Seto Kaiba

I've been told that by Kevin McKeever and several moderators over the last year or so. I don't think they actually believe they do, though. If they did, they wouldn't be going to such lengths to avoid using it.

Not at all... if I were a Robotech fan I'd be thanking Chronicle's editor for letting me lick his shoes while his staff take turns beating me over the head a masonry trowel and a steel bucket full of rancid manure. Not necessarily just the english-speaking fanbase, but for the entire fanbase worldwide. Even in the western world, there are precious few fans who have access to any of the sources, so even those who can get their hands on Chronicle and actually read it would stand to learn rather a lot... the list of english-speaking people who actually have access to all the original printed works seems to number exactly two people... myself and Yoshi. A diligently assembled condensation of This is Animation Special #5 and Entertainment Bible 51 would've been a huge step in the right direction... but alas, with Chronicle paying very little attention to the details of Macross II. It's looking more and more like the task of condensing the official sources into one decently detailed collection is going to fall to me after all... As far as US Renditions goes, I have a seat reserved for them in a particularly unpleasant circle of hell, because they're the ones who did such a shoddy job with the translation, and got a lot of the timeline information wrong.

Of course not... but we can at least expect them to do a halfway competent job condensing the materials available to them... and the Macross II mecha aren't even getting that much. Actually, I think it's quite fair. Both were prominently featured in their respective titles, yet the Valkyrie II's mechanics sheet looks to be every bit as lacking in basic information as the other Macross II mecha sheets. Drat... now where did I put my good jumping boots... You're right, I'm not looking for new and/or hidden information. It would've been a nice bonus, the icing on the cake as it were... but I would've been quite happy with a decent condensation of the available sources. Something that would fill in the gaps for the people who don't have access to all the rare publications I do, and correct (with some authority) all of the pants-on-head imbecilic things US Renditions and company have published about it in the intervening years. After several years working closely with automakers, I've reached the point where I crave competence... simple competence... in any field from adultery to zoology... something I'm not getting from Chronicle's Macross II pages.

Nope... the VF-2SS was rolled out in 2081 AD. So, what you're saying is that it's entirely unfair of me to expect this "basic encyclopedia of Macross" to include basic information from the show's creators? It's not a question of esoterica like novelizations and side-stories... this was a major animated production done for the 10th Anniversary. It's not like the information they're omitting is deep, dark, hidden secret intelligence either... most of it is available in multiple official artbooks, but it's still being omitted. It's like if they did a SDF-1 Macross mechanics sheet, but left out everything about the ship's origins. What value does a basic encyclopedia have if it doesn't include basic, readily available information? Would you leap to the defense of Webster's if they released a dictionary that didn't cover any words starting with F? Errors I can forgive... hell, I wouldn't mind half as much if they were at least consistent with their screwups. That's just the thing... I'm not expecting new information from Chronicle. All I was expecting was a decent condensation of the various official artbooks with a couple pretty pictures by Tenjin Hidetaka to sweeten the deal... and even with my expectations THAT low, I'm still getting disappointed.

Well... I'm contemplating violence... Exactly as predicted, Macross Chronicle totally phoned it in with the VF-2SS Valkyrie II mecha sheet. I didn't even have to wait for my copy to arrive to start spotting errors... the preview images on the official website were enough to reveal that for the second time in a row, Chronicle's writers couldn't even get the year right. Even more embarrassing, they can't seem to even stick to one incorrect year... the Mardook People article gave the year as 2091, and the VF-2SS article as 2090... I'm bracing myself for a real waste of my time and money... betting they didn't include anything about its predecessors or its development history.

Not that I can tell... Robotech.com's terms of use pretty much make a thread like this one impossible... they don't even allow fans to ask questions about the status of their legal claim to Macross. If there is one, it's got to be in the officer's forums, where the general public can't see it. and then everybody was trolled... I guess after twenty years with nothing decent to show for itself, Robotech fans are just so fed up they'll staple anything to Robotech with a flimsy excuse just so they can feel like the show hasn't been totally forgotten.

To his credit, if he'd left out the sillyness of the "antimatter bomb" (it's got some technobabble that puts Star Trek's writers to shame) it actually would've been a reasonably decent miniseries. The overall feel is very "James Bond meets Indiana Jones". Tommy can draw, but the man's writing leaves something to be desired. Eh... I'm really really glad I waited until you finished editing that before I started posting a reply... I was about to start verbally tearing you several new orifices. I suppose the die-hard Robotech fans do think I'm a conspiracy theorist, but so far none of them have attempted to tell me that I'm not very well-informed. It's not much of a conspiracy theory either... since something like 2/3 of the fans are well aware that Harmony Gold is grossly exaggerating Robotech's popularity, and Shadow Chronicles got them asking a lot of uncomfortable questions about Harmony Gold's ability to use Macross intellectual property in future productions. It's not like I'm on a crusade for the truth or anything... I just pop up whenever I see a Harmony Gold staffer living in that bizarre fantasy world they so often occupy and give them a nice sharp slap to return them to reality. I realize they're trying to make it appear that exciting things are happening, and that they're doing well (nobody wants to ride a sinking ship down), but I just don't think it's right to misrepresent the state of the franchise to the fans, and that is essentially what they're doing by claiming that Robotech is wildly popular and successful. I guess if you're really looking for a label to apply to me, I'm the guy who points out the flaws in the crackpot conspiracy theories, not the conspiracy theorist. Eh... you could make a case for it ether way. The Combat/Conbat and VF-X-4 already look fairly similar. He did do some fairly unimaginative new designs.

Is it just me, or does the top-down view of the Gamma fighter remind anyone else of that messenger ship from the Macross Galaxy fleet in Macross Frontier? All in all, it looks a lot like a boxier, Mospeada-esque VF-4, with a stockier battroid mode. Nothing to write home about, and certainly not a 100% original design. Still, certainly a step in the right direction, trying to make something new that isn't pointlessly generic.

Absolutely, but there's nothing wrong with introducing Robotech fans to Macross and then setting those newly minted Macross fans loose here. I wouldn't go that far... for many, Robotech is an introduction to anime that leads them to pursue more sophisticated titles later on. Sure, Robotech's creators are in denial about the fact that they don't actually own Macross, and are even more deeply in denial about the fact that their magnum opus has largely been forgotten, but that's just an unfortunate fact of life. The Battle of the Planets franchise seems to have up and died... the upcoming CGI movie is based directly upon the Japanese version (Science Ninja Team Gatchaman) and is being done by Imagi Animation Studios and Warner Brothers. It looks like the rights to the show were obtained directly from the Japanese creators. I suppose it would be akin to Harmony Gold losing the rights to Macross, effectively killing the franchise once and for all. I can see Harmony Gold potentially losing the western rights to Macross, but they'll never give up their pet project Robotech. Even if they lose the rights to Macross, they'll just keep doing what they've been doing, basing their future works on Southern Cross and Mospeada.

While it is tempting to let the moderators ride roughshod over the Robotech fanbase, it just doesn't sit right with me to do nothing while good people are abused by idiots in authority they don't deserve. I know I'm not going to be able to change anything over there, I just pipe up every now and then to point out the lies, half-truths, and exaggerations when the bullshit starts getting too thick for me to stand. Believe it or not, I don't actually hate Robotech. I acknowledge that it was instrumental in igniting western interest in anime. I also acknowledge that it's a crudely executed amalgam of three shows that were never intended to be together, and that time has been distinctly unkind to it, rendering it an all-but-forgotten piece of 80's pop culture that failed to thrive and grow beyond its origins. I would be interested to see an all-new, all-original Robotech with no ties to Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada... and I know full well it will never happen. I go to Robotech.com for one reason, to answer the questions that the fans are asking about the show's origins, its universe, and its future prospects. Better they get an honest answer from me than fallacy-ridden crap from people like Treiz and Jeebers... and when they do eventually say "Enough of this poo! I want something better!" I'll be there with a friendly smile and some information about Macross. I've personally introduced something like seventy Robotech fans to Macross over the last five years... and almost all have come back to learn more after their first taste.

It's not an orchestrated attempt to cause trouble over there, not by any means. Just the few of us who still have accounts over there complaining about the unfair treatment we're receiving at the hands of the moderators for making what are by all evidence completely accurate statements about the current position of the franchise, and its future prospects. We're just appalled by the fact that Robotech.com's moderators are so dedicated to quashing any criticism of Robotech that they delete posts, lock threads, and ban people for giving opinions that don't even violate the site's terms of use. It's like a god damn police state over there...

Now that doesn't surprise me. Most of Robotech.com's moderators are quick to lock threads that are critical of Robotech, but look the other way when Robotech fans bash Macross. Right now, there's only one moderator who's a regular on there who I can actually say I can respect... MEMO1DOMINION. The only other two regular moderators, Seifrietti Weisse and Maverick_LSC, have this unpleasant tendency of stepping up to defend people flamebaiting Macross fans, and stopping people from posting legitimate criticism of Robotech.

Robotech fans have issues with the truth... they're as deep in denial as it's possible to be. Are you sure we're talking about the same Robotech.com? If I could pick words to describe the site, "overcrowded" and "thronging" would not be among them... quiet as a grave over there most of the time.

I too am interested to hear this... what did you post that so offended them?

For as long as I've been on Robotech.com, people there have been suggesting that Tommy was the one who got Steve the webmaster job (despite his only experience being a BA in creative writing) because they're brothers. I've only attempted to watch it three times. Usually I stop about halfway through out of sheer boredom. Yeah, they've been doing that ever since the movie came out. It's usually the die-hard, fanatical Robotech fans who spend their free time complaining about Macross shows they've never seen, who pop up to insist that the fact that Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles feels like an overlong game intro cutscene is actually appropriate because it's the first installment in an ongoing story. Fortunately, there are very few people who do that... Jeebers is one of them. Treiz is another.

Where're you coming up with 90,000 people? The military crew of the Macross was 20,000 people, most of whom are presumably living in navy-style bunkrooms in the midsection of the ship. The civilian population living in the ship's improvised city section numbered only 58,000 people at the start of the war. The crews of ARMD-01 and ARMD-02, as well as the pilots stationed aboard them, are likely living aboard their ships most of the time. The way it stacks up, the total population that HAS to be living aboard the Macross (the crew and civilians) is at most 78,000 people, only three quarters of which are actually permanent residents of the city. Yes, the population density in the city section is a bit extreme, but the city has an extremely unconventional layout (being built in tiers, and occupying something like half the ship, where gravity is not a huge issue). The city does seem a bit larger than it ought to be, but that's just dramatic license.

Your rant would've been a LOT easier on the eyes if it wasn't one stupendously huge paragraph. Break it up a bit next time, it'll be easier for everyone else to read. Occasionally, I have cause to wonder why Harmony Gold was willing to settle for Tommy Yune. When he joined the Robotech franchise, his entire portfolio consisted of a couple adventure games (The Journeyman Chronicles series), a brief stint working on Superman Y2K, the comic adaptations of Speed Racer, and a Danger Girl miniseries. All in all, not the most impressive resume for a creative director. I'm guessing he was merely the best of a small group of applicants. It's not like Robotech creative director was/is a hugely prestigious position. He was probably the best they could find who was willing to do the job. EDIT: If anything, Danger Girl: Kamakaze ought to have been an indicator of how bad Yune's attempts to "improve" Robotech would be... the plot revolves around a Japanese fascist group left over from World War 2 (though one with paradoxically Communist insignia) who stole a germanium-based antimatter bomb made during the final months before the Japanese surrender (you may now "WTF").

Actually, it's a huge stretch to try and fit the production model VF-4 into Robotech, because the official line on the VF-4 in Robotech is that it was NEVER mass-produced, and in fact only one or two prototypes were ever built. You, sir, frighten me.

Yeah, they blamed the project's failure on Netter Digital having gone bankrupt earlier that same year. EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, there's an alarming trend of companies going bankrupt and/or out of business shortly after acquiring a license to produce Robotech products. A tidy little microcosm of the entire franchise, more like.

Robotech 3000 is pretty much ironclad proof that Harmony Gold's creative staff was terminally incompetent even before the changing of the guard that brought us Tommy Yune. For the last time, that model is a VF-X-4 prototype, not a production model VF-4. The production model VF-4 does NOT appear in Robotech, and it is the production model VF-4 that the URRG attempts to add to the Robotech universe.

Nope, it never does. Yes, Robotech 3000 was set in the year 3000.

An odd choice... considering Robotech's timeline has never really gone past 2044. No, it's not. The production model VF-4 first appeared in Macross: Flashback 2012. It's the VF-X-4 prototype that briefly appears in Super Dimension Fortress Macross as a scale model. I'm reasonably certain it does not appear in DYRL. In any event, the URRG's VF-4 entry does not use the VF-X-4, it uses the completed VF-4 design with the Kawamori-designed battroid mode from VF-X, and cites This is Animation Special: Macross Plus and Macross Digital Mission VF-X as its sources. EDIT: The article's remarks section even explicitly mentions that the completed VF-4 design "never appeared in Robotech".

Why go that far? Just file a copyright infringement claim against the site with Yahoo! Geocities. It's really an odd dichotomy. Robotech fans so often profess to hate Macross and regard many Macross fans as elitist, but so many of them spend their free time trying to expand the Robotech universe by grafting mechanical designs, characters, and stories from unrelated universes onto Robotech's original series. As I've illustrated in the past, there is that small segment of Robotech fans who are convinced that Macross is a ripoff of Robotech. I also know a few groups of Robotech fans who are convinced that the best way for Robotech to move forward is to rewrite more of Macross. It's these two groups that indulge in the blatant and often senseless practice of trying to rewrite and incorporate the rest of Macross into Robotech's universe, and occasionally other shows as well. Possibly the least offensive of the Unofficial Robotech Reference Guide, which openly admits that it isn't intended to be a reference for the "official" Robotech universe, but rather is an overly detailed supplement to their series of fan fiction. What makes them stand out is that they pursued it from a scholarly angle, and that there are very few mecha included that do not belong to the animation used in Robotech's original series (the VF-4 Siren/Lightning III being the only one that leaps to mind). All the same, many Robotech fans don't seem to realize that it its articles aren't intended to apply to Robotech itself, and keep trying to cite it as some grand official source to rival the Macross Compendium.

Actually, as far as I'm aware the "thinking cap" is something McKinney came up with. Carl Macek gabbled on a bit about protoculture causing an "empathetic" link between man and machine, but it was the McKinney novels that made it a piece of technology integral to the control of a battroid. Of course, even Robotech fans are quick to shoot that one down, citing the fact that neither the dialogue nor the animation supports the existence of such a technology in the series. There was actually a big, overly verbose thread about it not too long ago. If you think Robotech fans have a persecution complex when confronted with Macross... it's NOTHING compared to the persecution complex the McKinneyist Robotech fans have developed because of the fanbase's general antipathy towards anything associated with McKinney. I guess you could argue that Robotech fans are only emulating the show's creators when they're stealing everything that isn't nailed down and/or on fire and trying to graft it onto Robotech. These days, it's virtually impossible to find a Robotech fansite that hasn't stolen something from one of the later Macross shows, or any of a host of other mecha shows. Even the much-lauded (among RT fans) Unofficial Robotech Reference Guide includes a bunch of mecha that aren't even in Robotech. The sad part is it's one of the more conservative ones... I've seen Robotech fans trying to incorporate mecha, characters, and stories from as far afield as Neon Genesis Evangelion and Godannar.

You did a good job of not flaming... but Maverick_LSC apparently didn't like what I had to say, so he locked the thread. Someone might wanna remind that poor chap that Sentinels was canceled and never finished, and Untold Story never got released like it was supposed to (because it bombed its test screening), so there really has only been one Robotech continuation. Kind of hilarious that the only joke name for RTSC that offended him was Tommy Yune's Day Off. Not even the baldfaced implication that Tommy Yune was a bad a writer as Ed Wood... just a simple reference to Ferris Bueler's Day Off.