Hurin

You're all a bunch of console weenies!!! But a big "right on" to those of you who mentioned computer games such as Civilization and Pirates. Right now, I'm addicted to Rome: Total War. H

That's one helluva leap. H

Don't worry, the assertions about the inferiority of the upcoming re-release are being made in the exact same tone of certainty with which it was asserted there wouldn't be a re-release. Gotta chuckle.

As everyone already knows. . . I never get tired of being right.

I was four when ANH was originally released. And I saw it in the theaters. And I distinctly remember the Red Baron dropping an anvil on Darth Vader's TIE Fighter from a biplane. I kid you not. It was my first (flawed) recollection of seeing a movie in my life. I can still picture it. H

I just can't imagine Samantha being nearly as enjoyable as a character with her foul mouth cleaned up. But I think she gets more foul as the seasons progress. So you may not have missed much yet. H

ewilen. I can stream it to you via my Tivo. Check your PM. As for Sex and that City on TBS. Are you insane!?! It's mangled beyond recognition in order to conform to broadcast standards. H Late Edit: Oh, it's not really a Tivo. It's a custom built Tivo-like DVR.

Bah! That race is over. We'd have to sweep the Dodgers this weekend if we are going to take the West. And that's if we win tonight. Yes. I'm a Giants fan. And you'd better not be a Dodgers fan! Giants had best set their eyes on the Cubs and get that Wild Card spot. Listening to the Cubs blow their save in the top of the 9th as I write this! H P.S. Saw Garden State. Loved it. Yes, Zach Braff is a genious. Don't listen to those who find Donald Trump watchable.

Are you crazy?!? Bill Shatner in Airplane 2 was mesmerizing! No matter how bad the rest of the movie might be, it was worth it for just those scenes. . . H

Scrubs. Smallville. That's about it. Six Feet Under and Sopranos when it's on. I miss Ed. H

Bah. Christmas is barely even Christian anymore! However, it does violate the: I don't want to f'ing spend time and money on someone on the internet who I've never f'ing met before and might never have even heard of. . . or worst yet, might despise.

Most discussion is about opinion and the marshalling of facts to support it. So, really, I'm at a loss here. Nothing in this scene is furry and wretchedly "cute" in the glassy-eyed, fuzzy sense. Nothing falls down. Nothing burps. Nothing is really unbelievable or contrived about it. . . it's funny and yet it works because it fits with the character and doesn't make you think: "Oh puh-leaze. . . that would never happen and it's just there for a contrived laugh." That's how I read it. Really, if you don't see a difference in degree there between that and an ewok hitting itself in the face with its sling, we're just operating in different worlds. As I (and others) have said again and again, a movie can be appealing to kids without making adults wretch. You can write a movie where teenagers and young adults will think it's very cool while kids will scream for toys based on it. I don't see where toys being made available for a movie make it a movie "made for kids." Especially because, as you said, there was no knowledge that merchandising and toy sales were going to be as huge for this movie as it was. The toy sales were a suprise and the line was quickly expanded. But, to say that Lucas wrote Star Wars in hopes of making millions on toy sales is contrary to the facts. Indeed, according to every interview I've ever heard him give (and in this case, I believe him), he expected Star Wars to be a miserable failure. Hard to sell toy for a miserable failure. Yes, that's all I'm saying. And I made the chart to better illustrate my point to those who claim there is no difference in tone and intended audience between the movies. Apparently, it hasn't convinced you. But there's no harm in trying as long as we keep it civil. Okay. Fair enough. I'll quit now. But I hope you don't mind that I addressed those things above since you pretty directly addressed me and asked direct questions before saying this. Best Regards, H

That list is not intended to illustrate "adult dialogue" content of each movie. It merely includes all the attempts at humor in each movie that I could come up with while sitting here in my office and not actually able to watch the movies. That's why I'm open to anyone adding anything to that list that I may have over-looked. But, though the color-coding of each item is totally subjective, If you (or anyone else) can come up with other humorous moments that could be argued to be "red" that took place in ANH or ESB, I'd be happy to hear and/or add them to the list. But I really don't think anything as egregious as those kid-oriented/"red" items in Jedi (and later) exist in the prior two films. If certain types of things "bother me", and I'm attempting to point out that they are a lot more prevalent in one movie versus its predecessors, that seems like exactly what I should do to make my point. It's not like I'm making the argument that Jedi consisted only of those things I listed there. Nor am I asserting by that list that there was no adult dialogue. Well, I'd disagree. The kid bouncing around throughout the movie and saving the day by accident, etc. The Trade Federation leaders and their "are you brain-dead?" dialogue. And so on. . . To me it's just a totally different atmosphere from beginning to end. But, obviously, others' mileage may vary. Well, I'll grant that it's much closer to the original two than was ep1. And almost reaches RotJ's level. But, based on my view of Jedi, that's not saying much. Really, between my little anal-retentive (and very subjective) chart. . . and ewilen's post, I think all of this has been covered. And I'm not sure that there's anywhere left to go here other than just agreeing to disagree. That's cool. I see the increasingly prevalent "red" stuff as overtly symptomatic of the overall changed tone of the films and the franchise. You seem to see them more as abberations with no signifigant meaning or effect on the rest of the films as a whole. I guess that's where we part ways. Best Regards, H

You rock ewilen. How'd you get it back? Personally, I'd go up and edit your post back to the way it was. . . but I'm anal like that. Then Max can reply as he intended, and I can delete my "WTF?" post. . . and then. . . oh well. . . whatever. Late Edit: Seriously though, Max has my permission (as if he needed it) to delete any of my posts related to the accidental deletion if he just wants to clean up this mess by restoring Ewilen's original post and deleting all the confusing junk that came after. H

Oh well. Obviously, I will sorely miss that post since it largely agreed with my view of things while simultaneously coming off as more intellectual and reasoned. And, as I've said before, I consider Ewilen perhaps the strongest intellect among us. Ewilen, any chance you could re-write what you wrote? H

Yes... I like the concepts presented in Star Wars more than anything else. Escapist fluff... I like that... I'll have to start using that. I think that a film can be technically bad, while still being good. Star Wars captured the imagination of a generation and lead to great strides in special effects. I think people largely misinterpret the impact it had, because as far as plot and characters go, GL himself says that he basically ripped the most generic archetypes available in historic narrative. What just happened here? Ewilen's post was much longer (and very good. . . btw). . . and now it's much shorter, is quoting part of itself that no longer exists. . . and he seems to be talking to himself. Yo, Max, did you edit Ewilen's post (accidentally) rather than replying to it? Ah, nevermind. You saw it. Any hope of getting Ewilen's post back? I (for obvious reasons) loved it. H

Waiting for a workstation backup to finish at work before I can do anything productive. So I thought I'd find this dead horse and beat it a bit more. The timeline and/or Lucas Suck-o-meter as measured by pointless stupid kiddie things, prat-falls, and other lame attempts at pedestrian humor. Color-coded for severity! Green: Actually works as humor without necessarily being directed at kids. Often dialogue-driven and believable. Orange: Funny. But seems a bit contrived and/or forced. In the end, not bad. Red: Obviously directed at children. Kids love it. Adults squirm. SW Episode IV: A New Hope R2-D2/C-3P0. Han and Luke acting all polite and/or confused as stormtroopers. Banter between Han and Leia. Banter between Han and Luke regarding Leia. Chewbacca screams at "mouse droid" then laughs. C-3P0: "Listen to them! They're dying R2! Curse my metal body, I wasn't fast enough!" SW Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back Han and Leia banter/flirting: "You didn't see us alone in the south passage. She expressed her true feeling for me." Han: "Laugh it up fuzzball." C-3P0's antics (getting left behind, interrupting Han and Leia, various idiotic behavior) Yoda's harmless idiot routine while he tests Luke's patience. SW Episode VI: The Return of the Jedi Burping toad creature eating mouse creature. Jabba knocking Threepio down. Boba Fett's accidental death at the hands of a befuddled Han. Burping Sarlaac Pit. Wicket (ewok) hitting self in head with sling. Han trying to blow out the torch with his breathe. Ewok/Chewbacca making "Tarzan" scream as they swing onto AT-ST. Ewok taking a speeder bike and diverting the guard at the bunker. Ewok celebration at the end. Ewoks in general. Thus, mangling the final 1/3 of the film. SW Episode I: The Phantom Menace Each and every thing Jar-Jar Binks does. The sole reason he's in the film. One of the main characters is a kid. Who, incidentally, saves the day largely by accident. I can't say much more about ep1 because I've only seen it twice and that was years ago. But, to me, it represents everything that went wrong with Lucas's "vision" in Jedi to the Nth degree. SW Episode II: Attack of the Clones 3P0's antics during/after his head is replaced in the droid manufacturing factory. Might as well have been watching The Three Stooges. Only saw this once. So I'm sure I'm missing more ham-fisted attempts at comedy and/or reaching out to kids. Now, of course, consider that he retroactively went back and put a lot more of the "red"-type stuff from the latter three movies into the first two movies that lacked them. . . and you just might start to figure out why some people who don't like the latter three movies very much are a bit bitter about things. For the life of me, I can't understand how someone can look at all of the Star Wars movies and declare that they are equally catering to a child's sensibilities. Hell, some of the TV and trailer spots even marketed ANH as a romance! I almost included the Indiana Jones movies in this list. But tying them into this debate requires more verbage and the arugment is less easily made via a chart. Suffice it to say that Indiana Jones goes from being a dark anti-hero with intelligent friends to being a total Daddy's boy whose idiotic friends merely surround him for moronic comic relief. And, note that these changes take place in the Indiana Jones series at the same time as the Star Wars series (After The Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark). Oh, did I mention that he had a daughter at about this time? Yes, it was incredibly anal of me to create this list. But, to be honest, I'm a bit tired of the dismissive: "They're all the same. . . They're all for kids. . .You're perceptions of them are tainted by nostalgia" line of argument that merely asserts this without backing it up. If that were true, I'd have grown up and become disappointed with all the Star Wars films, not just Jedi. H

Hehe. Otherwise, I might get banned. Seriously though. To address what you said: It could be argued that Lucas is the one "tearing down an icon". . . As for criticizm: I'll keep that in mind the next time I see one of your charming posts referring to M7. H

Yet another well-thought-out post filled with reason, examples, and infallible logic. Thanks man. What would we do without you? Whither away and die I suppose. H

Again.... Okay fine. BS. Yet nobody has ever pointed out to me an analogous scenes to those in Jedi such as these: * The burping toad creature that eats the little mouse thingy. * Boba Fett's death: "Boba Fett? Boba Fett? Where?!?. . ." * The Sarlacc pit burping as it eats people. * Ewoks hitting themselves in the head with slings. * Hell, ewoks in general. (and if you don't see any difference in subtlety between ewoks and droids, I can't help you.) * Chewbacca (or one of his ewok hangers on) doing the f'ing "Tarzan" call as he swings onto the AT-ST. That list took about one minute and came from the top of my head. Can you point to any truly analogous moment/scene in Empire or ANH that has anything like that? Y'all just simply assert: "They were always kid-like". . . and leave it at that. Awfully dismissive. There is a reason most people who still like Star Wars still consider Jedi to be the weakest one. There's a reason that it is the favorite one when we are kids, but so many turn on it when they grow older. The other two don't alienate adults as much as the kid-fest that is Jedi. H P.S. My original post has "There is nothing like that in Empire or Jedi as originally released." Obviously, I meant to say: "Empire and ANH." Sorry if that was confusing and/or was the real reason you said "BS". . . I of course think both versions of Jedi sucked and were entirely different in tone to its predecessors.

Yes, but then kids can't laugh out loud at how funny it is that Han got him accidentally while he was blind ("Boba Fett? Where?") . . . and they can't giggle and look up at their dads and point it out to them. . . while dad cringes. There is nothing like that in Empire or Jedi as originally released. Jedi is chock-filled with BS like that. . . and creamy nugat. H

You need some help with your comparisons. Again, the difference is that (as even you point out), the originals are still available. The only way Galactica would be a similar situation is if they had indeed said "we will never release the original series. From now on, the new mini-series is Battlestar Galactica. Deal with it." So, again, this really doesn't make your point very well. And, truthfully, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a circumstance similar to what Lucas has done with SW. It's really without precedent. Even Spielberg had the decency to release the original version of E.T. along with the ridiculously PC-ified one. But really, wasn't your whole point to try to point out hypocrisy among Macross fans by exploring our attitudes towards DYRL? By shifting to Galactica, you're now setting your sites awfully low, aren't you? H

thank god i'm not the only person who noticed this. its a definite greenish-white hue on the falcon Noticed it too. . . then later in that same training scene on the falcon, it's nearly (if not completely) color-less. My geeky theory to explain it away: It's running in "training mode". . . so Luke won't kill himself with it accidentally. When in training mode, it's running at a different "frequency" and therefore has a different color. Hehe. . . H

I believe it has been mentioned that the scream was taken out for the DVDs. I was disappointed to see that they retained the changed line when Artoo is spit out by the swamp monster though. Original line: "You're lucky you don't taste very good." New line: "You were lucky to get out of there!" H

Call of Duty (CoD). Note the tag-line for the United Offensive expansion: "The best of Call of Duty and Battlefield 1942 combined." Couldn't have said it better myself! I play as "[LOC]Hurin" H