Seto Kaiba
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I've always felt the best explanation of the Frontier movies is that, like DYRL, they're propaganda-based movies released in-universe. In the series, the Macross Frontier fleet's administration (parts of it, anyway) were complicit in or actively a part of the conspiracy to basically overthrow the New UN Gov't using the Vajra and forcibly unite humanity into the implant network Grace had created. The Macross Frontier movies shifted virtually all the blame for the conspiracy and the ensuing war with the Vajra onto Macross Galaxy's administration, taking pains to make both SMS and the New UN Spacy forces look good. They tactfully gloss over the involvement of a ranking NUNS officer and SMS's owner, and reinvent history a little so that the Frontier fleet's government and military realize something is badly wrong much earlier on and take preventative action instead of being duped almost to the bitter end and having to have rogue SMS forces pull their arses out of the fire.
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Huh? I'm sorry, I'm not entirely sure if you're saying you've never seen Macross 7 in general, or you've never seen the OVAs and aren't sure how they relate to the series. (It's probably just me being all caffeine-crash-y.) The greater Macross 7 story arc doesn't include any recap titles or compilation movies... the Macross 7 OVAs generally fit somewhere within the actual run of the series itself, like side stories or extra-long episodes. Macross 7 Encore is two sort of "spare" episodes ("On Stage" and "Which One Do You Love?") that aren't explicitly placed in the continuity, but seem to fit smoothly between episodes of the series around Ep40 or so. The unaired episode "Fleet of the Strongest Women" is basically one long deleted scene. Macross 7: the Galaxy is Calling Me! is a "movie" that functions as an overly long television episode between episodes 42 and 43. Macross Dynamite 7 is a completely separate story set the year after the conclusion of the Macross 7 main series. Pretty much the only "recap" titles we've had are DYRL, the Macross Plus movie, and the two Macross Frontier movies... and the only one that didn't completely change the story up was the Macross Plus one.
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Eh? They've only done it, what, three times in total? Macross: Do You Remember Love?, the Macross Plus "movie", and the Macross Frontier films. It's usually one and done with them, Gundam's indulged in it more, and with a lot less original material thrown in the mix. You really can't count the Macross II: the Movie thing, because that's not really a compilation movie or a re-envisioning of an existing story, it's literally just the OVA's episodes put together without the opening and closing credits. Yeah, Kawamori says that it's a Schrodinger's continuity sort of scenario, but for a long time now we've had the official line that DYRL was really just a movie within the Macross universe... and the official encyclopedia Macross Chronicle has consistently gone with the stance that the TV series version of any given Macross story with multiple versions is the "correct" one for purposes of continuity and so on. It treats the movies and so on as being an existence separate from the actual official continuity of Macross. However... that doesn't mean that everything in the movies doesn't exist. There are plenty of cases where things from the movie versions have been established to also exist in the series continuity. Like how the DYRL VF-1 was identified as being a later block upgrade of the VF-1 Valkyrie, Exsedol's DYRL appearance in Macross 7 was chalked up to him restoring himself to his original giant stature and re-modifying his body makeup because of his fear of losing his memories, and so on and so forth. Macross Frontier's "Missing Birthday" and "Fastest Delivery", for instance, showed that Zentradi were using the series and DYRL versions of some of their equipment side by side. DYRL aesthetics seem to have supplanted a lot of original series ones in places with similar excuses. The Variable Fighter Master File book for the VF-25 does something similar with the YF-29, though that book is, by its own disclaimer, not part of the official Macross setting. I think the fans just like to play with the Macross Frontier movie ending more for fan-works because it's more open-ended than the series ending.
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's kind of a thing in the industry in general... the compilation movie phenomenon has been around for ages. Macross is kind of unusual in that the do-over isn't just a retread of the story in a condensed form, but usually really mixes stuff up and approaches the story from a completely different angle than the series did. Things like the Macross Plus movie are more in line with a more traditional compilation movie like the original Gundam films and the Zeta Gundam: A New Translation stuff, where it's mostly the same footage but the order of events is mixed up a little and some new material gets added to flesh things out or emphasize different aspects of the original story. They get to put out something new, and putting a new spin (whether a minor or major one) on an existing story takes less effort than creating a completely new story from the ground up... letting them go back and correct the parts they didn't like, or approach the story and character relationships differently, and so on. If you want the most cynical answer... that'd be "because it sells".
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Eh... remember, the status of Macross: Do You Remember Love? is that of an in-universe movie. Naturally, as such, it would have taken license with the performance of the VF-1's weapons to make things more dramatic/cinematic. That's like using Top Gun as a yardstick for approximating just how effective modern fighter-carried weaponry is. However, the Macross Chronicle mechanic sheets for the VF-1 affirm that the cutaway schematic from the Gold Book IS accurate to the fighter, and the Super Dimension Fortress Macross television series is considered by same to be the "more correct" version of Space War 1... which argues strongly in favor of the show's 30 shots, 30 kills statement. You've based your theory here around the art, and only the art, in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2. The problems with this choice are threefold. First, as sketchley and I have both pointed out, Master File's contents are not part of the official Macross setting (the books say that much themselves). Second, you're mixing assumptions by basing your missile measurements on the smaller HMM-03 micro-missile, which was not in use during the events of the series... Volume 2 is for the VF-1's service history ten years after the first volume was published. As noted in Volume 1 (refer to page 049), the VF-1's of the first space war were using the older, larger HMM-01 missile and (possibly) a different model of option pack for their NP-BP-01 OMS/RCS (Vol.1 calls it HMMP-02, Vol.2 calls it HMMMP-02). If these are, in fact, the same launcher system then the increase in the capacity that Master File identifies is likely down to the smaller size of the HMM-03 used in later decades. Also, you've mistakenly assumed that the missiles in the NP-AR-01 are the same model used in the NP-BP-01's HMMP-02 launcher... Master File and the official line art indicate that the arm packs take an entirely different model of missile. Mind you, the official stats seem to indicate that there is no difference between the series and DYRL arm packs that Master File has inexplicably drawn at two different sizes... Third, your conclusion that missiles got larger and less numerous goes against the text of the (admittedly non-canon) source you're basing all your conclusions on... which asserts that the missile count went up, not down, and that smaller missiles with better warheads were a factor in that.
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I'd have to go back and go over the footage myself to be sure of your count, but the fact is that the original Macross series does contain a number of inconsistencies in its animation... most even more glaring than this potentially is. Officially, the missile count for the VF-1 Valkyrie's FAST pack sits at 30... 12 in each HMMP-02 launcher in the booster packs, and 3 in each arm. Using Master File as a yardstick will always be a dodgy idea because it carries a clear and entirely unambiguous notation stating that the contents are not part of the official Macross setting on the credits page of each of the five books printed to date. Mind you, the Master File books do assert that, by the time Do You Remember Love? was filmed in-universe, VF-1's were using a different armament arrangement in their FAST packs. The problem is that it asserts that the missile count went up, not down, thanks to changes in the packs and a new, smaller model of missile (HMM-03). Another problem with your assumptions WRT missile capacity is that these launchers are not empty space, their innards contain (per Master File and the art) other things like sensors, structural reinforcement to connect the detachable option packs to the actual booster, and so on. That all takes up space, as does the feed system and individual magazines for the launch ports in the boosters. The dialogue supports the official line art count of twelve missiles per booster, while Master File states twenty a side for the improved, post-war models, which was something that a fair number of toys also did. EDIT: The two configurations that we've seen for the internals of the HMMP-02 missile pack and/or what Master File VF-1 Vol.2 calls the HMMMP-02 (extra M? Vol.1 uses HMMP-02, as does Chronicle) are four straight missile containers holding three of the HMM-01 each, and an almost-identical configuration on toys in which there's a second row of two missiles on the top and bottom of each side, feeding into the nearest launcher port, giving a configuration (from top to bottom, one side) of 2-3-3-2. The middle of the pack seems to be filled in with hardware in both cases. Thus far, I do not believe that the revised edition of Macross Chronicle has offered commentary beyond what the original edition did on the subject... though Master File has proved surprisingly helpful, as noted above.
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's an interesting analysis, to be sure... but if Hikaru really fired that many missiles from his arm launchers, that's more than the launchers contain by a factor of two. According to the official material and cutaways, the NP-AR-01 packs only contain three missiles and the NP-BP-01's HMMP-02 launcher pack contains twelve (three per port). Master File tries to rationalize this and a few other eccentricities displayed by various toys, citing missile counts of 20 for the NP-BP-01 in later service with a newer model of missile, and presenting an alternate wing design with three pylon stations instead of two. Yeah, that was the big cutaway from the Gold Book, IIRC.
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My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I don't answer letters and you don't like my tie.
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HERESY! *BLAM!* Nah, I'm kiddin'. Anyway, were there actually new designs in Macross FB7 that merit mechanic sheets, or d'you reckon that'll be mainly character sheets like the Macross 7 movie? Once I get my ISP to behave itself, I gotta order a copy of FB7 for my collection.
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Freakin' beautiful cover... I'd buy that as a poster. 's another Macross Frontier series section for the titular ship then? I'm really curious to see what we're going to get for Macross FB7, since that's in the intro section but we haven't seen anything for it yet, and I haven't gotten a chance to see the film either.
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Yeah, it does... though it's worth remembering that (at least according to Master File) the actual engines are relatively compact and thus leave a not insignificant bit of empty space inside the legs of the larger Valkyries for things like ordinance. It'd be a tight fit, for sure, but not entirely outside the realm of possibility. That's what the bulge on the side of the leg is for, after all.
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1. Ordinarily I wouldn't care, but as this in particular is one of the more obnoxious recurring bits of misinformation on Macross II... thanks a bunch to US Renditions for that one. 2. The most correct/accurate spelling of the Babylonian god's name is マルドゥク, as indicated by the Wiki page there. Ken'ichi Yatagai (Macross II's director) was very precise in stating that, while an element of homage is involved, the alien race does not share a name with the Babylonian god... so romanizing it to "Marduk" instead of the correct "Mardook" is rather inconsistent with the actual material.
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Very interesting, thanks for posting that. I was trying to sort out some rules for the Jamming Sound system for the Macross MUSH I help out at, and this helps IMMENSELY. EDIT: WRT your translation of Glossary Sheet 02(A) "Boat/Ship of the Alus" entry, the correct/official romanization of マルドゥーク is "Mardook", as seen in This is Animation Special 5: Macross II: Lovers Again, title cards, and so on.
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Er... how? The Supervision Army doesn't exist in the parallel world continuity that Macross II: Lovers Again belongs to. Macross: Do You Remember Love? is treated as the more accurate of the two depictions of the first space war in that continuity, and the various bridging titles (the Macross 2036 and Macross: Eternal Love Song canon video games) repeatedly affirm DYRL's account of the Protoculture's schism war. The Zentradi's rival power for their 500,000 years (and counting!) of war was the Meltrandi Army. From the hints Ken'ichi Yatagai dropped around the time the OVA was being released, the Mardook are another group of male and female Protoculture who, like the ones the ancient computer describes in DYRL, escaped the collapse of their civilization and tried to start over.
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Huh... that's actually a really nice one. Probably the first time I've looked at the VF-17T Custom and said "Hey, that's actually not a bad-looking plane".
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Eh... not exactly an original idea even in real-world implementations. The South Koreans have been doing something similar since at least the early 2000s, blasting kpop across the DMZ using a number of large speaker systems. IIRC, the last time that made the news was back in 2010.
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's probably because, despite all the silliness, Macross 7 is part of the main Macross continuity and Macross II is (retroactively) an alterniverse. The Protodeviln get an automatic leg-up by being relevant to the ongoing story. Mind you, going from the various tidbits about the nature of the Mardook and their technology spread around by Macross II's creative staff, the most likely explanation for the Mardook is that they're another group of Protoculture who fled the collapse of their civilization (in much the same way as the ones who briefly colonized Earth in the DYRLverse) and decided to preserve their culture and civilization by any means necessary. Yes, "Mardook" is actually the correct spelling according to the few official Macross II art books, incl. This is Animation Special #5: Macross II.
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Just throwin' out a theory here... but it could be because the Zola Patrol ship was designed and built by the Zolans, while the VF-5000s the patrol uses were purchased from the UN.
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I believe HLJ still has it.
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No worries, that's what the thread's for. (As far as the rudeness thing, my kind of dry manner tends to get interpreted as snide a lot... so I wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't trying to be.) Personally, I'd never really given that much thought to the how of Kakizaki's death... I'd always focused more on the suddenness of it. I had always assumed it was a missile, since there wasn't the characteristic streak of light sketchley mentioned, and every energy weapon in DYRL was "color coded for your convenience". It never occurred to me for an instant that you might question the validity of Chronicle, so no worries there. There's often not much coverage for the fiddly little details, so having ANY source that gives them is kind of nice on its own. I suppose I have sketchley to blame for me finally caving and buying the revised edition of Chronicle too... the nifty tidbits here and there that he turns up got me wondering what tidbits were being missed out in the sheets he wasn't translating. My friends are only too happy he motivated me into getting the new version, but my wallet's a little unhappy about it... ($119.19 for shipping? Bloody hell...) 's far as tracking missiles on the radar, I'd take that first scene with a heaping mountain of salt... they were shooting at targets that were a good ways off, so the missiles naturally tracked more slowly across the screen. The engagement with Milia was at really short range... close enough that for the bulk of it, the two pilots could easily have exchanged rude hand gestures if they'd been so inclined, and much closer than any dogfight would happen at in the modern world. It's been used for a cover piece in Macross Chronicle twice, I think...
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Er... not wishing to be rude or unnecessarily blunt, the Macross Chronicle coverage is pretty much the only official line on such a minor detail. You're not likely to find an official source that says something else. Just going on the sound effects being used, I believe it probably was a missile that killed Kakizaki. The sound effect is exactly the same one used mere seconds later for Milia launching more missiles... and it's worth noting the missile trails are the exact same color (according to Photoshop, anyway) as the streak we see across Kakizaki's comm display when he dies. If it'd been a shot from the Queadluun-Rau's rotary lasers, we might have expected to see one or both arms pointed as if to fire... but they're just held down at the suit's sides when we see her.
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Finally got caught up on this stuff myself... ended up having to order about twenty issues and six binders en masse. I'd always figured that was the case, that the AIF-9V was just using a cut-down BGP-01 as its main gun. I'd guess it doesn't have the beam grenade mode though, since it looks like the actual back of the gun is embedded deep inside the AIF-9V's body.
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Er... Hikaru's VF-1J is deployed with the Armored Pack in Episode 9, but the first appearance of the Super Pack isn't until Episode 24, long after he had "inherited" Roy's VF-1S.
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As VF-15 Banshee said, it's never really elaborated on in the Macross Frontier television series. Grace's superiors (or co-conspirators) were never explored in any depth, though she seemed to be largely running the proverbial show since it was she who developed the implant network theories on which her plan hinges. The alternate version of events in the Macross Frontier: Itsuwari no Utahime and Sayonara no Tsubasa movies identifies the chief string-pullers in the conspiracy as the Macross Galaxy fleet's executive staff.* * Macross Galaxy is described as being administrated like a corporation, rather than a government.
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From what Macross Chronicle's old edition had to say, a Zentradi "cycle" was pretty close to an Earth year... so the ages in the series version of stuff is probably close to Earth years too. I believe the official spelling of his surname is Birla or something to that effect... but he's the owner/founder of S.M.S. and its parent company, Birla Transport Co., an interstellar shipping company. He's one of the sponsors of the Macross Frontier fleet and a supporter of President Glass.
