1/1 LowViz Lurker

The same reasons why an f14 is not the same as a vf1. OT made vast advancement in robotics and controls that allowed the humans to create giant walking robots that have features that weren't there before. SWAG armor, planes that could crash straight into concrete bridges without killing the pilot because the armor was so strong, strafing and runnning manuevers as if the valks were giant people, pinpoint barriers that can slice through armour, precision flying manuevers allowing people to dodge groups of missiles with ease etc.. In real life there is no SWAG, no aliens with beam weapons, no giant robots, but by entering into a debate about mechs you have to consider that aliens that built them have had thouasands of years to perfect this stuff, making thier machines superior to the controls we have today. Possibly solving the problems we have like the way we still see sci fi movies with hovercars and antigravity but are never told how this stuff works. We just have to accept it. Maybe Sci-fi authors gather that from UFO sightings of craft doing manuevers that are physcially impossible to perform with our fighter jets, (ufos are reffered to as foo fighters in WWII) they make the logical connection that the aliens had some ability to alter the gravity to perform them, and access to materials so strong that it would not stress the machine and fall apart if we humans ever tried it. UFOs dart about instantaneously that no pilot should be able to live unless the problems was solved somehow. (maybe its controlled remotely and there is no pilot come to think of it) Ok so why not make an OT-enhanced tank?: I say it might be costs - valkyries might have been so successful that they could easily fullfill the roles that a OT-enhanced tank or an OT-enhanced destroid would, so why bother? to me a gerwalk could outmanuever a tank and strafe sideways, and if it is out numbered it just has to fly away.

Well they could have a hybrid design destroid: have legs with treads. If it gets dangerous it crawls on the ground and crouches down while rolling. The hybrid mode would be the GERWALK, the tank mode would be the fighter mode, and the fully robot mode would be Battroid. In space maybe the enemies are NOT firing from the ground and are looking down from above 90% of the time, making the tanks even more vulnerable than a destroid because more of its body is exposed. Also keep in mind that regult and glaug can jump into the air and see targets from a height. The angle of the shot is changed just from this ability. Why roll up and down hills when you can leap? The zentradi fighting tactics may be different from our own. Thier greater numbers and size means close combat would be thier specialty and may attack in herds. As a result, maybe UN spacy got scared and made robots the main fighting force while leaving the more conventional ground vehicles like tanks on earth? It doesn't mean the tanks are useless, just that all the technology and funding went to the UN spacy and to the use of robots because of what we knew about giants. They would have been more of a threat to us than humans using conventional weaponry. Meanwhile Valks could do all the rest. Remember though that these were kept secret so we would never get a chance to see humans vs humans using combinations of conventional weapons and alien ones. All the previous wars would have been fought using the conventional ones like tanks. If you can't have a machine that adapts to all environments (even space) what's the point? It means you have to bring extra assistance and this wastes time and resources. So transformable robots became the new thing that made groups of specialised vehicles obsolete. If they show some sort of vehicle like a transformable tank than this would end the need for destroids, but I think it might be a cost thing: if you already have valks why even bother with tanks when most of your time is floating in space exposed from every angle with limited cover?

Hoo boy here we go again. We shouldn't make assumptions about the usefulness of tanks in macross just based on what we saw in the original. Tanks existed in macross like they do today in the real world. They are not portrayd as useless, just that we don't see them very much, similar to how we didn't see much of the octos but now that macross zero is here we know the humans also had transformable sea vehicles. Which is why I asked the question of why they didn't have transformable tanks. As I mentioned tanks might not be as usefull in space as opposed to a vehicle piloted by a single guy with limbs. At least with a spartan you could help with construction. And please don't just say: "well we can give them limbs like the destroids so they can pick themselves up off the ground or if they fall on thier side" because then they would cease being tanks. A tank needs more than 1 guy. A robot doesn't, which you could assume is easier to use, has more than 1 use (hands to pick up objects) and may not have much luxury to shoot from afar because of the zentradis tactics of flooding them in superior numbers and getting up close. What they were used mostly for in the series was as extra defense that could change positions so mobility wasn't as crucual a thing. (Think of fixed guns but with legs) I think the argument about range is a moot point since you could just say the destroids could be outfitted with treads like the gun tanks in gundam and given all the features of the rgular tanks. (have you seen the movie terminator? the robots had treads just like the UGV we use now) Then where would the argument go? Would the gun tanks be classified as robots, or would they be tanks with the OT abilities? Would they be usefull in a close combat urban situations where there are many hiding places in a confined space? I don't think so. Treads can offer speed and that is great in open spaces, but so can a ferrari in a traffic jam. But is that ferrari as agile as say, a guy on a bike with another drone carrying antitank weapons? I think the ride armor in mospeada would be the ultimate tank and mech killers since it means you can hide and still have the ability to kill the more heavy vehicles. In a combat situation there may be obstructions like walls and other things that get in the way. Perhaps a mech can see above those walls and shoot from a heightened postion? You got to think of all situations as well as what the machines might be primarily designed for. Because to assume tanks don't exist in macross and were superceded by destroids is silly. There is no limit on what the human could use in macross in relation to what we use today. The fighting methods of the zentradi favoured vehicles which would jump around like grasshoppers and hover in the air. Maybe a destroid has an easier time shooting them down with it's height because the pilot is both gunner and driver? Exactly! So why are we even having the argument of Tanks vs mechs when in the macross world you could complement any vehicle type with any robot type? You must have automatically assumed that we all thought destorids were invincible and they would just go out there to fight the tanks on thier own and not have valkyires taking out the obstacles first. Some are useful for some task, and other useful for other tasks. Macross has both of them along with bikes, trains, anti-gravity hover vehicles, giant alien infantry, beams that can slice through any tank armor, gravity mines etc No single vehicle by itself is perfect, including tanks fighting by themselves or destroids which to me are just fixed guns with legs to enable more firing positions based on limited resources to have the guns placed all over the ship.

That's interesting because if we ARE part protoculture, and Sara failed her test, then it explains something about humans and protoculutre: no one is perfect. Not even the "chosen ones". People do things they are forbidden from doing because it is enticing. Like Eve who ate the forbidden apple bringing the downfall of man to create fallen humans today who still fight and murder, and steal. Exedol mentions that you can think of the protdevlin as satan. Maybe the scientists, accidentlly opened a gateway to hell in tapping into energies from this other dimension and these "Kadun" still exist in all humans who want to wage wars? (taking the form as evil black shapelings called "kadun" that are invisible to those without certain spiritual powers?) Remember even though the purpose of un was to bring peace, it's real purpose was so all the nations could benefit from whatever technology the ship had, in order to make them all even more powerful and boost military strength - but the tech was not really shared was it?. The motivation for working together was not peace and an end to war, but greed to advancee thier weapons and power instead of just using it only for the good of all. Why else would the anti-un want to steal the technology for themselves? People are still repeating the mistakes of the PC all the time because humans aren't "perfect". That includes UN soldiers who raped that chic and may have killed innocent civilians, making her want revenge and bringing an endless cycle of bloodshed. Militaries have a fascination with being able to access technologies that will enable them to have an advantage over everyone else so they can control them. And if they can keep it all a secret (lets just say free energy systems as an example) so that the power serves them or a select elite group, then they will. No different than from ancient times when some warriors had known the "riddle of steel" (technology from the ancient mythical atlantean giants who possibly built our ancient monuments) and began to make steel weapons like in the Conan movie to take control over others. Of course the giants were savage warriors so it was no surprise they challenged and fought each other, but when they died out, slain and were bred out of existance, the once-innocent humans inherited the lost technology (the knowledge of the weapons - alchemy, art, science which made us superior in military power etc) and we started to behave like them and repeat thier violence, just on a more microcosmic scale. I think that when all of nature was in danger of being replaced by military weapons, it was a kind of poetic justice that technology itself (in the form of the judgemental bird mech) would be used to kill off the human race since it would not have made much difference to let the humans live if so many were going to suffer in endless war anyway.

That's disgusting. I understand now what she Sara was warning about when lecturing mao about the cursed urban kadun. jk. Not if the government has religious or ethical reasons for not going down certain areas, (for example cloning humans to make frankenstien soldiers - half animal half human hybrid mutants. I doubt many voters would support this.) and also whether you are able to make money off it. I'm sure if people could make money into a serious study of ghosts and spirits, bottle them up, patent them, and sell them, they would. But I doubt there is money to be made from it or that the ghosts themselves are willing to co-operate to make people rich.. I admit all my posts are just my own personal speculation and I'm trying to connect the dots, but this wouldn't have been necessary if the ending to macross zero was not so mysterious. I like to think the antigrav was helping to push rocks up in the air, but sorry: Sara dabbles into magic, is SEEN creating an energy shield around her, demonstrates proecognition (where she sees the valk coming before it happens) and also survives a huge drop that would have killed both her and shin if she didn't use some limited levitation ability. We should just be grateful that after macross 7 started to bring magic into the story over the sci-fi, that macross zero put some more balance into it (treated the technology and its use like an xfile where scientists are using it but still can't explain everything) instead of leaving us to guess. I find that when the floating carriers liftd up into the air, it made total sense that this could be attributed to the reverse-engineered OT from ASS1. But the other stuff in macros 7 was more vague imo. (ie basara being the only one who sings that has magic effect on people, while everyone else fails. Could basra be a descendant of the islanders who have a bit of the PC "magic gene"?? Could he then mate with one of max's daughters and then in another series of macross, max's own descendants have not just uber reflexes and piloting ability because they are related to milia and max, but also magic abilities from song?)

Tanks and destroid are probably still vulnerable to those little anti-tank people. You guys all saw what the little ewoks could achieve in star wars did you not? But destroids only require 1 guy manning them. (apart from the monster) They are more like suits which fit the profile of the human and maybe this was important to matching the soldier-to-soldier close combat ability, over the vehicle-to-vehicle long range combat that un spacy wanted? A zentradi soldier which lies down on the ground is a harder target to hit if you aren't standing high. A robot might even have a better angle to shoot from by being upright and seeing from a slightly higher vantage point. If it wanted to have a low profile, just kneel. Now imagine if the enemy had snipers with giant bullets that pierce the armor, (a giant man holding a gunpod with long range scope? And don't say that the zentradi couldn't have stolen our technology to use agaisnt us: in war you must consider all situations) and thier own anti-tank soldiers? Heck if the zentradi wanted to: they could micronise thier soldiers to make them smaller targets. But I'm sure tanks were still being used. In fact we see a tank get blown apart when the zentradi destroy the earth. It's probably that un spacy being primarily focused on air and space, and scared about encountering giant men, needed to focus more on robots in case a rush of zentradi overtook thier front line. A tank that does not fall flat on its tread in frictionless space or in enviroments where there is not much gravity would be helpless compared to a robot. Space fighting may have necessitated that each pilot was independant of others' assistance and that it's own limbs would be an aid in many situations like when the artificial gravity failed in DYRL. I can totally imagine the hands of the spartan being used to help with cleanup here. Pick up vehicles that were upside down and placing them neatly the right-side up again. I often wonder why the un don't just make transformable tanks? A destroid that can transform from a tank into a robot. We have seen a transforming sub. (the octos) And why did they get rid of the limited flying ability (seen in mac zero) of the destroid? I thought that would have been helpful to keep in SW I. Did they run out of funding from all the valkyries they made and decided to take a cheaper alternative with the other destroids? From now on, I would like to see more transforming ground vehicles from macross. Alright, bring on the macross remake!

Shin ascending into heaven of his own power suggests that part of the science is from some other dimension humans are yet to understand properly. Does it really matter that we completely understand how aliens' technology, (and thier minds) not ours, works? To me it would all be kept an underground top secret thing anyway. Like the godlike character in Akira who singlehandedly uses telekinetic powers to go on a rampage, I can just put it down to this: PC studied themselves, or more evolved versions of themselves in some lab, created aritificial "organs" to do the tasks they could do naturally (like lift objects with the mind for example) and this became part of the technology in the ASS1 that we humans copied. Think of it as like UFO technology being reversed engineered, they do not necessarily act the same way a conventional "engine" would - maybe the organs simulate what the mind does, and the pilot thinks about where he/she wants to go with brainwaves or emotions that trigger mechanically the weapon systems associated with those thoughts. Birdman mech didn't have any physical controls to be seen so it must be brainwaves or something else more metaphysical. Sara, being a shaman has techniques to awaken these dormant powers but there is also something spiritual involved (that is they tap into beings from other dimensions) that allows a limited form of levitation. The result being an antigrav field is generated around thier body. Just as she can use her singing to heal, and make plants grow, so too can she telekinetically lift objects; including herself, off the ground with the mind, and levitate. I can totally see the PC now as not just being technologically advanced, but spiritually advanced. Remember: the whole theme of macross 7 is this battle against beings who steal people's life force so I'm thinking "anything goes". How could the PC have defeated the Protodevlin if they didn't first study what these mysterious creatures were before containing them like in the ghostbusters? There is no turning back from the "magic" that was brought in since macross 7 was done. To me fantasy and myth have a place in sci-fi as much as technology. If the theme of the original macross was that we inherited our "knowledge" from aliens, and these aliens became the "mythological beings" that visited ancient humans and gave them warnings about the future from ancient writings on end-time prophecies if certain rules were borken, ...then yeah, it still fits neatly into the sci-fi half, as long as it was intended as part of the story all along. I find it makes more sense when you think of the PC as being able to create "monsters" with thier crazy experiments to be used as bioweapons for space (Britai being a superior specimen in GE, could survive in space for a short time, so the PC scientists may have advanced this a bit to make creatures resistant to ANY hostile enviroment: space being the last environment where no living organism could survive in by itself) that weren't just physically powerful, but also tapped into all the supernatural powers like levitation, teleportation, possession of other bodies, creating DBZ-style enegy force fields, using thier telekinetic powers to lift cars off the ground and throw them around like projectiles, along with other general areas of mind improvement like increased intelligence etc This is why it seems so wierd: the PC were way ahead of humans that to us primitives (who have only copied a fraction of this culture's technology), thier monster soldiers would have had godlike powers that we just don't have time to understand using whatever human models we have. (invisible little black shapelings called "kaduns" don't exist to us afterall) It almost links up with Exedol's strange reaction to Kaifun's kung fu movie in SDF:macross where the zentradi thought that what they were seeing was combat footage of legendary warriors with these legendary godlike or demi-godlike powers. (ie DBZ-style zapping with the finger) The humans didn't know there were really beings with these powers out there, and the zentradi didn't know they were looking at a movie designed for human entertainment. But macross Zero proves that some real people on earth actually did demonstrate something of the kind (healing plants) that perhaps Global and the others were unaware of due to the usual government secrecy of events. (until some higher-up whispered this into his ear upon hearing about this mysterious "protoculture" thing the zentradi were so fascinated with and were trying to find answers off us for, who kept accusing us of hiding the answer as a military secret when in fact we didn't really know WTF they were on about)

It's the general idea that this series was much more lighthearted, upbeat, optimistic, and humourous while to me the original was much more meloncholy, more violent, more dramatic, and much more serious. (a good analogy is to compare something dark like the first Lethal Weapon movie, where the main character is a crazy violent guy who has lost his wife and struggles with this loss, and who the audience can feel sorry for, who by the last movie is used only for comic relief and jokes and there is no more drama left from the original.) In the original tv series, characters had conflicts and were torn between thier duty, love, and their loyaty to thier relations. They go on a roller coaster ride of feelings and emotions and evolve and grow stronger throughout the series so that by the end of it all, you feel like you've grown with them. You might actualy care what happens to them after space war I and are disapointed that they are just killed off. Take a character like Kamjin who was part mad, very ambitious, willing to kill people. A scary person, but also very real. Even though it IS fiction you feel this guy is cold and evil and will backstab whoever gets in the way to further his goal and it provides a great element of danger whenever he plots each episode on how to kill humans. Compare that to protodevlin who just didn't provide a tone of actual fear throughout the show and were not captivating enough to me as an audience member. In the end they were not even evil and seemed more like something I would expect from a "ghostbusters" movie. I don't mind metaphysical ideas in anime (I didn't mind macross zero because it was presented nicely) just that characters in a series need to match the quality of the ones we saw in the original, in order to not be so disapointing to fans. It's a lot to live up to because I like the the original so much and when watching 7 it felt like the series went on for too long and not much progression was taking place with each episode. Lots of filler and things were spaced apart too much imo. Also by making Basara the hero who comes to save the day with his singing, everytime, each episode, stretched over the course of the series, the idea wears very thin and you are kind of glad that it is all finally over and the conflict resolved. I don't have anything against the actual music itself, but more the way things were done and how there is never really enough explanation as to why only this guy can save us and is so much more special than the other characters. At least hikaru was just this normal guy who you could believe was real. It is quite possible to make a series that appeals to both young (kids to teens) and old audiences (old school fans of the original) without losing the magic of the original; that hidden ingredient that made us actually care what was going to happen to the characters in each episode. It was just that the story felt a little watered down, the protodevlin were a little single-minded and shallow, and the mecha were not as much a focus of the series anymore. Just a tacked-on addition to make us fans keep watching. (we didn't see much of the VF22 until right at the end which had soooo much potential for giving us regular cool valk duels - imagine max+milia versus hundreds of zombie pilots - similar to the opening scene in macross plus ova) The weak points in macross 7 to me are mainly to do with the storytelling part. I stuck through it, because: -I wanted to see mechs fighting, big explosions, herioc deaths, one-to-one duels etc just as I did when I was a little kid. This was provided..... nicely in the end, but because of macross plus raising the bar, I felt so much more could have been done. -I was curious about who the protodevlin were. Similar to my curiosity about the reference made about clone wars in star wars. Maybe to fans it is worth watching only because it fills up a few gaps in the original series (about the makers of the zentradi) that were left open. I was curious to see what happened to the human race after the end of SW I and the possibility of human and zentradi encountering thier creators or at least the remains of the lost civilisation/protoculture. (like DYRL)

Hopefully there will be many homages to the old 80s animated movie. If they can aim it a little higher than just kids (and try to get the adult TF toy fans to see it) it should do well. Many people probably have fond memories of the original G1 from when they were a kid even if they didn't like the show that much it was one fo the most popular shows at the time. The animated movie kind of captures that epic feel to the TF universe (ie its like star wars right from the words that start to scroll up the screen) that you didn't feel in the tv series. Prime dies, Megatron sheds his old body, starscream is wasted, there is this holy artifiact insides primes body. Religious symbolism. (massive death-star-like planet that transforms into a giant demon, and light that defeats it) Copy star wars, and the G1 movie and I will see it and hopefully enjoy it. We all know the real reason characters die is so that they can sell more toys hehe I would like there to even be a classic battle with melee beam weapons, the iconic symbol of megatron fighting prime in hand to hand combat that is on the cover of the dvd of the animated movie. Maybe even get vince dicola and some metal band to play the theme music for the decipticons? Remember that scene where starscream wasted all those autobots and that "Instruments of destruction" song plays in the background? I think that was the single most cool part about the movie. It captures who I think starscream is: he has this rocker scream and sarcasm, and unlike soundwave is always trying to plot the death of his own people who get in the way of his ambition. Nope I didn't cry when he died in the movie like I did when prime did, but I did feel a sense of sorrow that one of the cool bad guys is finally gone. None of the other decepticons had quite the same personality as starscream who were all kind of dry. (more like incompetent goons or loyal soldiers without thier own ambition that makes them stand out) And there were many funny moments in the movie and tv series for example when he kicks megatron on the ground and throws him out into space or when unicron asks for starscream (his ghost at least) to give him his eyes back but SS doesn't fill his end of the bargain. I laughed at that. I just think it was funny.

The world is going to be doomed if we unite under a single government where everyone agrees to disarm and the UN had its way. Does anyone remember what happened in that Simpsons episode where Lisa Simpson finally gets her wish of world peace by confiscating every gun, bomb, and WMD in the world? Then what followed was an alien attack? The aliens were armed with 'boards with a nail on the end' which made them technologically superior to us and left us, the entire human race, defenceless. Without weapons to protect us, alien invasions are much easier. I'm going to join up with the anti-un. Peace can only be achieved when people "agree to disagree" with each other and stay seperated the way God intended when he deliberately split the races into many cultures and languages in ancient Babylon, so that the whole world was not taken absolute control of by a single power and where the controller couldn't just do as they pleased. The character Sauron in Lord of the Rings tried to unite the world under a single rule, using the magic rings and look what happened: It was a huge trojan horse that got the world into deep poo because leaders were too corrupt by uber power that they genetically created armies of the Orc-hai which raped the environement (tree huggers take note) to build thier warmachine. These are like the "ubermensch" of the geeks' fantasy world. The UN = evil. (you can still have good enough peace without disarming) Harmony Gold = evil. I think the UN is using anime as a vehicle to secretly program the next generation of kids to help build thier dream of eventual world domination. The human race won't stand a chance against the coming zentradi if the world is too peaceful. Earth needs it's wars to strengthen us to fight the aliens, you see.

This is why I think if they space apart releases carefully, more people can afford to get the bigger, more expensive stuff. I think the impulse to buy smaller toys sometimes gets in the way of saving up for the bigger ones. I just bought a whole bunch of alternators for eg which I could have spent on another koenig or put away for gbp. Then there is the BBC stuff to get, the garland, maybe a few MP alpha, etcetc which puts off and delays buying of other things.

Well the logic is that: if nobody buys mechs in vfx license, they'll think nobody wants toys anymore. So fanboys: "Buy the koenigs to get the vfx vf19 fp"... The beta fighter er... i mean yf19fp rests on you buying other stuff to keep the license afloat. We are poor, help us. Donate as much as you can!

If it looks like 1/72 scale yf19 with FP, I would buy that too. Just give some dates to build up anticipation It all rests on Keonig monster sales I bet. "Buy the koenig to get the yf19fp. Evil Harmony Gold agents have taken over and secretly runs the company in now..mwaha ha ha"

Yeah but I think the author was writing this for the masses so he had to dumb it down a little by including "robotech" so people knew. Gamespot is primarily a game site not an anime one. Thanks to HG, a lot of americans may not have been exposed to the 'real' version known as Macross and only know it as robotech. Sadly by using the robotech name as a vehicle to get people interested it might make them notice a little more. I've noticed that there is a lot of this 'myth' mixed with ancient technology theme in robot shows too. Even in macross you could say that the ancient protoculture race (like some atlanteans with superior knowledge) were in some way trying to teach us something by giving us thier better tech to fight bad people. "Don't phuck up the planet like we did kids..stay the hell away from the weapons we made, ok??? Be nice to animals, plants, and the environment and please don't abuse the uber power or you will all die! Oh by the way, there is a biological experiment gone wrong lurking around out in space somwhere, be a kind boy and go kill it for us could you?" Signed, - The extinct aliens/your gods/master geneticists/the "good" non-rebellious angels

I loved the old BBC. Are you saying they are going to pull a Harmony Gold style "blackmail them to increase sales" trick on thier fans to see a Motoslave? "Buy an alpha to get a beta"-type thing? I would really love to see a packaged deal where you get a figure with the MS.

The 'matrix' and 'AI' are both pretty close imo: humans already do lose jobs once machines can do the tasks more efficiently, forcing people to train for new skills in some other job. But if we didn't progress we wouldn't have so much leisure time and convenience. tasks that would take ages to do, now have been made easier(including killing) UAVs could be thought of as a start to it all, (watch macross plus) but humans are still needed just as programmers are still needed to make new programs to make the robots better. I like to think of all this machinery as somehow dehumanising of society, where people's self worth and life is lessened when thier skills is no longer needed and that if the elite had thier way the whole world could just be run by some massive super computer like in appleseed. The technology that we have as convenient as it all is, somehow has a dark side to it, as if we were forbidden to have it. (weapons of mass destruction anyone? It's a bit like in conan: the gods didn't want to give us the "fire from heaven - the knowledge to make steel weapons" but rebellious angels stole it from heaven to give to us and created this mess of arms race) It's not that we don't apreciate thier positives (that the technology can be used for good) but that some "mad scientist" type takes control of it all and uses it against us to control the whole population and keep themselves at the top of the pyramid. (look at how easily privacy has been striped away and big brother is able to spy on you. Pay close attention to movies like "enemy of the state" and the date that this was released...almost as if the government is trying to tell you: "this is what we plan to do in real life; here's a glimpse of the future, get used to it. Cause it will happen soon") There should always be balances and checks to advances and this is why I suspect why certain sci-fi movies are made: to condition us as a mass population to eventually accept the vision as being inevitable. You could think of it as a kind of mind conditioning. They want to test your reaction. The more violent, the longer they will postphone the eventual plan to introduce something (a new policy like national id cards) they know the majority will be against. I think the future won't be the same as the present where it is as easy as protesting or rioting if you don't get your way: it will be similar to that movie Fortress (the one with christopher lambert) where anyone who disagrees with the popular idea of the time will be kept in some high tech prison and tracked down. Notice how in all sci-fi there is always a catastrophe with machines turning against us? Not just terminator but think of HAL, the AI computer that goes rogue and judges humans behaviour and tries to preserve itself. Too much high technology can be a bad thing when it isn't used ethically. If we did have robots running the world without our help, the reason for human existence would go away. I particularly like how in terminator the "mark of the beast" was subtly referenced in a scene where Kyle Reese shows Sarah Conner the laser skin marking, indicating he was in some sort of nazi-robot death camp and given a number and used as a guinea pig for study of humans and torture before our mass termination. You could think of sarah as a "Mary" figure who will have a virgin birth (since the person she did it with didn't exist) of a messiah (John Conner) who saves the world against the machines. This is very timely for christians who believe that a biometric chip (placed inside and under the skin - look up "Digital Angel" in google) will be a strong candidate for a future "mark of the beast" on all humans when our world reaches a point in time and enters into a world government and we get used to a cashless society where all transactions are done digitally. (already there are supermarkets where you can scan things yourself and pay that way - this is the future but the future is now.) At the risk of sounding too much of a luddite: "technology could be evil! Human can't always trust it. The digital age, where anything can be editied easily and hacked into, and used to control, spy, cheat and steal; could be the age where people give up thier worries and concerns and rely way too much on the machine" In anime Ghost in the shell pretty much touches on this theme of what it means to be human. So does blade runner. Only in real life the robots in those shows are actually ourselves, looking for meaning when systems control every aspect of your life and we become the mindless robots ourselves in every thing you do. This is why I find it odd that people shun the more "spiritual" aspects of the movies because to me its relevent to humans who use technology everyday without thought, (think about the computer we type on and how it could be monitored with spyware loggers of your keystrokes) but yet still look at some older movies as science "fiction" when they are pretty close to where we are now. (cloning for commercial use in "sixth day" (the neopets come to mind ), "virtual reality"-type graphics and player-created "mods" in games from the "matrix" movies, and even remote-piloted, unmanned vehicles or AI controlled ones, with sony's Stealth movie. Even the movie Gattaca is relevent today. Eugenics: people will soon be judged soley on thier genes. The worthless ones who may be more susceptible to diseases are taken out and we have engineered a "perfect" society. Ok so the characters aren't real but the themes are serious ones that need to be considered, because if a lot of technology is kept secret and is actually more advanced than what the public is allowed to see, than the fiction in the movies isn't fiction at all. It's more a sneak peak into what really going to be happening but the introduction of it all has to be so that you are in a state of calm and willingness to accept it eventually. It may not match the fictional image 100% (for example the popular giant humanoid robot "Gundams" in anime) but some are at least a little surprised at the sight of real working "miniture tanks" that remind them of "guntank" mechs they've seen. "Replacing humans" isn't an idea that is way far into the future imo, we could be closer than we think.

The clues are in macross zero: Project iconclasm: The UN will destroy whatever it can't have to prevent the enemy from having it and taking control. At the expense of innocent people and peaceful cultures who wish t be left alone. Harmony Gold: HG will destroy whatever it can't have to prevent the enemy from having it and taking control. At the expense of innocent fans who miss out on macross goodies. Robotech Characters: The failed human experiment that shouldn't have lived so long but survived because there are people who still cling on to it so it can't be euthanised and die humanely. The bird human felt pity for the wretched organism letting it live - an abomination of both animal/human and alien dna. So too the robotech characters: a mutant strain of several tv series molded together as an experiment which went wrong, still being able to continue to live to this day like the failed experiment. Man I so wished arnie would just get on with making the third conan movie already.

Sorry the sony one wasn't human size. Must have been confused. But it will be aproaching what we should expect in the near future as more money is made from robots. doh I think robots really could have practical purposes if there were just masses of people buying them up because of practical purposes. Ie lets say a robot that walks you dog or something? It's just a case of them having a good use rather than being only for hobbyists like with personal comupters in the early days. I think though that it is starting with toy-scale robots first because it's affordable for the masses for now, but in the future when more and more practical uses are found we could possibly see those bipedal regult style machines. (patrolling an area like a cop or something to guard a building?) The forest walker that was in another thread is very interesting since it is real. As technology into walking robots gets better and the robots get over the "helpme, I've fallen over!" problem it wouldn't suprise me if in the future we see the designs from sci-fiction. It doesn't seem all that strange to me for robots co-operating together to do a simple tasks that we humans could do. Say for example a vehicle that is automated to pick up walking robots from a stop, open its doors to let them in, close the doors, then leave and drop the walker robots to some new loaction)

I'm more interested in the ones that sony and honda made: -They are about human sized -in the future I can imagine them serving us at some fast food place. Just like the robot from jetsons cartoon -they can get up after falling (remember ED209's prob? Robots that fall and can't help themselves are a waste of time) Now imagine for a second if we added a jetpack of some sort onto the human sized robots? And then we added features to remote pilot the human robots for missions? (put a camera eyeball in the head) Exploration in dangerous places would be ideal for a humanoid robot. Remember the virtual reality suit in the movie lawnmower man? Something similar to that could be the interface to the macine. I think those ones that take on a human size and form are the best in terms of realism. Then if they want, they can experiment with the larger bipedal mech stuff. Unless those bipedal ones could boost jump and hop like in macross, I see them as being ed209-ish in clumsiness. You need proper arms to pick yourself up and animal like agility to be useful.

Just sell it on ebay as a super rare limted edition yamato with incorrect pieces. "Rare limited edition double right booster valk" See if any of the people who buy robotech masterpieces for high prices will buy it. I'm never going to buy off TSINC. They sound pretty dodgy.

Since I don't own any of the original yamato yf19 releases I would get it. I would still want a bigger size if it wasn't a problem though. I think 1/65 would be ok because this would compete against the bandai mac 7 toys in scale. I want something strong like the bandai stuff, yet detailed and poseable enough to look good for display. If it is durable and strong you will appeal to both young kids and adult toy collectors. (People will want to be able to pick this thing up and handle a lot) Smaller stuff is great but I fear something will break if transformed too much. And I don't care too much for diecast for its heaviness when trying to pose it in various positions in battroid.

Your sick H doujinshi images don't count as canon. That's interesting, I thought by now they would have given the old man hands or something. How does he eat and stuff?

Nah only the leaders are genetically modified to a point where they are ugly enough to scare people. Most of the soldiers are like us. Besides that was just the movie with hollywood makeup artists turning them slimy. How do you know these were the real zentrans? After all Exedol didn't have tentacles in macross 7 did he? I think some of the bridge crew may have even thought he was handsome.

Then does that mean Macross 7 fans = meltran. and the m7 haters = zentran. :D And the consumer whore are the humans taking the technology I think the problem with debates like this, is lots of people won't give what they hate a chance. As much as they are not fans of the series, they may discover in time there is some deep message underneath it. I knew the minute I had seena few episodes that this was not what I was hoping for. Especially when the original macross was all about technology, killing, war, this one seemed to be more about the humans themselves and thier own hidden potential. But I forced myself to kind of understand it. Yes the valks look ugly, yes it isn't as cool as macross plus, and the main character's own songs are sung much too repetitively. Unlike in DYRL the culture shock wasn't as much a 'weapon' or a distraction to bring the zentradi back to normal. This time the culture that was lacking in ourselves (who were becoming too reliant on destructive force, and heroic idols) was the key to winning. To me Macross 7 tries to link the 'creative' (female?) part of human mind with the destructive (male?) side of the mind and the characters like the 'males and females' killing each other in wars in DYRL reflects our own struggle to allow our hidden male or female side to awaken. (in humans. The universe where all this struggle happens being the human mind) Whereas minmay was the sole creator of this song energy in the original, basara was more like the "teacher" getting us all to use our own energy to create the energy to become somewhat self sufficient so that when the idols pass on, their inspiration allows others to take his place. (the alice holiday character is a fine example: she used up all her energy and felt her creativity and passion was lost until her fan inspired her to keep singing. An over worked person needs to loosen up and relax and forget the pressure to want success over wanting to create new things for people) If you are familiar with Jung's ideas on "anima and animus", characters like basara are not so annoying because thier convictions make more sense. To me if a character's ideals do not makes sense I find it hard to apreciate personally because they just come off as irrational and annoying. Once I get what they are thinking, (treating dangerous enemies as equal as the humans without a thought) watching the show is not like being raped like the first time you saw it and were too focused on it not being what you hoped for and expected. But just because I apreciate it, does not mean I HAVE to like it. (there are millions of little things I would have preffered to see, over it.) It's quite possible to really like and apreciate a poem or a song, or a movie, but it not being "your thing" so much that you would want to see more of it. It might be intellectually stimulating but not as entertaining and relaxing as something else. The problem though with debates is most people just won't give the things that they are not into, a chance. If macross was more like gundam you would have too many people complaining that its just the same stuff over and over again (just replace the zentradi with a new alien species) and they might start to get sick of it over time. I think macross 7 was a deseperate attempt to try and go further with the idea of "creation" (Carl Jung's "our female half in all males, and male half in all females" idea) rather than making the problem the fault of aliens, it tried to go further by saying it's something inside ourselves that needs to be expressed to fight the universal threat of wars in all species. (and in the real world a famous artists with charisma can help to bridge gaps) In SDF:macross and DYRL the problem of the warring, was because aliens forogt the culture, whereas in macross 7 it's US who are partly the problem too: that we need to create for ourselves instead of being a void that consumes culture. By not consuming it, and instead, sharing and creating it ourselves (through creative activities like singing, dancing, performing, making our own art etc that can inspire other artists to keep up thier career. Even something as simple as creatingyour own unique dance moves..) we become self-sufficient and not such a destructive threat to other cultures out there who might be in danger of being destroyed by us. An example in macross zero: the mayans 'culture' and thier singing, myths, connection to thier spiritual powers was completely taken away by the war between the anti-un and un in macross zero as more and more people were moving into cities for a more 'consumer' culture. What happens when sara and Mao are gone? Thier culture will be forgotten just like the cultures before thiers, and the protoculture before that. Without culture to inspire others to be entirely 'creative' and self sufficient themselves, people become just like the protodevlin which are zombies feeding off other people's hard work, by only consuming and "stealing" other people's energy like vampiric parasites and becoming too reliant on others to survive, and the cycle repeats until there is nothing left to take. It's not about being antiwar or pro-war but solving the energy crisis and the enemies' incentive to take and be needy. I'm not saying haters have to like macross 7 or fans have to convince everyone that they are wrong for not liking it, just that each side gives the other a chance. Not all people's opinions stay the same and over time some opinions may even change. They may go from hating something, to slowly apreciating it, and maybe years and years start to like it for something. If you seperate the haters and the fans, all you are doing it preaching to the converted. If everyone in the world had the exact same taste we'd be in a boring place. Everyone shouuld have a right to state thier opinion on something and not have to be called an idiot to pressure them to agree with you. Their opinions should be formed by themselves over time, so that they start to agree with your side once they thought about it for themselves rather than giving into pressure by a majority who just want converts to thier side. When you go to forums when everyone else is in agreement, sure it is more PEACFUL, but it's also more boring. The truth is, lots of people probably come to forums like this to hear other people's different opinions about something (they probably just don't know they do) although they will never admit it. IF you want peace: peace comes with understanding. You don't have to have the same opinion, just understand the other side and maybe tolerate differences rather than whining about thier complaints about something you love and apreciate, because you didn't get your way.

So is it any good? Is that little wheeled robot inside it?