Seto Kaiba

Now there's a statement of questionable accuracy... would you like some Iraqi WMDs with that? Robotech is, was, and always will be just another squirt in the crowd. It was one of the last major titles before bowdlerization became the very height of uncool. Yes, it was one of several "Americanized" titles that made anime accessible to western audiences back in the 80's, but it lacked the momentum to leave a lasting impact on either the industry or the audience, and it quickly lost its audience to Transformers and other shows when it failed not once but twice to produce a viable sequel. Macross got a foothold in the US despite (and in fact, because of) Harmony Gold's attempts to keep Robotech fans ignorant of the fact that the original form of its most popular saga was a far more successful franchise that had produced quite a few sequels. By blocking imports, they opened it up to legitimate and largely unopposed fansubbing, which followed on the heels of the introduction of "real" unedited anime in exposing fans to what they'd been missing out on because of Harmony Gold's greed, making Robotech slightly less socially acceptable in anime circles than a morbidly obese xenophobe with a chronic flatulence problem. Okay, the words "Robotech" and "original" are mutually exclusive, and should not be used in the same sentence. Actually, the TV series is the canon version of SW1, they've just substituted some of the DYRL designs and events into it over the years. DYRL is currently only canon to the alternate universe continuity of Macross II: Lovers Again. Let's be accurate here... Macross went off and did its own thing... Robotech went nowhere and did nothing, because it was preoccupied with floundered around in a morass of serial incompetence, idiocy, stagnation, and bad writing... laudable for its consistently poor quality if nothing else. It kept itself alive by re-selling the same story to the fans over and over again in different forms... novels, comic books, role-playing games... but never bothered to produce anything new. Even the comics that branch out from the main story often stole stories from whatever anime or live action sci-fi/action series was popular that month. Hasn't stopped anything... it's just made our hobby essentially free of cost. I don't know how many anime boards you visit, but Macross Frontier was part of that hat trick of must-have mecha fansubs that had mecha anime enthusiasts waiting for bated breath and attracted a half-dozen or more different fansub groups. If you ask for a list of must-see mecha anime on most of those boards, you'll find the original Macross and/or DYRL on it at the very least (and usually one or more of the later ones too). Eh... not keeping up with recent events either, like Macross Frontier breaking some DVD/Blu-Ray sales records at Bandai, the big concerts, and the various other indicators that Macross Frontier is flying under no radars and is doing quite well for itself. If memory serves, there were several volumes of Macross Frontier that sold better than many of its contemporaries in DVD form. It's a stretch to say Robotech lives... it depends largely what you call "life" at that point. Robotech is, at best, in a coma... one which has remained unbroken for a good 20 years. One more good, solid failure, like the loss of the live-action movie or the final cancellation of Robotech's animated features would be enough to put Robotech out of its misery, and Harmony Gold knows it. To be precise, it's more like apples (Macross) and pieces of inedible wax painted up to look vaguely like apples in hopes that the audience is gullible enough not to notice the difference (Robotech).

I know I'm going to hate myself for this later, but... Yo Roswell, New Mexico! I'm happy for you and I'mma let you finish, but Robotech had one of the best conspiracies of all time! OF ALL TIME! No doubt he thinks all the affairs are part of the conspiracy too... makes me wonder why I haven't been accused of having an affair with HP too. *feels left out now* Not me! Somehow I got left out of the People Against Harmony Gold fundraiser orgy.

Okay, this is so bonkers I just HAVE to share it. It seems that Pizza the Hutt (or Ghost Maker, or whatever the hell he's calling himself now) got it into his head that the leaked outline of the "Shadow Saga" is a forgery constructed as part of a vast conspiracy to undermine and destroy the Robotech franchise from within, orchestrated by Tom Bateman and carried out by those Robotech fans who are opposed to Harmony Gold's handling of the franchise (P.A.H.G.'s?). From the sound of things, he also believes that all the unpleasantness directed towards Kevin McKeever and MEMO, the rumors surrounding Robotech's involvement in MEMO's divorce (that he left his wife for a female RT fan, or that his wife left him because he emptied their bank account to fly HG company reps and VAs out to Chile for a con in hopes of landing a job at HG), the criticism directed towards Shadow Chronicles, and him being banned from RobotechX and (briefly) from Robotech.com are all part of this conspiracy too. Apparently our man Pizza didn't stop at persecution complex crazy... he went all the way to tinfoil hat territory. And this guy wonders why I keep telling him to chill the hell out. I'll never understand why some Robotech fans are THAT unwilling to accept that there IS a lot wrong with Robotech, and that it's entirely possible for Harmony Gold to make a bad Robotech sequel.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the origin of the giant tuna. *shrug* There were a couple good ones, like Full Metal Panic and Saiyuki... but yeah, most of ADV's work is crap. The Macross dub was just SO atrocious that I have no trouble believing Harmony Gold asked/told them to do a substandard job in hopes that people who bought it wouldn't go looking for more Macross.

Go to "Options" at the upper right corner of the topic, and switch the view mode to "standard".

I once handed over a copy of the Robotech soundtrack to a friend of mine who frequents the nightclub scene as a DJ as part of a bet that he couldn't make something listenable out of it. I ended up forfeiting out of sheer amusement when he handed me something that sounded suspiciously like a porno soundtrack that he's created by remixing a bunch of the character BGM. I ought to see if I still have it, it'll make the perfect soundtrack for the all-pornstar movie cast.

It's a manga that's currently running in Macross Ace... it's an adaptation of the Space War 1 era, but with a mix of DYRL and TV series aesthetics and such, modernized a fair bit too.

Aye... as the only person who seemed to realize how batshit insane most of what was going on in Macross 7 was, he's certainly got my respect.

Unfortunately for you, there's been very little that's newsworthy among the Robotech fans this week. About the only thing worth mentioning is that dougbendo has been making a big fuss over on RobotechX because he's catching a lot of flak from a bunch of different people over a podcast where he claims Robotech is, along with Macross and Gundam, one of the most important, influential titles in mecha anime. It's a spurious claim to say the least, but he's responded in defense of his claim with his usual array of colorful language and juvenile behavior. I'd conservatively estimate a good 30% of his comebacks have had something to do with his penis, or the penises of Steve and/or Tommy... which is kind of disturbing on several levels. Apart from his strange penis fixation, his default response usually takes the form of a transparent attempt to goad his detractors into making guest appearances on one or more of those podcasts of his, and then he gets really angry and starts accusing people of being afraid to face him when they all inevitably refuse, citing his juvenile behavior as proof positive that he wouldn't be able to actually conduct the reasoned, civil discussion he claims to so ardently desire. The part that really got me chuckling is that since I'm one of the most vocal critics in that particular thread, he keeps accusing me of cyber-stalking him, but he's spent something like the last week and a half alternating between trying to invite me onto his "Robotech Fan" podcast as a guest, and trying to goad me into it when I tell him I'm not interested. He's also drawing a lot of criticism from some quarters for a variety of others reasons. He didn't really endear himself to anyone when he tried to play both sides of the recent banning sprees on Robotech.com by pretending to sympathize with the victims and badmouthing MEMO and Maverick, and then turning around and sucking up to MEMO in hopes of earning some kind of legitimacy for his "Robotech Fan" podcast. It's not helping his case that he's claimed to be the one leading the entire Robotech fanbase on several occasions, and acting as though his podcast was a contribution of such staggering magnitude that all other fanworks pale in comparison. dougbendo is also suspected of being the one who posted a comment praising dougbendo's so-called achievements and threatening violence against JT on the Protoculture Times website. The other suspect is WDkaiserV1, who is well-known for his asinine behavior, having once challenged myself and other members of HP's site to a fistfight and then chickening out by giving fake addresses in Pennsylvania, and adding "Death to Macross Purists" to his signature on Robotech.com. Well, that's all the news that's fit to print... and a good deal that isn't.

Yeah, the 1/100 transformable VF-2SS toy is the only transformable one released to date... though there's one coming as part of the anniversary VF-100 series in the near-ish future. There are a bunch of B-Club and G-Port non-transformable model kits out there though.

FUND IT. That's all I'll say on the matter.

Your account was deleted (a permanent ban), I just had my posting privileges revoked (nominally a "temporary ban"), though there's no sign that they will ever be restored, so my ban is every bit as permanent as yours for the time being.

I feel fairly safe in saying that the honest answer 99% or more of us would give would be one or more profane variations on "No".

Nah, back in the day Steve was actually pretty okay with the bawdy stuff. I guess the idiots at corporate must've taken umbrage over something and clamped down on the boards. Eh, there are still easier ways to get around that problem that don't involve making everyone talk as though they're in a classroom full of precocious first-graders. A simple waiver of liability for objectionable material on the boards could have achieved the same thing without having to compel the ~30yo fans to dumb their discussions down to a PG level. They've already got accommodations for COPPA, so it's not like they're completely clueless. *shrug* Instead of having a few uptight fans leave the site because they don't like how a show with a predominantly adult fanbase can have adult conversations, they've chased away many of their adult fans in favor of a hypothetical teenage fan who failed to materialize back in 2006-2007. Ultimately, I think they've done far more damage in following this course of action than they could ever have hoped to do by allowing discussions above PG/TV-Y7 level.

Apparently not. No matter how hard I try, I can't come up with a rational explanation for why Harmony Gold USA puts so much effort into making the Robotech.com forums conform to a level of family-friendliness and political correctness seldom seen outside of reruns of Mister Rogers' Neighborhood. It just doesn't make any sense when you stop to consider that the average Robotech fan is more than old enough to buy his/her own guns, porn, and liquor, and has been for the better part of a decade, and their younger fans are almost all old enough to get into R-rated movies on their own. I could maybe see it as justifiable if Robotech were a show that had any kind of teenage fan following, or at least appealed to that age group, but it doesn't, and it probably never will. I mean, sure, there are twenty- and thirty-somethings there who act like they're thirteen (and write like they're seven), but I'm pretty sure it's chronological age that matters for things like that. What takes the whole thing from ridiculous all the way to hilarious is that there are quite a few scenes in the remastered "original 85", the Shadow Chronicles movie, and the planning materials for the rest of the so-called "Shadow Saga" that you couldn't even talk about on Robotech.com because of the "adult themes" in those scenes. Think about that for a second... there's lots of stuff in Robotech that you're not allowed to talk about on Robotech.com because it's not family-friendly enough. If that leaked draft is anything to go by, there's going to be a whole subplot concerning Janice and Marcus that'll be off limits on Robotech.com. Why? Because Janice is supposed to spend a good portion of the movie putting the moves on Marcus and trying to ride his pocket zaku.

Anything is better than nothing at all... I'll take whatever I can get if it adds to the body of knowledge we already have. Yeah, I know, but I can hope. After all, the U.N. Spacy ships in Macross II are the only ones that don't have canon sizes... the Mardook ships all do. Having a canon number for the Macross Cannon is nice and all, but I'd have liked them to cover the Heracles, Gloria, and line battleship too, so I didn't have to come up with various ballpark estimates based on nothing more than the footage, which is kind on inconsistent in a few places. (My estimates put the standard battleship at about 900m long, and the Gloria and Heracles at between 1090m and 1300m)

Not surprising, really. Robotech.com has been dying slowly for years, and now the decay is starting to accelerate a bit. I mean c'mon, they've banned most of the best, most prolific, generally helpful contributors. The majority of the remaining contributors over there are the Robotech purists who hate everything that isn't animated, the fascists who can't stand the thought that not everybody has the exact same opinion they do, the pro-Harmony Gold trolls, and the people who don't contribute enough to notice what a rathole Robotech.com has turned into. There are a few good, helpful people left (if you'll forgive the shout-out to those determined souls), like Rhade, and P Thomassen, and occasionally ShadowLogan, but most either are completely out to lunch, or just don't give a damn anymore.

Found it... looks like Steve deleted your account for recommending porn in that "what should I watch next" thread.

Well, as far as the energy demands of the pinpoint barrier go it seems fairly safe to assume that reactor output and/or efficiency would've improved over the 30 years since the VF-1. Of course, how much they've improved isn't clear, since the only other VF with a known, canon reactor output is the alternate universe's VF-2SS Valkyrie II, at a whopping three times that of the VF-1 (so just shy of 4,000MW, or about 38x the output of the A4W reactors on the Nimitz-class supercarriers). In that context, it doesn't seem unreasonable at all. As far the fold system, that's not part of the airframe at all, that's a sizable external module (FBF-1000A? fold booster) with an aggressively limited range (rated for not more than 20ly, one-way). If you wanna see bullshit stats that make no goddamn sense and explain nothing, borrow (do not buy) a copy of The Art of Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, possibly the most cringe-worthy artbook ever printed. I never thought I'd see an explanation for a technology that would make the U.N. Spacy's application of spirita seem reasonable... I didn't factor HG's shoddy writing into the equation. What flies for one universe does not necessarily fly for another, and there is ample evidence that the cockpits are in fact pressurized, like Hikaru, Misa, Hibiki, Ishtar, and many other characters riding in valkyries without wearing a properly sealed spacesuit (or indeed, a spacesuit at all). Bandai did their homework just fine, actually... most of the main continuity's fighters that were introduced in the 2040s and later were capable of reaching orbit over an earth-type planet without the need for a booster system. That's what "unlimited combat ceiling" means. They can (and occasionally do) boost into orbit under their own power, without any external booster elements. There are indications that this capability may have been available as early as the VF-4, though it supposedly drains the fighter's fuel tanks dry in the process. Indeed. That's where MEMO dumps anything that might not show him to be the supreme authority on all things RT, and any thread where anyone dares to criticize him, RT, or HG. Check anywhere you've posted recently... odds are Maverick and/or MEMO decided to ban you for what you've been saying here, and are keeping it quiet.

Actually, you could make a fair case for Robotech being one of the best things to ever happen to Southern Cross, since it now enjoys far greater exposure than a show of its standing would/should have normally gotten. Sure, the RT fans hate it too, but you can't win 'em all. I don't think anybody (except maybe Pizza/Ghost Maker) would hold that against you. Like so many of the Robotech die-hards, dougbendo drastically overestimates Robotech's popularity, its relevance to the anime industry, and its relevance to western popular culture. He doesn't want to accept the simple truth that Robotech is a mosty-forgotten, much-reviled, anachronistic piece of 80's esoterica, so he's convinced himself that Robotech is every bit as popular and influential as Gundam and Macross. So instead, he perpetuates a fantasy so he can hold Robotech up as being Macross's equal, something anyone with even a passing familiarity with the anime industry can tell is about as far from reality as it gets. The debate between Macross and Robotech is not a contest of equals. It never was. It never will be. Holding Robotech up as an equal to Macross in terms of its popularity and its industry and cultural relevance is rather like claiming a grade-school bully is just as good with his fists as a heavyweight prize fighter. It's pretty much standard practice for Robotech fanatics to accuse anyone who doesn't completely agree with everything they have to say of being a "Macross purist".

Wait, they actually gave a minor mecha like the Gnerl decent coverage? O_o If they follow the pattern, they'll make a whole new set of sheets for the movie. For great justice! That is EXACTLY what I wanted to hear! Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit... now I have to actually get off my duff and order that issue! If they actually give the Gloria a size, I will be entirely floored. The lack of decent size data for the Macross II ships has been driving me bonkers for ages now, and they didn't throw me a bone on the Heracles, but I'm hoping they'll at least do the Gloria, since that thing was pretty important. Eh, I rather like the VF-2 series too, but yeah, the VF-1 Valkyrie Refit/Kai is pretty damn awesome. Somewhere I've got a big model magazine spread of a 1/72 VF-1SR in Komilia colors that I think was a conversion kit. I wish that mecha had got better coverage than just a brief color spread in B-Club 79, a brief color spread in Entertainment Bible 51, and an all-too-brief mention in one issue of Mecha Press.

I didn't say they were good reasons, just that they were the most common themes in explanations of why fans like Robotech.

I disagree... there are Robotech fans out there who can (and do) present well-reasoned arguments to defend their love of Robotech. They're incredibly rare, and becoming rarer by the day as Maverick_LSC, MEMO1DOMINION, and their fanclub do everything in their power to destroy the Robotech fanbase from within, but they DO exist. Generally speaking, the responses you'll get from most Robotech fans when you ask them why they're fans of any Robotech adaptation you care to name all boil down to one (or more) of these three basic responses: #1. Nostalgia. Easily the most common response, most fans will give some flowery statement that essentially says that their devotion to Robotech springs from rose-colored memories of their childhood, teenage years, or a simpler, more optimistic time in their lives. We really can't fault them for this one, though it is a poor reason to overlook the flaws inherent in Robotech and the way its handlers have thoroughly mistreated it over the years. #2. Ignorance of real anime. Quite a few Robotech fans cling to Robotech simply because they're totally unaware that there's better stuff out there in the same genre. These fans are fewer with each passing year, but they keep clinging to Robotech possibly because they're afraid trying a new series and liking it more will somehow invalidate their rose-tinted childhood memories of Robotech, or they simply have no clue how to go about getting the good stuff. Usually once these people are enlightened, they usually ditch Robotech altogether or pay it minimal heed. #3. An avid dislike of real anime. The most belligerent Robotech fans often display an active hatred of real, unedited anime titles. Quite a few of them just can't be arsed to sort out the cultural context of various scenes, so they prefer to avoid them altogether. Others find the Japanese cultural references offensively foreign, and prefer to stick to Robotech because virtually all of the Japanese cultural elements have been excised from the component shows. A great many of these folks are usually motivated by ignorance of real anime, and prefer to rant about and bash shows they've never seen before. This is where a LOT of the Macross-bashing ones come from.

Yeah, I was kind of perplexed when he said something similar to me in a private message, accusing me of hiding behind HappyPenguins, who is at least the right gender to be wearing skirts. Never worn a skirt myself, but I have worn kilts on one or two occasions. It sort of makes you wonder if he's not some kind of automated trolling program that assembles obnoxious dialogue using a random number generator and one aggressively long IF-OR-ELSE statement. I'm not gonna dig too deeply into what he really does for his day job. He claims to have once been a prison guard, and I recall him mentioning his current (or is it former now?) job is one of those generally unpleasant hourly jobs of the sort a high school kid normally does, though I forget if it was food service or something else. I'll wager that's where a lot of his hostility ultimately comes from... a genuinely unsatisfying, thankless, unstimulating, soul-crushing bore-fest of a job.

Yeah, most sites have some kind of catch-all provision for banned users coming back under new screen names or using another member's account to post. It typically calls for a permanent ban for their new/borrowed account too. Of course, RobotechX is, at least on paper, a kinder, gentler fansite that doesn't believe in heavy-handed moderation of the boards. Instead of banning him outright once he confirmed the obvious, they decided to wait until he started with his old behavior again. It's not like MEMO doesn't have an account here too... and it IS a public forum. I think MEMO unbanned him because he's the only regular member who actually believes MEMO's insane, faith-based argument that Harmony Gold has full control of Macross and can use it as they see fit. Everyone else, including newbies who were new to the issue, were able to see right through it.