Seto Kaiba

Yeah, it's that way in the Macross II universe as well... the Super Pack and Armored Pack were already proceeding into operational testing at the time Space War 1 broke out.

Well, the Macross Chronicle mechanic sheet may use "defeated" instead of "destroyed", but the force dispositions given for the UN Spacy in February 2010 indicate only six ARMDs were in service at the time (ARMDs 3-, and it would appear that none of them survived. That was, I would assume, the intent... the Macross wasn't being launched to go fight a war right away, it wasn't like they knew they the ship would end up in the center of a massive space war. The Macross II universe has a different timeline, and one of the things that's somewhat different is the development history of the VF-1 Valkyrie. Some variants, such as the VT-1 and VE-1, have radically different backstories for Macross II's universe compared to what they have in the main Macross timeline.

Ah, ok... that's one of the very first stages of the game. I dunno, I got a couple friends who really like the Metal Siren... but it doesn't really do much for me. Beautifully done kit tho.

's been a while since I last played the Macross 2036 game, but IIRC that's the surface of the moon. They don't leave the Sol system in Macross 2036, since Quamzin led a Zentradi fleet there to deliver a curbstomping to the UN Spacy (which backfired). Pretty sure it's that old cliche.

Eh? You sure you're not thinking of her younger sister Emilia from the main Macross universe there?

Like sketchley said, the Macross's original mission was to be the flagship and first battleship of the UN Spacy's fleet protecting Earth... tho in Macross II's timeline, the specific mission the Macross was being prepped for when all hell broke loose was to conduct space operations testing on the VF-1 with the Super/Strike/Armored packs during its shakedown cruise.

Where does it say that they did? (Really, if the Anti-UN had ships of their own, why'd they need to hijack an Oberth-class destroyer? They already had reaction weaponry, and weren't at all shy about using it, so they didn't need it for the ordinance.)

Yep. I wasn't kidding when I said the Macross II universe borrows a fair bit from the original Macross series. Not just story aspects like the issues with Zentradi revolts, they also drew on design aspects in a few places. The bridge of Britai's ship, after its refit, looks rather a lot like it did in after the UN Spacy took it over in the TV series. 's not the only time a series-design version of the Macross shows up in Macross II material either. There's a rather well-done full-page piece of art in, IIRC, Animage magazine's pre-release coverage of Macross II: Lovers Again that shows the Macross w/ Daedalus and Prometheus standing up in the big pit/scaffolding thing the Macross is kept in in the OVA. I'll see about posting a scan later, after I finish this stuff up for Mr March. It's a little odd, yes... that variant is the VF-1JR Valkyrie Kai ("Refined Valkyrie") with Super Pack II equipped. The pilot's name is Lott Sheen. I'll take her over Mylene any day of the week. Mikimoto did a great job on her, IMO. lol Engrish... it happens. Hell, there's still confusion over how to spell Regult in some circles.

Hm... neither have I, but I've always assumed that the Mars return fleet was either unarmed or only lightly armed, since the whole fleet was wiped out by a single hijacked UN Forces missile destroyer. 's kind of an apples and oranges thing going on there, actually. The 2006 date given for the Octos is the rollout of the very first completed Octus unit, whereas the 2008 date given for the Mk.III Cheyenne platform was for the operational deployment of mass produced Cheyenne destroids. I'll have to have a look at Chroncle later (or maybe sketchley will field this one before I get to it), but I don't believe we have a date for the start of production or first test unit rollout for both units, so we can't really say which one came first. Also remember, the UN completed their first working variable fighter in 2004, two years before the rollout of the first transforming Octos destroid. Did the Anti-UN even have a space fleet of their own? The latter seems more likely, but all things considered I'd guess that the cost of buildings those massive weapons (and the toll it was doubtless taking on the world economy) was probably reason enough for them to take a whack at blowing one up. Well, D.D. Ivanov was... but IIRC Nora was his protege from after his defection (in which he took the VF-0's development data to the Anti-UN) just like Roy was his protege during his time as the VF-0's principal test pilot.

IIRC, isn't Nora's word all we have to go on as far as who invented the variable system? The Anti-UN definitely had the first combat-ready VF out there, and the SV-51's development was supposedly a year or two ahead of where the VF-0 was, but was variable fighter technology developed independently or was it something both sides got from OTEC? (sketchley, any thoughts or nuggets of fact on this?) Chronicle's Timeline Sheets 1 and 2 don't shed much light on which side had VFs first, saying only that both sides started developing OTM-based weapons in parallel with the restoration work on the Macross.

ANSWER GET! Yes, the engine room of the Venator-class Star Destroyer is modeled on the Gravity Control room aboard the SDF-1 Macross. This bit of trivia was, in fact, announced in the trivia section of StarWars.com's page for the ninth episode of the Star Wars: the Clone Wars animated series. Quote from the website is as follows, and the page can be accessed directly here. (Thanks to jaymz from the Palladium Books forums for his help with this one!)

S'long as it's a food thread, can I ask a question? Can anyone out there recommend a good cookbook for blokes like me who aren't handy in the kitchen?

I've seen something to that effect on the Star Wars wiki, but IIRC they didn't source the statement. I'll consult a SW-savvy friend of mine from another board and see if he knows.

*shrug* 's your own call there, but the official Macross II publications do include the material from the prequel games and the timeline treats 'em as a part of the universe. The main Macross universe takes far more dramatic liberties with DYRL.

To be fair, I was quite happy taking it at face value until you lot made it an issue. Granted, space is vast and three-dimensional... but when the chips are down, people tend to think two-dimensionally* and depicting it that way makes the whole engagement easier for the audience to process. * Lampshaded in Star Trek II?

Possible, which is why I asked Gubaba for confirmation as to whether the Quamzin 03350 from Macross: Do You Remember Love? was supposed to be the same person as the famous Quamzin the Ally-Killer. It would tidy up a neat little loose end for me if they were two different people.

Yeah, they're clones... but I don't think every Quamzin is the Ally-Killer. The one who shows up in Macross: Do You Remember Love? isn't around long enough to establish if he's the famous one or not, but the one who shows up in Macross 2036 is supposed to be the notorious one whose forces served with the Britai branch fleet during the war and who lived on Earth briefly before legging it back into space for reinforcements to finish what he started. EDIT: Clarity.

Now, I know I've answered this question for you before, so I feel compelled to ask... are you seriously asking? Unless the Quamzin who "dies" fighting Roy in DYRL? isn't the famous(ly crazy) one, and there's another completely unmentioned Quamzin out running around and getting into all kinds of ally-killing hijinks under Britai's supervision during the war, then yes... that caption in the Gold Book would be wrong within the context of the Macross II alternate universe timeline. The implication in the Macross 2036 story is that the Quamzin returning to wreak havoc with the Zentradi Neld main fleet is the Quamzin, the notorious one who led the Zentradi uprising on Earth after the war ended. I suppose it's not really beyond the realm of possibility that there was more than one Quamzin serving under Britai (esp. after Macross Frontier and Temjin), though wasn't the Quamzin who dies fighting Roy supposed to also be the Quamzin?

Hmm... maybe that explains why I've never had any use for the VF-11 and VF-19F/S, which were also fairly arbitrary inclusions. Still, I agree with you to a certain extent. The Valkyrie II's presence is justifiable enough, and though it's ugly as sin the Metal Siren at least is justifiable and its presence is explained before it's seen in combat. The only designs from Macross II that I'd really apply your remarks to would be the Zentradi Valkyrie, which was only really present for one very brief scene and as a throwaway design at that, and the Icarus, which was interesting but was essentially almost totally redundant even in its technical material. Okay, message received... you have an unstinting hate-on for Macross II. You can stop banging on about it now. Well, all I can really tell you there is that he's very much not dead (but contains significantly more metal by volume) when he makes a reappearance at the head of a second Zentradi main fleet in 2036. They really don't leave any room for doubt as to his identity, since he calls Britai up to taunt him on one of those viewscreens and has specific knowledge of Earth's military arrangements. As far as the booby trap is concerned, all I can tell you is that Ken'ichi Yatagai does explicitly finger the Macross's early warning systems as the culprit behind the energy discharges. I don't make the news, I just report it.

Ah... lol, guess my edit didn't come fast enough. My guess, and this is only a guess, was that the VF-19A (initial mass production type) was in most respects identical to the YF-19 prototype, while they made some fairly significant changes to the YF-21 (it basically absorbed the super packs it had in the OVA) before it became the production-approved VF-22. The changes in the VF-19's aerodynamic profile in the later mass production types (F/S, etc.) didn't change the transformation or the airframe itself in any significant way, it just optimized an existing airframe for space operations and addressed some control issues, so it didn't really merit a new number.

Brace for merge into the Newbie Thread... Anyway, in Macross as in the real world, the numbering system isn't always perfectly sequential. Some numbers get skipped because they were issued to prototypes that didn't pan out, or out-of-sequence designations were issued under various circumstances like planes being transferred from one series to another, or simply assigned the manufacturer's model number. The VF-20 number may have been taken by an unsuccessful predecessor to the YF-21, intentionally left blank in the event further development from the YF-19 designated assigning a fresh number, etc. I'm certain Talos will show up to chime in on the real-world tri-service designation system, but I'd assume that the reason the YF-21 ended up as VF-22 was because the major design changes occurred BEFORE mass-production, whereas the VF-19A was, in most respects, a mass-produced YF-19, and the aerodynamically different E/F/P/S types came along later and didn't change the basic airframe articulation or anything like that.

Well, not having the kind of cavalier attitude towards losses due to friendly fire that the Zentradi Army apparently has, the UN Spacy wasn't left with a whole hell of a lot of options about where to place their heavy gun destroyers. Boddole Zer demonstrated that going through thousands of your own ships is effective enough if you want to catch the enemy off-guard, but it's only really sustainable in the long term if you have an unlimited number of replacements to draw on. Remember, please, that what our boy Shoji set down after the fact for the events leading up to Do You Remember Love? doesn't necessarily hold true in Macross II's alternate universe continuity. The explanation of Macross II's continuity given by Ken'ichi Yatagai et. al. in B-Club 79 does indicate that a large number of events that were only depicted in the TV series still did happen in the DYRLverse. Some of them differed in the details, like the whole Zentradi uprising thing ending with Quamzin and company legging it for space as soon as they got their hands on a working ship rather than going on the suicide run they did in the series, but many still did happen. Yes and no. Several of the old PC Engine games from the 90's did depict or mention various colony scenarios, but two of them are actually canon prequels to the Macross II: Lovers Again OVA. The creators of the Macross II: Lovers Again series collaborated on the production of a pair of PC Engine games for the purpose of filling in a little bit of the gap between Macross: Flashback 2012 and the new OVA. They made an R-type-style side-scrolling shooter, Macross 2036, and followed it up with a turn-based strategy game as a direct sequel, called Macross: Eternal Love Song. Their canonicity is clearly and expressly established via their inclusion in official coverage of the Macross II OVA, incl. the official Macross II timeline in B-Club 79, which offers information about their development and includes game-specific designs like the Refined Valkyrie in the official "VF History", and Entertainment Bible 51, which includes the events of those two games in their backstory synopsis. Generally assumed by who & where? Sounds fanfic-ish to me. Alexander Del Sua's on the level here, Keith... the official spec for the original Macross-class and the New Macross-class mention both pin-point and omnidirectional/total barrier systems. Bizarrely, the official spec for the Battle Frontier lists only a pin-point barrier, while the Varauta ships have both pin-point and total barrier systems listed for all classes except the Vanguard Frigate, which has only a pin-point barrier. Since Battle Frontier's commander did raise some kind of barrier covering the entire ship at one point, it seems safe to assume that the "Repulsion Field" (IINM) is either a new name for same or a cousin of the total barrier. The Macross Quarter also displays something that looks like a full-body shield shortly after that initial transformation in the Macross Frontier series, though its official spec also lists only a pin-point barrier. On balance, it does seem that it's a safe assumption that a Macross-type ship has a total barrier. This seems to be a subjective issue... the people who like the designs don't seem to have issues with it. You've made no secret of the fact that you REALLY don't like the designs of the series, so of course you have issues with their presentation. Hehe... maybe that's how Hibiki was able to find her so fast. All he would've had to do was follow the drool from passers-by.

Trying to break this up as a separate post so the quote tag limit won't freak out... The Metal Siren is the newest variable fighter in the UN Spacy's arsenal in Macross II... brand new, in fact. The official designation given to it around 2002-2003 on the official Macross website makes it a variable attack plane tho (VA-1SS). The name is, supposedly, a reference/homage to the VF-4 and its original name of "Siren", which had its first (and thus far, only) starring role in one of Macross II's two prequels: Macross: Eternal Love Song. The Metal Siren's what you get when you let Gundam and specifically Hathaway's Flash design aesthetics loose in a Macross setting, tho some of it was inspired by Kawamori's early design work on the VF-1J Valkyrie. Not terribly unbelievable, considering how destructive Kamikaze attacks were when it was just aluminum planes ramming into steel aircraft carriers WITHOUT carrying several tons of explosive and an active fusion reactor. I imagine those probably make the "boom" when it crashes rather bigger. So, the four kilometer long fleet command battleship he blows up doesn't count then? The thing he uses to destroy that ship is never explained, so I can't say how often it can or can't be used. It may be that he only had enough juice to use it once, and it needs to recharge? Based on some of your earlier questions, if you'd actually watched the OVA I'd be willing to bet that you'd have been able to put two and two together too. If you're not going to pay attention, then you're going to miss things, and I won't have any sympathy for you when you complain about it later. Budget issues... yes, the drop in animation quality is painful. 's part of a planned retrofit that was carried out with the intention of returning the Macross to active fleet service, but wasn't completed after another major war with the Zentradi (almost certainly the 2054 one) dropped another factory satellite in the UN Spacy's lap, bringing about a jump in human understanding of overtechnology that culminated in an entire new generation of UN Spacy warships. Meaningless? Did you, perchance, miss the moral that the important thing isn't the ship, it's the message of peace? Anyway, the bridge clearly had power, as it stayed aloft for a fair amount of time. (It's been implied in a few places that this bridge lifeboat mechanism wasn't new, and was a part of the concept material thought up for earlier projects. It may explain how the bridge crew survived essentially unharmed during Quamzin's final attack back in the original series.) So... you don't pick up on subtle things, and you don't pick up on obvious things that are said out loud by the main cast? Sylvie and Nexx have a conversation about exactly this in the first bloody episode. They did, yes, go to a hotel specifically to discuss military strategy and nothing else, the point being to avoid talking about how the military has become complacent and overconfident within earshot of the other top brass who are likely to interpret it as insubordination. No... Exegran wasn't involved like that. It's a double or triple triangle... Ishtar x Hibiki x Sylvie Hibiki x Ishtar x Feff Hibiki x Sylvie x Nexx Belligerent sexual tension.

... and here we go: EDIT: Gonna have to put 11-21 into a separate post after a little while, the forum keeps trying to merge my posts and it puts it over the limit of allowed quote tags. Just because the story of the Macross II OVA is set on Earth doesn't mean there's no colonization program... for a little over 50 of those 80 years, the Macross II alternate universe's UN Spacy was launching colony fleets on a regular basis using Macross and Megaroad-class ships. The colony fleets never got as big as the ones in the main Macross universe, but they did launch a lot of them. As I mentioned earlier, they only stopped after a colony fleet that'd just been launched in 2054 blundered into a massive Zentradi armada shortly after leaving the Sol system, and the Zentradi traced its fold jump back to Earth and attacked... leading to a second, massively destructive space war that decimated the UN Spacy's fleets. Now, as far as continuing to rely on the Minmay Attack goes... isn't that rather a case of the pot calling the kettle black? The UN Spacy and New UN Spacy of the main Macross timeline do it too. Macross 7's Sound Force had, as its origins, an attempt to improve the Minmay Attack's effectiveness (as a weapon), and spent the entire time trying to beat giant space monsters by rocking out in their general direction and, later, zapping them with a beam made out of songs. In Macross Frontier, the Minmay Attack was the first thing that Leon leaped to suggest when the Vajra attacked, and then eventually turned out to be what turned the Vajra against Grace in the end. Hell, Frontier even did the giant space hologram girl thing. This is laid out pretty bluntly in the OVA itself, but the answer is "Because the UN Spacy thought they were up against the Zentradi, and had therefore planned for the fight to be a pushover like their previous encounters had been." It was, as Hibiki and Dennis point out, mostly about the spectacle for propaganda purposes. Considering the ship had already been hit hard enough to have several massive, gaping holes large enough to comfortably fly a fighter into, I'd guess either an ammo storage area or power system blowing up... or perhaps the ship suffered another big hit. When did Hibiki drug her? He gave her a glass of water... it even helpfully says "WATER" on the bottle in English. (Oh, and the modern news media has never done ANYTHING creepy... no sir. They'd never hack the phone of a dead person and disrupt a police investigation into a murder, or, say, hound a famous person until they get into a car crash and die...) You're assuming she didn't go out the door... they don't, in fact, show how she got out, but Hibiki was plenty distracted tearing into Matsui, so there's plenty of opportunity for her to exit stage left by any number of means. Eh... there are a couple symphonies that I consider to be torture too, but that's beside the point. The music that sets her off like that isn't orchestral, it's initially and principally that idiot with the goofy hair's metal, mixed with other stuff from the televisions behind her. I don't see how you could even confuse the two genres of music. There's not a lot of middle ground between classical and metal. Exactly what it says on the tin? Seriously, the Macross may have been retired from active duty decades before, but it's still operational and its early warning systems are still active to some extent. The energy surges from the main gun occur when the ship's dormant early warning systems (still suffering from a little bit of the "booby trap") detect hostiles. Did you, perchance, miss the part where they say out loud that those monuments (or recreations thereof) are all in the same place? Culture Park is basically a monument to the history and culture Earth lost when the Zentradi flattened everything from orbit in 2010. They're within walking distance because they're all located in the same parkland area. This is not a new or revolutionary idea either, there's a place maybe twenty minutes from my house where it's perfectly possible to walk from Henry Ford's birthplace to Edison's Menlo Park (New Jersey) lab to the Logan county (Illinois) court where Abraham Lincoln used to work as a lawyer without breaking a sweat. At this point, it's looking like your grievances stem more from not actually watching it rather than legitimate problems with it. Oh yes, because the UN Spacy has never thrown any kind of public event to distract people from how the war's going (*coughMISSMACROSScough*) or concealed from the public that things aren't going great. Did you also take exception to it when they threw a big damn show during wartime in the Macross 7 and Macross Frontier series? Also, the Moon Festival is an annual event, not something the UN Spacy scheduled on the spur of the moment. Canceling it would've probably done quite a bit to damage the military's propaganda that everything is fine and the war is going smoothly. Also, who said the Gloria was new? It's not the flagship of their entire fleet either, just the 12th. The Metal Siren they showed at the festival isn't real either... it's a mockup. (Official materials state that it's a replica, literally naming it only as "METAL SIREN REPLICA".)

kk, I'll furnish you with the answers when I get back from dinner. Um... the UN Spacy in Macross II's alternate universe DID follow Global's orders to seek out and colonize other worlds... they never launched ships as colossal as those of the main universe, but they were launching colony fleets on a regular basis using both Macross and Megaroad-class colony ships for fifty years. They only stopped after the Zentradi caught one of their fleets shortly after it left the Sol system, and tracked it back to where it'd come from, leading to a second major Space War almost as destructive as the first one. Very likely, yes... had the Mardook not resorted to kamikaze attacks, the UN Spacy would probably have been able to use the massive firepower of their Macross Cannons to level the field considerably.