Hurin

I thought that Macross II (while existing in a non-canon universe) was based on DYRL and not the TV series. Could be wrong though. H

Yes, if Kawamori said: "I'm going to do a new series loosely based on Macross but totally unrelated and un-beholden to the other Macross series here-to-fore, so please don't try to fit it into that continuity. . ." Yes, that would work. But, that wasn't what you were saying. You were saying about Macross Zero and a possible re-design of the VF-1 therein. . . And, as I pointed out. . . there is no indication that Macross Zero should be considered an "ALTERNATE storyline". . . rather, it appares to be intented to give us the backdrop for SDF Macross. Its entire point for existing is to flesh out more of the existing continuity and to tell a story within that continuity. Now you want to act like you're just thinking deeper than all of us. . . hence you write: Do us all a favor. Stop acting as though anyone who thinks your idea is a bad one must be misunderstanding you and/or just too stupid to dwell on the same heightened intellectual plane on which you currently find yourself. Could it be that you are explaining yourself poorly? Or, could it be that you are now mis-representing what you originally said above about how re-designing the VF-1 could/should affect the established continuity? A la: Well, that would be fine, if that's all you suggested. But, well, here it is again: So, you suggested far more than you are now willing to address. You didn't just espouse how nice it would be to have a whole new series with all new mecha totally unbeholden to the olders shows/movies. . . you also said that could be applied to Macross Zero and any continuity-breaking stuff that might take place in it. And that is what I was addressing. You seem to now want to pretend you never said this. . . while simultaneously insulting the intelligence of people who don't like the idea of Macross Zero taking place in an "ALTERNATE storyline." I think most people are excited about Macross Zero because it is not an "ALTERNATE storyline" but instead represents the closest return to the SDF Macross time period that we have seen since DYRL. We are all curious to see what happened immediately before SDF Macross. We're all happy to see Roy Foker again. So, we really don't want someone coming in, mangling some of our older, favorite mecha, and then saying: "It's okay, because this is an alternate universe with no real bearing on the other series" when all along we have been interested because it has bearing on the other first series. Look: Yes, Gundam doesn't pay a lot of attention to continuity. I guess. I'm not a Gundam fan. But just because it doesn't do so, does not mean Macross shouldn't. Nor does your little idea really fix any plot-holes or inconsistencies. Rather, it just codifies a "don't ask, don't tell" policy whenever something should come up that doesn't fit. Some of us value continuity and the sense that these series do fit together and tell a long story of humanity's journey into Space War I and well beyond. So, to be blunt: I (and the "average Macross fan") am totally capable of conceiving of "seperate works of fiction." It just happens to be my contention that Macross is not intended to be viewed as unrelated, seperate works of fiction. Nor do I think that going in that direction in Macross's future is a desirable idea for all the reasons expressed above. Finally, this idea of "ALTERNATE storylines" isn't exactly rocket science. Anyone who has given any thought to the nature of popularized fiction and/or followed a fictional "world" for any length of time has come across the need to "canon-ize" some things and throw out other things (either completely, or into an un-canon or sometimes even a co-equal "alternate universe"). So please don't flatter yourself by asserting that this is somehow a difficult or advanced concept that you are espousing. It is neither. It is, however, a bad idea, in my opinion. And, despite your rather rude posts to the contrary, I don't have to be an idiot to think so. Best Regards, Hurin

No. . . because there is no indication that the VF-1 will be redesigned. This has all just sorta sprang up from several (questionable) leaps of logic among the fans here. Nor is there any real indication that the VF-1 will appear in Macross Zero at all. Though, I can see why many would think it will. H

Though I agree that drawing comparisons with SW, ST & LOTR is stretching efforts in finding common comparable grounds, what's with all this "fanboy" bashing? As far as I'm concerned everyone in here in MW is a Fan or a.k.a. SCI-FI geek (in various degrees). The effort guys like you make in attempt to degrade others by calling them "fanboys" is simply juvenile. Not to mention that he's missing the point. The beauty of Macross is that it isn't like Western Sci-Fi. And, what I was pointing out was yet one more aspect of how different Macross is from those other franchises. Further, I was pointing out how making changes to existing storylines and/or Mecha designs might bring over some of the more unpalatable aspects of those franchises and their fanbases. But, silly me. . . as aptly demonstrated by these forums. . . we already have long, heated, and pointless arguments about minutia that doesn't really matter. H

Uh, no. I would love more Macross stories, characters, and mecha. I just think you can do them without retroactively changing/altering what has come before. Hence there is no need for "ALTERNATE storylines." How does inserting new stories, characters and mecha designs "lame it up" as long as you leave the stuff that has come before well-enough alone? When talking about a re-design of the VF-1, we're not talking about new characters, stories, or mecha designs. . . we're talking about changing an existing one. You seem to be asserting that this would be fine as long as Macross Zero is considered an "ALTERNATE storyline." I was not aware that Macross Zero is an alternate storyline. Nor have I read that it takes place in a alternate universe. To my knowledge, it is set in the same timeline, storyline, and universe as SDF Macross. M0 merely predates SDF Macross chronologically within the fictional timeline. If Kawamori wants to come out with a re-designed VF-1 and say this is an alternate vision of what it should look like but is somehow not what they will look like a few years later when the zentraedi come to earth for Space War I because that is an alternate storyline not related to M0 in any way. . . fine. But I don't think he will say that. Nor do I think he will intend that. If he redesigns the VF-1 and places it in a story that predates M0, it stands to reason that he envisions that being the VF-1 that fights in Space War I as told in SDF Macross in an almost retroactive sense. To me, that is a simple concept. But, re-designing the VF-1 in such a way would "lame it up". . . to use your phrase. So I doubt he would do it. Further, I doubt he would make the mistake of again "laming up" the continuity as he did with DYRL by announcing yet more alternate storylines. So, again, I don't think he's going to redesign the VF-1 to any appreciable degree. Holy crap. That is just nonsense. I realize you are trying to be funny. But. . . that analogy just doesn't work. First, nobody is that stupid. I mean, I really shouldn't have to spell this out, but I'm going to do so: All the Macross series are obviously related. . . and to assert that my desire to see some continuity within the various Macross series with some over-wrought need to see connections with totally-unrelated series of movies (Matrix and Bill & Ted). . . well. . . there's just no point there. Except possibly a silly cheap shot that is truly ineffective due to its degree of implausibility Kawamori has made no sign that he intends to redesign the VF-1. Nor has he indicated that there are two (or more) "canons" (unless you count the divorce from MII and the relegation of DYRL to "movie within the canon" status). In fact, he has shown some awareness of the need for continuity by stating that, where M0 is concerned, if he has to bend the canon and previously established timeline, then he will do so. . . and that will be the canon. In fact the disavowing of MII and the change to DYRL's place in the continuity shows that Kawamori is concerned with continuity to some degree. Which all sorta dovetails into what ewilen says above. It sounds to me like you'd like to see more mecha designs and more Macross and that you are willing to sacrifice continuity to see as many of them as possible. Hence, you're willing to perpetuate the concept of these "ALTERNATE storylines" in order to bring them about. That is your right and your opinion. I'd just rather see all-new stuff than re-invented old stuff that tends to throw things into turmoil and confuse things. "ALTERNATE storylines" only muddy things up unnecessarily. H Edit: Mispelled ewilen's name.

No, you wouldn't. But in many people's minds, it would render all the older renditions "obsolete." If the original creator comes out and says: "This is the VF-1, according to me, the guy who created it". . . then a lot of people will be looking at their Yamato collection and going: "Well then. . . what exactly do these represent? A temporary pit-stop on the way to this new ideal of the VF-1 that seems to constantly germenating in your noggin?" If it comes directly from Kawamori, many will now consider their "classic" design valks to be non-canon. A drastic re-design would insert into Macross all the of the lameness, arguing, and factions that now hold sway over the Star Wars fanbase, or any other community where the "gods" of those universes come back and retroactively change things that are already set in stone. It's generally not a good idea. . . except for the pocket book of the toy manufacturers and the producers. You can call it a "simple" concept if you want. And to you, it might be. But others might feel differently about Macross, and how Kawamori's decisions influence it. Really, it all comes down to how you view an artist's intention and its effect on a final piece of art. Or, indeed, if a piece of art can ever truly be considered final (George Lucas sure doesn't seem to think so. . . if you can call his movies art). Anyways, for all those reasons, and probably more that are beyond my puny brain's ability to comprehend, I don't think there will be a redesign. H P.S. I won't argue Star Wars and/or Lucas. I already have. With ugly results.

What he said. In my opinion, you have to have seen the TV series before you can appreciate DYRL. Once you've seen both, it's entirely possible to like DYRL more (some do). But, I don't think many of those people who prefer DYRL to the TV series could have ever gotten to that point without first having seen the TV series. On a subconcious level, you bring all of the more thorough story-development from the TV series to the movie. . . even when you are noticing that the movie cuts a lot out. In other words, you already care about the characters and like them in DYRL because you saw the TV series. Whereas, if you come to DYRL first, there isn't enough character/story development to make you give a rat's #ss about what happens to these strange people on the screen. H

Okay, I don't think this is overtly political. So I hope I'm allowed to say this: I think you mis-read/heard that. What you are referring to (I believe) is the "Tax Freedom Day" celebrated by political conservatives and other low/anti-tax types. It isn't that, by May, the average person has had enough deducted from their paychecks that they can pay their taxes. Rather, it is that, by a certain day in May, the average person has earned enough in total (without any deductions) to pay their taxes. Meaning, you take all the money you have earned over the first 4-5 months of the year. . . and that pays for your taxes for that year. From that point on, you're working for yourself. However, the point that conservatives are trying to make there is that, when local, state, federal, and consumption taxes are all considered, the average person spends the first 4-5 months of every year working for the government. How true that is would be a political debate, and one that I won't engage in here. And, if I'm told that I should have sent that via PM. . . well. . . that would allow the (IMHO) mis-information here to stand uncountered. And that wouldn't be very cool now, would it? Anyways, with that cleared up. Can we let the whole nature of tax refunds thing drop? I'm sorry I brought it up. From now on, please just post what you would do with your tax refund and leave the politics out of it. H

Yeah. . . really. Dude, it's just a linguistic convention. If you're getting upset about that. . . you might want to re-examine your life. People consider "die-cast" to mean die-cast metal. Deal with it. You can go around talking about plastic as though it is die-cast if you want. And you might even be technically correct. But nobody will understand you and you'll just be tilting at windmills while being thought a fool. Jeez. . . H

I think I may have said this before, so forgive me if I am repeating myself: I have always wanted a Macross helmet. I just think it would be one of those cool things to have on your coffee table. But, by "cool," you understand that I mean the "woman-repellant" brand of cool. I don't know where this desire came from. I think it is because I always thought it was cool that Hikaru had Roy's old helmet on his coffee table. If they made a TV version of Roy's helmet. . . I'd probably pay up to $500 for it. But, even for my crazy ass, those DYRL-colored $1200 helmets are too much. H P.S. Macross does not always repel girlfriends. Over two months, I've gotten my gf halfway through SDF:Macross. I think she'll finally see why I love it after "Pineapple Salad" and "Bursting Point". . . but right now, we've got to suffer through "Phantasm.". . . she fell asleep halfway through it last night. I don't blame her.

I would say: "Leave it alone." Though, redesigns as minor as the sort of cool touch-ups done between SDF:Macross and DYRL wouldn't be too bad. If it was done that tastefully, I wouldn't throw my spoon down and throw a hissy fit. But, I wonder if there are really rumors so much as there are people who are asserting "continuity problems" and then asserting a need for these perceived problems to be fixed via a re-design. Could be wrong though. Has anyone surrounding Macross itself in any official capacity said anything about this? H

I think Danguard Ace fixed the clock. But make sure that your Daylight Savings Time checkbox is check/unchecked appropriately in your profile as that too can cause the time to appear an hour off. H

Ack. Didn't see that. Thanks for the warning. Back on topic: I'm going to buy the VF-1S Hikaru 1/48 and the Foker re-issue . . . and the rest goes to paying off a large portion of my credit card debt. Edit: That puppy is adorable. H

Because this post came after the warning by the moderator, I am being forced to remove it. I would like the record to show, however, that the deleted post did not --unlike those posts to which it responds-- contain any personal attacks or anything otherwise inappropriate (save that it continued a debate that was political in nature). Its only crime was that it had the ill-fortune to be posted after I missed the Moderator's warning. Personally, I don't think the content of posts should be changed in this manner to the extent that the "record" of what was said is permanently changed (while leaving other posts untouched). But I'm being given no choice. <_< H

Holy crap dude.! It is disturbing how widespread this thinking has gotten. Instead of the government letting people live their lives and enjoy the fruits of their labor while (grudgingly) paying as little in taxes as possible. . . some now consider the people to be nothing more than the means for the government to aquire more funding. That is completely backwards. It is not my job to pay taxes PERIOD. It is the law. . . so I am obligated to do so. . . but it ain't my friggin' job. . . nor does being the law of the land make over-taxation (or any other act of government) intrinsically moral. Other than that dude, I'm not going to touch this. Why don't you settle down and stop calling people names just for expressing an opinion. It happens to be my opinion that we are over-taxed and that our government should do less and tax us less. There is a long and distinguished shool of political thought that feels the same way. Deal with it. But until you can actually have a conversation or argument without calling names . . . don't bother starting one. But, this is neither the time, nor the place. Personally, since we've so obviously started talking about politics (not allowed), I hope this thread gets locked. H

"Scam" may have been a poor choice of words. What bothers me are those who seem to think that the government is somehow granting them a boon when it gives them back their own freakin' money. Yes, you should be happy that you got it back. . . but when people act like the government is giving them money. . . that's a screwed up way of looking at it when it was money that you earned. As for Huh? Where the hell did that come from? Again. . . huh? Where does discussion of the nature of a tax refunds swerve into: "Do you think you're special!?! What! You don't wanna pay taxes, tough guy?!?" I'm done here. No, really! H

Just realized that we're veering this topic dangerously close to the politics precipice. So, I for one, will shut up now. H

Emphasis on the word some. By no means enough. H

As the resident, grumpy, free-market conservative around here, I must remind all of you: Tax refunds are a friggin' scam. Remember, this is money that you should have had all year. . . but the government overcharged you. Yet, do they pay you the interest on the money that you loaned them and that they "held" for you all year? Nope. Now, I'm not as bitter about this as I may seem. I actually like the money-bomb that my tax refund usually drops on me this time of year. But, well. . . nobody should consider their tax refund to be some sort of gift from Uncle Sam. H

Wow dude. And I thought I had a thin skin. Trust me, we're being nice compared to how some respond to redundant posts and/or n00b questions around here. At least you weren't flamed outright. . . Just having a little fun with you. No offense intended. Anyways. . . don't take your ball and go home. We need new blood around here to counter the bitterness of the old fogies who yell at the newbies for the tiniest offense. Well, for those who wanted to see what he posted, here's the link. Best Regards, H

Hey, it's only Sunday! Looks like we got an early start on the weekly "Hey! Look! A Macross 1:1 helmet!" thread. Here's looking forward to the same "news" next week! H

Those are them. . . except those are all blank (as I'm sure you're aware). Crazy Cannuck had actually colored those (very well!) for just about every possible scheme. . . I'd love to find those! But, thanks for the blanks. Those are cool too! H

You mean like I'm doing with my 1/55s? Sorry. Shameless plug. H

If anyone can locate him, I'd gladly host those images on my own site if he can no longer do so. They ruled. H

Always seemed perfectly well-done to me. In war, there is rarely a nice dramatic "working up" to the point where you suddenly get taken out. Rather, it happens, in an instant. At least they gave Roy the extra time to go to the woman he loved and spend his last moments with her, rather than hopelesslyl clinging to life, hooked up to machines, as doctors tear his body apart. . . H