kalvasflam

That would be nice.... I can't really think of any series that has anything close to this though, which is too bad. The sad part is though, BSG is not as likely to show this just because they don't have the force necessary to have this kind of battle. Heh heh, I'd love to see it though. Conversion into military types would not be a bad idea.... but then again, neither is the concept of having a long term plan that involves actual thought beyond let's find Earth and hope the Cylons get tired of hunting us down.

No, you don't understand, we're not saying Cain is the only part of society, we're saying she needs to be included, because she does add value. You tend not to see things from her point of view because it's just so easy to villify her. OMG, she killed civilians, she must be evil. (OMG, the U.S. dropped an A-bomb and killed civilians, they must be evil, OMG, the allies fire bombed Dresden and killed all those civilians, they must be evil) So, that's that. Yep, as it is, Cain is out of control, but that doesn't mean Adama and Roslyn are any less out of control with what they're doing.

Cain's personality is that of fighting a war, Deathhammer gave a better explanation on why her type is needed. Consider WWII, you had a guy like Patton, who if you look at it through the lens of modern media is a complete a-hole. But guess what, you sure need someone like that fighting your wars. This is why Cain is integral to society, she is the one doing the fighting, and seemingly a pretty good job of it to. As for feeding her war machine, you know what... in case you didn't notice, the cylons are still trying to kill them, so there is some necessity to feeding her war machine. There is still a war, whether or not Adama and company believes it. Cain is fighting that war, she is fighting from a limited point of view that she has to continue to try to kill the Cylons. What she lacks is proper direction on what the long term strategy should be. She does not have a larger picture in mind. (the one she gave to Starbuck is BS) You can say this because she didn't think about what happens in the long term after she is done stripping away all the parts and has no more supply source. But she definitely has her place, if she didn't, she wouldn't have gotten the admiral's rank in the first place. Roslyn and Adama (more Roslyn) is equally at fault, I don't think anywhere in the show has Roslyn tried to explain to Cain the plan, the fact that Cain doesn't accept Roslyn as a legitimate leader doesn't help much, but that's almost as much Roslyn's fault. Because you look at Roslyn the entire first season and most of second season, she is a religious nutjob. So, from Cain's point of view, you have an ex secretary of education running around playing president, and all she doesn't have a long term plan either, reads the ship logs and finds Adama and Roslyn has been at odds, and even Adama doesn't respect her. Not difficult to see why Cain pays no respect to Roslyn at all.

Hilter was on the Eastern Front WW1, so yah, he was kicking butt, and WW2, he used treaties and lightning-fast invasions to expand his empire, so who does that sound like? 359532[/snapback] Dumb blind luck. Yeah, thanks to his commanders, he did very well, but you know what, he still lost at the end didn't he? The little corporal might have been lucky at first, but by 1941, his strategy started sliding toward hope, and the incompetence of his enemies, which were primarily Russians. Some prime examples: He believed ol Herman about bombing the Brits to submission. Let's hope we can demoralize the Brits enough. He believed he was right in overruling his generals on the drive to Moscow, hey, I know better, let's change directions, go after Stalingrad. The 6th army, you'll hold out until I tell you, no retreat, no surrender.... oh... oops, that didn't work out. His strategies were based on folly and hope as the war progressed. Don't try to turn facts into political BS. Hitler was just easy to pick on because he is a recent example, and is full of easy mistakes. There are also examples with Imperial Japan, Napolean, Cornwall, the Kwarazam Shah, etc, etc. In the same vein, Adama and Roslin are out of their minds to only a certain extent, they are hoping that Earth can be found, hoping that Earth can help them against the Cylons, and worst of all, hoping that the Cylons will eventually get tired and leave them alone. Hope is a poor strategy. Deathhammer is absolutely right, you need both sets and Cain in a complete society, there are places for all of them. If BSG is supposed to in some way resemble reality, then it needs to show that fighting a war is a dirty business. It's not antiseptic nintendo crap you see on TV. Cain hasn't gone off her rockers, she is doing what she thinks is right, which is fighting a war against an overwhelming enemy. Doing what she can with what she's got.

I like this... moral superiority and fairness. I'm morally superior and fair, therefore I'm entitled to win a war. Funny stuff. Sure, the humans are "better" than Cylons, but let's see who has been kicking whose ass so far. Morally superior or winning.... hmmm, let's see what's more important. Again, let's base our strategy on hope, not real facts. Let's hope Earth can help us and is more technologically advanced. One colony is better than the original twelve. Let's hope the cylons don't follow us and wipe out Earth too. Boy, I'd love to be the military commander on the other side those who use hope as a strategy. I'd have fun kicking their ass all day long. Hey, you know, I know someone who was basing their strategy on hope, there was this little corporal by the name of Hitler, heard of him?

You mean Kat is going to undergo surgery? Yikes. I didn't think the fleet has the proper... uh.... equipment. Is old Doc Cottle that kind of surgeon too? As far as the right strategy question, like I pointed out earlier, neither Cain nor Adama/Roslyn have the right solution. They need to put in a long term objective at some point that's a bit more rational than "let's find Earth, and hope that the Cylons don't come after us again."

Adama and Roslyn wins? What did they win? A trip to Vegas? A five night stay at New York, New York? A swift kick in the ass? You misunderstand the obvious choices that are necessary in war. Cain has obviously taken on the belief that all measures are needed to win a war against an intractable enemy. History is replete with such examples. Is it the correct way to win? I don't think so. Cain is only narrowing her scope to the military, it isn't wrong, but it's not looking at the long term big picture. She is looking at the short term tactical solutions, which might work well in the near term, but will kill her in the long run. Adama and Roslyn has no semblence of planning at all. Their plan in a nutshell, run from Cylons, find Earth, and hope the Cylons don't come after us. If you think that's a workable plan for the long term big picture, that's just flawed. It's like saying: "I just got kicked in the balls, I'm going to go run and hide now, and hope that the same person isn't going to come after me and kick me in the balls again." If that's what you pass for a plan... fantastic, there are all kinds of ways that others can take advantage of you. And what is this "larger Galactica thesis," now I'm mildly curious.

Difficult? Ha, try impossible, which is why it seems so easy for everyone to dismiss Cain as a nutjob because she wants to keep fighting. But the 50K humans are only looking at one side of the picture. Very characteristic of short term thinking without the ability to look at the larger picture over a long time period. Sooner or later, the humans better think about how to kill all the Cylons. Because it's the same wishful thinking that the Cylons would leave them alone that got them into this mess in the first place. If these humans place the vain hope that the Cylons will consider themselves to be so powerful that they'll eventually ignore the humans, then they are doomed. Hope is not a military strategy or a realistic option. Realistic to retreat for now, definitely a correct course, but in due time (it might be centuries given what's happened), they need to think about going after the cylons and wiping them out. The issue with Adama and Roslyn is that as leaders they aren't looking at the long term. No hint of that at all. Their plan to get to Earth is a good start. But if the Cylons follow them there, then they're screwed. They need to think about how to find Earth without having the Cylons following them, and they need to think about how to build up Earth while in hiding and eventually get the Cylons later, even if it take centuries. But there is no evidence they're thinking along those lines. Hence, if Cain is a nutjob with a flawed concept, then Adama and Roslyn doesn't seem much better. The Kobolt experience should've taught them something, namely that the Cylons are relentless.

Saving their life is one thing, it's believable. But the problem is as a society, the idiot humans are doomed if they don't get it through their head at one point that the Cylons won't stop until they're all dead. That's the whole point behind flight, run away and hope the Cylons can't find us. It's the same failure to learn the lessons of the colonies where they all died because they kept wanting peace with the Cylons. There is some sense to it, run away long enough to get strong and come back and fight. Cain is right after a fashion, survival lies in the destruction of the Cylons. The problem is she is unrealistic as to the timing from this. They need a real force if they have a chance to go after the Cylons, which is why the civies are important and couldn't be sacrificed needlessly. Ha ha, they needed to have looked at the Cylon situation like a game of age of empires. Plan: - flush out all cylon agents in fleet. - split off Galatica and part of civvie fleet (ideally minimally populated with worst ships around) and have them lead the Cylons on a merry chase. Prolong the chase, and give Galactica nukes to take down as many Cylons as possible. - Have Pegasus and the rest of the ships set up a base of operation, rebuild, even if it takes forever. - Then start attacking Cylons again when the time is ready. Take the colonies. - Then find Cylon homeworld, and destroy it. See, easy, like a game of Age of Empires.

I agree with Wolf about Six. Because Helfer as you see her is just as sexy, but she is stereotyped into that model role on Galactica. But I think it's very deliberate in that you get the message that evil can come in very pretty packages some times. Lots of religious overtones if you use Adam and Eve analogy for Six and Baltar. Going beyond the sexiness of Helfer, we move to the conflict between Cain and Roslyn/Adama. It is fundamentally a difference of opinion. Whereas Cain might actually see hope (however unrealistic) of beating the Cylons and retaking their homes, Roslyn/Adama thinks of themselves from that loser perspective. (i.e. we've lost, let's run away and hope the other guys don't come after us) It's realistic given the military situation but absolutely defeatist, because it is based on a hope (completely false) that the Cylons will eventually lose interest. The biggest rub is who is right. You can argue both sides of the story. Cain is not "mental" because she wants to go back to take the colonies. Her biggest problem is her inability to face the reality that the colonies are lost and her enemies are insurmontable at the moment. But she is a typical aggressive commander, and in her view, she doesn't want to admit defeat, if it takes stripping supply ships and knocking off a few annoying civvies to supply her war effort, so be it, it's war, and the enemy is intractable. (There are ample precedents of this type of actions in war, even if people in the U.S. think these type of military actions are barbaric, it's more the norm throughout most of human history than the exception) In Cain's defense, she is taking this step that is for her absolutely necessary to ensure victory. On the flip side, I see Adama/Roslyn as the realists, but set up in a way that is a bit disturbing. Their view, and rightly justified is how will the human race survive, for them there is no such thing as a victory against the Cylons. Survival is the same thing as victory for them. But as leaders, they can be criticized for focusing on the short term and not even thinking about the long term. Which eventually is to wipe the Cylons as a race out of existence. It may not even happen in their grand children's lifetime, but it's a necessity. They fundamentally ignored the lessons that the Cylons taught them, which is there can be no peace with an enemy like the Cylons. Their predecessors stopped the war in a vain hope to make peace with the Cylons, and the result is they got a genocide for their efforts. The opening monologue said as much, the colonies weren't going on a war. By running away, they (Roslyn/Adama) are hoping to be able to run far enough so that the Cylons won't be able to track them down. Fundamentally, it's like standing up to a bully, but picking the right time to do it. So far, Adama/Roslyn solution is to run away and hope the bully lose interest. Cain's solution is to immediately hit back when they aren't ready. Both sets are wrong. Worst of all, Rosyln still doesn't quite see this as a war that humans eventually must win. (note there isn't a particular instance where I think she treats the fleet like a nation at war, she treats it like her personal fifedom that she has to save and just squirrel away somewhere)

Well, it's like myk said, if you were Baltar, sitting there in your robes in your condo on the lake, and you had six in bed "covered" by that tiny little sheet, you'd examine before giving the boot... examine very seriously that is.

Ha ha ha ha, you mean the battlestar Loveboat? I don't mind the romance stuff, but more cylons, more death, and more naked Six please... yeah. naked Six *DROOLS*

What an interesting episode. I liked Roslyn in this episode, her first private words with Adama, "we have to kill her." It was nice and direct. It is very nice, because even as she is dying, the character has taken on some steel during her short term as president. All I know about Cain is that when she is done, I'm going to miss her. She might be a bitch, but damn, she is pretty decisive. Starbuck gets CAG, Adama dies, all of it showed a decisive leader. Her methods were cold and quite brutal. In my reading of military leaders, Genghis Khan comes to mind in terms of what she has done. Distasteful, but she is more than willing to do these things to get her job done. In all fairness to her, she is following her training rigidly and not adapting to civilians... to her, there is an enemy, she'll kill them, but will not think one bit of what happens after the war ends. To her, the war can be won. Something that Adama and Roslyn do not believe at all. I can't wait for next week's episode. One question I had, when did the Blackbird acquire FTL drive?

FMA was a good series, watched through the whole thing, and it was a pretty well written storyline. I think the end was a bit too rushed, but in terms of story telling, it was far better than most. I can't wait for the movie to come out at some point. It was released in the summer at Japan, and from the little I read, it really puts a closure to the series. The only part that was a bit annoying was the fact that Mustang and his crew never did encounter the Homonculus all that much with exception of the final fight against Pride.

You mean with Empress Lacus ascend to her throne while her apprentices (the moronic Kira and the confused Athrun) both standing behind her... Yes, evil can come in all manner of shapes and sizes, and the most evil are usually the most cute.

So, they are starting up Seed 3, having seen episode 51, I think the start of Seed 3 should go something like this. Antagonist: Saburo Fuchida: Newtype human pilot (age 26) Minoru Sakai: Coordinator pilot (age 35) Raizo Tanaka: Human captain (age 43) of Musashi (follow-on battleship class to AA) Isoroku Genda: Human newtype (age 58) the chief antagonist. (Yes, for anyone who follows WWII, I’ve been mixing and matching names of some of the best Japanese military had to offer from that era, with exception of Tanaka, who in my opinion is good enough that he deserves to have his name unblended) Episode I: Year is CE76, Cagalli arrives at PLANT on the AA, he meets with Lacus for another peace conference. They talk about the dismantling of the situation on Earth and how things haven’t turned out the way they wanted two years after the last war. Athrun and Kira are there jabbering on with each other. A usual bunch of crap about peace and love and all that BS, and the usual Athrun/Kira bitch about how people of Earth are not following the ideal of their lovely goddess Lacus. There is talk about sending down the DOMs along with a large crew of ZAFT troops to help enforce the peace. They talk about how Shinn is already on Earth at Carpenteria trying to "help." While Andy pays a visit to Mwu and Murrue aboard the AA. Elsewhere, a small fleet of 15 ships approaches the PLANTs. They are immediately detected. Yzak and Deakka goes out to identify the incoming ships. The ships come closer, they look like old EA class MS carriers, and the scout team of ZAKUs that fly near the ships are shot down. And the ships start launching Windams. Yzak orders and immediate sortie and calls PLANT for help. The lead Windam is piloted by Sakai, and he tells his fellow pilots to make a good show of it and kill as many ZAKUs as they can. Kira and Athrun hears Yzak calling, and they out along with the DOM trio and a supporting cast of Goufs and ZAKUs. Meanwhile the fight doesn't go well for Yzak and his crew. The mobile suits they're fighting are being well led, and even though Yzak and Deakka are managing not to get killed, the same can't be said about those under their command. Yzak shouts some obscenities as the EA ships launch a second wave, Windams carrying nukes. AA and crew are sortied along with a lot of ZAFT troops because thankfully those Windams launched from very far out. Thanks to the efforts of their escorts, they manage to bypass Yzak and Deakka. Sakai continues to blast their way through ZAFT troops although they're suffering losses. Then, the Windams get in range, and launch their nukes at the PLANTs. ZAFT forces can't get them all because they're busy with the Windam's escorts. The fleet of 15 now launches another wave of nuclear armed windams. Just as the nukes are about to hit the PLANT, here comes the METEOR beam spams, and every one of the nukes are blown up, and here comes Kira and Athrun to save the day. End of episode one. Episode two: Kira and Athrun now starts to move in and hit the nuke armed Windams. They dispatch the DOM trio and a lot of the other ZAFT troops to go help Yzak, and to deal with Sakai and his Windams. But Sakai is too good, Yzak and Deakka goes against him, and they are killed in rapid and gory succession. The DOM trio and the other ZAFT forces fight evenly against the other Windams, but Sakai is moving quickly in to escort the second wave of nuke armed Windams. Kira does the usual DRAGOON beam spam, and kills most of the nuke Windams. But now they have to fight the Sakai. Sakai’s MS isn’t anything special, just a normal colored Windam, but he dodges the shots from Kira and friends. While he doesn’t seem to be able to get at Kira or Athrun with his puny beam rifles, he is holding his own, and killing a Gouf here, or a ZAKU there. Elsewhere, Lacus and Cagalli orders the Eternal to move out in support, and they lament on how people just don't understand, and want to keep fighting. Eternal moves out with several other ZAFT ships while AA gets ready to launch Now we switch view to the Musashi, and it’s obvious most of ZAFT forces that are alerted are trying to kill the remaining nuclear Windams. Raizo Tanaka smiles and says: “Children should be in school learning, not leading nations and fighting wars. And adults led by children deserve what they get.†He then orders phase 2 to begin. Simultaneously on Eternal and AA, they start to detect small numbers of Windams coming in from every direction, they all seem to be nuclear armed. Although there are less than 50, they are spread out all over the place. They call out to Kira and Athrun to have them return. Episode 3: Quick recap, Kira and Athrun now start to split up, Athrun continues to fight Sakai who is escorting the last couple of nuclear armed Windams in, and Kira charges toward the newly detected nuclear Windams. Mwu and company are shouting for Murasames and Zakus to launch so they can intercept the nuclear armed Windams. Mwu launches in Akatsuki. Meaning, on board Musashi, Tanaka calls Fuchida and tells him it’s time to launch, and orders the other ships in his squadron to start attacking their assigned targets. Then he orders his own ship to attack the ZAFT military headquarters. Fuchida is riding in a black gundam, it too had a mirage colloid, so it cloaks right before it launches. (We’ll call this one Silence Gundam, it carries two anti ship swords, two beam sabers (hidden in the fold of the arms, think Sazabi), a chest cannon like SF, two head vulcans, and under each arm is a large cannon that shoots armor piercing rounds… think ALEX from 0080) Meanwhile, Musashi is right next to ZAFT military HQ and its main base. It launches several nukes at each target from very close. ZAFT has no time to react, and kaboom goes ZAFT military HQ. Musashi continues to attack close by target with nuclear weapons, while six other cloaked ships (think 250 m types but different designs) attack Eternal and their complement of warships. Fuchida follows in the attack with his black gundam. He is forced to decloak before striking, as he kills several Zakus and Goufs, but Mwu senses Fuchida and comes charging in to save the Eternal. The six smaller ships are able to destroy most of the ZAFT ships near Eternal, but are unable to touch the Eternal due to the fanatical dedication of Eternal’s escorts. Mwu and Fuchida duel, but clearly Fuchida is winning as he easily dodges Mwu’s DRAGOONs, and Mwu knows he is in trouble. He calls Kira to help. Kira makes a tough choice, he can’t stop all the nuked armed Windams because in reality, METEOR just flies too slowly to be able to get to all of those ships in time. And he wants to save Lacus, so he heads to Eternal. The fight between Mwu and Fucida is drawn out compared to the other fights, but Fuchida is better, and in the end he skewers Mwu. We have a gory image of anti-ship beam sword slicing Mwu in half. The Musashi meanwhile is being attacked by AA, but because it remains cloaked, the AA is having a difficult time finding it. Tanaka smiles, and orders Musashi to continue firing a few nukes at a time against the PLANTs, so far, Musashi with its nukes has accounted for ZAFT military HQ, the Gondwana, and a couple of PLANTs as well. AA tries to intercept some of the nukes and is only somewhat successful. Meanwhile, Fuchida after dispatching Mwu is attacking Eternal. He gets in close and aims a beam rifle he picked up from Mwu at Eternal’s bridge, and then a beam comes in and destroys his beam rifle. Kira has arrived on scene. End episode 3. Episode 4. Quick recap, Kira and Fuchida square off, while Sakai and Athrun face one another. Both Kira and Athruns goes seed mode. ZAFT military is responding very slowly after their HQ and some of their forces are destroyed, most are trying to hunt down the cloaked Musashi or trying to stop the nuclear Windams. Here we’ll get extended scenes of Kira dueling with Fuchida, and Sakai fighting Athrun. In due time, both the METEORs are destroyed. Sakai fights a great battle, and he ends up crippling Justice (cut off both arms and the head), and then he laughs at Athrun on an open channel telling him how he had so many chances to put things right, that this is his reward for screwing it up. But before he can conduct the finishing blow, the DOM trio comes in to help Athrun. In the interim, Fuchida is dodging all of Kira’s DRAGOON beam spam, he shoots down all of the DRAGOONs over time. Finally, he charges in against Kira with his anti-ship sword, he swings it, but Kira catches it overhead like he did with Shinn, but Fuchida lets the sword go, ejects the beam sabers hidden under his arms, and slices off Freedom’s arms. Then he fires his chest cannon and wrecks Freedom’s chest beam cannon. He uses his second anti-ship sword and carves up Freedom. He then responds to Kira after ignoring him all this time. Saying that Kira is a mistake that needs to disappear from the world, but in case he is wondering, he isn’t Rau. He drags SF and charges Eternal with it, using SF as a shield. Lacus doesn’t want to fire. Fuchida opens his channel and tell Lacus to look around, and see the PLANTs, most of them have been nuked. Lacus gets in Seed mode, and orders Eternal to fire on Fuchida. Meanwhile, Sakai is fighting the three DOMs, and he kills them all over a span of a few minutes. But from behind, Athrun charges in, and uses his leg beam saber, Sakai is unable to avoid it, and both the legs on his Windam are cut off, but not before he puts his beam saber into Athrun, killing him. The Windam now useless, but Sakai is out of enemies, so he opens the cockpit on the Windam and waits. Fuchida dodges the shot from Eternal, and then gets in front of the bridge again, he uses his arm cannon and says over the radio (scene from Dodgeball): Joanie loves Chachi… and blows away Lacus and Cagalli and the Eternal bridge. Kira watches and is enraged, but can’t do anything because SF is crippled, he starts to overload the SF, but for some reason sets a timer. Fuchida feels this, and he laughs, saying that it’s good that Kira is willing to die to take down and enemy. He plants SF on the wrecked bridge of Eternal, and says that Kira should die with Lacus and his sister, and that he should be proud that from his ashes, the nation of Yamato will be born. Fuchida then leaves, the SF goes nuclear, and destroys Eternal. The AA meanwhile sees this, but cannot help as the six cloaked 250 m are coming in to help Musashi, even though she hates the idea, Murrue orders AA to disengage. Musashi cannot catch up, but it doesn’t matter. Most of the PLANTs have been destroyed by nuclear armed Windams. Now Tanaka orders the Windams to return and reload, while he and his ships wipe out the remaining ZAFT forces. Fuchida reports that Eternal has been destroyed and that he will pick up Sakai. Tanaka smiles and calls Genda, and tells him that his mission is successful, and the PLANT has been destroyed. Genda tells him that he’s done good work, and the main obstacle to their nation of Yamato has been removed. He pushes a button, and we see Orb getting nuked. The next shot says 4 years later, and we focus in on a desert road on Earth somewhere. Episode 4 ends. So, this is my idea of how seed 3 ought to begin. Whew… what a long post.

It's harder to compare the aftermath of Munich with Blackhawk Down. With Blackhawk Down, the movie was in fact rife with inaccuracies, you would think why would they send in two snipers just to save a pilot, the numbers don't add up. But in real life, all four of the crew survived. The characters were in the wrong places, and the Delta guys were a mishmash of people. With all the information they had in real life, the movie was still wrong. Imagine, how much more fictitious the events after Munich would've been since the Israelis aren't the most talkative, and the other side are all dead. But even after saying that, I will watch the movie, no movie will ever be as compelling as real life, it should be fun to watch though. Just like Blackhawk Down was fun to watch.

Hmmm, a lot of nice flak going on here. Moving into the movie, my understanding is that it's a fiction of what happened in reality. In terms of the terrorist and other stuff.... my two cents: How wonderful, it's society's fault that we have serial rapists, mass murderers, or "freedom fighters" I agree that they might be sane and even think there is good justification for what they do. But then, you could come up with a good reason to convince little kiddies to strap on some plastic and blow up other little kiddies in their neighborhood. Why? Because the person involved thinks there is no other way to solve his problem. It's wonderful to understand your enemy, but in the end, it works just as well if they're simply all dead.

From what little I saw of the spoilers, this seems like the same crappy story with redone animation, and toss in a few pieces of extras. I'm sorry, it would've been better if the ending is like Anubis suggested... death to Kira, Lacus, Athrun, and if we can manage it, Cagalli too. I'll have to see the thing, but it sounds like they're still pumping up Kira, Lacus and company. And that is sad.

Heh, only if they start off with Kira, Lacus, Athrun, and Cagalli dying horribly. I'd like to see Athrun's head cut off, Lacus being blown apart, etc, etc, etc. Then, we have a massive holocaust of PLANTs. Blowing 90% of the hourglasses away would be nice. Heh heh. No new gundams, no Freedom, no Justice, no Destiny, only Impulse, and definitely no new Gundams.

AC-130U had the 20mms replace with a single 25mm rotary cannon. 353344[/snapback] Well, it's not as if they had less ammo all of a sudden. I believe the gunship was originally developed to take on the Ho Chi Minh trail, but it obviously has other uses, one thing I can think of is to use it against unarmored infantry that does not have the necessary anti-air capabilities. Places like Mogadishu would've been perfect, and I believe AC-130s have been quite instrumental over both Afghanistan and Iraq once SEAD had been completed.

Wonder if they could redeem some of GSD.

AC-130 do have the FCS to precision snipe at any target unfortunate enough to draw it's ire, since Vietnam. Mog like ODS and OIF, the AC crews would've needed precise coordinates on where the friendlies are and the targets are. 353174[/snapback] Sniping is not that easy, granted, the AC-130 is better at it than a plane dropping PGMs, I still would not want to be in the vicinity when a shell from an 130 hit. It'll cause collateral. In Mog, the AC crew would've have exact coordinates I think. Because the little birds that provided airsupport had pretty good comms to the ground troops who gave them targeting information. But in case of Durant's chopper, no info would've been needed, just plaster the entire area around the chopper. I mean, literally, if it moved, it died. And don't send in the two Deltas until that part was done. Speaking of YF-23, didn't they move the one out of Wright Patterson? Hope they're turning it into something.

Imagine how they would do a movie on naval surface battles in modern times with SSM (surface to surface missiles). Not even a confined space like submarines to add to tension. How sad.

Ah, thanks, I see, ok, it says after initial support. The October incident happened toward the end of the U.S. involvement. Most of the heavier firepower were pulled out after the first few months there, I think that started in late 1992. No AC-130 were in Somolia at the time when the "incident" occurred, if they were there, general Garrison would've been grossly negligent in not using one to cut a swath through those pathetic militia.