Hurin

You know what. Forget that last post. I guess you could just say that I'm sick and tired of people trying to prove just how laid-back and easy-going they are by dropping into topics only to declare that they don't care about the topic! It has happened too many times now to count. It wouldn't be so bad if these "easy-going" wannabe hippies could do so while refraining from actually insulting those that do care about the topic at hand. But they rarely do so. I'm not saying you're one to do that regularly BSU Legato, so I'm sorry that I'm lashing out at you for the transgressions of others over time. My apologies. But so help me, I'm so damn tired of people waltzing into threads and essentially saying: "You guys are geeks for caring about this. Look at me. I don't care about it. Aren't I cool? God, I'm just so much cooler than you." H

Uh. . . exactly. I was curious about whether it was canon. So, if you want to say that it "bothered me", fine. Go ahead. But, I'm saying that you are apparently bothered by people discussing it. So much so that you feel it necessary to drop in and mock those who were curious about it. No, but oddly, you do feel compelled to post about people who do want to discuss such things. . . nice. Funny, I didn't refer (or quote) the part about the "canon police." Only the part where you directly tell those concerned about whether something is canon that they're wasting their time or that they are somehow obsessive because they take things "waaaaaay too seriously." Further, you asked, quite directly, several questions. I answered them. No, not me alone. But considering I asked the original question and my posts comprised about half of the posts on the topic, I think you can see where I would consider your post to be addressing the topic that I brought up. . . if not me directly. Either way, I don't appreciate someone dropping in, adding nothing substantive, and then impugning the topic which I began, if not me directly. My beef is with the habit so many people have here of dropping into thread and posting a critique, not about someone's argument. . . not about the validity of someone's reasoning. . . nor the veracity of a rumor. . . Nope. My beef is with people who drop into a topic solely to say: "Dude, you're stupid/anal/dorky to even discuss this." In this case, it was regarding whether something was canon. It is evident that some people care about such things, otherwise there would not be threads discussing it. So, exactly why do you feel the need to pop in just to mock those who do care? Sure, you have a right to do so because it's your opinion. But then I too have the right to point out that popping in just to mock those taking part in a debate is crass, rude, and usually a sign of someone needing to express his sense of superiority over those he considers beneath him. You don't care about canonical debates. Good for you. Go find a thread where it isn't disussed or ignore the posts where it is. But apparently, you first need to declare the topic lame. Why you feel the need to do so, I have no idea. I'm sure that in your 1,864 posts, I could find a thread or two where you discuss something I consider stupid or pointless. The difference is: I wouldn't find it necessary to point this out to you. I'd either contribute something substantive to your discussion or move on. H

Well, when you consider something really, truly lame, it is nice when the creators/license-holders/gods agree and say: "This isn't canon." Then you don't have it in your favorite universe anymore. My opinion is that making the largest, heaviest monument of a destroid transformable (and able to fly) is silly. It has always struck me as so. I wanted to know if this Monster was something that is accepted as part of the primary, official Macross Universe. Apparently, this question bothers you. Finally, my initial question aside --I do tend to like the stuff from the primary sources--, whether it is canon or not has only a partial bearing on whether or not I will be buying something. Now that this toy has been established as canon, I still won't be buying it. Yet I have a low-vis. Go figure. Nobody ever said it wasn't okay to like it. You just have a different opinion about this toy. And you seem to feel the need to pop into a discussion and mock those who are interested in the origins and canonical status of this toy. For the record, though, many collectors draw a line between canon and non-canon. Especially in situations where toy license holders go nuts and start creating a bunch of lame crap (Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire, anyone?) based on books or video games. . . only to have all that stuff later "disowned" by the creators. Instead of dropping in just to pronounce that such concerns are dumb and that I'm somehow wierd and take this "waaaaaay too seriously. . ." why don't you just let people ask their questions and get the proper answers. You know, like what just happened here before you came in to mock it. H

Yeah, I think we established that. . . about four times. But thanks for such a nuanced response.

As usual: a thoughtful, comprehensive, and balanced post from Ewilen. Thanks man! H

The mardook (from Macross II) are listed there. I had always understood them to be non-canon since Macross II has essentially been disowned by Kawamori and banished to an "alternate universe." The Compendium lists every mecha that has ever appeared in any Macross product, no? Is every Macross product ever released considered canon? H Just to clarify: I accept that it's canon. My only point here was that I'm not sure its inclusion on the Compendium's list is a certain indicator of such. I'm just willing to accept everyone's claim that it was intended to be part of M7 and that Kawamori accepts it as such. I'm done with the canon thing. Thanks to those who nicely pointed out why the consensus is that this mecha is canon. Best Regards, Hurin

The mardook (from Macross II) are listed there. I had always understood them to be non-canon since Macross II has essentially been disowned by Kawamori and banished to an "alternate universe." The Compendium lists every mecha that has ever appeared in any Macross product, no? Is every Macross product ever released considered canon? H

There's nothing wrong with someone being curious about whether this is an "official" Macross mecha or not. And, believe it or not, there are some of us who weren't terribly enamoured of the Low-Vis because it is not canon. Further, if nobody every asked if the Low-vis was canon, and the question was never answered and a consensus arrive at, we wouldn't know if it was or not. Man. . . some people's time is so precious. H

Except for when there is a vacuum of information. As I said, I don't know if Kawamori has stated unequivocally that the video games are canon. Nor have I heard of BW doing so. Nor have I heard of either saying anything similar about the Design Works book. I'm not saying that it hasn't been defined. I'm just saying that I haven't heard of it being done. And, in the lack of such information, yes, it is up to the fans to decide when the "gods" of a universe refuse to speak. And, let's also not forget that the "gods" tend to reverse themselves on such issues. I'm willing to be educated here. If the book or the video games have been officially designated as canon, please let me know. I don't really doubt that they have been since I have no factual knowledge of it. Indeed, I'm sure some would point out their inclusion in the Compendium as meaning that they are canon. Either way, I think the issues surrounding what is and is not canon are more complex than either you or Blaine are acknowledging. H

That would make more sense. Though "safe to say" and "end of story" are two very different attitudes towards the question. My own personal yardstick is something actually appearing in an anime. Video games are always a bit iffy to me. Especially, when, by their very nature, the outcome and events in a video game differs from player to player. Thus making it hard to say that what happens in a video game is what "officially" happened in the Macross universe. But, hey, if most people consider the video games canon. . . what do I care? H

I don't want to get into a big thing here. But just being designed by Kawamori does not make something "canon." The setting within which the mecha is placed must also be considered. In other words, a design by Kawamori that is placed within a non-canon work makes it a non-canon mecha. I don't know enough about the Macross video games to speak intelligently about this. My understanding is that, by and large, the video games are considered canon. But I don't think anything Kawamori doodles on a napkin is automatically canon. That's a pretty open standard.

Really? Is it in Macross 7? I've seen everything but that. Or is it from a game? H P.S. If i had my way, I doubt I'd consider M7 canon either.

Well. . . that and the fact that the TV series had 18 hours in which to tell their story. . . vs two. But that was an interesting post nonetheless. But one can read into things too much. I think everything that is in DYRL is also in SDF Macross. The latter just had the time to actually be subtle about it all. H

Maybe I'm just too much of a canon type guy. . . but a flying Monster just does nothing for me. H

It's all Photoshopped I tells ya! H

We're talking about valkyries again, right? H

First tip: Don't ever use that word. At least, not within earshot of any females. Or, quite possibly on MW.

Which one of us do you hate? As for me, she may have bought me a Max 1/48. But, well, she's only luke-warm about Macross. She sat through the television series. . . but when I proposed DYRL, she said she was burned out and needed a break from it. Hardly the reaction of a woman who loves Macross. But, I have to give her credit. Not many women would sit through 36 episodes of a cartoon for their guy. H

Dude, I was going to say almost exactly that as well. But I didn't want to turn this into a dating advice thread. My girlfriend is 23. We just had our one year (dating) anniversary. She bought me a Max 1J 1/48. She's a keeper. There is no way in hell that I would have had as good a relationship with her back when I was 23. Best Regards, H

Bah! You're still a kid! (I'm a month away from 30 myself) H

How old are ya man!?! You're never too old to find someone! H

Dude, I don't understand it. . . But more power to you! As long as you're spending your own money (and not credit card balances!). . . You go! H

Dude. . . now I just feel like a jerk for breaking into your house, tying you to your chair, taping your eyes open, and forcing you to read this thread. I actually think these sorts of things are cool if they are kept light. I don't see anyone getting all huffy. What's the harm? You don't like it, don't read it. H

In the original series, an episode entitled "Balance of Terror" is devoted to a cat-and-mouse game between Kirk at the helm of the Enterprise, and a cloaked Romulan ship commanded by a very Kirk-like Captain (oddly, played by the guy who would eventually play Spock's father). At one point, the Romulan ship cloaks and tries to appear destroyed by sending wreckage out into space. Along with the wreckage, they dump one of the "old" nuclear weapons they have onboard. The Enterprise narrowly avoids being destroyed when Spock notes among the debris: "one metal cased object." Kirk: "Helm hard over! Phaser fire! Point-blank!" The nuke explodes next to the ship upon being hit (I know, odd), but the Enterprise survives with minor damage and some radiation burns for some people in the lower decks. I'm assuming it's the shields that saved them. I really dug that episode when I was a kid cuz I loved submarines and that episode was modeled upon the classic sub movies. That's why I remember the dialogue. H

In DYRL, the valkryies are launched by crane/arm. . . so no landing gear. But the picture is still very cool!