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Seto Kaiba

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  1. Seto Kaiba
    They're said to have the same performance as the standard New UN Forces designs they're based on... but they adopt more Zentradi overtechnology in their construction. It seems to be a sentimental/aesthetic touch on the part of the all-Zentradi Macross 5 fleet.
  2. Seto Kaiba
    Ah, this one's a popular question. Due to some syntactic ambiguity on the part of some fansubs, it was accidentally made to look like Howard Glass was president of the entire New UN Government. He's not. He's the (4th) president of the Macross Frontier fleet government, which is a New UN Government member "state". The New UN Government's seat of power and general assembly is back on Earth.
  3. Seto Kaiba
    Many of the folks in Cowboy Bebop's heavily Chinese-influenced space-future are supposedly mixed. I'd always assumed the same is true for Jet, since his skin tone is close to Spike's and a fair bit lighter than Edward's.
  4. Seto Kaiba
    It's never really touched on, that I'm aware of... We know emigrant fleets sometimes mine asteroids for raw materials. I'd assume they'd go for something a bit safer than tapping a star, though. Like extracting water ice from comets and other space debris to be decomposed into hydrogen and oxygen or mining the atmospheres of gas giants which typically contain large amounts of hydrogen and hydrogen compounds.
  5. Seto Kaiba
    Well, yes... though even just adapting the existing story is enough to get a writing credit. It becomes a problem when they get carried away and start putting their own "spin" on the story that takes it in a very different direction from what they were adapting. It's certainly possible... though, for me, the divergences are blatant enough to break my immersion in the story because the characterization ends up being very different, often in ways that do not aid the story. Eh... I dunno, maybe I'm overreacting to that. But then again, maybe not. Jet was hands-down the most experienced, versatile, multi-talented, and intellectual member of the Bebop's crew in the anime. When you cast a black actor in the role - apparently for no reason other than because the character's surname is "Black" - and subsequently rewrite that erudite and highly-skilled character into a barely literate ten-thumbed dumbass ex-convict who is so hopelessly stupid he has to be told not to wash his feet in the toilet, it's pretty easy to look at that and think to yourself "That feels kinda racist. Is that racist?"
  6. Seto Kaiba
    Finished Ghost in the Shell: Arise today. It's not bad... but Arise is weak tea compared to the likes of the Ghost in the Shell movie or Stand Alone Complex. It's every bit as beautifully animated as you'd expect from a Ghost in the Shell title, but it's lacking on all fronts in the narrative. It has neither the heavy cyberpunk atmosphere of the original Ghost in the Shell movie nor the lighthearted humanity of the Stand Alone Complex series, and it lacks the philosophizing about the nature of humanity, society, and the soul that underpinned both. It's just a clumsily-executed prequel and origin story for Public Security Section 9. Despite being an OVA with the longer per-episode runtime that entails, the story feels weirdly rushed and jumbled. There's some decent worldbuilding involving Japan's participation in nuclear World War III and non-nuclear World War IV, but it all gets swept under the rug because it's only in service of a there-and-gone-again plot about a JSDF colonel being a defense industry war profiteer. My Senpai is Annoying continues to be light, fluffy, slice of life shenanigans... but nevertheless quite enjoyable for it.
  7. Seto Kaiba
    Unlike the SDF-1 Macross, which needed to transform in order to reconnect its main gun up to its power distribution network again after the disappearance of the fold system due to insufficient quantities of replacement energy conduit... the transformation of a ship like a Battle-class entails reallocation of the ship's reactor/generator output because power usage is prioritized differently for combat vs. normal cruising. When cruising in Fortress Ship mode, a later-generation Macross-type is using the output of its thermonuclear reactors for: Propulsion: the engines use plasma produced in the thermonuclear reactors as a propellant. This unfortunately means that a fair amount of energy in the fusion plasma is lost as it's blown out of the reactor to produce thrust. Stealth: the later-generation Macross-type warships, like most later New UN Forces warships, uses a mixture of passive and active stealth technologies to reduce the odds of detection by a hostile power. Active stealth is rather energy intensive, since it involves analyzing incoming radar waves and broadcasting waves of the same amplitude and frequency but opposite phase to cancel out the enemy's radar return and trick the enemy radar into thinking it didn't receive a return. Supplemental power for Colony Operations: when connected to a City-class, Mainland-class, Island Cluster-class, etc. emigrant ship, some of the Battle-class's reactor output can be redirected to the needs of the environment ship(s) incl. charging the larger fold system used to fold the two ships when they're docked. When the ship switches to Storming Attack mode, power is reprioritized for: Weaponry: the Macross Cannon gunship invariably has its own internal thermonuclear reactors, but it can be charged much faster by allocating energy from the ship's other reactors. There are also many defensive and offensive beam weapons scattered all over the body of the ship which draw on generator power in combat as well. Even under normal conditions it can take upwards of five minutes to charge the Macross Cannon for a single shot, so every little bit helps. Defense: the technologies used to improve the defensive ability of a space warship are notoriously energy-intensive. Later generation Macross-type warships are known to use energy conversion armor to supplement the already-impressive strength of their hypercarbon composite hull armor. Barrier technology, even pinpoint barriers, are also known to be extremely energy-intensive to operate since they derive their defensive capability from a localized warping of spacetime. (On VFs, the relatively small pinpoint barrier system is known to consume as much as 60% of the total generator output of the VF.)
  8. Seto Kaiba
    There are three main reasons: More (exposed) surface area on which to mount weaponry. Greater combat maneuverability via thrust-vectoring of the main and sub-engines in the legs and torso. More freedom to employ the main super dimension energy cannon ("Macross Cannon") in terms of field of fire (as in being able to aim the gun without having to turn the entire ship). It's been said that the smaller Macross-type warships like the Macross Quarter-type have taken the maneuverability aspect to the point of practically being able to dogfight like a very large fighter. Since weapons on later Macross-type warships are mainly stored internally except for the heaviest turrets to keep the ship stealthy, the transformation allows the ship to expose more weapons than its Fortress Ship mode would ordinarily be capable of presenting with its available surface area.
  9. Seto Kaiba
    Presumably that capability was covered elsewhere... like the heavily armed Grave Battleship and the heavy converging beam cannon-equipped scout.
  10. Seto Kaiba
    We don't know. Why the Supervision Army was the Supervision Army has never been explained.
  11. Seto Kaiba
    Not that we know. Booby-trapping wrecked warships seems to be a Supervision Army thing. Hard to say... but the UN Government would've had the opportunity to make peaceful contact as they had originally planned instead of accidentally convincing the Zentradi that they had located a Supervision Army military installation and provoking a shooting war. How successful that might've been is a mystery, but the fact that the Macross had been remodeled extensively from its original design would probably have bought them time to talk via the Zentradi's sheer confusion. The only time an alternate series of events surrounding first contact was touched on in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy, it was a rogue NUNS colonel trying to use a Protoculture temporal weapon to make the first contact event un-happen altogether rather than changing the circumstances.
  12. Seto Kaiba
    To be honest, I don't think it's even necessarily anything visual. It's that the writers and producers working on these projects can never seem to leave well enough alone. They always feel compelled to mess with the original story and/or setting in some way, and it's usually detrimental. Like whatever the hell the coked-up writers of Dragonball Evolution were thinking. Or how Speed Racer's writers wasted precious screen time on a nonsense subplot that tried to fake out Racer X's identity. Or Ghost in the Shell's writers devoting fairly half the movie to a convoluted subplot intended to justify whitewashing the very explicitly Japanese Motoko Kusanagi. Cowboy Bebop's writers couldn't resist messing with almost everything. Anime Spike as a mysterious loner with a temper who didn't care for dogs, kept his past a secret, and spent his time pining for his lost love Julia. Netflix Spike is a quirky action-comedy protagonist with a noodle obsession, who squees over Ein rather than proposing corgi carbonara, and has an atrocious gangland alias of "Fearless". Anime Jet was a salt-of-the-earth ex-cop with a great love of music and excellent mechanical skills who keeps the Bebop and everything on it in working order while also serving as the ship's cook. Netflix Jet is a barely competent dumbass who has to be told that you use a bidet to wash your arse, not your feet... which comes off as more than slightly racist since he's played by a black actor. ESPECIALLY since his backstory was changed to also make him an ex-convict. Anime Faye was a femme fatale, a liar, and a con artist with a gambling addiction who eventually falls in unreciprocated love with Spike. Netflix Faye has none of anime Faye's character traits except her tragic backstory... and is now a fanservice bisexual. Anime Vicious was a complete psycho with a ruthless will to power who had no problem at all with murdering his superiors to seize control. Netflix Vicious is... Lucius Malfoy with a katana, complete with compulsive toadying. Netflix massively expanded Julia's role and made her a main villain but she also has to be sympathetic so she's a domestic abuse victim as well. It goes on and on and on. There's basically no character in this mess that resembles their original version. I think perhaps the most egregious case is Gren, the crime syndicate member who was a victim of human experimentation in the original work is now just a non-binary character with none of their original backstory. With so many arbitrary and detrimental changes to the characters and story, it doesn't feel like Cowboy Bebop... it's more like an original skit performed by Cowboy Bebop cosplayers at an anime convention.
  13. Seto Kaiba
    Like I said earlier, if you have questions we have answers. This thread wouldn't be 157 pages long (and counting) if people didn't have questions worth answering.
  14. Seto Kaiba
    Technologically speaking, no... there was nothing at all special or unique about the ship that crashed on Earth and became the Macross. If it'd been another class of ship that crashed, about all they might've missed out on would've been super dimension energy weaponry. Assuming, of course, humanity wouldn't end up recreating it through application of the principles they learned in reverse-engineering the ship's systems like they did with thermonuclear reaction weaponry. It's noted in Macross Chronicle to have had some battle pods aboard, though what type isn't specified.
  15. Seto Kaiba
    It depends on what's stored on the wing pylons. For large munitions, it simply doesn't fold the wings... as seen in Super Dimension Fortress Macross ep27 with the RMS-1 thermonuclear reaction warheads. For smaller munitions like the AMM-1 Arrow multipurpose missile, the underwing pylons can rotate and there is enough clearance for them to do so with the missiles attached without having them bump up against the cockpit block. Nah. Hikaru was, however, one of the more skilled pilots in the SVF-1 Skulls and was selected to assume command of that squadron after his CO (Roy) passed. The F203 Dragon II is not related to variable fighter development. It was a UN Forces conventional fighter jet that was developed during the Unification Wars to adopt new materials and technological improvements that would have been difficult or impossible to retrofit into older models of fighter. It served alongside various pre-OTM conventional fighters during the Unification Wars until it was... forcibly retired... when the Zentradi vaporized them all in the orbital bombardment shortly before the First Space War ended. (While it is not strictly canon, Variable Fighter Master File even asserts there was a naval version that was considered to be F-20N.) Most of the battles in the Unification Wars were fought with conventional weaponry. Even in 2008, there were maybe a hundred operational Variable Fighters on the entire planet, with only around 60 VF-0s existing and most of those assigned to just two aircraft carriers - CVN-99 Asuka II and CVN-100 Graf Zeppelin II - for evaluation and ad hoc training use. It wasn't until very late 2008 that the first VF-1 Valkyries came off the line... most of the first few production lots went to the CVS-101 Prometheus and SDF-1 Macross, and ended up out in space.
  16. Seto Kaiba
    Most Macross resources to comment on the topic put the post-war human population at approximately one million people. With the exception of the crew of the SDF-1 Macross, the survivors were those individuals who were assigned to underground military bases like the incomplete Grand Cannon III and Grand Cannon V or were offworld at installations like Apollo Base on Luna, the L5 Manufacturing Station, the space colonies at the Earth-Moon Lagrange points, and the few UN Spacy warships assigned close protection duty at those locations like the Constellation and the Midway. After the war, the New UN Government authorized a mass-cloning program to increase the size of the human population and duplicate individuals with essential skills in order to accelerate the postwar recovery effort and provide enough people to support the government's plans for extrasolar space colonization via long-distance emigrant fleets. Human cloning efforts were terminated after twenty years due to a sharp rise in the incidence of recessive genetic disorders. There were also noted to be approximately eight million Zentradi remaining after the ~4 million surviving ships of the Boddole Zer main fleet withdrew from the Sol system.
  17. Seto Kaiba
    Starting Ghost in fhe Shell: Arise right now... it's a little weird seeing how everyone in this looks more or less exactly the same as they did in Stand Alone Complex except Motoko. I guess her new design better fits the idea in the movie that she went with a generic face on her prosthetic body... but stylistically it's nowhere near as appealing as her design in the manga or SAC. Her face looks painfully under-detailed compared to the rest of her, and those of the other characters. Almost to One Punch Man levels in a few shots.
  18. Seto Kaiba
    Kawamori's pretty hard to predict... It's not impossible, but after so much time it feels a bit unlikely esp. since the Supervision Army's creators have already been dealt with. Edit: Not to mention the Protoculture have supposedly been extinct for a long time themselves outside of Macross II, where the Mardook were supposed to be a surviving group of them.
  19. Seto Kaiba
    Prior to Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! the prevailing theory was that the SDF-2 Megaroad-01 had entered some kind of portal near the galactic core. That was based on a mail-in promo gift that came with the PlayStation Macross: Do You Remember Love? game that purported to be Minmay's last message to Earth. Another popular theory was that they had settled on some remote world that was isolated from the rest of the galaxy by fold faults like Uroboros or Windermere IV are, and that fold communications simply couldn't reach them because of that. Now, the answer seems to be that... Because neither side cares. The Zentradi mindset is pretty simple and straightforward. They're interested in pursuing and destroying enemies - the Supervision Army - and the ancient Protoculture's decision to indoctrinate curiosity out of them for the most part has left them largely uninterested in anything else. The Supervision Army is likely in the same boat with their brainwashing and being under constant threat from the Zentradi, there's no reason to attack an alien race that doesn't seem individually intelligent enough to have spiritia and isn't attacking them. If the Vajra aren't shooting at them, the Vajra belong to the category called "Not an Enemy" and are therefore firmly in "I don't care about that" territory. The Vajra, for their own part, are quite happy to be left to their own devices and ignore anything that isn't an overt threat to them. They'll respond with force if attacked themselves, but they have no real interest in going on the offensive unless their own kind are in imminent danger. That's not to say the occasional battle doesn't happen... but it's rare, since both sides tend to be thoroughly disinterested in each other. The Vajra attacked and destroyed a Zentradi main fleet and repurposed its mobile fortress as a nest for reasons unknown c.2009 that is seen in the second Macross Frontier movie. The novelization of the film asserts that the mobile fortress in question belongs to the Koper main fleet, a surviving reconnaissance unit of which attacks the Macross Frontier emigrant fleet in 2058 in the light novel Macross the Ride. The reason the Vajra attacked the Macross Frontier repeatedly in 2059 was because the biological fold waves in Ranka Lee's songs convinced the Vajra she was a Vajra herself, and they were trying to rescue her from danger. If not for that, they'd have left the Frontier and her fleet alone.
  20. Seto Kaiba
    Eh... sadly, an early cancellation was always the most likely outcome for this project. Live-action adaptations of anime or manga produced in the west have never been commercially successful. It doesn't seem to matter much how iconic or successful the original is or how much money the studio can afford to throw at it. Some things just don't seem to translate well enough to be viable. I'm inclined to suspect going for titles that already have brand awareness in the west hurts more than it helps since the show/movie then has to contend with the audience's memories of the original in addition to trying to succeed on its own merits. IMO, familiarity definitely hurt Netflix's Cowboy Bebop. I'm one episode in, and while it's not bad... or at least not agonizingly so... I'm not sure I could call it good either. The cast is clearly putting in a sincere effort but the writing, choreography, and effects just aren't there. My viewing experience as a Cowboy Bebop fan is a lot like having someone disguised unconvincingly as a family friend show up at my home uninvited and having to decide if it's worth the effort to call them on their dodgy impersonation before showing them out. Netflix seems to be making a lot of its keep-or-cancel decisions for its original or sponsored shows based on international market performance these days. Like Star Trek: Discovery, which did OK in the US but was poorly received globally. Netflix was only prevented from cancelling the series after just one season by CBS threatening to sue them over it.
  21. Seto Kaiba
    When I booked my ticket, the theater showed as about half full... which kind of surprised me, given that the only other Macross fan I know of in the area outside my RPG group is Kaneda's Bike.
  22. Seto Kaiba
    So... initially, the ancient Protoculture heavily indoctrinated their Zentradi forces in order to keep them obedient and prevent them from developing beyond their role as the ancient Protoculture's expendable clone army. Their directives included a general prohibition on anything outside of the relatively narrow focus of their military lifestyle (activities deemed "productive" or "creative"), very specific rules on when and how they are allowed to interact with clone troops of the opposite sex, and a safety net sort of regulation that prohibited the Zentradi from interfering with the ancient Protoculture themselves in any way. When the Supervision Army emerged, the Zentradi were unable to fight them effectively because their forces were made up of brainwashed Protoculture. The directive had to be either lifted or amended to facilitate an actual defense. By the time the war was over, the Protoculture had lost so much that they were unable to reassert control over the active Zentradi forces and reinstate the directive to not interefere with the Protoculture. Fast forward 500,000 years, and what the Zentradi remember of that ancient directive that had ceased to be a part of their everyday lives half a million years ago is that some of their most ancient military records contain dire warnings instructing the Zentradi to avoid worlds inhabited by miclones. As such, the directive is not entirely effective/observed anymore... and it requires the Zentradi to know beforehand that they're encountering miclones. It took Vrlitwhai's branch fleet some time to analyze the recorded combat data from their reconnaissance Regults that accompanied the attack on South Ataria island and discover that the people they'd attacked were miclones. It's been 500,000 years or more since any Zentradi saw a living specimen of the Protoculture, and humanity's spacecraft look nothing like the ones the Protoculture used in their heyday so the Zentradi don't inherently recognize them as "miclones". The First Space War started, if you discount the booby trap, becuase Vrlitwhai's fleet initially thought it'd found a Supervision Army base after discovering the ship they'd been chasing on the planet's surface. There is one notable incident where a commander did decide to pack up and leave like that, though. It's in the Macross II timeline's story Macross: Eternal Love Song. One of the Meltrandi main fleets chases a Zentradi main fleet into our solar system and sends a scouting party to Earth. The information the scouts bring back causes the living command computer governing the fleet to conclude it's stumbled on a surviving enclave of the ancient Protoculture and orders its forces out of the system immediately.
  23. Seto Kaiba
    Well, at least one of them anyway... factory satellites are designed to manufacture one specific product in a single, completely self-contained operation that goes all the way from collecting raw material with a fleet of drone ships to the finished fully-operational product. It's an exponentially larger version of the all-in-one factory concept behind facilities like Ford's River Rouge factory at the time of its inception. So individual factory satellites aren't self-replicating, but there is noted to be at least one factory satellite out there that has the task of building factory satellites. We can't say for certain since humanity lacks the technology to reach for other galaxies themselves... but it's definitely very unlikely that the Zentradi or Supervision Army would've made it to another galaxy. Not only are they basically completely preoccupied with their own private forever war, but it's a pretty high hurdle technologically and their lowest bidder fold systems probably aren't up to the job. It's questionable whether the ancient Protoculture's even were. The only species known to have intergalactic range are the Vajra, whose biological technology was the envy of even the Protoculture. Fold navigation is an efficient but fairly inconvenient way to get around space. As noted previously, because it's basically a form of teleportation by folder higher dimensions you're not able to examine or observe the space between Point A and Point B while you travel. You're just at one point, then you're in the folded space, then you're at the other point. The other main problem is that it requires a fairly massive amount of energy to tie higher dimension spacetime in knots using gravity control and all that energy is needed upfront as a fold jump's range is limited to how far out you can compress that space to a single point. Your maximum potential range in one fold jump is limited by the amount of energy your ship can spare for the fold system and how much energy that system can store in order to make the largest possible fold in higher-dimensional spacetime. Jumping tens or even hundreds of light years can be done reasonably casually though it still requires at least some advance notice. Thousands of light years can take a while to charge up for, and that energy demand grows in a geometric progression as distance increases. Consequently, with the level of fold technology possessed by humans and the Zentradi it can take a long time to do something like cross our own galaxy. It's been indicated that humanity's farthest-flung holdings on emigrant fleets and emigrant planets like the Brisingr cluster are 10 years away from Earth when traveling by space fold with the resources of an emigrant fleet. Andromeda's ~2.5 million light years away. To get there by space fold, assuming you could take all the fuel and resources you'd ever need with you, would take centuries or even longer with a conventional fold system. (It might be more achievable with the Vajra's zero-time fold biotechnology, the first human imitation of which is said to be ten times as capable as the conventional fold systems in use at the time... but that requires large amounts of fold quartz, which even humanity struggles to acquire by pillaging Protoculture ruins.)
  24. Seto Kaiba
    Nope. (Unless you want to look at the in-universe DYRL?'s use of the Meltrandi as a separate and distinct faction standing in for the Supervision Army as the Zentradi's opponents as the reason... that the Meltrandi designs were historically inaccurate, in other words.) Exactly how many would be hard to say for much the same reason as the number of active Zentradi main fleets... 500,000 years of battlefield attrition and replacement have left the numbers a bit muddied. The official encyclopedia Macross Chronicle indicates that a Zentradi fleet has anywhere from 20 to 50 factory satellites in its logistical support arm, and that the total number of factory satellites was well into the millions in the ancient Protoculture's heyday. The Regult type used by the Boddole Zer main fleet is produced out of the Esbeliben 4,432,369th Zentradi fully autonomous weapons development and production facility. The Glaugs came out of the Roiquonmi 330,048,902nd. The numbers on the battle suit plants were in the billions (the Nousjadeul-Ger's is the Flemenmik 7,721,242,921st, the Queadluun-Rau the Quimeliquola 74,710,020,692nd). One of the more irresponsibly bonkers things the ancient Protoculture did was set the Zentradi's logistical support arm up to be completely self-sufficient and autonomous... so there are factory satellites churning out everything from uniforms, food, and ammunition right on up the scale to personnel, warships, and even other factory satellites. It's that insane level of autonomous operation that has allowed the Zentradi and Supervision Army to wage a forever war against each other for half a million years and counting. (It's especially worrying that those massive numbers of autonomous weapons plants are the Protoculture's lowest bidder manufacturing tech... the stuff they reserved for their own use veers into Clarke's Third Law territory by dint of being able to build without limit by cheating its way around conservation of matter as long as it had an adequate power source. One can only imagine the insanity that might've ensued if they'd been able to combine that with their invention of a power source that defies conservation of energy, which they put into the Evil-series and later biotechnological horrors like the Fold Evil and Birdhuman.) Yes, Mr March is working on that. Those pesky day jobs do tend to get in the way of hobbies... though I know he's not quite as happy with the later titles that don't publish actual line art for him to color. Lucky me, I just have to keep the servers ticking over and paid-for while I work on my own site.
  25. Seto Kaiba
    At the peak of the ancient Protoculture's military power, their Zentradi forces consisted of approximately 5,000 main fleet-strength forces. Combat losses in the intervening 500,000 years have whittled that down to somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000 main fleet-strength forces by the "present day" of the First Space War in Super Dimension Fortress Macross or Macross: Do You Remember Love?. "Yes and no". Space is big. Really big. Unreasonably so, in fact, if your goal is to cover an interplanetary or interstellar distance quickly. Traveling those long distances by folding higher-dimension spacetime is a quick and relatively efficient way to circumvent vast distances very quickly, but because space folding is effectively a form of teleportation it's a terrible way to travel if you're looking for something that you don't know the location of (like an enemy fleet) or you just want to explore. It doesn't offer any way to see what's in the space between Points A and B. For this reason, large fleets (both humanity's and the Zentradi's) rarely travel as a single monolithic formation. The fleet's main force is surrounded by a loose halo of small sub-fleet scouting forces and early warning pickets spread across light years of space in every direction to warn of approaching threats and scout ahead of the fleet's chosen course. Most of the Zentradi fleets that humanity has encountered are these smaller "branch fleet" forces of a thousand or so warships that are dispersed around thousands of light years in search of the Supervision Army's own fleets. Vrlitwhai's fleet in the original series and DYRL? was one such scouting force. The standard strategic practice of the New UN Forces is to avoid contact with the Zentradi if at all possible, and to destroy any branch fleets that discover emigrant fleets or planets to prevent them from being attacked by larger forces like a main fleet. There hasn't been any direct mention of encountering a main fleet head-on in official setting material, but the accounts in Variable Fighter Master File incidate the prevailing strategic doctrine involving main fleets is one of avoidance... run away before they can see you, and blow up anything that might potentially provide them actionable intelligence about humanity. The VF-25 Master File tells a story about the Macross Valiant fleet finding itself in close proximity to a Zentradi main fleet that just folded into the area and executing an emergency space fold to get out of the area before they're detected, with one ship needing to be evacuated when its fold system failed and then destroyed with a dimensional warhead to prevent it from falling into Zentradi hands. In Macross II's timeline, Earth encounters several main fleets over the 80 years between the First Space War and Mardook invasion... mainly due to Zentradi ships escaping and linking up with other main fleets. "Rogue" doesn't mean "pirate" or "rebel"... just "unorganized", not under the direction of a main fleet due to the loss of the higher levels of the chain of command. Zentradi don't have concepts like piracy in their "culture", all they understand is military service and their mission to destroy the Supervision Army. The ones who become pirates or rebels are the Zentradi who have been exposed to Earth's culture and found themselves unable to fit in, like the terrorist organization Struggle in the 2010s.
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