Hurin

Good point. But this poll is so personally based. . . and almost half the choices aren't even Macross! In my humble opinion, a poll should be informative to the board members. I could be wrong. I posted my first poll today after a year or so. . . it is pretty rare that a valid reason to post a poll comes along. Anyways, no skin off my back. But I'd hate for the Max and Milia polls to be deleted because there are too many polls. . . just so this guy's brother can have a vote on what he should buy. H

Having just been told by Mechamechanic that we shouldn't have too many polls (I believe the Mods don't like to see more than a couple going at a time), I have to say: Was a poll for this really necessary? H

If it wasn't worth two polls. Why is it worth posting your concerns about it in both threads? Please take it over here.

Sigh. . . because they are different toys. Some say that the paint looks worse on the Milia (more transparent and sloppier). Others that the airbrake is worse on the Milia. If you can only vote once in any poll, I'd like to see a way of coming up with questions that would allow you to say one is satisfactory but the other one isn't. How about when you only own one. What if you own both. . . but feel differently about each? It isn't possible to cover each possibility in one poll. Is this really worth a debate? H

As I said in the identical post in the other poll. . .

Considering they are two different valks and some are saying that the Milia is worse than the Max. . . uh, no. H

Stunning! WM Cheng. . . thank you for not only sharing your images with us. . . but for taking the time to be so verbose and helpful. I suspect you spent a lot of time taking images every few steps, processing them, uploading them, and writing these posts. It is greatly appreciated. Best Regards, H P.S. You can always save these pages to your hard drive via IE. Even the images will be saved.

Just put up a Milia Quality Poll and a Max Quality Poll. I hope everyone thinks the questions are representative and fair. H

Hi people. Please vote only if you actually own one!

Hi people. Please vote only if you actually own one!

And that, my friends, is why they cost what they do. As for lowering the price solely for this release. . . I don't think that's reasonable. I mean, it might be honorable, it might be nice, it might even be the right thing to do. . . but to expect a toy company to actually lower the price on an identical toy because of QC problems. . . they're just not going to do it (at least anytime soon). They might as well announce to the world: This toy sucks. It sucks so much we had to knock down its price. Leave it to the retailers to knock down the price if the paint and gunpod issues actually cause the toys to languish on the shelves. I doubt it would happen, but I think that's the only way we're going to see a discount based on QC issues. This thread could go on forever as it has every time a new valk is released. People were saying that crooked skulls and face seams made the original releases not worth the $135. Obviously, some people are going to buy it, notice some fuzzy paint lines and say: "Whatever. . . it's still cool." Others will say: "Those lines are terrible! This toy costs too much for such shoddiness!". . . but keep it anyways. Others will read that and still buy one, only to decide it's not as bad as they thought it would be. Others will buy one anyways and find it is just as bad or worse than the critics had said. And finally. . . some won't buy it at all. It's all subjective. It's all opinion. The only shame is that people need to shell out $185 before they can make an educated decision. In my (humble opinion follows) experience, every time I've read the scathing reviews of newly released 1/48s, I've always picked one up, set it on my shelf and said: "Wow. Looks great to me! I guess those guys are just a lot more demanding." To each their own. Personally, I though JSCarlight's review was pretty positive. . . cuz I'm pretty positive towards these toys in general. I especially appreciated the clarification about the "different color air brake" allegations. But even I, when I start thinking about the monetary concerns he brings up, start to balk. Paying $380 for both these toys, even without any problems seems just insane. So I try not to think about it. And spread out my purchases. H

On only a vaguely related note. I think the "cyclops" eye effect looks great in that image. Remember when that was such a big deal? I've grown to really like it! H

Thanks JsCarlight. Good review! Very even-handed. I'm going to get a re-issue Roy before my Milia. But I have a feeling I'll be satisfied for mine based on your review. Best Regards, H

Yes, it is my understanding that all the TV version FAST Packs (Hikaru VF-1J, Max VF-1J, Milia VF-1J) are the same mold and therefore have the same problem. It is also, of course, my contention that the problem has persisted throughout all three releases because the arm armor pieces were all manufactured at the same time and stockpiled.

I will say this: The trouble they're having with the paint on the Max and Milia will probably limit me to only one of each. I've been trying to get two of each. But I don't want to risk getting a "bad one" more than I already have. H

I'm not sure it's slipping so much as Yamato is now trying to do things they haven't done in the past (where paint is concerned). I think they're having to use too much paint to cover these darker plastics that M&M use. Getting white paint to effectively cover dark blue or red can be a nightmare. Having to apply such thick coats, I believe, is leading to some of the complaints of sloppiness that we are seeing. They didn't have these problems to this degree before the M&M. There was the odd fuzzy line here and there, but nothing like I see on my Max. Even, though, again, I still think it's acceptable (humble opinion). H

Wow. . . that's totally different than what I've experienced. My gunpod snaps in very securely with the DYRL armor. However, I tried to attach the gunpod to my Max armor (while it was unmounted on the valk) and there just appeared to be a total mismatch between the groove and "pin" size and the shape of the gunpod handle and hole size. Given that, I really don't see how the gunpod would mount to the TV armor in any mode. But I could just be dumb.

Yeah, we'll spare you. . . if you could spare us this cliched substitute for something substantive, that would also be much appreciated. I don't even need to defend Yamato to say this: It may not be worth $200 to you with any of these "flaws." Others disagree. Therefore, you should not buy one. Others will. . . because they are less choosey. More power to them. . . and to you. Graham gives his Milia a 9/10. I give my Max an 8/10. I'm happy. Nothing is perfect. Late Edit: Nothing personal here towards dejr. My tone might be a bit more hostile than I intended. I just get a bit riled when someone comes in, states their opinion so flatly. . . then demands that nobody try to address the it. Grrrrrr. H

To clarify: "Economies of scale" dictates that the cost of producing something is lowered as quanity is increased. Meaning, it costs a lot less (per unit) to create 10,000 muffins than it does to creat 10 muffins. But this only holds true if you make those 10,000 muffins in one batch. Meaning, it will cost quite a bit less to make 10,000 muffins all at once rather than making 3,300 muffins, then 3,300 muffins later. . . and finally a later and final batch of 3,400 muffins. Finally, to put it another way: A production line is most efficient when it produces the exact same thing continually. So, applying this to manufacturing a toy. Yamato knew, by the time it was deciding to create the TV FAST Packs, that it would be producing at least three valks that would use the TV FAST Packs. The Hikaru, the Max, and the Milia. It then sat down and figured out how many pieces would be used by all three. . . same piece, same color plastic, etc. One of those "universal parts" is the arm armor. Another good example would be the gunpod. So, it would make sense that Yamato would have produced the h3ll out of these universal parts. . . and therefore had a stockpile that could then be used for all three releases. To me, Yamato deciding to go ahead with existing parts in which they have already invested rather than re-tooling and re-producing them at a loss is less egregious than them intentionally producing more of a part that they knew to be defective. I doubt they would do the latter. But I can see them biting the bullet and doing the former. I would have preferred a gunpod that mounts to the FAST Pack. But, if things played out like I think they did (and anyone involved in manufacturing, I think, would back me up), I think it's understandable. . . though disappointing. H

Well, if the gunpod mounting to the arm armor is a deal-breaker for you, okay. I think that's a bit extreme, but to each their own. Graham has given his Milia a 9/10. So, I don't think he considers the "flaws" to be as critical as some do. The paint flaws have already been looked at pretty thoroughly. Here is a thread with lots of pictures of the Max and lots of varying views about its paint. That link takes you to my pictures of my Max. Please note that there is a link to even higher-res ones at the bottom of the post. I'm saying that the arm armors were most likely created in one large batch and that they are still using that batch to this day. So there has not been an opportunity to fix and re-manufacture the arm armor pieces. Some will say (and have) that they should have trashed their stock of the bad armor and re-manufactured them for the Max and Milia after the problem was pointed out on the Hikaru. Others will say that they owe us fixed parts. Honestly, I'm happy with mine and I'm not terribly upset that the gunpod won't mount to the armor. I consider it so minor that I'm not suprised that Yamato went ahead with the pieces they had. Obviously, people will disagree about that. If the gunpod mounting correctly is a big deal to you, it is terribly egregious that they didn't fix the problem (and throw out the supposed stock of arm armor). If you don't care, you can understand why they wouldn't want to swallow the cost of doing so and possibly delay the release of the valk. I can see both points of view. I just can't muster much outrage or even concern about it. H

Would Yamato have gotten partial credit if they had shown their work? But seriously. I think the reason they haven't fixed the gunpod/arm armor problem between the Hikaru 1J and the rest is the same reason they didn't fix the crooked skull problem between the Hikaru 1A and the Roy 1S. That reason, presumably, is that they had probably mass-produced the tailfins and already painted the skulls on them. That batch of tailfins was then intended to be used (with only an additional red or yellow strip necessary) until they ran out. Only after they ran out (hopefully, if the toy line succeeded) would they create more tail fins. . . and have the opportunity to fix the crooked skull. I have a feeling we're dealing with the same thing here. The arm FP armor we are seeing now were probably all manufactured during the same production run way back before the Hikaru 1J was released. "Economies of Scale" dictate that this is the most cost-effective way for Yamato to have manufactured the parts for their valkyries. But, unfortunately, it leads to QC issues that persist well beyond what most people consider reasonable. In light of all this, if all the above is true, I don't fault Yamato so much because it's more a one-time screw-up rather than a continual "screw the arm armor, we just don't care" attitude. I'm sure some will say that they should have thrown away the thousands of arm armor pieces they had already cast. Personally, I don't think that's reasonable. Like Graham, I think these recent releases rate pretty high. I don't yet have a Milia. But I think my Max kicks ass and the quality between the two has appeared to be similar. I think we've all gotten used to how subjective opinions can be regarding newly released valks. Indeed, we just recently saw the full range of divergent opinion (regarding the Max) in the closest thing we have to a Max 1J review so far. H

Well, okay. . . but now you're making even less sense. . . How can Yamato releasing more 1/48s lower their profits on valkyries that they have already sold to retailers? As long as Yamato is careful to scale their releases according to demand, and release re-paints and designs that are in demand, they will do just fine indefinitely. Judging the profitability of a toy based upon its stock levels one or two years after its intial release is foolhardy at best. Especially when toy store stock levels so far after release have no bearing on Yamato's bottom line. But it seems like you're sorta jumping between points of views here based on convenience rather than intellectual consitency. You were talking about 1/60 vs 1/48s. Now you seem to want to say that you were referring only to the 1/48s. Best Regards, H

Sigh. . . just thought I'd supply some quotes. . . From: just got the 1/48 max tv w/fp. . .

You've got some pretty circular logic going here. The 1/60s are the prior line. . . so I must say again: Yamato does not care about the price of a VF-1 line they are no longer producing. . . It's not "easy enough" to just say "supply vs demand" and consider your argument made. Yamato will always endeavor to manage the supply to meet the demand while maintaining a decent profit margin. So to say that they won't release any further Macross toys because that would decrease the value of toys they've already sold and have no intent to re-releasing is just nonsense. Also, I'd take issue with your basic assumption that "1/60 supply skyrocketed" and "nwo their in barin bins (sic)." It's more accurate to say that demand plummetted due to competition from the 1/48s (which itself is debatable). But Yamato did not take a hit from this since the vast majority of 1/60 releases were already completed when the 1/48 line arrived. The only 1/60s they released after the 1/48 were "specialty" toys such as the two-seaters and the Q-Rau which we are unlikely to see in 1/48 scale. So 1/60 "supply skyrocketed" insofar as second-hand 1/60s became more plentiful. But, again, Yamato doesn't care. They had already made their money on the 1/60. They couldn't care less about how many people put their own collection up for a loss now that they've run the course of their 1/60 line. It's nonsense to say that releasing more Macross toys will somehow affect the value of a toy line that Yamato has already released. The only way this would happen is if Yamato were foolish enough to release a toy line that would directly compete with another one of its lines. . . and continue to produce them simultaneously. Which is not the case. An example would be a new line of 1:32 valkyries. Obviously, those would compete with the 1:48 line and Yamato would be foolish to release them simultaneously if it weren't careful to manage its production levels carefully. But, it could possibly be done if demand for each was guaged carefully. Not quite as simple as just: "supply vs demand." BTW, I wouldn't have even felt compelled to post in this thread if you had managed to post your opinions and conjecture with any semblance of humility. Just remember, it's quite possible that you're talking out of your @ss. H

Uh. . . I don't recall the price dropping for the 1/48 1A Hikaru after the 1A Max was released. Nor the 1S Hikaru after the 1J Hikaru was released. . . and on and on. . . Releasing a different valk has not had any effect on the price of previously released valks. Indeed, even the release of identical valks has not affected the price of their predecessors. . . as the re-release of the 1S Roy and the 1A Hikaru has amply demonstrated. I don't know where you're getting these assertions. But you better start backing them up with some logic or evidence. . . otherwise, they're just assertions. And counter-intuitive ones at that. You seem to be getting your basic rules of economics mixed up. Best Regards, H