Seto Kaiba
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Be careful what you wish for...
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Wait... did veef just come to the defense of Macross II? Now I've seen everything. You'll probably have a better time with Macross II: Lovers Again if you watch it with subtitles... the English dub was pretty terrible, due in large measure to it being a simultaneous America-Japan release from the early days of (mostly) faithful dubbing.
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Well, there's probably a good reason for that... IIRC, Macross Plus was developed as a stand-alone title rather than a Macross OVA, and it was "adopted" into the Macross universe to get the funding to fully realize Kawamori's plans for it. Macross 7 and the titles that followed all really try to mix things up and go in different directions... sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not so good. Macross II: Lovers Again was, I guess, the last traditional Macross show before the universe started to really branch out. I used to hate Macross 7 with a passion, to the point where it took the epicness that was Macross Frontier to convince me that Macross was still a viable property. Once my grasp of Japanese improved to the point where I could watch it without needing subtitles, it got better. What really causes problems for a lot of people watching Macross 7 after seeing the stuff that came before is that the more serious tone we got in Macross II and Macross Plus puts you in completely the wrong mindset to enjoy Macross 7. Macross 7 is a lot like its contemporary cousin Mobile Fighter G Gundam... if you go into it all "Serious Business", then you're doing it wrong and you're only going to hate it. You have to suspend the expectation of a serious story and just enjoy the spectacle of the show going over the top and breaking all the rules. Macross II: Lovers Again gets a lot of flak from Macross 7 crowd for the opposite reason... where Macross 7 was taking big risks and pushing envelopes with almost unnatural vigour, Macross II was very much playing it safe and taking no chances. Possible, IMO, but unlikely... early production art from the OVA (printed in Animage and other magazines) suggests that the thing uppermost in his mind when they were conceiving Macross II was probably his own novelization of DYRL. There's some beautiful art of a DYRL Macross with the Daedalus and Prometheus still attached in the same issue where they showcased Kazumi Fujita's early version of the Valkyrie II.
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Well, there is kind of a connection there... but only really in that they both use brainwashed troops. The Supervision Army supposedly uses (used?) a mixture of brainwashed Protoculture and Zentradi, where the Mardook use only brainwashed and cybernetically modified Zentradi soldiers.
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's all right, I figured it was pretty unlikely that you'd said that. That's why my statement started with "if". You wouldn't be so incautious as to leave me an opening to jump out and go "AHA!". Yeah, in a way, Macross II is kind of like Macross comfort food... it's the last one to follow on the tone and "feel" of the original, before things pulled a 180 and went into exploratory mode starting with Macross Plus. I'm sure a lot of folks would say that's not really in keeping with that time-honored Macross tradition of radically reinventing things with every major new title, but to some of us (myself included) think having the familiar tone is a point in its favor.
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Uh... if the podcast said that, they really missed the mark. Macross II: Lovers Again had Sukehiro Tomita in charge of the writing, and he was most assuredly NOT new to the Macross universe at the time. Nah, they're not nearly weird enough. Well... that's complicated. The "Booby Trap" situation is said to have occurred, but the early cut scenes in the DYRL? video game came way after Macross II came out, so it's doubtful that version of events could be considered canon to the Macross II alternate universe. The SDF-1 Macross was, in Macross: Do You Remember Love? and its nominal sequel Macross II: Lovers Again, originally a Meltrandi gun destroyer.
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No, the Supervision Army doesn't exist in the Macross II: Lovers Again timeline... which takes its origins from the version of Space War 1 that was shown in Macross: Do You Remember Love?. Instead of the Supervision Army, the Zentradi were fighting against the Meltrandi after the gender-related schism that split the Protoculture in two. The Mardook are strongly implied to be the descendants of one of the groups of the Protoculture who fled the collapse of their civilization, like the ones that settled on Earth before the war found them. The creative staff which worked on Macross II never comes right out and identify the origins of the Mardook, but the interviews they gave in various magazines paint them as an advanced interstellar civilization that reveres its own culture as sacred and possesses technology superior to the Zentradi. That rather narrows the field...
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Yeah, it's that way in the Macross II universe as well... the Super Pack and Armored Pack were already proceeding into operational testing at the time Space War 1 broke out.
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Well, the Macross Chronicle mechanic sheet may use "defeated" instead of "destroyed", but the force dispositions given for the UN Spacy in February 2010 indicate only six ARMDs were in service at the time (ARMDs 3-, and it would appear that none of them survived. That was, I would assume, the intent... the Macross wasn't being launched to go fight a war right away, it wasn't like they knew they the ship would end up in the center of a massive space war. The Macross II universe has a different timeline, and one of the things that's somewhat different is the development history of the VF-1 Valkyrie. Some variants, such as the VT-1 and VE-1, have radically different backstories for Macross II's universe compared to what they have in the main Macross timeline.
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Ah, ok... that's one of the very first stages of the game. I dunno, I got a couple friends who really like the Metal Siren... but it doesn't really do much for me. Beautifully done kit tho.
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's been a while since I last played the Macross 2036 game, but IIRC that's the surface of the moon. They don't leave the Sol system in Macross 2036, since Quamzin led a Zentradi fleet there to deliver a curbstomping to the UN Spacy (which backfired). Pretty sure it's that old cliche.
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Eh? You sure you're not thinking of her younger sister Emilia from the main Macross universe there?
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Like sketchley said, the Macross's original mission was to be the flagship and first battleship of the UN Spacy's fleet protecting Earth... tho in Macross II's timeline, the specific mission the Macross was being prepped for when all hell broke loose was to conduct space operations testing on the VF-1 with the Super/Strike/Armored packs during its shakedown cruise.
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Where does it say that they did? (Really, if the Anti-UN had ships of their own, why'd they need to hijack an Oberth-class destroyer? They already had reaction weaponry, and weren't at all shy about using it, so they didn't need it for the ordinance.)
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Yep. I wasn't kidding when I said the Macross II universe borrows a fair bit from the original Macross series. Not just story aspects like the issues with Zentradi revolts, they also drew on design aspects in a few places. The bridge of Britai's ship, after its refit, looks rather a lot like it did in after the UN Spacy took it over in the TV series. 's not the only time a series-design version of the Macross shows up in Macross II material either. There's a rather well-done full-page piece of art in, IIRC, Animage magazine's pre-release coverage of Macross II: Lovers Again that shows the Macross w/ Daedalus and Prometheus standing up in the big pit/scaffolding thing the Macross is kept in in the OVA. I'll see about posting a scan later, after I finish this stuff up for Mr March. It's a little odd, yes... that variant is the VF-1JR Valkyrie Kai ("Refined Valkyrie") with Super Pack II equipped. The pilot's name is Lott Sheen. I'll take her over Mylene any day of the week. Mikimoto did a great job on her, IMO. lol Engrish... it happens. Hell, there's still confusion over how to spell Regult in some circles.
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Hm... neither have I, but I've always assumed that the Mars return fleet was either unarmed or only lightly armed, since the whole fleet was wiped out by a single hijacked UN Forces missile destroyer. 's kind of an apples and oranges thing going on there, actually. The 2006 date given for the Octos is the rollout of the very first completed Octus unit, whereas the 2008 date given for the Mk.III Cheyenne platform was for the operational deployment of mass produced Cheyenne destroids. I'll have to have a look at Chroncle later (or maybe sketchley will field this one before I get to it), but I don't believe we have a date for the start of production or first test unit rollout for both units, so we can't really say which one came first. Also remember, the UN completed their first working variable fighter in 2004, two years before the rollout of the first transforming Octos destroid. Did the Anti-UN even have a space fleet of their own? The latter seems more likely, but all things considered I'd guess that the cost of buildings those massive weapons (and the toll it was doubtless taking on the world economy) was probably reason enough for them to take a whack at blowing one up. Well, D.D. Ivanov was... but IIRC Nora was his protege from after his defection (in which he took the VF-0's development data to the Anti-UN) just like Roy was his protege during his time as the VF-0's principal test pilot.
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IIRC, isn't Nora's word all we have to go on as far as who invented the variable system? The Anti-UN definitely had the first combat-ready VF out there, and the SV-51's development was supposedly a year or two ahead of where the VF-0 was, but was variable fighter technology developed independently or was it something both sides got from OTEC? (sketchley, any thoughts or nuggets of fact on this?) Chronicle's Timeline Sheets 1 and 2 don't shed much light on which side had VFs first, saying only that both sides started developing OTM-based weapons in parallel with the restoration work on the Macross.
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ANSWER GET! Yes, the engine room of the Venator-class Star Destroyer is modeled on the Gravity Control room aboard the SDF-1 Macross. This bit of trivia was, in fact, announced in the trivia section of StarWars.com's page for the ninth episode of the Star Wars: the Clone Wars animated series. Quote from the website is as follows, and the page can be accessed directly here. (Thanks to jaymz from the Palladium Books forums for his help with this one!)
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S'long as it's a food thread, can I ask a question? Can anyone out there recommend a good cookbook for blokes like me who aren't handy in the kitchen?
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I've seen something to that effect on the Star Wars wiki, but IIRC they didn't source the statement. I'll consult a SW-savvy friend of mine from another board and see if he knows.
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*shrug* 's your own call there, but the official Macross II publications do include the material from the prequel games and the timeline treats 'em as a part of the universe. The main Macross universe takes far more dramatic liberties with DYRL.
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To be fair, I was quite happy taking it at face value until you lot made it an issue. Granted, space is vast and three-dimensional... but when the chips are down, people tend to think two-dimensionally* and depicting it that way makes the whole engagement easier for the audience to process. * Lampshaded in Star Trek II?
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Possible, which is why I asked Gubaba for confirmation as to whether the Quamzin 03350 from Macross: Do You Remember Love? was supposed to be the same person as the famous Quamzin the Ally-Killer. It would tidy up a neat little loose end for me if they were two different people.
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Yeah, they're clones... but I don't think every Quamzin is the Ally-Killer. The one who shows up in Macross: Do You Remember Love? isn't around long enough to establish if he's the famous one or not, but the one who shows up in Macross 2036 is supposed to be the notorious one whose forces served with the Britai branch fleet during the war and who lived on Earth briefly before legging it back into space for reinforcements to finish what he started. EDIT: Clarity.
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Now, I know I've answered this question for you before, so I feel compelled to ask... are you seriously asking? Unless the Quamzin who "dies" fighting Roy in DYRL? isn't the famous(ly crazy) one, and there's another completely unmentioned Quamzin out running around and getting into all kinds of ally-killing hijinks under Britai's supervision during the war, then yes... that caption in the Gold Book would be wrong within the context of the Macross II alternate universe timeline. The implication in the Macross 2036 story is that the Quamzin returning to wreak havoc with the Zentradi Neld main fleet is the Quamzin, the notorious one who led the Zentradi uprising on Earth after the war ended. I suppose it's not really beyond the realm of possibility that there was more than one Quamzin serving under Britai (esp. after Macross Frontier and Temjin), though wasn't the Quamzin who dies fighting Roy supposed to also be the Quamzin?
