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Seto Kaiba

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  1. Seto Kaiba
    More like saying their thirst for war left them trapped on a dying planet. Having a standing army doesn't make sense when the only enemy humanity faces is the environmental consequences of its past folly. There are no rival nations left to face, nobody who is "other" left to demonize and take up arms against. There's not even any dangerous wildlife. Even if you wanted to argue that the infantry could supplement the police in an emergency like a natural disaster or a riot, that doesn't explain the heavy weapons, the surface to air missiles, the fighter planes, the armored fighting vehicles, and the giant robots. ESPECIALLY the giant robots... what are those even FOR? Normally, the story of a mecha anime includes some kind of justification for the giant robots becoming an accepted military technology. In Gundam, they were a high-performance derivative of the construction equipment used to build and maintain space colonies. In Macross, it was because Earth was preparing for a possible conflict with alien giants. Genesis Climber MOSPEADA justified them via the Inbit's own bio-technological mecha that overpowered conventional weapons. But Southern Cross never offered any justification for there being giant robots... never mind such a profusion of them in the armed forces or the existence of multiple transforming models. A lot of their gear is definitely impractical enough to give off the vibe that it was meant to look impressive more than being actually useful. The Arming Doublet is a clunky and impractical form of body armor that's effectively forcing every infantryman to wear a spacesuit... but only the space forces models are actually a sealed system, so it can't even function as an environmental suit. I can't think of any practical benefit to wearing a big metal swan on one's head either, come to that. The designers just really didn't want to let go of that Ō-yoroi they designed for the series when it was a space fantasy retelling of the Sengoku period.
  2. Seto Kaiba
    Shin: There are more airplanes in the ocean than ships in the sky. The Birdhuman: Was that a challenge?
  3. Seto Kaiba
    All things considered, Glorie having a significant military space fleet and a sizable standing army despite being recently colonized and essentially barren makes even less sense in the context of the threadbare backstory to Southern Cross. It was the accumulated environmental damage from wars and reckless pollution that forced humanity to abandon Earth in the first place. You'd think after all that they'd be strongly opposed to the idea of maintaining a large military force like the ones whose cumulative recklessness imperiled the entire human race by rendering its homeworld unlivable. They'd found no indication of intelligent life in the universe besides themselves. Their spaceflight technology isn't much more advanced than our own, barring the introduction of stuff like artificial gravity and the somewhat unreliable and dangerous warp drive technology that seems limited exclusively to government ships, so there's no indication of space pirates or a hostile space-based power. Liberte was backing the colonization effort on Glorie, so they wouldn't have attacked it either. There's no clear reason for Glorie to maintain a force like the Southern Cross Army... especially not a force with so many terrain-specialized units given that Glorie is presented like it's a single-biome planet consisting entirely of tundra. Frankly, the only justification I can think of for the Southern Cross Army's existence is that it was established as a chocolate box regiment writ large... a way for the well-to-do to keep their bored kids out of trouble and hopefully teach them some discipline.
  4. Seto Kaiba
    Well, yes... but that's not exactly an achievement. The Albanian State Washing Machine Company could make the same boast. Why? Well, Harmony Gold were the only ones interested in licensing Macross, Southern Cross, and MOSPEADA back in '84. Western audiences didn't really become properly aware of the Macross franchise's existence until the newly minted crop of anime hobby magazines like Animerica started publishing the hype for a hotly anticipated new OVA coming for one of the biggest names in mecha: Macross II: Lovers Again. It was those articles that first clued most of their readers into stuff like the existence of Macross: Do You Remember Love?, Macross: Flash Back 2012, and the differences between Macross and its Robotech adaptation. Those publications also hyped a different sequel a few years later called Macross Plus. Unfortunately, Harmony Gold's license from Tatsunoko was still quite valid at the time and there was nothing they could do to back out of it and shop the series around to someone else now that there was greater interest in it. Macross 7 came and went, but because the series was too expensive to license because of the significant additional cost of licensing all of the music, so interest in Macross faded in the west. That loss of interest in the property meant Harmony Gold was able to renew its license in preparation for attempting to relaunch the Robotech franchise with no issues or competition. Macross Zero definitely made people sit up and take notice of Macross again, but by that point Harmony Gold had already long since secured the license renewal and locked in their exclusive hold on the original series. It was Macross Frontier becoming one of the most downloaded shows of 2008 that really got people talking about Macross licensing again, but again because Harmony Gold had already locked in a long term renewal of their license there was nothing to be done and their trademarks on the Macross name and logos meant licensees that would've been interested in acquiring the distribution rights to Macross Frontier and other shows wouldn't bother because of the risk of a trademark infringement suit. This most recent license renewal was probably the result of some legal leverage Harmony Gold gained over Tatsunoko due a few years earlier. Tatsunoko had taken Harmony Gold to arbitration on accusations that Harmony Gold had been skimming off the top of the royalties they owed Tatsunoko for home video, streaming, etc. sales of the animation. Their case didn't hold up, and Tatsunoko was ordered to pay Harmony Gold's court costs and attorney's fees. Tatsunoko dragged their heels on payment, and Harmony Gold did what it does best and filed a lawsuit against them for violating the arbitration order. That Tatsunoko renewed their license was a surprise, given that they'd been upset-enough with HG as a licensee to go to court against them, but it seems that Harmony Gold may have used that outstanding debt as leverage to secure a renewal. Bandai might have a vested interest in seeing Macross go global, but there wasn't anything they could do about it when they got out of the distribution business back in 2013 after deciding to switch to a strictly licensing-based business model and shuttering the US-based distributor Bandai Entertainment and its European counterpart Beez Entertainment. Tatsunoko, for their part, probably wouldn't see much difference in the bottom line between licensing to Harmony Gold or someone else. They aren't entitled to royalties from the various Macross sequels and spinoffs, so in terms of the Macross license they don't stand to make any significant gains or losses one way or the other. The minimal gains that they might make on the original Macross series by partnering with Big West to clear the way for Macross distribution would likely be mostly or entirely cancelled out by the loss of their very modest revenue stream from the royalties paid on Southern Cross and MOSPEADA. A niche operator like RightStuf might license MOSPEADA, but NOBODY wants Southern Cross except Harmony Gold. That's... not correct. Tatsunoko's hands were never tied, really. Big West and Tatsunoko petitioned the courts together to review their contracts to be sure of who owned what in the wake of Harmony Gold's asinine claims to own all of Macross, but the only thing that was properly contested was Tatsunoko's eligibility to collect royalties from sequels. The courts, of course, found that they were not eligible to collect royalties on the sequels because they were only involved in the production of the original series not the development of its IP. It's mostly that there really weren't any other takers most of the time, and on this most recent occasion Harmony Gold had some legal leverage leftover from the arbitration as described above.
  5. Seto Kaiba
    So I'm a Spider, So What? is finally starting to do something resembling advancing the plot, which is nice. This week's episode finally had the main character actually have a conversation with the mysterious Administrator D, introduced the Demon Lord during preparations for a war, and killed the hero offscreen. Another few episodes and we might actually get to the main plot.
  6. Seto Kaiba
    I'm mildly curious which ones you mean. The only FAST Pack designs I'd really consider ludicrous would be unofficial ones like the Wyvern Pack from Macross Ace that turns the VF-25 into a propeller-driven biplane. Of course, none of those will ever get dragged quite as hard as the Auroran does for being a "space helicopter"... even though it technically isn't one. That wasn't even because of misidentified material. Evil Russians were just the ultimate low-hanging fruit in the 80's, and Kevin used them liberally throughout multiple Palladium game lines incl. Robotech in order to add variety. Various flavors were added to add an antagonist to the otherwise substantial stretches of time where precisely bugger-all was happening. Southern Cross itself wasn't exactly RPG-friendly... Glorie is a barren wasteland being dragged kicking and screaming out of a nuclear winter by terraforming, it has a one world gov't and only a few actual cities, and is sparsely populated. It's not even clear why Glorie has a standing army at all since humanity hadn't encountered any aliens at all and there weren't any rival nations to fight with either. There's no catalyst for drama there until the Zor show up... and the same is true of the Robotech adaptation.
  7. Seto Kaiba
    Aren't they? I thought Toynami was making their retro/knockoff Takatoku VF-1s? (I'm not really a toy collector, so if that line got discontinued the news missed me completely.)
  8. Seto Kaiba
    To the best of my knowledge, there have been no indications of anything untoward with their rental property business turned up by any of several investigations into the finances of Harmony Gold's owners. ... so they're a completely normal corporation in that respect, yes? Seriously though, to a corporation the word "ethics" has nothing whatsoever to do with morality. When they talk about "ethical" behavior, what they mean is "legal" behavior. Any corporate ethics training boils down to nothing more than "don't do anything that might get us in legal trouble". (In my day job, I swear we get a new "ethics" web training module every time someone successfully sues the company...) Unlikely, I suspect... Frank avoided serving his prison term because of his age and an amnesty law meant to reduce prison overcrowding, and his daughter got a substantial fine but that's about it. If they do decide to bail on Robotech in exchange for a payday, they'll likely continue to live quite comfortably on the stream of income from their investments and rental property business. Even these legal battles aren't a death by a thousand cuts... it's more like the annoyance of a thousand mosquito bites since their license allowed them to deduct their legal costs from royalties owed to Tatsunoko under certain circumstances. EDIT: It should be noted that the ability to deduct legal costs from the royalties owed led to an arbitration between Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold in which Tatsunoko alleged Harmony Gold was skimming... but failed to make a sound case for it. I suspect the outcome of that arbitration played a significant role in securing Harmony Gold's license renewal. Like HG waiving the order for payment of HG's court costs and attorney's fees that Tatsunoko had previously been refusing to pony up on. To be entirely fair, you could characterize almost any development in the Robotech franchise's history as some form or other of shooting themselves in the foot.
  9. Seto Kaiba
    That's part of it, for sure... but I think the lion's share of the blame definitely belongs to other parties. Mostly, I think you could lay the blame on Tatsunoko Production and its Ammonite design group for so completely half-assing the development of Southern Cross. If they'd put in the same kind of effort other studios were putting in they'd have left more for the parties downstream to work with. Most of the Southern Cross misinformation comes from Robotech fans who got their information from the Palladium Books Robotech RPG that based itself on what information it could glean from the Japanese publications it could find. There was nothing for them to find, information-wise, for Southern Cross so they had to BS their way through it and that BS lives on as misinformation.
  10. Seto Kaiba
    Well, yeah... naturally. Harmony Gold takes excruciating care to stay within the bounds of what its license permits it to use in merchandising to avoid provoking any kind of litigation from Big West, so their options are much more limited. They're also working with a much shallower pool of prospective licensees given that Robotech's relative obscurity and small fanbase make for a much lower expected sales volume and smaller return on investment. That means fewer prospective licensees, smaller or less skilled companies, and either a lower quality product because corners get cut to reduce development and manufacturing costs or an outrageous price tag to justify the quality in small batch production. It's just the realities of merchandising. If you've got a hit property with virtually guaranteed sales you can attract the big fish. If you're small time, you get fellow small time operators or lesser effort from the few larger outfits willing to give you the time of day. Harmony Gold's licensees can't compete with Big West's licensees on an even footing in quality or diversity, so they're aiming to compete on cost with the advantage of not having to compete directly. Not wanting to have to compete directly is what started all this... when they filed for those trademarks to keep the Macross franchise out of the west.
  11. Seto Kaiba
    Sword Art Online is more of a standard shounen series, albeit on the darker side of the genre thanks to the whole "if you die in the game you die in real life" aspect. .hack//SIGN is more of a philosophical character drama about the nature of escapism and mental illness. It's definitely not as accessible to casual viewers, and it can be kind of abtruse at times. Re:Zero... well... I'm a few episodes into it now and it feels like the previous couple episodes would have benefitted from more exposition. I almost get the feeling the author's one of the rare and strange individuals who thought Haruhi's Endless Eight was a good idea, because that's kind of what the first three episodes started to feel like. Does Subaru ever get... less stupid? It's already pretty contextually clear he's some kind of Chosen One, but he's so wrong genre-savvy that he only ever seems to create more problems and piss people off. I'm also getting the distinct feeling that this story is a lot darker than it's pretending to be. Puck has made at least one leading remark suggesting he'll destroy the entire world if his master ever perishes, the King and royal family are missing and presumed dead or permanently incapacitated, and Subaru and Emilia are lodging at the home of Margrave Roswaal who might as well be wearing a sandwich board that says "I will die or turn out to be evil all along".
  12. Seto Kaiba
    Granted, it's not a bad looking little aircraft. I know there were originally some plans for a model kit of it, though I don't know if anything ever came of it before the series was canned. It accumulated a number of crackpot fan theories over the years because the animators working on the series did such a poor job drawing it that it was off-model at least as often as it was on. That led to some bizarre assumptions among western fans familiar with it from Robotech, like that there were multiple variants of it or that it had a variable-sweep wing which could switch between straight, swept, and forward-swept. (All three are technically wrong, it has a compound delta wing with "dogtooth" leading edge extensions.) The fan theories about the Sylphid being transformable were inspired by a throwaway line in the Robotech dub and the position of its gunmount making it look like it had a VF-1-esque ventral "head".
  13. Seto Kaiba
    I'd still be prepared to bet money it was pure coincidence. Even Robotech's die-hard Masters Saga fans know virtually nothing about the original Southern Cross beyond what was in the animation itself. Most of what they "know" beyond that is pure fanon or stuff Palladium came up with for the old Robotech RPG. The staff managing the Robotech brand know even less, because Southern Cross-based merch doesn't sell, so they've never had a reason to consider it beyond rejecting a few obviously out-there theories like the one claiming the Sylphid is a VF.
  14. Seto Kaiba
    For the record, just as the Late Period Bioroid Type I and II would have replaced the Middle Period models, the MS-09B Dom was basically the third main enemy mecha used by the Principality of Zeon in the original 1979 Mobile Suit Gundam series. Eh... it goes the other way as often as not. For instance, in Super Dimension Century Orguss the mecha developed by the Emaan who the protagonist is allied with have more of a rounded and streamlined aesthetic where the mecha developed by the hostile Chiram have very jagged, angular mecha designs and the genocidal Mu are quite angular as well. The way it usually shakes out is that the more rounded and streamlined a design is the more advanced it is. Sleek just seems to equal advancement and chunky equals primitive. The technology of the Southern Cross Army is all square edges and angles, while the technology of the vastly more advanced Zor is more rounded and streamlined by design. The same goes for my earlier example. The Chiram are the least advanced, technologically, of the factions in Orguss and all their stuff is hard edged. The Emaan's more advanced tech is more streamlined, and the very advanced Mu are very streamlined but with lots of sharp angles in the streamlined plates. Reconguista in G is another good example, where the mecha that are used by the Amerians and the G-Self are more rounded and streamlined and the more hostile the Capital Army gets the more angular its mecha become.
  15. Seto Kaiba
    Antitrust laws apply when a company is engaging in anti-consumer and anti-competitive behaviors like price-fixing or [having/attempting to have] a monopoly on a particular market or industry. The beef between Macross's owners and Harmony Gold is a matter of intellectual property law. Specifically, trademark law. When Harmony Gold was preparing to relaunch the Robotech franchise c.1999, they realized that they were facing the prospect of Robotech having to compete against Macross's own sequels and the higher-quality merchandise that was being imported from Japan. They initially (and mistakenly, according to them) claimed that their license gave them the exclusive rights to ALL of Macross rather than just the original series and sent a bunch of Cease and Desists to toy importers. Because their claim was groundless, that ultimately kicked off the copyright review filings in the Japanese courts so all parties could be assured of who owned what. Their fallback was filing for trademark registration on the word Macross, the series title card, and various other distinctive odds and ends as a means of ensuring they AND ONLY THEY could legally use those specific marks in the United States. Trademarks offer the owner/registrant of the trademark legal protection of a sign, design, name, or expression that distinctively identifies a particular product or service. The reason that Big West can't just go and challenge Harmony Gold's trademarks on Macross's name and logos in the US the way they could in China, the United Kingdom, and the European Union is that trademark law here is written somewhat differently. US trademark law gives precedence to the first party to use the trademark in actual commerce in the US when disputes arise. Other countries, like the ones where Big West successfully challenged HG's trademarks, have provisions that cover corner cases like the first user not being the actual owner and give precedence to the actual owner of the brand/product/property. The other thing about trademarks is that, in order to register them, you have to actually be using the mark in commerce. You can file for registration of a trademark before you first use it in commerce, but you have to actually be using it in order for registration to be granted and you have to keep using it for periodic renewal of the trademark registration. That is why Harmony Gold keeps producing what little merch it does even it doesn't sell well... they need to be able to demonstrate they're using the trademarks to renew them. Harmony Gold's main business is rental property management in SoCal, so they're in no risk of going out of business if Robotech goes belly-up. Film production and licensing is, for practical intents and purposes, more a hobby for them than anything. People who know about Frank Agrama's criminal history, of course, have very good reason to suspect that the "hobby" is more for the purposes of money laundering to facilitate tax evasion. At the end of the day, as long as Harmony Gold is gone from the picture and Robotech is finally laid to rest I'll be happy. Even if they have to buy out Harmony Gold's license and so on to do it.
  16. Seto Kaiba
    It wasn't always... you could fairly say they fell back into bad old habits once animated Robotech kicked up its heels and died for a second time. They first fell into the bad habit of letting any rando willing to cut them a check license Robotech a few years after Macek's brilliant direction steered Robotech II: the Sentinels and the Robotech: the Untold Story movie into their early and shallow graves. Nobody gave a toss about the property anymore, so they started licensing it to all comers in the name of making a quick buck and the only oversight they ever exercised was to cut licensees off when sales slipped to the point that they were no longer collecting a decent amount from royalties. When they tried to reinvent and relaunch the series as a serious anime property c.2000, they actually made a commendable effort to exercise proper oversight and quality control over what their licensees were putting out. They even went to the trouble of keeping previously-problematic licensees who'd once again obtained licenses (Palladium Books) on a short leash for a while there. It lasted about eleven years. Right around the time the trademark registration for the Shadow Chronicles sequel lapsed in late 2011, they gave up on overseeing licensees and the quality tanked. Past that point is when we started seeing pure garbage being churned out again like the Robotech/Voltron crossover comic, the RPG putting out a glorified monster manual and then a bad adaptation of the Imai Files, the totally-unmanaged Robotech RPG Tactics fiasco, etc. etc. Five'll get you twenty that they're the ones who insisted on having cameos by all the animated Robotech titles in the finale... to counter fan complaints that the comic was taking the piss out of "real" Robotech. Nobody VOLUNTARILY references Robotech 3000 unless it's to apologize for it. Even Carl Macek. So yeah, with the Robotech merchandising situation being what it is and the animated Robotech series and Robotech comics being dead in the water, this move to negotiate definitely feels like Harmony Gold is looking for the exit.
  17. Seto Kaiba
    I'm reliably informed they mainly use a legal document preparation service for that kind of thing.
  18. Seto Kaiba
    I love that they kept the Dom's big 80's shoulderpads.
  19. Seto Kaiba
    Can I just briefly say I love your screenname, @Rhubarbarian? All told, I think the main reason that Harmony Gold has started double-branding a lot of its merchandise and making the Macross logo increasingly prominent is because there just aren't enough Robotech fans left to sustain their merchandise lines otherwise. They're still trying to offload limited edition toys that were made over a decade ago, and they're not foolish enough to think the same few hundred fans are going to repeatedly spend thousands of dollars on gaudy, overpriced paperweights Kidslogic was making without winding up in trouble with the missus. They're trying to improve their sales by introducing a low-cost alternative to the admittedly expensive and difficult-to-obtain Macross toys from the bigger outfits like Bandai or Arcadia.
  20. Seto Kaiba
    Almost all of it, really. The Macross logo is now more prominent than the Robotech one on most of their merchandise. More a hackneyed attempt to Macross-ize Southern Cross to avoid using the wildly unpopular Southern Cross design works... resulting in something that looks like a really awful Macross fanfic.
  21. Seto Kaiba
    They have Harmony Gold over a barrel... this is not a situation where HG is going to increase its hold over Macross. It's far more likely that this is Harmony Gold seeing a golden opportunity to offload the a non-performing asset like Robotech on an interested buyer for a princely sum, or offering a sweetheart deal in which Robotech gets to continue limping towards oblivion at its own pace in exchange for getting out of Macross's way. It's probably a coincidence. Robotech has been on the ropes for quite a while now. With Big West applying pressure on them abroad, it was only a matter of time before Harmony Gold approached the owners of the Macross franchise to attempt to either save or sell the Robotech brand. "Remastering" a critically-panned flop of a game that was ranked by reviewers as one of the Most Disappointing games for its console was a bizarre move by any standard of measure.
  22. Seto Kaiba
    Very unlikely, given Big West's past reactions to Harmony Gold's attempts to increase their hold on Macross. The US will continue to be a mess because Big West doesn't have grounds to dispute the trademarks due to differences in trademark law. HG's appeal to the EU finding looks to be purely pro forma... they filed an appeal because you're supposed to exhaust the appeals process before giving up, not because they expect the result to actually change. What I suspect this is, is Harmony Gold playing for a conclusion to their long game. HG has little-to-no chance of saving anything on the appeal, so they're going to either attempt to let Big West buy out their Macross license and trademarks for a king's ransom and abandon Robotech, try to force a distribution agreement for the rest of Macross that would let them collect royalties on it in the US in exchange for abandoning their claims elsewhere and abandon Robotech, or attempt to push for a "we'll let you distribute Macross in the US provided you let Robotech continue to be a thing in markets where you took the trademark back". Given that HG has shown no real inclination to maintain the Robotech brand, I suspect HG is looking for an out that comes with a big payday. Granted, anything from Harmony Gold should be taken with a a small sea's worth of salt. There's a world of difference between the risks involved in, say, lying to fans about whether or not a particular project is still under active development and claiming to have rights under contract that you don't actually have. Since Robotech has no investors, there are no real consequences for making false statements about the status of productions because there are no securities involved. Lying about the status of contracts or contract negotiations? THAT can get you sued, especially if you claim to hold exclusive rights that belong to someone else. When it comes to their legal difficulties, Harmony Gold has mostly been reasonably accurate in what they say publicly. They do, however, tend to use deliberately unclear language in their announcements to disguise any details they might consider disadvantageous. Like the largely unqualified dismissal of the Big West v. Tatsunoko copyright review that they unwittingly started by stating flatly that it was strictly a Japanese matter and didn't affect their rights. (Which was true, but calculated to give fans the false impression that HG was free and clear to use Macross however it liked.) Or when they insisted on describing having acquired the merchandising rights to DYRL? to keep VF-1 toys out of the west as being able to "release [DYRL?] as a product", which gave fans the false impression they had the distribution rights too. That HG publicly stated in an official press release that they had renewed their license means they almost certainly have done so. That negotiations went on as long as they did and that they kept mum about it for so long suggests things didn't go well, it probably cost them some significant concessions (like abandoning the money they were owed from arbitration), and it potentially wasn't for as long as they'd hoped either.
  23. Seto Kaiba
    Unspecified. Neither Harmony Gold nor Tatsunoko has commented on the duration of their license extension.
  24. Seto Kaiba
    14 March 2021... approximately eleven days hence. In all fairness, there is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that suggests that senior management at Harmony Gold actually has a pretty realistic view of Robotech's standing in the industry and its (negligible) future prospects. They won't even fund new Robotech development anymore. They seem to be playing the long game in the hopes that they can either sell their stake in Robotech to a Hollywood studio for a king's ransom or at least frustrate Big West into paying them royalties for use of their trademarks in the US. Link(s)?
  25. Seto Kaiba
    I disagree with the assertion that later designs look simpler. The designs of the forearms and legs are a lot more complex on the Middle period Type I and II Bioroid and the Late period Type I and II are a lot more complex to draw with all that additional business going on on the chest and face. The middle Bioroid Type I and Type II are noticeably less bulky and more streamlined than the somewhat blobby and indistinct early Type I and Type II. It literally looks like it'd move faster than the early types. They've also moved the sensor blister to the center of the torso and added a redundant energy transfer conduit. The late Bioroid Type I and II picked up more human-like physique around the torso, possibly to further improve mobility, but also clearly are layering on thicker armor for better defense and moved some of their energy conduits underneath the armor for better defensive performance. (While the more angular sloped armor absolutely works for low-aspect fighting vehicles and is more an aesthetic choice for giant robots, it is a way to signal to viewers that a mecha was meant to be heavily armored.) All that said... the reality is that you can blame it on the designs the creators of Southern Cross were plagiarizing. The early model Bioroid Type I and Type II are pretty obviously ripping off the original Gundam's MS-06 Zaku II. The Type II is even painted green to further enhance the resemblance to the MS-06F Zaku II, though the Type II Custom used by Siefriet Weiss knocks it out of the park by being a fetching shade of Char Aznable red. The mid model Bioroid Type I and II seem to be the MS-07B Gouf equivalent, and the late model Bioroid Type I and Type II are pretty obviously modeled on the MS-09B Dom right down to the Type I having "inherited" the Dom's distinctive + shaped face.
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