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Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!
Seto Kaiba replied to Valkyrie Driver's topic in Movies and TV Series
It likely helps that the simulators we've seen in Macross Plus and Macross Frontier seem to be a bit more... extreme... than anything we currently have today. The one in Macross Plus is particularly terrifying, given that it seems to not only be on a fairly extreme armature but appears to be straight-up rocket propelled. All told, that level of obscene luxury seems to be fairly rare in Macross as well. There are very few dedicated training variants of VFs out there. Most VFs follow suit with that real world practice of having a variant with a tandem cockpit on an airframe otherwise identical to the single-seat main version. The VF-1 had dedicated model conversion training variants - the improvised VF-1D and production VT-1 - but that was justified in that the two of 'em were being used to train pilots on VF operation in general not just on a specific model of aircraft. From then on, you see mostly fully operational tandem variants like the VF-4B, VF-11D, VF-17T, VF-19B/D, etc. until optional second seats became a standard feature on the 5th Gen main VFs. Depends on the locale... I think a lot of the reason we DON'T see dedicated training variants for most models of VF is that it's only really Earth that has the benefit of massively over-the-top manufacturing capability thanks to its nearly two dozen factory satellites. Most emigrant fleets have to make do with more restraint via onboard factories or factory ships in similar lines to the Macross 7 fleet's Three Star. -
Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!
Seto Kaiba replied to Valkyrie Driver's topic in Movies and TV Series
Guld Goa Bowman was a General Galaxy employee and one of the designers collaborating on the development of the YF-21 in addition to being its lead test pilot. -
Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!
Seto Kaiba replied to Valkyrie Driver's topic in Movies and TV Series
I got distracted by a few minor emergencies at work while I was researching the curriculum at real world military test pilot schools, so I meant to respond a lot earlier. While I was drafting my reply, it occurred to me the answer was actually coming from another direction entirely. Specifically, it's not about the needs of the test pilot school... it's about the military's habits regarding aircraft tuning. Barring a few isolated cases of "ace tuning" (like the VF-27γ) or built-to-order aircraft (like the VF-11MAXL), the military in Macross seems to generally stick to factory tunings or are inclined to detune hardware to improve reliability, reduce maintenance requirements, and extend the service lives of key parts (like the VF-171). Tuning for improved performance (at the implicit cost of durability/lifespan) is more a thing we see from irregulars like Sound Force and non-military users like SMS/Xaos. But is this aircraft from before or after Macross 7? Is it, though? From what I recall, the VF-11C was a mixed bag that offered largely identical or slightly better performance thanks to avionics improvements. The only area I recall it being mentioned as deficient vs. the VF-11B was that the omission of its bayonet made it less capable in close quarters combat. Wouldn't that be what simulators and training versions of the more ambitious aircraft are for? (e.g. the VF-19B?) If it operates anything like a modern military test pilot school, there is a separate course specifically for flight test engineers that covers that kind of thing in excruciating detai. We know that there are at least some software-based performance limiters built into the airframe control AI and other system software... though some of the tunings would have to be done manually, in the hardware. -
Yellow Belmont's official character bio identifies his place of birth as Mars Base, Mars... given his age (22) he was presumably born there in 2060 or 2061. The episode where his backstory is discussed/shown (#11 "Lullaby of Distant Hope") shows that he was part of the 1st Earth Recapture operation in 2080, and that Carla rescued him from the wreckage of his AF-03 Convert after it was brought down in the fighting. His rank and unit affiliation are unknown, though it is noted he was a reluctant soldier who joined because his father was a career soldier and one of the commanders of the 1st Earth Recapture mission. (Robotech's fans and, later, franchise staff assumed that he was part of the Mars 10th Battle Company because the Ride Armor he uses in the show has 10th Company markings, though it was likely salvaged in the original MOSPEADA.) That site's not even accurate for Robotech, never mind MOSPEADA...
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The name change only lasted about a year... they changed it in 1980 and changed it back in 1981. Maybe a little... but that was mostly Tatsunoko Production's desire for a Macross-like breakout hit of their own at work.
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They were the project's original producers/financial backers. Back in 1980, ARTMIC had changed its name to the Wiz Corporation and was sponsoring the development of a series concept pitched by Shoji Kawamori called Genocidas. When that failed to thrill potential investors, a more sponsor-friendly proposal for a Gundam parody anime called Battle City Megaroad was thrown together. That concept was what the pictured Breast Fighter and Megaroad were made for. Not long after Battle City Megaroad went into serious development, internal issues at Wiz Corp. forced it to withdraw from the project. It changed its name back to ARTMIC soon after, while Studio Nue shopped its orphaned project around and found a new backer in the advertising agency Big West.
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IMO, the most impressive bit is that such a small device has a transmitter with a 30km range. Modern technology has offered some of those features in similarly-sized packages. There are several different manufacturers of fingernail-sized UV radiation exposure sensors that are meant to be worn that way. MIT's done a lot with fingernail-mounted sensors for a variety of purposes, including fingernail-mounted biometric sensors meant to be an alternative for the skin-mounted sensors that occasionally prove problematic for patients with limited mobility and a fingernail-mounted trackpad called NailO. (My favorite is already in production, swallowable self-powered sensors with short-ranged wireless transmitters for measuring things like core body temperature small enough to fit into gelcaps.)
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What can we expect from a new Macross Series?
Seto Kaiba replied to akt_m's topic in Movies and TV Series
Eh... maybe to a viewer who wasn't paying attention, but even then it's strictly superficial. As in Macross 7, Macross Delta is quite upfront with the viewer that this is all strictly in the realm of science and technology and wastes no time explaining as much. Literally within a couple minutes of the first battle ending they get right into it. -
It's not really discussed in the show proper, but an episode of Delta Mini Theater from the Blu-rays does explain the technology. The model is "LF6se Multi-Device", a device the size of a press-on fingernail that includes a holographic display, vital sign and bio-fold wave monitoring, and communications functions with a 30km range.
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What can we expect from a new Macross Series?
Seto Kaiba replied to akt_m's topic in Movies and TV Series
My apologies in advance for the potato quality, for my own lazy convenience I grabbed this screenshot from a fansub of Delta Mini Theater that a fan uploaded to Facebook a while back. Yes, there's literally an extra feature on the Blu-rays devoted to showing that this is purely technological... and not even that advanced, by in-universe standards. Like the vast majority of the tech Walkure uses, we've seen this before... (art taken from the Macross Frontier: Itsuwari no Utahime Blu-ray booklet) The "Black WD-200W Walkure series" stage costume and WD-120 undersuit that RsP35 nitrogen gas jet cluster is used with is functionally identical to Sheryl Nome's holographic undersuit that Sheryl was shown to wear for all her performances in the Macross Frontier TV series (art source: Macross Chronicle character sheet Macross F Citizen 02B "Sheryl Nome"). The Delta Mini Theater episode that discusses the suit and gas jet cluster even has an annoyed Reina refute the idea that it's "like magic" when Bogue thinks it. Given that holographic costume tech used for entertainment debuted all the way back in Macross: Do You Remember Love? on Hikaru and Minmay's date, and portable versions used for disguise and stage performances were first introduced in Macross II: Lovers Again, she's right to dismiss that idea. (Images sourced from This is Animation Special #5: Macross II) As I've said many times before, there ain't no magical girl stuff goin' on here... this is all technology, and all stuff that's been part of the Macross setting for ages. -
Crazy Macross Designs I want to see Built
Seto Kaiba replied to slaginpit's topic in Anime or Science Fiction
Macross 7. -
Crazy Macross Designs I want to see Built
Seto Kaiba replied to slaginpit's topic in Anime or Science Fiction
To be fair, the VFs in Macross Frontier and Macross Delta are all directly linked designs from the same generation and base model. It's somewhat less than surprising that they all look similar. That's from FamilySoft's Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Remember Me for the NEC PC-9801... one of a trio of Macross strategy games FamilySoft made. That said, it's not a post-First Space War Destroid. FamilySoft's Macross games were all side stories set during the First Space War. Remember Me used a mixture of events from the TV and Movie versions, while its sequels Skull Leader and Love Stories used Movie version events in their stories. The original mecha introduced in FamilySoft's games - the VF-X3 Medusa, LDR-04 Maverick, and SDP-1 Stampede Pack - were presented as original/improvised developments by the Macross's onboard factory similar to the SDR-04-Mk.XII Phalanx Destroid in the official setting. You had to unlock 'em via the resource management mechanic in the games. The Maverick was the long-ranged missile counterpart to the Phalanx meant to work in concert with the Monsters for long-range suppression attacks. (In an entertaining coincidence, the remarks in the game manual imply that its full designation also ends in Mk.XV same as the later Super Defender.) Yeah, all of the designs in Palladium's Absolutely Not The Sentinels Sourcebook (AKA the UEEF Marines Sourcebook) were either Imai Files designs used basically unaltered or this kind of "frankenmech" (Palladium's own term) standing in for the Sentinels designs that had been deemed too close to the original Macross ones to safely use. If you look, most of 'em are made from a combination of Legioss, TLEAD, and Auroran parts that are wildly out of scale with each other. -
Nah, it's gesture control... they've got some kind of mini-computer terminal embedded in their press-on fingernails.
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What can we expect from a new Macross Series?
Seto Kaiba replied to akt_m's topic in Movies and TV Series
... but that's demonstrably not true. Macross 7 was, and still is, absolutely the apex of "glowy" for the franchise. Nothing in Macross before or since comes close to a rock band fighting space kaiju and their vampire army thanks to being given the ability to fight by weaponizing The Power of Rock with tokusatsu-esque VFs, what might as well be DBZ-style power levels, glowing battle auras, and energy beams made of pure emotion. They took it right down to frigging zero immediately thereafter in Macross Dynamite 7, which is about the main character from Macross 7 traveling to a remote planet to be a wandering space bum and accidentally getting caught up in a fight between the a taciturn conservationist, the local cops, and some space whale poachers with nothing but an acoustic guitar, his wits, and whatever VF was left unattended. There was nothing particularly outlandish in Zero or Frontier except Sara Nome's fold songs having the power to restore the Birdhuman because her entire lineage were created for that one specific job by the Protoculture. Delta's Tactical Sound Unit Walkure is just a pale shadow of the shenanigans Sound Force got up to in 7... the only thing remotely unconventional about Walkure is that they use song to counter a dangerous disease. Their equipment is all stuff we've seen before, and even using songs to counter mind control is right outta 7. -
What can we expect from a new Macross Series?
Seto Kaiba replied to akt_m's topic in Movies and TV Series
We've seen a lot of hyperbolic nonsense on this score, and it is exactly that... nonsense. Macross has always been heavily involved in selling the music used in the anime. This isn't new. This isn't even any more extreme than what was done in Macross 7. It's just this time it was a girl group instead of a rock band. Even the tech that some lambasted as "magical girl"-esque was not new by any means. It was well-precedented tech from previous shows. Kawamori and co. like to experiment with Macross, approaching its core concepts from different angles and viewpoints. That's why we've had such a diverse body of stories, and why we really shouldn't waste our time trying to predict what Kawamori will do next. He's going to put together some bizarre combination of concepts and it'll work suspiciously well. In the past, we've had stories that de-emphasize mecha, and stories that emphasize mecha over the rest. Macross's creators mix things up to keep it fresh. Been there, done that... in Macross 7, actually. The show's principal antagonists, the Protodeviln, were energy beings from higher-dimensional space that were accidentally trapped in the bodies of bio-tech superweapons the ancient Protoculture created during the height of their civil war. The only way they could survive in three-dimensional space was to harvest higher-dimensional energy (spiritia) from the minds of living beings, and created the Supervision Army to help them not starve to death. The titular emigrant fleet discovered that certain rare individuals could produce a lot more of that higher-dimensional energy and even unconsciously control it to a certain extent, and invented a way to weaponize it by collecting, amplifying, and focusing it. (You could grossly oversimplify the series by saying a rock band fights emotion-vampires by blasting them with the emotional high of rocking the f*ck out.) Technically, we've also seen songs create force fields in Frontier and Delta as well. The Vajra communicate and manipulate fold waves by "singing" (albeit not anything humans would recognize as song) and can use those fold waves in manners identical to purely technological solutions humanity uses to do things like warp spacetime into an impassible barrier. The Protoculture ship Sigur Berrentzs in Macross Delta had a similar capability. -
Still near the top of this Rabbit hole of Macross.
Seto Kaiba replied to Photogirl's topic in Movies and TV Series
I'm not aware of any translation patches for those PC Engine SuperCD games... but then, I haven't exactly looked very hard for one either since I can read enough Japanese to get by. I suspect a lot of it may be that you didn't watch all of Macross 7... since that sets up a LOT of the later stories, but is also one huge expansion on the backstory of the Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series that explains how the Protoculture civilization fell and why, and introduces us to those directly responsible for it as the show's principal antagonists. It's also what set up a lot of the nature of in-universe dramatizations of the First Space War, since it introduced the idea that DYRL? was a movie in the universe (at least, within a show, the concept was also explained in print media) and had the main characters be involved in filming another TV docu-drama based on the First Space War during the course of the story. (There's also the vague implication that Macross II is a work of speculative fiction in-universe, since almost the entire OVA soundtrack seems to be the galactic billboard Top 40 and the Minmay Attack Girl has some brief cameo appearances.) -
Still near the top of this Rabbit hole of Macross.
Seto Kaiba replied to Photogirl's topic in Movies and TV Series
Sort of... Macross II: Lovers Again is officially classified as a parallel world story, but like the main continuity it does kind of cut a dash between the two versions albeit in a way that draws far more heavily in DYRL? than the TV series. You could argue that it's technically drawing more on the novelization of DYRL?, as the Macross is shown to have had the Daedalus and Prometheus as its arms during the First Space War in Macross 2036 and Macross: Eternal Love Song, as well as in some promotional material made for the OVA itself before its release. (It has some distinctly TV-esque bits, like Quamzin not dying fighting Roy, and instead living on Earth briefly before acquiring a ship and fleeing into space... albeit only to return as an antagonist in Macross 2036 and Eternal Love Song.) It's just Kawamori being auteur... he doesn't want to end up in continuity lockout the way some properties (e.g. Gundam) have done. He wants to be free to tell the stories he wants to tell, so his attitude towards continuity is a "broad strokes" one when it comes to the TV shows. Other materials, like light novels, manga, games, artbooks, and so on tend to do a bit more with actual continuity because they're marketed to fans who are naturally inclined to want that kind of thing. It's kinda like how Gundam has the AU stories for folks who want just a standalone story and the UC for die-hard fans who are into continuity porn. Yeah, Kawamori has indicated directly or indirectly on a number of occasions that he's not keen on direct sequels and the like. His attitude towards the Hikaru-Misa-Minmay situation is that their story arc had a natural conclusion, so it's best to let it be. They've sailed off into the metaphorical sunset. The stuff about not wanting to feed HG is just fan conjecture AFAIK. HG never had any rights to Macross's sequels apart from the merchandising rights to DYRL? it got in '01, so it's not like they can do anything even if Macross went on a TV series referencing spree. Nope... it's just the author's personal preference, and as we've shown his preference changes on a case-by-case basis. Eh... the official Macross timeline essentially takes the TV series version of the story as gospel and the entirety of Macross 7 is one long explanation of the mentioned-only Supervision Army from the TV series version of the story and all references to the ancient Protoculture are built on that. It's just that they seem to prefer to use the more visually impressive DYRL? designs to be used in subsequent animated works that are set after it. It's explicitly not the case, though. Later titles perceptions of history may be muddied somewhat by the many, MANY in-universe docu-dramas about Lynn Minmay and the First Space War that were filmed using later versions of real ships and mecha like Do You Remember Love? using postwar VF-1's and having a West Point-class training ship with a holographic camouflage applied to it stand in for the Zentradi mothership. Many characters are more familiar with and connected to those dramatizations than the actual history, esp. since Do You Remember Love? was one of those films that defined a generation when it came out in 2031. -
Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!
Seto Kaiba replied to Valkyrie Driver's topic in Movies and TV Series
So... fun thought, I think this might actually be the first time we've seen art of a VF-11D being used for its intended purpose as a training aircraft. We've seen the ELINT/AWACS conversion the VE-11 Thunder Seeker, the modified VF-11D's used by the Jamming Birds and the Thunder Focus camera aircraft used to film Vanquish Races, but I honestly can't recall ever seeing a VF-11D in regular military markings being used for its intended purpose. Source is the Hasegawa 1/72 Thunderbolt Test Pilot School type kit: https://www.hlj.com/1-72-scale-vf-11d-thunderbolts-test-pilot-school-hsg65866 -
Still near the top of this Rabbit hole of Macross.
Seto Kaiba replied to Photogirl's topic in Movies and TV Series
Barring what we've been told about the forthcoming Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!!, Macross doesn't really do sequels as such... each story is effectively stand-alone. Macross 7 borrowed from the TV series and DYRL? movie in equal measure, sometimes in the same scene. Like when they were shooting The Lynn Minmay Story in-series, and had a DYRL? Vrlitwhai next to a TV Quamzin. After Frontier, there's the implication that the SDF-1's redesign was partly becuase they used bits that were made for the mass production Macross-class ships that all follow the DYRL? design. What they're depicting, though, is the version of the ship's launch from the TV series as well as the ship's origin from the TV series. The same scene also points to TV series order of events for the bombardment of Earth and the Minmay Attack, albeit with DYRL? visuals. Like I said, Kawamori likes to mix and match... seemingly without rhyme or reason. EDIT: I should add that there are several other depictions of the First Space War that use the DYRL?-style SDF-1 Macross design but give it the Daedalus and Prometheus, including the novelization of the movie and the Macross the First manga. -
Still near the top of this Rabbit hole of Macross.
Seto Kaiba replied to Photogirl's topic in Movies and TV Series
"Canon" is a pretty useless concept, since Kawamori considers every Macross series to effectively be stand-alone and inconsistently picks and chooses bits he likes in any given story. Later Macross titles have referenced the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series, however. This is Animation Special: Macross Plus and Macross: A Future Chronicle offer some insight into how TV and Movie designs are said to coexist. For instance, the version of the VF-1 Valkyrie from the Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series is said to be representative of the first five production blocks of the VF-1 Valkyrie while the Macross: Do You Remember Love? version of the Valkyrie is representative of Block 6 and later VF-1 Valkyries. There's a similar attitude taken with Exsedol's design, with the one being what he looks like as a miclone with his special genetic traits stripped out and the other being what he looks like normally when he's a giant. The SDF-1 Macross itself is said to have properly had the Daedalus and Prometheus and been retrofitted into how it appeared in DYRL? during its restoration. Pretty much all the technical material takes the attitude that there are parts of both versions that are accurate in the "true" history, usually in the form of the TV version being early model hardware and DYRL version being later model hardware. We've seen other, explicit nods to the original series in a few shows directly too. The New UN Spacy 33rd Marines are shown to have the TV and Movie body armor designs in use concurrently. The honor guard that greets Sheryl when she lands on Gallia IV was entirely decked out in TV version body armor. (They seem to have presented the TV version as infantry armor and the one from the movie as a pilot suit instead.) The Zentradi suffering from Var syndrome in Macross Delta's first episode also have the TV version armor on. Berger Stone's summary of music's history as a "weapon" in Macross also uses the Supervision Army gunship design for the pre-restoration SDF-1 Macross... the one from the Macross Model Hobby Handbook that never made it into the show proper. He uses BGM from the original series for that sequence too, and the completed SDF-1 Macross is shown taking off with no arms, meaning this is the TV version (the DYRL? version already had ARMDs attached when it took off, as seen in the game adaptation). When the topic turns to song, the song Minmay is shown singing is Love Drifts Away (even though the visuals are her DYRL dress and DYRL Zentradi). Ernest Johnson's office aboard the Macross Elysion has, as decoration, a TV version SDF-1 Macross model that has the Daedalus and Prometheus. Milia, in Macross 7, has her TV series VF-1J Super Valkyrie as a privately owned VF... until Gamlin borrows it and it gets wrecked. She has a TV version pilot suit for it as well. IIRC, we also see TV series versions of the UN Forces uniform worn by the old timers who crew the Monster destroid as well. Millard Johnson in Macross Plus may be a walking TV series reference, as Macross Chronicle connected him to Hikaru as one of his subordinates in the SVF-1 Skulls. (Max was Skull Leader instead in DYRL?.) Macross the Ride makes explicit reference to the Angel Birds, the flight demonstration unit that only appears in the TV series, with an Angel Birds VF-19 variant. Nope, the two do not discuss it... the closest they get is screening selected clips from the in-universe version of the movie Do You Remember Love? which has some scenes that are not in the real world version of the movie like Max and Milia's wedding in Meltran uniforms. -
Still near the top of this Rabbit hole of Macross.
Seto Kaiba replied to Photogirl's topic in Movies and TV Series
For one, they're not really "the universe's 3 greatest folk heroes"... its more like "Minmay and those two other guys". Roy, oddly enough, seems to have far more enduring notoriety than Hikaru in-universe. Of the original main trio, Minmay was the only one who was properly famous. Even then, her enduring fame and her status as one of Earth's cultural icons has a lot more to do with the various in-universe dramatizations of her life filmed after she left Earth back in 2012 than it does with her actual achievements in her brief music career. Her legend grew in the telling, you see. For a good while, the New UN Government covered up the disappearance of the Megaroad-01 for fear that its disappearance might damage the public's confidence in the Humankind Seeding Project. It's unclear when exactly they declassified it, but in the Macross Frontier series, wealthy Zentradi business mogul Richard Bilra collaborates with Macross Galaxy in an attempt to use the proposed galaxy-wide zero-time fold communications network to find Megaroad-01 in 2059. Shady businessman Berger Stone presents an unverifiable rumor that Lady M is somehow connected to Megaroad-01 in Macross Delta in 2067 too. A fansub group jumped to the conclusion that Minmay was Lady M and put it as fact in their fansubs... Officially, the show's creators never gave Lady M an identity. -
Crazy Macross Designs I want to see Built
Seto Kaiba replied to slaginpit's topic in Anime or Science Fiction
Macross II: Lovers Again's prequel games - Macross 2036 and Macross: Eternal Love Song - also had a number of new riffs on Zentradi mecha: http://www.gearsonline.net/series/macross/2036/ -
Still near the top of this Rabbit hole of Macross.
Seto Kaiba replied to Photogirl's topic in Movies and TV Series
Because they're all an island unto themselves... sometimes explained as them all being dramatizations of a "true" Macross history. In practical terms, it's best not to think about it too hard. Kawamori takes whatever designs and story beats he particularly likes from any given version and uses those in the next with, or without, explanation. -
Crazy Macross Designs I want to see Built
Seto Kaiba replied to slaginpit's topic in Anime or Science Fiction
Valkyries are Macross's most iconic design works... one of the main things that visually sets Macross apart from the hundreds of other mecha anime out there. If you want boring, generic, slow 'n stompy, ground-bound robots there are loads of other titles that can oblige you. Like Gundam. Please bear with us while we attempt to locate a vomiting reaction image strong enough to properly express the full extent of our disgust. I'm pretty sure citing a Palladium Books "original" design from their "please don't sue us" collection in the Absolutely Not The Sentinels sourcebook is as close to objectively bad taste as it gets. Even Robotech fans hated the designs in that book. But the reality is that it's not, and it really doesn't belong here. -
Star Trek: Picard (CBS All-Access)
Seto Kaiba replied to UN Spacy's topic in Anime or Science Fiction
If we're REALLY picking nits, there isn't even really an agreed-upon universal definition of "utopia" beyond "a perfect society"... there've been lots and lots of different takes on the idea over the years since the term was first coined in 1516. Star Trek's utopia fits into a few of the broad categories that've been defined in literature since the term was coined. First and foremost, the Federation is a Socialist Utopia, in a style similar to the ones described by Wells, Efremov, and Morris. It's free of capitalism and consumerism, and in retrospect regards them as disruptive influences on society. The egalitarian distribution of food and goods, as well as essential services like education and medical care, made money a societally-irrelevant concept and led to its abolition. Citizens only do work they enjoy and which is for the common good, leaving them more time for the pursuit of the arts and sciences. The Federation also has characteristics of a Scientific Utopia, similar in nature to the idea first toyed with by Francis Bacon. Advanced medical technology has greatly extended the human lifespan and has generally freed humanity from things like disease, disability, and untimely death. Advanced manufacturing technology (matter synthesizers, replicators) has displaced humans from menial manufacturing roles and other advanced technology had taken over the majority of other kinds of menial labor. Education is ubiquitous, and everyone has unrestricted access to humanity's collective achievements in the arts and sciences. The expansion of humanity's collective body of scientific knowledge is a primary cultural goal. It's also an Egalitarian Utopia, as the Federation has true social and legal equality among all species, races, genders, sexual orientations, religions, and what have you. You could also say it's a Democratic Utopia, in that the government is set up in such a way that it truly represents the interests and collective will of the people. Again, universal accord is not a prerequisite for a utopia... there have been many, MANY different takes on the underlying concept in its almost 2,400 year documented history. Y'see, that's not really a workable example of what you're trying to say. Yes, Sisko's has limited seating... but everyone has equal access to Sisko's and nobody's going hungry either. If Sisko's has no free tables, they can wait or go to one of the other restaurants in the area at which they are equally welcome. If that doesn't suit, they can use a transporter and visit any restaurant anywhere on the planet (or orbiting space stations) that suits their fancy. If their heart is set on a particular dish, they can get it just as easily from a replimat or out of their personal replicator. It might not taste exactly the same as a dish prepared in a real kitchen (whether people can truly distinguish replicated food from real food is debatable, as food snobs are heavily involved in the "can" side) but it's just as nutritious if not moreso and it's available on demand at whatever temperature best suits it and/or your preferences. (It wouldn't be surprising if Sisko's offered replication patterns for its dishes too, as a form of "takeout".) A "has not" in this case is someone who isn't able to get a meal at all. Not being able to get into Sisko's at a specific time is an inconvenience, not a lack of equal access.- 2171 replies
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