Seto Kaiba

Okay... yeah... that does say that the Anti-U.N.'s SV-51 was picked up by the U.N. and used until the introduction of the VF-11 Thunderbolt. Does the Wiki provide a source for that?

Be glad they didn't give Macross II's continuity total coverage... you'd have to endure two sets of sheets for every VF-1 variant except the VF-1X, and three new variants on top of that!

Is it really over-the-top to explain my concerns about the accuracy of a potential alternate universe timeline sheet? I'd be inclined to say "no". Perhaps you're mistaking my habitually detailed answers for drama? I'm a scholar by nature, backing up my assertions and being precise are deeply ingrained habits. Wait... how am I the bad guy here? You asked your question. You got an answer... and then you complained about it and started playing devil's advocate about whether or not the errors were intended to be "corrections". This would've ended six posts ago if you hadn't made a fuss about my thoughts on a potential Macross II timeline sheet. I don't hate it by any means, it just annoys me every now and again by throwing obviously-incorrect data my way when I hope against hope that it'll add something of value to my understanding of the OVA and its universe instead. Of course, in the context of my currently-ongoing discussion with Mr March, I find myself profoundly grateful that all the screwups in the articles I'm looking at are little ones... the guy writing the VF-19F/S sheets could see Port Good Article without a magnifying glass, but got overenthusiastic and landed at the Cockup Peninsula instead.

Eh, any exposure for Macross II is a good thing... but the only kind of coverage that's good for ANY Macross title is accurate coverage. Coverage that isn't accurate, and clearly does not represent what it's the animation or production materials is not good content. I've put rather a lot of time and effort in against fixing all of the idiot mistakes Palladium made, and now Chronicle is throwing a few more onto the pile for me. Hmmm... could it possibly be that these "revisions" you keep gabbing on about clearly and blatantly contradict what's shown in the animation and production materials? If Chronicle said that Hikaru married Minmay not Misa, would that make it correct? Of course not! It wouldn't make any sense, and it would contradict the series. The few things that we can say with 100% certainty are intentional changes are usually done for an obvious and logical reason... often to make the official stats more readily conform to what's shown when they're depicted. These are good, sound changes that SHOULD be made. I have no complaints about these. Then you have the things that are obviously typos... where you can clearly see what went awry, and the end result makes no sense and contradicts the article. You also the blatant ass-pulls... things which clearly made it through editorial because they couldn't find official data in time, and they absolutely needed to have something there. These are often things where an official answer which is both well-precedented and reflects the animation exists, but is simply too obscure for them to have found quickly and easily. Now, what I'm taking issue with here is those "changes" that fall into the third category... where they're obvious and blatant ass-pulls that clearly contradict what's shown in the animation and production line art, and were clearly done because they couldn't find an official answer. If it's a choice between a Macross Chronicle answer that doesn't match what's in the animation and an old, well-precedented answer from the show's creators that does reflect what's in the animation... determining which is the correct answer should be a no-brainer. (free hint, it ain't the one in Chronicle) Now y'see... you're digging deep into hypotheticals here. There's no indication that they're doing that. None at all. The Macross II sources are, as I am usually the first to admit, quite obscure. Exhaustive research takes time, and on deadlines like theirs, sometimes you just can't swing it. Some of it is quite embarrassing, like the VF-2SS and VA-1SS armaments, which could easily have been done right by looking at the line-art they were printing on the sheet anyway. By in large, Macross Chronicle's writers haven't dicked with the Macross II setting. The vast majority of "changes" made fall into the first category... new information that brings the mecha closer to what the animation and the line art shows. This is good coverage, and I'm thankful for every bit of it that we get. The reason I'm so down on the idea of a Macross II timeline is, as I've said MANY times already, because if they had the sources necessary to do that and make it reflect what the official Macross II continuity actually contains, then they wouldn't have had to do most of the handful of ass-pulls that've made the cut. If they did go ahead with the Macross II timeline sheet anyway, I would have legitimate cause to worry, since they would have no alternative than to do a massive ass-pull... possibly omitting important events that are integral to the story of the Macross II OVA and the continuity as a whole. At the risk of pointing out the obvious... that would be a bad thing. Y'know Sketchley, in the spirit of total honesty I really do have to say that I'm finding your attempts to tell me that I have no grounds to be annoyed by the inaccurate coverage Macross II is receiving kind of rude. It's like you're telling me that I'm not entitled to an opinion of my own, or that I'm not allowed to care about things like whether the coverage accurately reflects the contents of the OVA. If I'm going to pay to support this publication... and then pay a further premium on that to get it shipped to me overseas, then I think I'm entitled to express my concerns about the accuracy of its coverage. Don't you?

Maybe you're confusing it with the Octos, which was picked up by the U.N. after the U.N. Wars.

It would be hilarious if it were true. Coincidentally, it also goes a long way towards proving that the Robotech comic books sell bugger-all... after all, if these people side with Leonard, they ought to find Tommy's comic book depictions of Leonard as being a morally-bankrupt traitor working to destroy with UEG from within offensive in the extreme... yet they don't seem to even be aware of it... ;-) Of course not... why do you think Shadow Chronicles was made like a cheap knockoff of Battlestar Galactica with all the depth of a teaspoon. All the Robotech fans care about is cool giant robots, killing evil aliens, and Macross Saga characters. Eh... as someone who, despite his best efforts not to, still has a good deal of contact with the Robotech fanbase, I'd say Gubaba's probably pretty close to the truth in terms of the number of fan projects. The majority of Robotech's fan projects were done BEFORE Robotech.com opened, and no longer exist now that Geocities has discontinued its free webhosting service. The overwhelming majority of such projects were RPG expansions and fan-fictions which attempted to build up Robotech's universe by stealing content from elsewhere (the particular favorites appear to have been Macross and Gundam). Nowadays, the majority of fan-works authors aren't doing it for the chance to make something of quality... they're doing it to get a free ten points towards their next "promotion" on Robotech.com, and consequentially the quality of their work is god-awful. You could count the number of Robotech fan projects out there that aren't half-assed on one hand... UEG's Robotech Genesis is gone, Atlantech and Destroid's Last Dance abandoned the Robotech setting entirely... the only ones left are that recent live short and Zen72's Protoculture Times podcast/blog. You've got a couple dozen independent projects out there that are garbage-quality and/or will never get anywhere... like MEMO's plans for a "Robotech Codex", MEMO's "Vermillion Productions" fan-film, Brian Mcafee's Robotech Anthology, and the podcasts of Doug Bendo and JuanRT.

'kay... I'm not sure how my answer could possibly have been unclear the last two times I gave it. You're usually a pretty sharp guy, so I figured you of all people would get it right away... lemme quote the important part from my previous post. The important bits are in bold for your convenience: So, yes... like I've said, I would have good cause to be surprised if Macross Chronicle suddenly pulled a 180 in their attitude towards Macross II coverage and decided to cover all of the relevant continuity information they've been gleefully ignoring for the magazine's entire print run thus far. They've been ignoring it for around 46 issues now, so suddenly acknowledging it would be rather unexpected. If the writers at Macross Chronicle had all of this at their disposal from the very beginning, why would they wait until now to use it? It would've gone a LONG way towards bringing the quality of the Macross II mechanic sheets up to the same standard as those for the main continuity's mecha. If it is a Macross II-related continuity sheet (and the odds of that are rather slim) then it's a fairly safe bet that it'll be a MASSIVE ass-pull rather than anything resembling accurate coverage. No such possibility, I'm afraid... unless of course you're suggesting that Macross II's creators didn't know their own show, and that everything they produced including the production line art and the final animation is wrong. The sources which come directly from the OVA's creators are consistent with the animation and each other. Macross Chronicle is not. Just think... if Sketchley's right and Chronicle's writers are going to cover Macross II's continuity, you could be in for a whole second set of development histories for the VF-1A, VF-1D, VF-1J, VF-1S, VT-1, and VE-1! Doesn't that just thrill you to death?

Okay... so, another vocal Robotech fan is living down to our expectations for his kind by displaying the same kind of fiery wit and razor-sharp intellect more commonly encountered in fungi, pencil erasers, and particle board furniture? Business as usual. Honestly... I can't believe that the Robotech fanbase attracts that many idiots by coincidence. Maybe Carl and the guys started cloning gullible fanboys in a lab under Harmony Gold HQ to keep themselves in a job. Y'know Wanz, your energetic defense of Jonathan Wolfe and his role in the Malcontent Uprisings comics starts to ring a bit false after you notice that you've yet to spell the man's name properly. It's "Wolfe", not "Wolff". Indeed... when you think about it, that's a bit of a mindf*** right there from Wanzerfan's PoV.

Eh... I still have a hard time visualizing all these later models of transforming battleship as being made up of a bunch of different ships stuck together. It was plausible enough with the original ship and ARMDs (and its ad hoc replacements in Super Dimension Fortress Macross), but to have every single part be a different ship just raises all sorts of really uncomfortable questions about practicality. Do these things all have separate propulsion systems too? All I'm left with is the bizarre mental image of a single left arm, complete with flight deck (but no hangars) sailing toward the enemy fleet. Okay... I'm not sure why you're asking, since the answer to your question is in the part of my post that you quoted, but whatever... I'll play ball. Like I've already said, it'd be a real surprise if they suddenly turned around and tried to cover Macross II's continuity because they've been pointedly ignoring all but the most basic stuff. Apart from their single mention of the Takachihof company, there's nothing to indicate that they know about or care about the backstory which Macross II's creators made for the OVA. Even basic details that could gone a long way towards making the handful of Macross II articles better are wrong or missing. Just to give a few quick examples: The SNN Valkyrie mechanic sheet makes no mention of the aircraft's manufacturer, year of introduction, designation, or design predecessor. The VF-2SS Valkyrie II mechanic sheet presents no development history, has incorrect information for the fighter's armaments, and displays an incorrect progression in the development chart. The Weapons of the Mardook mechanic sheet displays incorrect sizes for all of the mecha... several of which are as much as 50% larger than the sizes provided by Macross II's creators. That aside, the Glossary sheets don't even mention the alternate universe VFs and ships, except for those which appear in the Macross II OVA... no Daedalus II-class ARMD, no VF-1R Valkyrie, and no VF-4 Siren. As those are all pretty damn important to the continuity, I think we can safely say that there's not going to be much (if any) real coverage of the Macross II continuity in the remaining timeline sheets. Our best bet is that it's a three-parter which covers just DYRL or something along those lines.

Y'know what... I'm sorry I asked. Maybe I'm too sane to understand, or my rational thinking and sense of perspective is getting in the way, but I just can't imagine why anyone would give a damn about a one-dimensional, one-episode character like Jonathan Wolfe. That there are people who not only care about such an insignificant character, but also about his whereabouts during a show that he isn't part of and has no business being in scares the piss out of me. Interacting with these strange creatures is a lot like what I imagine going on holiday to Bizarro World would be like... the locals are speaking a strange language that is both recognizable and subtly wrong, and they all have completely alien concepts of what constitutes "fun" and "entertainment". Or they'll just say that it "sold out", and duck the question of how many copies were in their EXTREMELY limited print run.

Or perhaps a better term might be "modules"? Not terribly surprising... arm, arm, leg, leg, core block, gunship. If they're all ships capable of independent action, then I'm waiting for a pinpoint-barrier-rocket-punch. Hey... if we take the Destroid technology sheet at face value there's already a mobile anti-ship turret... we call it the HWR-00 Mk.II Monster. Still, that certainly explains how they were able to convert a Ghost into a two-man spacecraft around ~2046 (Macross 7 Trash). It's a LOT bigger than I thought it would be. I can't say I'm all that surprised about the Lancer's .5kt reaction munitions... I'm actually surprised the yield wasn't higher given the animation. Nice... now that I'm looking forward to. Now that'll make Mr March a happy man... Me too... though the name makes me think it's unlikely that it could be the Neld fleet incident. It sounds more like they want to either expand upon other Zentradi encounters outside the animated continuity (like the ones in VF-X and M3?). I'd be surprised as hell if, after ignoring the official timeline published by Macross II's creators for something like forty-five issues, they suddeny pull a 180 and reference all the material they've been ignoring. To me, it seems a good deal more likely that, if they're going to cover the Macross II continuity, the timeline sheet(s) for it will be one massive ass-pull.

Hey, let's not forget the book's potential as toilet paper or kindling for a campfire. It's got to have some value there too... though for some reason that leaves me remembering the baseball episode of Excel Saga and the part about the color inserts from weekly magazines... Oh, most anything Robotech has some marketable value so long as you can locate a fanboy dim-witted or curious enough to buy it. Of course, since those people are rare and getting rarer, I don't think they really have much value even to Robotech fans, and no value at all to anyone who isn't a Robotech fan. The smart Robotech fan (if such a creature could be said to exist) would simply look around on the net for one of those RAR files containing CBRs of all of the pre-Wildstorm Robotech comics, artbooks, and RPG books, and get the lot for free.

What the...? Is this a corrected sheet, or what? Oh god, I hope it isn't... I don't think I could take seeing a Macross II timeline in Chronicle put together in as lame a fashion as the Metal Siren sheet. For full-on weirdness, the Issue 48 preview on the Macrossf.com blog has worldguide 22... the Mardook.

Lemme guess... "ninja Miriya" killed it for you? Less than worthless, in practical terms, since the reissues continue to deplete their resale value and there really isn't any actual merit to the story. It's just another attempt to shake the Macross Saga down for a few more bucks. Almost certainly... whatever anon did that definitely has way too much time on his (or her) hands.

While the idea of Macross and Yamato side by side is an interesting one, I'm somewhat concerned about where the middle gun barrel on that is pointed.

Seems that way... Really, I can't imagine how that could possibly come as a surprise to anyone. On paper, the so-called "Shadow Saga" is supposed to be a stand-alone fourth saga in the Robotech universe, but in practice the Shadow Chronicles story (and Prelude in particular) are nothing more than a poorly camouflaged continuation of the Robotech II: the Sentinels "movie" and comics. Unfortunately, since the Wildstorm comics formed the basis of Tommy's continuity reboot... they are, for all practical purposes, canon.

Unfortunately, you are... it's just another one of Harmony Gold's shameless attempts to milk the more gullible members of the Robotech fanbase for a few more dollars without doing any actual work... made all the more amusing by the fact that they're trotting this out as "new" material to celebrate the 25th Anniversary.

Steel Battalion... that game was an overpriced, badly-engineered clusterfart with the controller from hell but, god help me, I loved every second of it.

Why am I suddenly tempted to break out into a chorus of "Circle" by Harry Chapin? Really, you don't have to hope for that... it's pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point. If they ever manage to get the lurching atrocity that is the Robotech live-action movie into production, the legal ramifications of adapting those sagas and the pruning necessary to get it down to two hours or thereabouts virtually guarantees that the end result will bear practically no resemblance to what the fans are familiar with regardless of how much reverence the film crew has for the "original" Robotech. By Robotech's standards, ANY new product coming out... even if it's just a blatant repackage of an old product... is still progress.

You really do need to have a bit of history with the online Robotech fanbase to fully appreciate how rare something like JT's Protoculture Times podcast is. The vast majority of Robotech fans just don't have the talent, the inclination, or the patience to create something that doesn't suck. Any attempt to do something like the Macross Compendium or the Macross Mecha Manual for Robotech is almost guaranteed to fail because the continuity is in such total disarray that the canonicity of any particular Robotech title is almost entirely a matter of personal opinion. The closest they have is the uRRG, and that only maintains some coherency because it's intended to be a reference for a fan-fiction series, not the universe of the series. Blogs and podcasts are frequently no better off since their hosts seldom try to make any real effort to do something of substance, more often than not choosing to fall back on kissing Harmony Gold's ass in hopes of gaining legitimacy and an audience. Zen's podcast stands out not because it's a remarkable example of podcasting, but rather because he's attained a reasonable level of success and garnered the favorable notice of a great many people without kowtowing to Harmony Gold or having to invest in toothpaste and mouthwash specifically formulated to remove buttock smell. Unsurprising, to say the least... JuanRT is a good friend of MEMO's, so of course he's adopting MEMO's usual attitude of "MacrossWorld people are the devil!".

I've borrowed the first few chapters of the light novel, and while it didn't exactly wow me in print I can definitely see some potential for awesomeness in the animated adaptation.

It is, a bit, isn't it? It's a shame .

Eh, I'd make that tiny bit of effort for Sentinels, if only because it was, is, and likely always will be the only part of Robotech's canon/pseudocanon universe that has anything resembling original content. It might be horribly campy, corny, dated, and stupid original content... but beggars (Robotech fans) can't be choosers. Are you sure? Considering how the dialogue in his podcast has more "ummmmmmmmmm" than a Buddhist monastery, there'd be no way to tell if he devoted an episode to it or not. Even if he did, the only thing that would come of it would be his three serious listeners nodding in agreement, and the rest of us laughing ourselves sick at his stupidity. Really, it's a mixed bag... sure, some of the pro-Robotech mental cases seem to have had a few screws loose even before they got involved with Harmony Gold's sinking ship, but you gotta give credit where credit is due and acknowledge the malicious manipulative streak of Harmony Gold's "Robotech team" in their many attempts to keep their fans as ignorant of Robotech's origins as possible and stir up hostility towards fans of the originals.

Yeah, pretty much it doesn't say anything that couldn't have been gleaned from watching the movie trailer. On the subject of the micro-missile launchers, it seems to have eight of them built into the pack's wing surface... six on the dorsal surface, and two on the ventral surface.

Try spelling his name correctly next time... Bah... now THERE'S a stupendous waste of time in the making. It'd be an enormous waste of time and money to pursue dougbendo in court for slander. It'd be easy enough to prove malice and that there are mooks out there who are stupid enough to believe his garbage (Maverick, MEMO, etc.), but it'd all come to nothing in the end. He's a BestBuy sales floor minion, so the odds of me being able to recover enough in monetary damages to cover the costs of bringing suit against him are slim at best. In the end, it's just not worth it. He's a powerless TalkShoe guttersnipe who's trying desperately to compensate for the powerlessness he feels in his soul-crushing menial job by being an internet tough guy. EDIT: and don't even get me started on the Freudian implications of his penis fixation... Indeed... those Starship Troopers movies with Casper van Dien were atrocious... though you'd probably like the 1988 Studio Nue Starship Troopers OVA. It's the closest any adaptation has come to the story of the novel, right down to the Marauder armor.