundam. That's why DYRL stomps all over it. Animation and story-wise. Zero, on the other hand, has a more sophisticated story and sophisticated animation presented in only five episodes towards today's more, dare-i-say, sophisticated and jaded anime-fans. I hope that answers your question.

Ummm, what??? I know there are some who did not like the Masayuki character designs in Plus, but overall, Plus has bar none, the BEST animation next to DYRL that the Macross franchise has ever seen. The CGI in Zero was spectacular, but the hand drawn stuff I thought was lackluster, especially the drab, one-dimensional character designs. rol! You can put all of Plus' animations in the fighter and mecha dept and it still would not hold any candle against the animation of just episode-5 of Zero. Since when does animation make a series great? If that's what you're going by, Macross Zero blows away SDF Macross. /me shakes head. you're watching an anime, right? anime is japanese shorthand for animation. therefore, you always factor in animation-quality in every anime-series because that is what makes it anime. if you don't want to factor in animation in any series, you might as well just read some manga or some static poster-graphics.

Ummm, what??? I know there are some who did not like the Masayuki character designs in Plus, but overall, Plus has bar none, the BEST animation next to DYRL that the Macross franchise has ever seen. The CGI in Zero was spectacular, but the hand drawn stuff I thought was lackluster, especially the drab, one-dimensional character designs. rol! You can put all of Plus' animations in the fighter and mecha dept and it still would not hold any candle against the animation of just episode-5 of Zero.

hmm. I'm quite the Plus-fan here at MW (and elsewhere), but I do quite like Zero, too. Did not disappointed me at all. Even the music was surprisingly good. Of course, I wasn't expecting much from Zero in the beginning, anyway. I knew it was gonna be different from all the Macross-series. fwiw, Macross Zero is a prequel and set in wartime months before First Contact. Alot more restrictive environment. In contrast, Plus had the flexibility of being set 40 years ahead and in peacetime. Zero also had more aces, fighters, mechas and mecha-battles than in Plus. And animated a whole lot better than in Plus overall. The only thing Plus has any real advantage of over Zero were just (arguably) in the character-dept and Yoko Kanno's music. Isamu totally rulz! But everyone else in Plus was pretty much equaled by Zero's characters in performance and quality of the vocals, more or less. The "magic hooey-pooey crap" aren't even that bad, were quite few and were quite fully explainable and logically and smartly presented in the five episodes of Zero. oh, well. if you got disappointed by Zero, that's quite unfortunate. What I wrote above are not meant nor intended to convince you or anybody else that was disappointed with Zero. All I've done is just a counterpoint in that I wasn't disappointed by Zero and I rank it equal with Plus.

mikeszekely, That was a pretty good analysis and I share most of it, but one part: wiping out humankind. This has been rather jumped on too much in this discussion without thinking more fully about it. I think it's a wrong assumption that the AFOS or Sara was going to wipe out the failed human-experiment entirely. Recall Sara in the earlier episodes did not want people with guns to step on to Mayan's shores. And she was mostly opposed to strangers because they carry the "war-kadun" with them, i.e. Shin and the others. Therefore, she does favor her tribe, the Mayan, thereby eliminating the absolute "wiping out humankind" stuff. Also, Sara-AFOS seems to only target the big capitol ships and the fighters/mechas dog-fighting and attacking the AFOS. Consider that Shin's VF-0 was miraculously spared from the Sara's attack when he just jettisoned his armaments, i.e. only his packs were hit and not the VF-0 itself. It was improbable that the VF-0 could have evaded such a frontal attack that killed the best ace in the series (DD Ivanov). And this was clearly before Sara recognized him as Shin. Other than that, it's all good analysis.

Good point Keith. I can't help it, but I feel that all this is an after thought like the Star Wars series. I wouldn't be surprise if Kawamori release a "Special Edition" Macross DYRL with addtional footage hinting Minmay is somehow related to Mayans. I mean why is Minmay and the other Basara so special? If it's singing from the heart, there are thousand of singers that do that on Earth, How come the Zentradi didn't get affect by that? I mean come'on there are tons of old broadcast signal flying everywhere in space, they should have heard some of it while scanning the radio waves. I mean if the Zentrdi know that there's a planet with thousands of singers, wouldn't they turn tail and run from it? I hope that made sense ;; Minmay's nothing/noone special, actually. She's the only one singing in both DYRL and TV. The Zentraedi's were culture-shocked by not just her singing, but by other micron things such as the minmay-doll, the pairing/non-separation of men and women and stuff. The Zentraedi's (and Meltrandi's in DYRL) behaviour towards music were already apparent in both tv and dyrl as they have forgotten what music was. I'm not sure about Basara. That one's pulled out of somewhere in left field, imo.

I spot-watch this series and while it's got lots of parodies, it's mostly ain't as good or addicting as ATHF, Sealab-2021, and Venture Bros. However, I really did like that Ultra Cadets episode. That parody of sailor-moon anime was even way better than the actual sailor-moon anime.

I spot-checked/compared that graphic from the R2 and it is the same.

most likely it's slashdotted. or in this case, the server got AFOS-ed.

The girl-talk shouldn't be less affecting. Claudia was, afterall, just consoling Misa in that TV-episode. Giving her a shoulder and stuff. So to speak. I don't know much about girl-talk, but I can only safely assume that not everything the girls talk about behind our backs are quite true. fwiw, I also do feel that Zero matches up with DYRL better than TV and it really should. DYRL is alot more flexible. It's just that there are things in Zero than can be reconciled with the TV-version. I mean, Zero was classified information afterall.

Ewilen, You gotta take into account that it was just Claudia's version of the story between Roy and her in SDF-TV. Roy's never-told-version will most likely be different. A he-said/she-said situation, and only half-true. I know from personal experiences that my ex-gfs always have had a different accounting and versions of me and my time with them.

Hey, AlphaHX. I'll scan the R2-DYRL cover for you to replace the FX-one you have in this thread when I get off work, if you want.

I'll pay $80 for the Milia-QRau. I'll pay $50 for the Max-QRau.

imo, in terms of animation and eye-candy, Zero is way ahead of Plus. that's a given. in terms of story-presentation, they're pretty much both even. both are engaging OVAs. in terms of characters, Plus blows Zero away, even with Focker in Zero. Isamu just stomps all over Shin. Guld pretty much equaled both DD and Nora. Myung and Lucy were just better than Sara and Mao. Millard's better acted than Nutuk, tho Nutuk is funnier. Edgar is alot more acceptable than Yang. edit: I also like to add that even tho I like Zero's music, the music in Plus is still far superior over than what were in Zero. Just can't beat Pulse, man.

Actually, Zero encompasses alot more Macross Plus directly than TV/DYRL or M7. Sharon Apple taking over the Macross was the human-made reincarnation of both the AFOS and Sara. Myung's emotions were the trigger for Sharon, like Sara's emotions were the trigger of the AFOS. You can also make a leap of fate that Sharon was the bad human-experiment directly equivalent to the Protoculture's bad experiment of the Evil/Protodevlins. Shin going up against the Sara-AFOS in Zero is a direct (tho, more updated) rendition of Isamu vs Sharon-Macross. M+ just doesn't add the Protoculture-angle specifically like TV/DYRL and M7.

damn. way too soon. they should've waited a week before releasing. this ain't gonna help the R2-sale to recoup the investment.

Think Shoji will a pull a Plus and produce a movie-version of Zero? I think he shouldn't because ep-5 is just a fscking phenomenal climax/final-episode unlike Plus-ova.

the hory froathing booger-head himself

Here's the cast of Zero.

Ok. Just to be fair with M7-fans... There was an M7-like nod in ep-5. Sara in the AFOS bubble kinda sliiiiightly reminds one of Sivil's cocoon in M7. But the whole Sara controlling the AFOS control was much more reminiscent of the controls of Orguss-2's last villain. Except O2's was a dude and Zero's was Sara.

fwiw, I didn't find it rushed at all. The pacing was actually really good. the Shin monologue-recounting of what happened after ep-4 was just right on time. the kamekaze-run of DD was nicely done. the music was apropos. even the Mao holo was ok.

oh, yeah. for those interested. the R2-pack. with the skinny DW-pamphlet.

Shin's Cobra-maneuver. that's it.

for the Ghost-fans