Seto Kaiba
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Chill, man. I know. I wasn't getting on your case, I was just making the point that the problem isn't the Macross Compendium's fault either... like the Macross Mecha Manual, it got its information from "somewhere else". Like every English-language Macross site, its information isn't just from other sources, it has to be filtered through a translator first. Wording slips like this happen because what flows naturally and logically in one language doesn't necessarily do so in others, and restructuring a sentence to retain its meaning while making it flow clearly and naturally in another language is something some translators struggle with. (Incidentally, M3 isn't my site... I just provide the hosting and contribute the occasional bit of art stock or translation. It's Mr March's baby, I'm just the babysitter.) I'd love to go in any correct some of those unclear areas, and maybe flesh out some of the entries with new material from Macross Frontier movie 2, etc. Talos and I have a bit of a list going, and I've got 216 new pieces of fan-art waiting to go up... but I wanna get Mr March's approval before I start poking around. I'd welcome your input on potential changes, since you do a lot more with main timeline stuff than I do. IIRC, doesn't Global also use the "Mac-ross" pronunciation when he calls the Macross Attack in DYRL?
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Ah, lol... this is about ten years before Gundam SEED tho.
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's just a little bit of fan-service.
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Nah, it actually spanned the whole movie... but I had to throw out quite a few scenes just to make it small enough to load in a reasonable amount of time on a high-speed connection.
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Hell, I can't think of a better way of illustrating just how many fanservice shots there were in Shadow Chronicles than that collage I'd thrown together for a previous RT & HG thread. It was so large in the end that I couldn't upload it here as an attachment, it had to be hotlinked in from elsewhere. Unlikely, the original televised cut of Robotech was edited to remove the more gratuitous bits like that... the only thing that changed afterward was they reinserted all the stuff they cut for the "Remastered" edition. Southern Cross was pretty heavy on the fanservice, probably to compensate for its deficiencies in pretty much every other category.
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Yeah, so did the Macross Compendium. What's your point? Yep... in the Macross II continuity, the different order of events put forward by the movie and subsequent timeline pushed Komilia's date of birth back to 2019. So, at the time of her starring role as an adult in Macross 2036, she was 17 years old and not quite done with her pilot training course.
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You're thinkin' of the VF-9E's pilot, Nicolas Berthier.
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Well, the VF-X that we see in the original Macross series doesn't look all that different from a normal VF-1... y'know, the one we see in Claudia's little flashback sequence.
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You're doing it wrong... you have to say my name three times, like in Beetlejuice. Sadly, there don't appear to be any plan views of the VF-2JA out there. I assure you that if there were, I would've made sure of their inclusion in the Macross Mecha Manual's Macross II coverage. It's a minor background mecha, so it doesn't really get much in the way of coverage... whereas the Valkyrie II has plan views both with and without its Super Armed Pack. Yeah, the Valkyrie II's transformation is also set up such that it makes the battroid taller than the fighter mode is long, which is a bit unusual as well. I do think putting it next to the longest VF might do a bit to overstate its small size though. For those who care, the above-posted size comparison is from This is Animation Special #5: Macross II pg79. Admittedly, some of the toys and models don't do a great job of matching the official information... my personal (least) favorite is the 1/250 collection's VF-2SS, which lists the fighter mode length as 15.2m, a figure that doesn't match the animation materials. That size comparison shows a fighter-mode length (w/ Super Armed Pack) of 14m on the nose... which jives with the official data. The line art shows the fighter itself is slightly shorter than the length with the SAP barrel, and computes out to 13.505m when you work from the size comparison. Macross Chronicle declines to list a size for it in the stats block on its mechanic sheet, but its own size comparison shows the Valkyrie II at about the same size as a VF-1. (Admittedly, Macross Chronicle's coverage of Macross II was spotty and inaccurate to say the least...)
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Isn't "audacious" a bit strong for it? If I had to pick one word to describe the Auroran, it definitely wouldn't be "audacious"... it would be "esoteric". C'mon... it's a transforming Sikorsky X-Wing with a working rotor. As aerodynamic oddities go, that's well up there. More or less... it's certainly no stretch to call Shadow Chronicles Tommy's Sentinels fan-fiction.
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Good question... you'll get as many answers as there are people answering, but most of them boil down to some permutation on the theme of "because Kawamori wasn't involved" or, as VF5SS put it, "because it was only average". Macross is a series that has built itself up on a run of exceptional shows, so Macross II criticized more than a stand-alone show of the same quality because it isn't just the one average show in a run of excellence... it's an average show that's trying to follow on from DYRL, one of the most exceptional Macross titles. Nope, I believe it's Bin Shimada or Steve Blum all the way through for Nexx Gilbert. Hibiki ended up with Sylvie because, as they correspond to the original love triangle... Hibiki = Hikaru, Sylvie = Misa, Ishtar = Minmay.
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Eh... maybe, maybe not. Let me qualify that remark then in the interest of fairness. Even when measured against the yardstick of "transforming jet fighter giant robots in space!", Southern Cross mechanical designs like the space helicopter and the tank that provides no protection for its driver induce bouts of "What were they thinking?" among the fans... to say nothing of the casual viewers.
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Harmony Gold is "starting to" hemorrhage fans from the Robotech franchise? Now that is a generous assessment. Let's not kid ourselves here... Robotech's fanbase started hemorrhaging fans around the time "Dana's Story" first went to air way back in 1985. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that the two great constants in Robotech's failed attempts to revive itself have been a loss of fans and catastrophic failure. Each and every one of Robotech's failed attempt to "regrab" a spotlight it never had to begin with has ended up costing it fans. When the Macross Saga ended and the Masters Saga started airing, the viewers threw up their hands and said "What the heck is this?"... and then the bottom fell out of the ratings when they stopped watching. When that godawful Robotech movie had its test-showing, the viewers threw up their hands and said "This is wildly inappropriate stuff for kids, and it's tied into that Masters Saga mess!"... and then the movie was quietly shelved, leaving fans with nothing new, giving them incentive to look elsewhere. When Harmony Gold tried to salvage the forcibly-aborted Robotech II: the Sentinels series by releasing the existing footage as a "movie", some fans threw up their hands and said "This is fecking awful!"... and gave up on the show. When the comic books started coming out, plenty of the fans who looked into them said "This sh!t is awful!"... and then promptly stopped following them, leading to a high cancellation rate. When the McKinney novels first dropped, plenty of the fans who looked into them said "Whatever this is, it isn't Robotech!"... and started flame wars on the internet, driving the fans of the novels out of the fandom in droves. When Carl Macek's last, desperate gasp to revive the dead horse that is Robotech manifested itself as the squeaky wet fart we've come to know as Robotech 3000, the fans threw up their hands and said "What is this? You're betraying Robotech's roots!"... and gave up on the franchise. When Tommy Yune replaced Carl Macek and rebooted the continuity by throwing out 90% of it, the fans threw up their hands and screamed "Sacrilege! How dare you defile my childhood!"... causing many to leave the fandom in irritation. When the Shadow Chronicles movie dropped, the fans threw up their hands and said "What the hell, Tommy? Half of this movie looks like it was done by a high school animation class, and the other half by a softcore porn artist!"... and not only deserted the fandom, but were forcibly removed in droves for saying so. Now Harmony Gold is stuck in a no-win scenario... with the Shadow Chronicles sequel stalled while they wait on the live action movie, they're trying to keep fans from deserting them by endlessly repeating "It's coming soon! It'll be huge!" while avoiding the unpleasant fact that it wouldn't look a damn thing like the familiar designs the fans are so hung up on for fear that they'll scream "Sacrilege!" again and desert the fandom. Yeah, our boy Tommy hasn't exactly had a ton of luck or support in his ongoing quest to "lay down the law" about what's what to a fandom that spend more than a decade deciding that for itself. Nor has he won much favor with his ongoing attempt to make the Robotech setting more like the original three shows and making Mospeada more like Macross. There's that old axiom "Don't fix what isn't broken." There should be another one, or perhaps a corollary to that to the effect of "You can't fix what's already broken beyond repair, so don't bother trying." Meh... I have to agree with Zinjo on this one. Honestly, I can't imagine a circumstance in which removing Southern Cross from the "Robotech equation" wouldn't immeasurably improve the series as a whole AND its future prospects. True, it's the central axis on which Robotech's borderline-incoherent story spins... but in what way is having the weakest and least popular saga be the most important to the story a good thing? Pinning the entire series on a perpetual poor performer like Southern Cross is a wildly lousy move if you intend to keep people watching all the way to the end. A middle arc made up of 24 agony-inducing episodes starring unlikeable characters and mechanical designs running the gambit from unremarkable to nonsensical is no way to hold onto an audience.
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So There's This Robotech Poster With Alto On It...
Seto Kaiba replied to VF-15 Banshee's topic in Movies and TV Series
http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=35118&view=findpost&p=925913 You'll find it's already under discussion in the RT & HG thread... -
Sorry you had to endure that... the voice acting in the english dub of Macross II: Lovers Again is absolutely freaking terrible. There's really no denying that. Macross II's english dub track is a relic of the early days of (mostly) faithful dubbing, so it was passable back when it first came out but generally hasn't aged well. I strongly recommend you watch that one in subs with the original Japanese audio tracks... though I'd say the same for the ADV dub of the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross, which is somehow even worse for being godawful despite having an all-star english VA cast. Meh... IMO, subs are the way to go with that one too.
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Just a minute ago, I stumbled across a reference to the term "Grenade Box Protector" in reference to the Armored Valkyrie. It's in an issue of Animag from ~1987, in a short article by James Teal that discusses the Macross development history of the VF-1. Line art for the GBP-1S printed in the article is captioned "Shinnakasu GBP-1S (grenade box protector)".
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I remember seeing "Grenade Box Protector" somewhere before, can't remember where though... it might've been a Palladium-ism from the 1st Ed. Robotech RPG, or maybe from Protoculture Addicts magazine. Yeah, that's the version I've seen more commonly... Ground Battle Protector. I thought it might've been one of the VF-X or VF-X2 manuals or guidebooks where I first saw that one, but I just checked and couldn't find it there. Nah, the acronym BFG (for "Big F***ing Gun") was part of the original Doom design document by id Software co-founder Tom Hall, though they used less explicit variants in the manuals for Doom II and Quake II, where it was described as "Big Freaking Gun", in the latter case with a clear (and printed) hesitation to draw a line under their word substitution. A good (and slightly more closely related) example of a backronym like that coming into common use in a fandom is the backronym for "MOBILE SUIT" in Gundam ("Mobile Space Utility Instrument-Tactical).
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Eh... mostly, they're just ignorant. Sure, there are some Robotech fans who do that sort of thing because they think it's a really witty way to troll Macross fans. The rest, well, they're either confused or they don't know any better. A big part of the problem is that, over the years, Harmony Gold has put lots of time and energy into convincing Robotech fans to ignore anything to do with Macross. They've told obvious lies about how it's just knocking off Robotech, and told the blind faithful that Macross wasn't worth looking into. The problem was compounded by the way many Robotech fans exhibit a magpie-like tendency to steal anything that isn't nailed down and on fire and add it to Robotech in the fan-fiction and fanmade RPG supplements they made in the glory days of Geocities and Angelfire, and Harmony Gold's attempts to block Macross imports.
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Uh... it may have something to do with you coming to a public forum to complain bitterly about something that most Robotech fans couldn't care less about, to an audience even less inclined to care than the average Robotech fan. To be frank, the general lack of sympathy for your "plight" shouldn't come as any surprise. Nor, for that matter, should the sentiments that you're wasting your time pursuing a fool's errand by trying to overturn one of the few sensible business decisions Harmony Gold has made in the history of their Robotech franchise. Meh... it hardly matters. The only version of the Robotech opening credits that acknowledge the real creators was the one cooked up for that 25th Anniversary party.
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As far as I know, there hasn't been a HD re-release of Macross 7. Macross 7's animation quality being what it is, I can't imagine upsampling to a HD format would've done it any favors. I know that the same fansub group who originally did Macross 7 (Central Anime) went back and redid their subtitled release of the series using the cleaner video and audio from the DVD release (instead of the old VHS transfers) and corrected scripts, so that might be something you'd want to look into.
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Or to put it another way, setting yourself up for a series of guaranteed disappointments is one way to pass the time.
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Variable Fighter Master File VF-25 Messiah
Seto Kaiba replied to Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0's topic in Movies and TV Series
's not a commercial market thing... the "VIP-caliber" and "VIP-Messiah" transport conversions are intended to ferry around the higher ranking mukkity-muks when they visit the individual theaters during a war. I can't remember which model of bomber they favored for that kind of thing, but a couple generals (as well as Winston Churchill) used converted bombers as their personal transports during World War II. (IIRC, Churchill's was a converted B-24 Liberator II) It seems unlikely, but maybe they've decided to intersperse them with other publications again... AFAIK the next book GAGraphic is working on is a similar thing for Metal Armor Dragonar. I've heard that said of the VF-27's head... but not the VF-25S's. -
Oh, I wouldn't say that I hate the Southern Cross series... it's more like I find it intensely disappointing. I'll admit, I certainly had no love for the Masters Saga when I first watched Robotech (and still don't), but I left most of my antipathy for it behind after I watched Southern Cross in its unedited form. Bereft of the annoying alterations, Southern Cross had a decent concept and passable story going for it... but the good bits are concealed behind a battlement of bad mecha design and guarded by a largely unlikeable cast. The overriding impression I got when I was digging into the few existing Southern Cross publications was that if any one factor is responsible for the show's low quality and premature demise, it would be the apathy of its creators. They don't seem to have put much thought into anything but the generalities of the series, and it shows in This is Animation: Southern Cross. Something like half of the book is filler that has nothing to do with the content of the series, and the rest is disappointingly light on actual content. The same goes for what little else was printed about the show. Incidentally, I'm well aware that Southern Cross is far from the worst series out there. Hell, I have worse sitting on the shelves with the rest of my anime collection. (Angel Links being a perfect example...)
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Speaking as someone who once put in a little (wasted) time against This is Animation: Southern Cross, I think I'd probably be more impressed by the ability to clearly recall the liner notes. As you'd expect from a Southern Cross publication, the show's TIA book can only honestly be called an egregious waste of paper and ink. Oh, I agree... it's an ailment that only seems to get worse the longer the victim remains an avid Robotech fan. Over time, they get more and more out of touch with Robotech as they form an ever-increasing number of baseless theories to spackle over the plot holes and dialogue errors in the Robotech TV series. At some ill-defined point, it reaches critical mass and they completely lose touch with the series... becoming more like fans of their own Robotech fan-fiction than the show itself.
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Nah... to be fair, he is actually pretty knowledgeable when it comes to what little official information exists for the Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross series. It's just a little hard to take him completely seriously when he point-blank refuses to accept that virtually nobody gives a damn about Southern Cross and that it was a failure in Japan and in the international market, or when the official info he presents is so thoroughly embroidered with baseless supposition and fan-fiction that it loses any value it might've had in the first place (e.g. "the Sylphid Veritech"). No, he wasn't belittling you... just your opinion.