Seto Kaiba

Um... wrong. Louie Nichols, the Robotech equivalent of Southern Cross secondary character Louis Ducasse, has rather a lot of screen time in Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, and unlike "Rick Hunter", he's actually RECOGNIZABLE. We don't know that... you're asserting a hypothesis as fact. In truth, the evidence suggests that Tatsunoko owns the intellectual property rights to Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, as they were involved in the production from the very beginning, including the creation of the concepts and designs of the series. Remember the court's rationale for confirming that Tatsunoko had no claim on the Macross IP... they weren't involved in its creation. This is the reverse situation, where Tatsunoko WAS involved in the creative process from the very beginning. Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold made extensive use of Southern Cross IP in the failed Robotech II: the Sentinels series, and did use some characters from the Southern Cross series in Shadow Chronicles as well. This, given the evidence, is a MUCH more likely conclusion. Yeah... that's the main problem with MEMO1DOMINION and Maverick_LSC... they try to reinterpret statements like "we own all of Robotech" to mean "we own all of the shows that were used to make it". Some of your facts aren't facts at all... in fact most of them aren't. Do check your facts before posting, or you'll end up as bad as the people we're having so much trouble with. Big West sponsored Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, but the show was created almost entirely by Tatusnoko Productions, with mechanical design done by Tatsunoko-contracted studio Ammonite. Tatsunoko should, under the law, get both the production credit and intellectual property rights, as they did all of the animation and creative legwork (and the little creative work that was done outside Tatsunoko was done on Tatsunoko's dime). By all the evidence, Tatsunoko has every right to use and authorize the use of Southern Cross intellectual property, as its legal owners. The really revolting part of what you guys have been posting lately is that the information necessary to prove your point wrong is so piss-easy to find and understand that you all have NO excuse for this mistake.

Given that they've released Southern Cross merchandise in the past, and that they had no qualms about using Southern Cross characters in the Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles movie, your guess is as good as mine. It could be that they wanted a consistent design aesthetic (and let's face it, Robotech's nature means that doing that limits you to one saga at a time), or just that they remembered how unpopular the Masters Saga was and resolved to avoid using the almost universally loathed mecha from it. You sure about that? Harmony Gold did release Southern Cross merchandise under the Robotech name... first with Matchbox, then with Playmates as part of their Exo-Squad line, and they're still selling merchandise (mugs, apparel, and posters) with Southern Cross characters and the Southern Cross Army logo.

Nothing gets people's attention quite like drama, eh? I wouldn't say they got their facts wrong, so much as they tried to boil the rulings down to something very short, simple, and easy for the casual reader to understand, a task that's next to impossible with court documents. That was my point, yes.

Yeah, you have a point... but there's a limit to what can be tolerated, even here. If this were all just an honest misunderstanding, or anything like an actual discussion, we wouldn't be having a problem... but it's not. What MEMO is posting is deliberate, dare I say, malicious misinformation because he doesn't want to accept reality. I couldn't even begin to guess what his reasons are for trying to exploit his status on RT.com and RTX to mislead Robotech and Macross fans, and I don't think I really want to know. That the legal debate is supposedly neverending (though in truth it ended long ago) is not grounds to excuse a willful attempt to mislead others. MEMO certainly is. It took a great deal of effort from several people to explain that the right to use the designs in merchandise doesn't mean they have the right to use the designs in animation or live-action motion pictures... and I still don't think he understands the concept. Exactly. Oh, he's not... but there's plenty of cause to suspect that he's hoping that if he kisses enough Harmony Gold ass, they'll hire him. We're talking about the people that hired Kevin McKeever... you do realize that, right?

That, my friend, is putting is MILDLY. Finding a factual basis for his argument is like finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq... it's just not gonna happen. If this were just a question of what he says here, it would be one thing... but he's been using his crackpot, fact-free argument to deliberately mislead people on multiple websites, and spread misinformation about Harmony Gold's ability to use Macross content and the obstacles to Macross licensing. If anything, we're doing the average Robotech and Macross fans a favor by pointing out the hard evidence and the blatantly flawed reasoning in MEMO's argument. Some people in the Republican party are still hoping Palin'll run for president in 2012... that's the worst joke there is. Y'know, this has been answered for you SO MANY TIMES and by SO MANY PEOPLE that there is no doubt in my mind this is just trolling on your part... nobody can possibly be this dense... the "missing puzzle that you don't have" has been handed you to so many times it's not funny. You just chose to ignore it then like you're doing now. I answered this very question for you on the previous page, and you apparently overlooked it somehow. For your convenience, here it is again: Of course, Gubaba's already answered your question AGAIN, though he took the easy way out and just quoted TakNSDAP's previous explanations, which are essentially the exact same thing I spend the better part of a week verbally bludgeoning you with over on Robotech.com. Recently? Almost nothing. They seem to have been reduced to just rubber-stamping the use of whatever Southern Cross and Mospeada intellectual property Harmony Gold needs/wants to use in the ongoing "Shadow Saga". They apparently consulted with Harmony Gold early in the production process of Shadow Chronicles, but that, and the supplying of a story consultant seem to have been the extent of their involvement. It's a far cry from their much more active role in Robotech II: the Sentinels and even Robotech 3000. I guess they just don't care anymore.

Yeah, I've had that site bookmarked for something like six months now. It still doesn't support your argument, because your argument is based around a complete misunderstanding of the hard facts of the court findings and other materials. It's no stretch to classify his "contributions" as trolling, that's for sure. This latest batch of posts looks to be nothing more than him picking links posted by other, far more knowledgeable contributors and reposting them to make himself look like he isn't completely talking out of his arse. Yes, it is. Unfortunately, there are some who just aren't prepared to accept the truth, and so they put enormous effort into trying to deny that truth. Not just that, but the story, the core concepts of the series, and most of the rest of the stuff too... which is why the courts confirmed that Tatsunoko had no claim on that intellectual property.

Oh good grief... MEMO comes among us again, having added a poorly-written Wikipedia article to his complete and total ignorance of the law, the rights involved, and the court rulings, thinking that it proves something other than that he's a self-deluding twit who doesn't know what he's talking about. For your edification, MEMO, the 2002 court ruling affirmed that because Tatsunoko was not involved in the project when the copyrighted intellectual property (character and mceha designs) were created, those copyrighted designs are owned by Big West, and that Big West is the sole party able to utilize those those designs. To put it bluntly, MEMO, Big West is the sole holder of ALL the rights to those designs under copyright law... including both the author's rights and economic rights. The 2003 court ruling found that Tatsunoko had the production copyright on the footage itself... the economic rights associated with being the "maker", but not the moral rights associated with being the "author". This does not trump, contradict, or in any way alter the scope of Big West's copyrights on those mecha designs. It does not give Tatsunoko ownership of those designs, or the right to use that copyrighted intellectual property in any way. The only rights Tatsunoko has to those designs are those specifically granted to them by Big West under contract... namely, the international merchandising rights (excluding Japan). Tatsunoko never owned the intellectual property rights to those designs, and thus CANNOT give those rights to Harmony Gold, and certainly cannot authorize the use of that copyrighted intellectual property for the live-action movie. Now MEMO, if you don't understand what you're talking about, and believe me EVERYONE can see that you don't, please keep your yap shut. It's a mystery to me what you think you're going to accomplish by continuing this crusade of ignorance and denial... the only people who will be convinced by your factless argument are those who just don't want to accept the truth that Harmony Gold cannot and will not use Macross designs in anything other than merchandise. I would agree with Gubaba that you're just destroying your own credibility, but after your recent antics, I don't think you really have any left to damage.

Dunno why you're invoking my name... I didn't really have any use for the animated series in its original format, and certainly not after 4Kids got done making a Macekre out of it. I did follow the manga for the first few volumes, back when the main character could best be described as a sadistic, supernaturally-empowered, schizophrenic serial killer-slash-vigilante who makes Death Note's Light Yagami look like a model of mental health. For a while it was mildly diverting watching him subject anyone who crossed him a harrowing supernatural game of strategy they had no chance of winning, and then torturing, mutilating, or murdering them when they lost. (No surprises that when they animated that part, it got left out of the US release... there was just no way for 4Kids to make the mass-murdering sociopath of a protagonist kid-friendly)

Not surprising... Space Station Liberty IS the unofficial propaganda mouthpiece of Harmony Gold after all. As is typical with this, he half-assed his research. That's par for the course with Robotech die-hards though, and Chris Meadows (Robotech Master) is definitely a die-hard. It's not like this'll damage Harmony Gold's rep any more than it already has. Battletech fans have hated Harmony Gold since the 90's, because of the original "unseen mecha" lawsuit, and most mecha anime enthusiasts on the various websites scattered around the net hate them either for bastardizing Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada, or for keeping Macross sequels out of western markets. Really, their reputation was already poo, and this is just more crap being heaped atop an already mountainesque dunghill.

Ah, the unofficial Harmony Gold propaganda division swings into action. I posted a comment there, clarifying some of his more obvious fartups. I really should make a point to attend the next Space Station Liberty session with McKeever and drop a few bombshells.

We'll know soon enough... someone asked that exact question on RT.com's Production forum (the one where Kevin McKeever hangs out), so he'll answer soon, if he hasn't already.

It's not the same design precisely, but it's close enough to be recognizable as a Tomahawk, and that's all that really matters. Like it or not, Harmony Gold does legitimately own the exclusive right to produce merchandise based on the designs of the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series for sale outside of Japan. As odd as I know this sounds... Harmony Gold is behaving in a way which is neither unethical nor legally questionable. This is a fairly clear-cut case of someone violating their exclusive right to use those designs in merchandise outside of Japan, and they are well within their rights to send those cease and desist letters. I'm inclined to suspect this is a repeat of the problem with Catalyst Game Labs, where they green-lit the use of the "unseen" designs without being aware of the terms of the settlement in Harmony Gold v. FASA. As you pointed out, the trailer was an IGN exclusive, but I suspect the real reason they're going after the trailer with such vigor is that they want to get the infringing material out of the public eye while they meet with Piranha Games to demand the removal of the infringing design(s) in hopes that they can settle the situation without having to resort to a long, messy, and expensive legal battle. Of course, it doesn't really change the fact that their recent actions towards Battletech and Mechwarrior are essentially public relations suicide, since Robotech is a virtual nonentity by comparison.

Yeah... lawsuits like that are complicated and time-consuming, and as such are expensive as hell. Because of that, most of the time the companies Harmony Gold threatens with litigation usually bow to the pressure unless they think they have a really good case (like FASA did). So it's pretty rare for something like that to actually end with litigation. I'm betting they do exactly what Catalyst Game Labs did. Issue a statement saying said designs wouldn't appear in the game because of an unforeseen legal complication, and end it there without it ever having to go to court.

God no... the rest I could happily live with, but NOT an english dub. Bandai's english dubs are pretty bad on average... better to leave it subbed.

Yeah... I know. Seems like a waste to bother paying whatever ridiculous price they're asking for it these days just for the tactile (dis)pleasure of holding the disc in your hand, when you can watch (read "ignore") the movie on Hulu at no cost to yourself. I have to wonder how many cheapskate fans used flash movie capture software to download the movie off of Hulu. It's an occupational hazard of putting anything up as a flash video. I dunno, I haven't bothered going to Hulu to look. Yeah... these past few weeks have been a public relations nightmare for Harmony Gold, and it's all thanks to MEMO1DOMINION and Maverick_LSC (primarily MEMO, but we can't pretend Mav didn't have a hand in the whole misinformation business). I'm hoping that Steve is seriously considering cleaning house, and replacing both of 'em with moderators who have their heads screwed on straight. In related news, is the user "Tom Bateman" who is browsing this thread the "Tom Bateman" who used to work for HG, or just someone goofing off?

Imagine my surprise when I checked my inbox today and found that Steve is actually looking into the complaints about MEMO's behavior. I am a bit weirded out that of all the people who wrote to him to complain, apparently I'm the only one he took the time to write back to. I know my status at Robotech.com could best be described as "pet heretic", but I can't fathom why I was the only one he felt deserved a response. My Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles DVD is with the rest of my Robotech stuff... buried with all the other useless crap I can't convince people to stop giving me for Christmas.

No, but I can think of a few mental hospitals that might be interested in you.

Got a copy of Plan 9 from Outer Space in there too? Don't take all the credit... I'm named on that website too. Khyron_Prime labeled you, me, and two other guys the four biggest dangers to the Robotech fandom! Jaaaaaaaason! It's not working when I do it! I've been heckling the mods and disagreeing with them and even taking them to task via e-mail when they make stupid decisions, but somehow I've managed to remain unbanned through it all.

That's really all they ever do on SSL. It's Harmony Gold's propaganda mouthpiece, so they don't ever answer any questions that might be of use to anyone.

Poetic AND accurate... can't fight that. The problem with Maverick_LSC and MEMO is that rather than examine the evidence of the legal situation and then form a conclusion based on that evidence, they STARTED with a conclusion (that Harmony Gold can use whatever they want) and then tried to ignore or reinterpret anything that contradicted that conclusion. It's like arguing with a creationist, no matter how much evidence you browbeat them with, they're going to hold up their crackpot theory as the absolute truth. Pizza the Hutt is a whole other problem... if you ask me, the reason he hasn't gotten a permanent ban for his behavior so far has been because he's the only person in those legal threads who believes MEMO and Maverick's crackpot, provably wrong claims to be accurate. Of course, they're not going to shoot their own argument in the foot by banning the only person who believes them, no matter how poorly he behaves or how many rules he breaks. Because of that, he thinks he's been given carte blanche to do as he pleases and attack Macross fans for no reason. I get the feeling that kid's got some serious issues, and that he's defending Robotech so adamantly because he experienced real quality Macross (DYRL, Frontier), and it threatened to overwhelm his role-tinted memories of Robotech. So I think he's doing what he's doing to try and convince himself that he hasn't been wasting his time with Robotech. Since when have they cared about how things looked? They've always depended on one tried and true strategy to keep themselves looking good in their own eyes... whenever something goes tango uniform, they blame whoever they were working with at the time. For Sentinels, it was Matchbox. For Untold Story, it was Cannon Films and Idol Co.. For Robotech 3000, it was Netter Digital. For Robotech: Crystal Dreams, it was GameTek. How much y'wanna bet if the Shadow Rising movie goes under, they'll blame FUNimation (their old release partner), Warner (for holding the project up), or whoever they hire to animate it? It's pretty much ALWAYS been like that with Robotech fans... it's just never been this blatant. If you thought the new stuff coming out (whether it was the horrible comics, the mediocre novels, or the feeble sequel attempts) was great, you were a "real fan", and if you didn't, you were labeled a troll, a basher, a Macross purist, etc. The problem with the current state of affairs in Robotech is that even if the truth comes out, there will still be some people (like MEMO) who want to continue to believe the lie SO BADLY that they will make up other lies to try and somehow make the first lie true. Just look at how MEMO is trying to hard to find an excuse for the absence of Macross references in Shadow Chronicles.

That seems to be their default accusation these days. Either they're so dense they don't understand a simple concept like dynamic IP addressing, or they just want to try and trump up charges to get rid of people that don't follow the party line. Is your ban permanent, or just temporary? This, I think, is the real reason for your ban... Tommy must've let slip something the public wasn't supposed to know, and now Kevin McKeever is doing damage control by calling anyone who repeats Tommy's statement a liar. I don't think I'll ever get banned, really... and I don't think it'll be necessary. Lately, I've just gotten so sick of the paranoia from Harmony Gold about how the few remaining fans perceive the franchise, and the asinine behavior of the few remaining moderators, that I can't even muster the energy to get good and angry at these people anymore. With the current state of affairs, the Robotech franchise has fallen right off of my critical spectrum into the cold void of dispassionate loathing. It's like the reaction many people have when they see Paris Hilton... she's so obnoxious and disgusting that you just find yourself changing the channel without even having to think about it... it's almost a reflex. It's rapidly becoming that way for me and Robotech.com. Anytime I see a thread packed full of those same, few idiots who kiss Harmony Gold's ass all day, my first instinct is to close the browser or navigate somewhere else. Reading MEMO and Maverick's posts in the legal debate thread over there is a lot like watching the Detroit Lions play football. They CLAIM to represent you, but more often than not you're embarrassed just to be associated with them, and you keep hoping someone with a brain will take over. They've posted some of the worst, most misinformed crap that I have EVER read. The really horrible part is they're the only ones who can't see how ridiculous their arguments really are. For whatever reason, they actually think they have a case and that they know what they're talking about. These are the people who hold themselves up as the representatives of the fanbase... the veteran fans who are supposed to be the best examples of what the fanbase is all about. When that's all I have to look forward to by loading up Robotech.com, is my current attitude towards that site really that surprising?

Y'know, I'm really not that fussed about it. If it happens, it happens. I don't think it will, since I usually refrain from causing trouble over there, and I'm a well-known figure in the community known for helping new and old members alike, but if it does, it won't really be any skin off my back. In all fairness, there is one at least reasonably competent individual working on Robotech at Harmony Gold. Tommy Yune went to a top flight art school, and his early forays into comic books were actually pretty good. The problem is he's completely and totally out of his element trying to do sci-fi.

We're only talking about the Robotech version here... where the entire bridge crew (except Lisa, who was pushed into an escape pod) bought the farm during the final ep.

Common knowledge, yeah. Who are you referring to here? The construction of Robotech.com was contracted out to a design firm. You can't possibly mean Steve Yun, since his degree is in creative writing, and his only other noteworthy experience was a brief stint as a digital animator. Tommy Yune actually went to a really good art school... the problem is he just can't do sci-fi. He was fine s'long as he was doing someone else's universe (Speed Racer, Superman), but ask him to create original sci-fi content and you're out of luck. Yeah, that's Kevin McKeever for you. Shame so many fans aspire to repeat his feat of getting hired by HG by kissing as much ass as possible. Just look at MEMO. Tommy Yune did that one Buster the Amazing Bear series that was supposedly really good, but other than that he's done nothing noteworthy or remarkable. His time as Robotech creative director has been marked mostly by reuse of Sentinels concepts dreamed up by Carl Macek and the Waltrips. Everyone else's credentials are a cavalcade of mediocrity.

The weird part is it's one of those spontaneous injuries with no explanation, like Vince's broken leg in RTSC. She was on the bridge, and the battle damage was all at the prow. The bridge was pristine, but somehow she suffered massive internal injuries that kept her wheelchair-bound for a year and caused her to miscarry.